Saints 1-2 Millwall - Match Thread

[SW11_Saint]

I can ‘handle’ defeats like the one to Hull - at least they were better team by some margin.

But defeats like today really boil my piss… it was dismal and it was self-inflicted. A pedestrian, workmanlike Millwall team and they made it look easy second half, like a training exercise - and we totally played into their hands. 

The team selection & subs beg questions too. Smallbone just can’t play holding midfielder. Should have played Charles - although he’s no Downes, at least it’s his natural position. I have no idea what he was even doing with Jack Stephens today. Also should have kept Che on who was working hard and providing a focal point for attacks. Arma should have replaced Brooks on the right who was ineffective. After Che went off we were even more toothless up front. Sulemana is simply a headless chicken who doesn’t fit the system. 

Frustrating. Frustrating. Frustrating. 

We’ve thrown away any realistic hope of automatic promotion with these two defeats. 

[davefizzy14]

12 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

I can ‘handle’ defeats like the one to Hull - at least they were better team by some margin.

But defeats like today really boil my piss… it was dismal and it was self-inflicted. A pedestrian, workmanlike Millwall team and they made it look easy second half, like a training exercise - and we totally played into their hands. 

The team selection & subs beg questions too. Smallbone just can’t play holding midfielder. Should have played Charles - although he’s no Downes, at least it’s his natural position. I have no idea what he was even doing with Jack Stephens today. Also should have kept Che on who was working hard and providing a focal point for attacks. Arma should have replaced Brooks on the right who was ineffective. After Che went off we were even more toothless up front. Sulemana is simply a headless chicken who doesn’t fit the system. 

Frustrating. Frustrating. Frustrating. 

We’ve thrown away any realistic hope of automatic promotion with these two defeats. 

I thought Jack played really well today. Was the one who was driving the team forward. Didn't understand why he was brought off. Same as Aribo and Adams. 

[Leighsterrr]

3 hours ago, sfc4prem said:

What 'noise' is Taylor referring to in his post-match interview?

"Some of the noise that's going on has been ridiculous and you've just got to block it out"

 

2 hours ago, Badger said:

Anyone offer any explanation on this, or where it has come from ?

“noise”, nothing to do with dissatisfaction over two piss poor results and performances you’d hope.  

It was a continuous humming / droning noise coming from the away fans clearly designed to piss us off...it f*ckin worked. It even drowned out the Saints fans when we started up

 

If the game wasn't bad enough, that was the cherry on the top!

[saintant]

51 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

That's it in a nutshell really, whilst Downes is a huge miss, we've made it worse because we've tried to tweak everyone else to accommodate for it.

We were without Downes for a few games over Christmas if I remember right, we just stuck Charles in there and carried on the same way. Why has his latest absence triggered the coaches to redesigning the entire system? Today was a mess, no matter what Martin says about it. There was no structure and no continuity because our team has been tweaked and pissed around with to accommodate the loss of 1 player.

Exactly and, in doing so, a well oiled machine has become a clapped out jalopy.

[Dr Who?]

By the time we play Leeds they will be champions. They are really looking unstoppable. Looks like Ipswich have had their ‘bad patch’ and Leicester a wobbling a little and will wobble more with Leeds picking up wins every week and the last 10 minutes yesterday. I honestly think Leeds are way ahead of everyone in the championship now, and even they had a wobble a while back. 

Now us, we’ll be are having a wobble for sure and again it is because we tried to fix something that was not broke before the end of the transfer window in January. We did not need the loan players and should have carried on with the squad we had, a squad where we were just about keeping everyone happy, which is a huge part of team spirit, all it takes is a slight change in dynamics or personal and that can rock the boat. Also this showed today as RM seemed to not know who to bring on and the best way to play, like in September. 

Also I think I would have preferred to lose to Watford in the FA Cup as the trip to Anfield may be something to do with the drop in form intensity, again no coincidence in this fixture (shop window at the big boys) and the drop in form). Don’t get me wrong it is nice to progress in a cup competition, and if we won it would be amazing, no matter how unlikely this seems at this moment in time. 

