Saints 1-2 Hull - Match Thread

[JRM]

  On 20/02/2024 at 21:56, saintant said:

The starting line up didn't seem wrong it was wrong as many predicted before kick-off. RM should have realised within the first 20 minutes and made 3 subs.

Expand  

Yep, for me I took one look at that midfield and put a few quid on Hull, we set up perfectly for them to take advantage. They were everything that Martin wants us to be, moved the ball with ease around our pedestrians. 

Very poor evening 

[Give it to Ron]

  On 20/02/2024 at 22:27, AlexLaw76 said:

Leeds fans said we are flat track bullied. They are rihht

Expand  

What all of them? Will we be the new Stoke next year ?

Did Leeds fans say that when we beat them 3-1??

Edited 20 February, 2024 by Give it to Ron

[Lee On Solent Saint]

  On 20/02/2024 at 22:35, notnowcato said:

As poor as we were in the first half we shot ourselves in the foot by missing a glorious chance in the 11th minute and gifting them their 2nd goal. 
Suspect Rothwell may be on the bench for a while, shows glimpses of quality but looks horribly off the pace and his touch still looks rusty. 
I can understand rotating players whilst we’re playing twice a week but that wouldn’t apply to Manning returning for Stephens. 
Poor first half, better second half, fair but disappointing result. 

Expand  

There was absolutely no need to change that starting eleven from Friday. That was a professional display away from home against decent opposition. I don't particularly rate Stephens but he didn't do too much wrong on Friday. Same with Charles, would have been a much better bet than the absolutely woeful Rothwell.

[CSA96]

 

[obelisk]

Well at least we'll have a decent Championship centre forward next season. So they say anyway.

[S-Clarke]

  On 20/02/2024 at 22:44, CSA96 said:

 

Expand  

I didn't think we were very good in the second half, we improved - it would have been hard not to, but it still wasn't very good. Left it too late to have any real go at them.

[Charlie Wayman]

This was an absolutely abysmal performance and fans have every right to be annoyed and exasperated. It looks like curtains for the automatic spots and even if we make the play-offs there are at least two better teams than us with an eye on Wembley. Once again we were out-thought and out-fought and lacked the vision to change things around to our advantage. 

Another night to forget, that's two from three. We don't have the luxury of a game in hand anymore either. The going is getting tough…...

[Give it to Ron]

Well when you have 4 players stood on half way line doing nothing not offering anything no wonder they score with no outlet!

why was Stu playing alongside Mara first half giving us massive holes in midfield- manager got side and tactics wrong first half watch their second goal both Armstrongs Mara and Edozie just stood still

Edited 20 February, 2024 by Give it to Ron

[Tanlee]

In the main shit and Hull superior , wrong staring line up, the starting front 3 in 1st half not good enough, they run around a bit and that's about it . Thought Brooks looked a cut above and hopefully will be a real class act between now and end of season. 

[StrangelyBrown]

  On 20/02/2024 at 19:25, Dark Munster said:

Brave, or foolish? I'm leaning toward the latter. We'll see.

Expand  

Foolish it was ...

Martin has learned important lessons along the way. Hopefully he learns the lessons from tonight - for once and for all Manning simply isn't good enough, Rothwell shouldn't start and we need to have some defensive cover in midfield.

[Leighsterrr]

Outplayed and not a chance of repeating the Huddersfield defeat. They were all over us playing out from the back and I'm surprised they didn't score more

 

Let's see what Saturday has in store but it can't be that dire again...surely... 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

  On 20/02/2024 at 22:44, CSA96 said:

 

Expand  

No Russell. Playing very good in the second half would mean you would be knocking at them for the 45 minutes. Not just the 10 or so minutes before the final whistle

[Jack]

I get why we want to play out from the back. But when we draw the press, don’t find a pass through or round it, then play out to someone tightly marked and give it away, it’s completely fucking pointless.

 

[Jack]

  On 20/02/2024 at 22:50, StrangelyBrown said:

Foolish it was ...

Martin has learned important lessons along the way. Hopefully he learns the lessons from tonight - for once and for all Manning simply isn't good enough, Rothwell shouldn't start and we need to have some defensive cover in midfield.

Expand  

He said he’d learned lessons from the Huddersfield and Bristol City games, but clearly hasn’t 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

  On 20/02/2024 at 22:53, Jack said:

He said he’d learned lessons from the Huddersfield and Bristol City games, but clearly hasn’t 

Expand  

And Sunderland 

[Charlie Wayman]

  On 20/02/2024 at 22:50, StrangelyBrown said:

Foolish it was ...