Also I will say this again, we did not need a striker in January, we have 2 strikers that are proven at this level, who’s movement off the ball is second to none at this level. Our problem for the majority of this season is being too laboured on the ball and not having a JWP or Tella to spot these runs and unlock the defence. Instead we go sideways or backwards to keep the ball. We just need to shift from this 70-80% possession to a bit lower, but be slightly more direct and purposeful with the ball, even if the majority of the time if might not come off, it is better than keeping the ball for longer, wasting time and still not having an end product. Play football yes, but more guts in the final 3rd, or more belief in theirselves and their ability. 

it is looking like the playoffs, but by the end of May we might be saying, ‘What a way to go up’, as it will be the one of the best to win the playoff final at Wembley. But we might need to hit a bit of form before we go into them. 

I have said this all along, the championship is far more interesting than the stale premier league, but there is always the big part as a football fan of wanting your team to play at the highest level over ‘more interesting’. 
 

 

[S-Clarke]

3 hours ago, sfc4prem said:

What 'noise' is Taylor referring to in his post-match interview?

"Some of the noise that's going on has been ridiculous and you've just got to block it out"

I've just listened to his post match interview, I assume he's referring to social media and what some of the fans are chatting.

''Some of the noise is like we're in a relegation battle'' - so he's obviously noticed some criticism on social media from the fan base.

Some of the criticism has been well over the top, but that's to be expected from modern football fans. In the bigger context which I think we need to remember - we're having a good season and performing at a level which will get you auto promotion 9/10 - sadly this season it won't, we need to be perfect every week. Given that the target was auto promotion (well, winners) at the start of the season, I think fans are naturally going to be disappointed to see that slip away into the distance.

But taking it into isolated games, I think as fans we have every right to be pissed off at displays like today. It was tepid and wimpy, nowhere near what we've been known as. To be fair to Martin he says as much in his interview, not happy enough with the output and movement of the players in the final third - he's right, we were static and slow as shit. 

Some fans do go OTT though, it's just the way with social media though. Allows nutjobs to have their platform to spout shit, of which some have been waiting months and months to have a pop.

[S-Clarke]

6 minutes ago, Dr Who? said:

 

I have said this all along, the championship is far more interesting than the stale premier league, but there is always the big part as a football fan of wanting your team to play at the highest level over ‘more interesting’. 
 

 

It's only interesting or 'fun' and 'exciting if you're doing well. Stoke's 7 years at this level since relegation have been horrific, it's a cesspit of a league if you turn shit. (As we know all too well!). It can happen easily as well, failure to go up in season 1 or 2 and it will become pretty miserable down here.

Edited February 24 by S-Clarke

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, James G said:

It's the absence of Downes that has changed the dynamic, pure and simple. It's about keeping the team as it was, and finding a suitable replacement. Russ has tinkered with all the other positions and we're back to square one again. It needs to be someone who intercepts and recycles, Smallbone is not that person neither is Rothwell who came with poor interception stats. 

Also, too much faffing in the box today, play in behind and shoot. Pinball the ball and pursue outcomes. Get the goal, then spaces appear. 

Lastly, there needs to be more work on set pieces, corners etc. 

Leeds showed us last night how having a shot can lead to a deflection and even a goal. No shot, no deflection.

[SW11_Saint]

13 minutes ago, davefizzy14 said:

I thought Jack played really well today. Was the one who was driving the team forward. Didn't understand why he was brought off. Same as Aribo and Adams. 

I thought he was okay but not great, but playing in at least three different positions didn’t particularly help him or our cohesion. 
 

Assume Bree isn’t quite fit to start yet? Would rather have had him in at LB, and KWP at RB. 

[Harry_SFC]

20 minutes ago, davefizzy14 said:

I thought Jack played really well today. Was the one who was driving the team forward. Didn't understand why he was brought off. Same as Aribo and Adams. 

Don't agree about Stephens but do about Aribo and Adams. Neither were particularly amazing but we definitely got worse when they went off. 

[rallyboy]

Sideways, backwards, stupid goal, more sideways, yellow card challenge, another yellow card challenge from the same player, more sideways, nice equaliser, floodgates don't open, stupid penalty, timewasting, sideways, backwards, no threat, timewasting, chance missed, much timewasting, three seconds added, on but we could have played all night, fucking joke, everyone on the pitch terrible, the end.