Martin has learned important lessons along the way. Hopefully he learns the lessons from tonight - for once and for all Manning simply isn't good enough, Rothwell shouldn't start and we need to have some defensive cover in midfield.

Expand  

Manning may be not very good technically but at least tonight he fought tooth and nail to win every challenge and never gave up until the final whistle. A few others could take a lesson or two from him. He was far from being our worst player tonight.

I agree with you about Rothwell, he doesn't suit our playing style at all. Send him back to Bournemouth.

Edited 20 February, 2024 by Charlie Wayman

[HarvSFC]

Too many passengers in the team tonight, can't get away with it at this level. Manning, Rothwell, Smallbone, S. Armstrong and Mara were all bad. It's key for central midfielders these days to be able to play on the turn, Smallbone can't do that. Whenever Bazunu gave him the ball, Bazunu then received it back under pressure because Smallbone can only pass the way he's facing, leaving Bazunu to hoof it to a Hull shirt every time. Destroyed our game plan, surprised we had as much as 58% possession and Smallbone isn't good enough defensively to make up for his predictability on the ball. Even at the end he sent in a few weird balls to no one when we were putting on the pressure.

Mara was a huge let down too. I talked him up the other week, his good cameos have fooled me in the past, but I thought where he made a good appearance from the start against Watford in the cup that he might be coming good. Unfortunately, not. Didn't do the basics tonight and when you can't do the basics at least pressure the opposition when they're on the ball and move when your team is in possession to give an option to. He did neither tonight. A. Armstrong laid off a good ball near the end of the first half and Mara was running away from the ball leaving the Hull defence and goalkeeper to deal with it easily. He's too unreliable.

Martin said the second half was an improvement, but we couldn't have been any worse than the first half. I didn't think we were particularly good in the second half either, until the last five minutes when we scored. Their keeper had very little to do tonight.

No excuses for not playing your best eleven in this modern era. 2011-12, Lambert, Fonte and Lallana (now a sicknote) all managed 40+ starts with three subs and a five man bench. Cork and Hooiveld just missed out with 39 starts. The luxury of having five subs and a nine man bench to choose from is being wasted, squad rotation isn't as necessary as it was 12 years ago with a lot of players only playing for 60 minutes a match these days.

 

[spyinthesky]

Put firmly in our place by a very good Hull side who could have won by a wider margin.

Their Manager had his tactics spot on and were able to play out from the back far more comfortably than we were able to do.

Apart from KWP, Bednerak and Taylor - Bellis with a decent cameo by Aribo and to a lesser extent Fraser and Brooks, the likes of Rothwell (who missed a very good chance and lost the ball for the second goal), Mara, Smallbone the two Armstrongs, Manning etc were poor.

We should be OK for the Play Offs but playing Hull and Ipswich there is likely to be challenging if we play like we did tonight.

[Maggie May]

RM has to take a lot of credit for our good season so far but I can’t get my head around why he thought that was a good selection tonight. We all knew it would be catastrophic. I knew we wouldn’t win but seeing that starting XI solidified sticking a few quid on a Hull win and both sides to score. Easy money.

I just hope our form doesn’t take an even bigger nosedive from here. 

[6ft8saint]

Hang on a second I voiced these same concerns 2 matches ago and was poo pooed by the majority of you saying we can't have negative views as this team have been unbeaten in 25. And guess what we now can't claim yo be unbeaten in 1. You would have thought birthday boy bazunu would have stepped up but tonight he played calamitous goal keeping and terrible distribution. All in all it felt like alot of the team didn't want straight promotion. Opportunity missed let's move on an make the next game count. COYR

[RedWillie]

That was so poor, right from the off. Rothwell and Smallbone were a car crash, Mara did sweet FA. Fair play to Hull,  out fought us easily and deserved the win. 

[Guest]

Having attended tonight I can confirm it was an absolute shambles.

That midfield three combo has shipped eight goals in three matches when neither Downes or Charles have played.

We were extremely stale to watch, and devoid of any ideas, all that said I thought tactically Hull were excellent.
Their closing down was exceptional and they showed up our midfield and their wide players very well, pulling in our full backs thus allowing the full backs to push down the line.