[Oldandtired]

21 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

It's only interesting or 'fun' and 'exciting if you're doing well. Stoke's 7 years at this level since relegation have been horrific, it's a cesspit of a league if you turn shit. (As we know all too well!). It can happen easily as well, failure to go up in season 1 or 2 and it will become pretty miserable down here.

This.

[Dr Who?]

28 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

It's only interesting or 'fun' and 'exciting if you're doing well. Stoke's 7 years at this level since relegation have been horrific, it's a cesspit of a league if you turn shit. (As we know all too well!). It can happen easily as well, failure to go up in season 1 or 2 and it will become pretty miserable down here.

Very true and I am aware of this. Same as any league, it is more interesting when you are winning most weeks. But as a competition I think it is much better, even if the quality is not. I still think we have an excellent chance of going up, but I think we can get a second crack of the whip next season before we turn into one of a number of ex premier league teams that have lost their way. But on the flip side we have come back from league 1 on minus 10 points and that was great fun, but flip that again going the other way was not, but we were neglected as a club. We are in a much better place IMO. 

[Block41 Saint]

5 hours ago, sfc4prem said:

What 'noise' is Taylor referring to in his post-match interview?

"Some of the noise that's going on has been ridiculous and you've just got to block it out"

Talking like a player who knows he won't be here when we fail to go up. Top transfer windows though. 

[Toussaint]

9 minutes ago, Block41 Saint said:

Talking like a player who knows he won't be here when we fail to go up. Top transfer windows though. 

That is a risk with the loan players, they were enjoying the ride when things are going well, showcasing themselves for lucrative prem contracts, but going into their shells on the pitch and phoning their agents when they are not. 

[Lighthouse]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

It's only interesting or 'fun' and 'exciting if you're doing well. Stoke's 7 years at this level since relegation have been horrific, it's a cesspit of a league if you turn shit. (As we know all too well!). It can happen easily as well, failure to go up in season 1 or 2 and it will become pretty miserable down here.

You don’t even have to be sh*t, just look at all the negativity on here now when we’re 4th in the league. Stoke, Blackburn, Brum…. We could easily be next on that list.

[LoyalSaintSO50]

Bazunu cost us the game with the first goal. 9 times out of ten we’d win that if no one makes a mistake early doors… out comes superman punching thin air.  Amazed he went the wrong way on the penalty. Get rid 

[Lighthouse]

2 minutes ago, LoyalSaintSO50 said:

Bazunu cost us the game with the first goal. 9 times out of ten we’d win that if no one makes a mistake early doors… out comes superman punching thin air.  Amazed he went the wrong way on the penalty. Get rid 

So 1-0 down after 5 minutes, at home to a team who’ve just lost 6 out of 7, and that’s it; game over, pack up and go home?

[Whitey Grandad]

4 minutes ago, LoyalSaintSO50 said:

Bazunu cost us the game with the first goal. 9 times out of ten we’d win that if no one makes a mistake early doors… out comes superman punching thin air.  Amazed he went the wrong way on the penalty. Get rid 

It was a terrible mistake but to say that it cost us the game is going too far. We only scored one goal.

[LoyalSaintSO50]

1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

So 1-0 down after 5 minutes, at home to a team who’ve just lost 6 out of 7, and that’s it; game over, pack up and go home?

I reckon that dozy clown after 5 minutes playing against 3000 Millwall with a new manager didn’t help proceedings… you? 

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, LoyalSaintSO50 said:

I reckon that dozy clown after 5 minutes playing against 3000 Millwall with a new manager didn’t help proceedings… you? 

No one is saying it did help, but pack up and go home?

We all moan about the players losing their heads - but christ, some of our fans. Wouldn't want some of our fans on the front line when the going gets tough. This isn't a personal dig at you by the way, just a search through the cesspit that is twitter this evening has brought a whole new meaning to fickle bad losers.

[woodsaint1]

What a wild 11 days or so. From having the opportunity to go 4 points clear of Leeds when we played Bristol City, to now being 5 points adrift 🤮.

The Bristol City and Hull City defeats I can live with. Both can be good teams, which they showed, and we weren't at it, which happens. Today's result is an absolute stinker however. Home to a team who had lost 6 of their last 7, who we knew were going to very direct and very physical. Yet we gifted them the win. Whats more baffling, is that in the middle of all the above we had a very assured and dominating performance away to a good WBA side.

The defence has fallen away, think its 10 conceded in our last 5 and Liverpool's 1st/2nd mix team will certainly add to that during the week. Seem to recall that Calderwood got alot of praise on here as his arrival coincided with our run of clean sheets. Well he needs to fix it and fast, because we're still scoring goals and creating chances at the other end (although didnt take some today). Having Downes back will also help.

For any remaining hope of getting top two, we'll likely need to win at least 11 of our last 12 games. Not impossible, but just cant see it the way we're playing at the moment. We'll need to hope we can do it over three games in the playoffs.

[6ft8saint]

2 hours ago, davefizzy14 said:

Really disappointing today. Second half there was little urgency and we created very little asides from the Rothwell shot and Arma's header. Really need Downes back as he's pivotal in our team. I agree with some of the posts above, that ref today was a disgrace, weak as anything. Allowed them to be overly physical with challenges on Fraser and Edozie, which went unpunished. Really hope Fraser is ok after he had to come off in 1st half. And he allowed them to constantly waste time. 

I wonder if it's because he sent Phillips off in West ham game the week before and doesn't want to be seen as red card happy 

[macca155]

8 hours ago, saintant said:

Good job we are 15 points clear of 7th.

Plus we are safe from relegation🥺

[macca155]

3 hours ago, SW11_Saint said:

I thought (Jack) was okay but not great, but playing in at least three different positions didn’t particularly help him or our cohesion. 
 

He at least took no nonsense from Millwall and drove forward. Certainly not one to blame.

However as you say he was being asked to do too much in too many different positions.

Let him play deep midfield or RB. Needed Charles on the field as well.

Lots of justified despair today, but we all knew this was coming. The midfield and striker gaps are starting to bite.

I'd add too many loan players, and one dimensional football as a factor.

On their own each has a small impact but collectively it leaves Saints as a good play off side. No more than that.

Positives are that Martin has 12 games to manage the team ready for the play offs. There is no pressure now really. Other teams will be knackered  as they'll be fighting to the last game.

Not discounting autos, a lot can happen, but this team just doesn't seem to have the edge required.

[HKsaint]

We will lose to lpswich in playoff

[LGTL]

9 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

It's only interesting or 'fun' and 'exciting if you're doing well. Stoke's 7 years at this level since relegation have been horrific, it's a cesspit of a league if you turn shit. (As we know all too well!). It can happen easily as well, failure to go up in season 1 or 2 and it will become pretty miserable down here.

Imagine playing this style of football with an infinitely weaker squad. It’s going to be hell next season when we fuck up the playoffs. We’ll basically just be Martin‘s Swansea.

[AlexLaw76]

Why Martin wanted Stephens to play like Franz Beckenbauer, I have no idea

Edited February 25 by AlexLaw76

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, LGTL said:

Imagine playing this style of football with an infinitely weaker squad. It’s going to be hell next season when we fuck up the playoffs. We’ll basically just be Martin‘s Swansea.

Said it before, we will complete our transition into Swansea by the end of the next January window. If Martin is lucky enough to keep his job (which I hope he does not)

#SouthCoastSwansea

[Maury Dyer]

So, here we go again. Sack the manager, no guts in the team. Just like the last five ducking years. And we get to play Skates next season as we!!.....

[Convict Colony]

Optimism abounds this morning.

Hopefully Martin has learnt his lesson about midfield needing a DM after his 2nd failure within a week.

Please bring Bree on for the next game not just for the LB spot but also because he can actually deliver the ball into a dangerous area as our corners/free kicks have been utter utter shit for a while with armstrong and brooks.

[hypochondriac]

Bazunu 

Kwp THB bednarek Bree 

Downes/Charles smallbone 

Brooks Stuart Armstrong 

Adams 

That's the team for me out of the ones who are fit. You could maybe make a case for Adam Armstrong and Edozie too. We should never be playing a game without one of Charles or Downes though. 