In some ways I felt for Bazunu in the first half. Crap parry to the opposition for the goal, but equally he had absolutely fuck all in front of him that was helping him.

I’m struggling to enjoy the football in the centre of the pitch. I don’t give a toss if we make ten passes in ten seconds, it all ends up back to the keeper. We’re so scared to take risks and run forward with the ball. Fraser was one of a couple who actually ran forward with the ball tonight.

Equally why can’t any CM have a shot from 19 yards out; so many times we have a chance and yet we pass side to side around the penalty area trying to pass it in.
Just bloody leather it once in a while, it’s not like all the keepers are world class at this level.

Bednarek I thought was very good second half and definitely was a leader. Aribo has to start next match, he was excellent when he came on, went in for every challenge and 50/50, largely winning them.

There were no other notable performances tonight, aside from horrendous ones. I’m pretty confident that if Smallbone wasn’t from the academy he wouldn’t be in a match day squad. Rothwell may have been a saviour in the Huddersfield game but he was invisible tonight. Same with Mara, never seen a player try and avoid the ball more, if the ball was on the right side he’d run to the left. Both KWP and Manning were extremely poor. Still awaiting for Sulemana to have even an ounce of fight in him, not really sure what he does.

We've blown a great opportunity, and yes there’s still a number of games left but three away matches at the top three, I can’t say I’m confident based on recent showings we’d get much in any of those games.

Also a shout out to the referee. He was a bellend from start to finish, and that’s being generous. I hope he spends his winnings wisely.

Edited 20 February, 2024 by FarehamSaintJames

[Harry_SFC]

Bazunu; KWP, THB, Bednarek, Bree; Downes, Aribo, Stu, Brooks, Fraser, Adams.

This is the line up id like to see going forwards. 

[6ft8saint]

Appart from his 2 goals against huddersfield 

[West end Saints]

  On 20/02/2024 at 22:48, Charlie Wayman said:

This was an absolutely abysmal performance and fans have every right to be annoyed and exasperated. It looks like curtains for the automatic spots and even if we make the play-offs there are at least two better teams than us with an eye on Wembley. Once again we were out-thought and out-fought and lacked the vision to change things around to our advantage. 

Another night to forget, that's two from three. We don't have the luxury of a game in hand anymore either. The going is getting tough…...

Expand  

I think that is post defeat emotion talking.

I sat in the stadium moaning our game in hand has gone and tonight could be the night promotion went.

However, 2 points behind with 13 games left so far from curtains to top two.

A few days ago we were 2nd, so to say two by better teams is pretty negative when they were looking up to us before the last few days!

[Harry_SFC]

  On 20/02/2024 at 23:11, West end Saints said:

I think that is post defeat emotion talking.

I sat in the stadium moaning our game in hand has gone and tonight could be the night promotion went.

However, 2 points behind with 13 games left so far from curtains to top two.

A few days ago we were 2nd, so to say two by better teams is pretty negative when they were looking up to us before the last few days!

Expand  

To be fair we were 6 points ahead of Leeds at the start of the year. We are now 2 behind and all the momentum is with them. Badly need a Leicester win on Friday now. 

[ErwinK1961]

  On 20/02/2024 at 23:09, Harry_SFC said:

Bazunu; KWP, THB, Bednarek, Bree; Downes, Aribo, Stu, Brooks, Fraser, Adams.

This is the line up id like to see going forwards. 

Expand  

This with bells on.

[6ft8saint]

I also was there and bazunu wasn't faultless in thing we were nearly 1 nil down in the 1st 2 mins due one of many crazy passes across the open mouth of goal 

[Osvaldorama]

Lots of football to be played yet chaps. 
 

Downes back soon, a Leicester win on Friday and it will all look different again. 
 

But Martin has to take the blame for tonight. Shocking team selection. 

[JRM]

  On 20/02/2024 at 23:01, HarvSFC said:

Too many passengers in the team tonight, can't get away with it at this level. Manning, Rothwell, Smallbone, S. Armstrong and Mara were all bad. It's key for central midfielders these days to be able to play on the turn, Smallbone can't do that. Whenever Bazunu gave him the ball, Bazunu then received it back under pressure because Smallbone can only pass the way he's facing, leaving Bazunu to hoof it to a Hull shirt every time. Destroyed our game plan, surprised we had as much as 58% possession and Smallbone isn't good enough defensively to make up for his predictability on the ball. Even at the end he sent in a few weird balls to no one when we were putting on the pressure.