[woksaintly]

Yesterday Adams was trying to make diagonal runs that we were too slow to spot or under instructions to not take that risk. Yesterday was crying out for another dimension to our game. For instance play sullemana down the middle rtaher than pass predictably to his feet when their defence has regrouped. Martin has stated that it was not tactics that cost us the game but two awful goals. The reality is we created very few chances and were entirely predictable. In comparison to the Leicester Leeds game, both sides played at pace and Winks was playing super balls inside the full backs. Yet we have Smallbone !! Enough said

[Toussaint]

Regarding the general criticism of Bazunu, last season it was probably justified, but even then that wasn’t really on him, he was just too young and inexperienced to be put in that situation.
This season he’s pulled off some fantastic saves to keep us in games. Yesterday, he made an error, but it should not have proved catastrophic in the way it did, and that is also not on him. 

Edited February 25 by Toussaint
Word spaghetti auto correct

[Toussaint]

4 hours ago, HKsaint said:

We will lose to lpswich in playoff

What I’ve observed with Ipswich is that they will not roll over, even when the odds are not looking favourable, a very gutsy team.

[beatlesaint]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Why Martin wanted Stephens to play like Franz Beckenbauer, I have no idea

those two players will NEVER belong in the same sentence.

[beatlesaint]

1 hour ago, Convict Colony said:

Optimism abounds this morning.

Hopefully Martin has learnt his lesson about midfield needing a DM after his 2nd failure within a week.

Please bring Bree on for the next game not just for the LB spot but also because he can actually deliver the ball into a dangerous area as our corners/free kicks have been utter utter shit for a while with armstrong and brooks.

Unfortunately its not just the second failure in a week, its a blind spot he continually finds everytime Downes is out injured/ill. 

Bree should be a shoe in next week against Birmingham as should putting back together the team and system that went on that run.

All these positional chganges and playig around with the formation have proven to be a bloody disaster

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Why Martin wanted Stephens to play like Franz Beckenbauer, I have no idea

Because he is the Cornish Maldini 

[gio1saints]

11 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

.

Some fans do go OTT though, it's just the way with social media though. Allows nutjobs to have their platform to spout shit, of which some have been waiting months and months to have a pop.

That’s certainly true here on this forum. There’s going to be more coming out with the nasty stuff for sure.

The response of people around me yesterday was out of control mad. The mood just changed 180 degrees very rapidly. There was absolutely no middle ground whatsoever and it felt, to me anyways, that with each crazy shouted outburst the others around me in Northam were becoming more emboldened to emit even more nut job stuff. 

The insults towards Will Smallbone in particular were not just ridiculous but shameful. The trigger hair groans and abusive outbursts for every mistake or each additional pass he made instead of route one just left me with earache and hair spittle from the frothers behind me. 
 

People have paid and are entitled to opinions. Entitled to shout out displeasure. But if this carries on it will make matches harder to win not easier.
 

Saints Fans say they are loyal but actually many are as fickle as fuck- minute it goes wrong pitchforks come out. Otherwise how do you justify the disgusting comments thrown at the players yesterday?
Being “ loyal” is not synonym for being allowed to have an abusive relationship with a loved one- which is essentially what support for saints currently is for some at SMS . Minute loved one cooks a nice meal it’s all play nice. Burns the steak - abuse. Watching and having to endure the outbursts made me wonder what kind of households these people go home to- and what those households have to endure domestically. Quite frightening really. 
 

 

[WALK DMC]

While there is understandably a lot of focus on the loss of Downes yesterday, we lost the match because we couldn't create enough decent chances against a poor Millwall team.  People have criticised Sulemana, but I thought he made some good runs and created our only big 2nd half chance to equalise (Adama header).   I was more disappointed with Brookes and Edozie who had most of the game to make a difference. 

Edozie in particular is a frustrating player, he can beat his full back, but then makes a feeble cross which invariably is cleared by the first defender. Undoubtedly he has talent and is still young enough to develop into a very decent footballer, but at the moment he flatters to deceive. I've had a feeling for a while that even when his performances are ok, as a team we don't play as well. He likes the ball to feet so doesn't make as the same type of runs that Frazer does or have the same direct style which creates space for others. I don't think it is entirely coincidental that he started (or came on early) for the 3 recent defeats, but didn't for the WBA game. 

I certainly hope that Frazer isn't out injured for long. 

[sfc4prem]

2 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Said it before, we will complete our transition into Swansea by the end of the next January window. If Martin is lucky enough to keep his job (which I hope he does not)

#SouthCoastSwansea

Swansea is on the South Coast.

[saintant]

To lose 2 home games on the trot at this stage of the season when in a race for an automatic promotion spot is a pretty poor show from RM and the players. All the hard work during the unbeaten run has been tossed away. It's too easy to blame it on the loss of Downes. We should have a team selection and method of playing in place to cope with the loss of any player. As we've seen we don't have which is a very big flaw for a team going all out for promotion. Unprofessional doesn't even begin to cover it.

[RedWillie]

16 minutes ago, WALK DMC said:

While there is understandably a lot of focus on the loss of Downes yesterday, we lost the match because we couldn't create enough decent chances against a poor Millwall team.  People have criticised Sulemana, but I thought he made some good runs and created our only big 2nd half chance to equalise (Adama header).   I was more disappointed with Brookes and Edozie who had most of the game to make a difference. 

Edozie in particular is a frustrating player, he can beat his full back, but then makes a feeble cross which invariably is cleared by the first defender. Undoubtedly he has talent and is still young enough to develop into a very decent footballer, but at the moment he flatters to deceive. I've had a feeling for a while that even when his performances are ok, as a team we don't play as well. He likes the ball to feet so doesn't make as the same type of runs that Frazer does or have the same direct style which creates space for others. I don't think it is entirely coincidental that he started (or came on early) for the 3 recent defeats, but didn't for the WBA game. 

I certainly hope that Frazer isn't out injured for long. 

Agree entirely, Edozie just isn't physically strong enough at the moment. Great initial footwork but invariably gets pushed  and bullied off the ball way to easily. 

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Why Martin wanted Stephens to play like Franz Beckenbauer, I have no idea

Kaiser Stephens ?

Nah

[Lord Duckhunter]

To talk about “noise” , I presume he means criticism from supporters, is fucking noddy when you’re in our position. We’re fucking 4th in the Championship and a provincial club. Fuck me, what’s the “noise” a few hurty tweets, a few moans and groans. It’s hardly Barca or Manchester Utd, stop talking pony man and take some responsibility for a shite performance. I actually think the supporters have been pretty tolerant of the boring fucking turgid shite Lego ball we’ve had to watch at times this season.

 

 

[markr27]

In block 12/13 there was strong verbals being shouted between two sets of saints fans. as pair 1 were leaving early.

After they returned to the row to confront pair 2, and then walking down the stairs again, the concluding comment was "we'll see you outside you ducking retard."

 

I wonder how that ended up.

[saintant]

10 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

To talk about “noise” , I presume he means criticism from supporters, is fucking noddy when you’re in our position. We’re fucking 4th in the Championship and a provincial club. Fuck me, what’s the “noise” a few hurty tweets, a few moans and groans. It’s hardly Barca or Manchester Utd, stop talking pony man and take some responsibility for a shite performance. I actually think the supporters have been pretty tolerant of the boring fucking turgid shite Lego ball we’ve had to watch at times this season.

 

 

Players or managers who read fans forums are daft. They must know that what they'll read is dependent on the most recent results and that goes for any club in the country. If they are offended or disappointed by forum content the answer is simple - don't read them.

[Fabrice29]

29 minutes ago, saintant said:

 We should have a team selection and method of playing in place to cope with the loss of any player. As we've seen we don't have which is a very big flaw for a team going all out for promotion. Unprofessional doesn't even begin to cover it.

 

15 hours ago, saintant said:

He could always change the tactics. Maybe come up with a surprise or two rather than being predictable.

Stay consistent but come up with a surprise or two.

[CB Fry]

15 hours ago, Roger said:

Damn sight better player than rothwell. 

If Alcaraz had done what Rothwell had done vs Huddersfield you wouldn't hear the end of it on here.

[AlexLaw76]