Mara was a huge let down too. I talked him up the other week, his good cameos have fooled me in the past, but I thought where he made a good appearance from the start against Watford in the cup that he might be coming good. Unfortunately, not. Didn't do the basics tonight and when you can't do the basics at least pressure the opposition when they're on the ball and move when your team is in possession to give an option to. He did neither tonight. A. Armstrong laid off a good ball near the end of the first half and Mara was running away from the ball leaving the Hull defence and goalkeeper to deal with it easily. He's too unreliable.

Martin said the second half was an improvement, but we couldn't have been any worse than the first half. I didn't think we were particularly good in the second half either, until the last five minutes when we scored. Their keeper had very little to do tonight.

No excuses for not playing your best eleven in this modern era. 2011-12, Lambert, Fonte and Lallana (now a sicknote) all managed 40+ starts with three subs and a five man bench. Cork and Hooiveld just missed out with 39 starts. The luxury of having five subs and a nine man bench to choose from is being wasted, squad rotation isn't as necessary as it was 12 years ago with a lot of players only playing for 60 minutes a match these days.

 

Expand  

Agree entirely with you, Hull midfielder Seri I think his name was, excellent reminded me of Kante in his prime, how badly we need a player like that. 

[Jack]

  On 20/02/2024 at 23:11, West end Saints said:

I think that is post defeat emotion talking.

I sat in the stadium moaning our game in hand has gone and tonight could be the night promotion went.

However, 2 points behind with 13 games left so far from curtains to top two.

A few days ago we were 2nd, so to say two by better teams is pretty negative when they were looking up to us before the last few days!

Expand  

We’ve been shambolic in 3 of the last 4 games, that doesn’t bode well when we’ve got to pick up more points than 2 of 3 teams who in far better form than we are. 
 

 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

  On 20/02/2024 at 23:09, 6ft8saint said:

Appart from his 2 goals against huddersfield 

Expand  

Doesn't mean he's immune from being called out if he's not had a good game. 

[beatlesaint]

  On 20/02/2024 at 22:47, S-Clarke said:

I didn't think we were very good in the second half, we improved - it would have been hard not to, but it still wasn't very good. Left it too late to have any real go at them.

Expand  

Yeah he’s over selling it if he thought second half was very good, it was better but that didn’t take much.

Smallbone and Rothwell cannot play in that midfield together, it was horrible. Why he went for a weakened starting eleven tonight instead of Saturday against Millwall (if he must utilise the squad that is) I just don’t understand. Hull are a much better side so shoukd have been paid the courtesy of having our strongest possible line-up starting against them. I hope, as he has in the past, RM admits he got this one badly wrong.

[6ft8saint]

On the sulemana front I think he needs more minutes to get up to game speed I don't think he works well as a weeman super sub. But I guess if he's not there in training he won't get the start which he needs badly. We have stopped shooting again and need more goals. Boys sometimes trying a shot might suprise you 

[Harry_SFC]

  On 20/02/2024 at 23:22, beatlesaint said:

Yeah he’s over selling it if he thought second half was very good, it was better but that didn’t take much.

Smallbone and Rothwell cannot play in that midfield together, it was horrible. Why he went for a weakened starting eleven tonight instead of Saturday against Millwall (if he must utilise the squad that is) I just don’t understand. Hull are a much better side so shoukd have been paid the courtesy of having our strongest possible line-up starting against them. I hope, as he has in the past, RM admits he got this one badly wrong.

Expand  

I've said it time and again but Smallbone as the CDM is just a complete disaster.

We've now conceded 8 goals in 3 games with him in that position. How can Martin not see this?

Edited 20 February, 2024 by Harry_SFC

[S-Clarke]

  On 20/02/2024 at 23:22, 6ft8saint said:

On the sulemana front I think he needs more minutes to get up to game speed I don't think he works well as a weeman super sub. But I guess if he's not there in training he won't get the start which he needs badly. We have stopped shooting again and need more goals. Boys sometimes trying a shot might suprise you 

Expand  

I'm not really sure what Sulemana is all about if I'm honest. On reputation alone, price tag, wage etc he should be destroying this league.

Yet he's never really done anything. Yeah, he's been injured a little bit (another negative with him), but when he does play he doesn't do anything other than run into blind allies. I'd take the cash in the summer and move him on, accept the loss and another shit bit of scouting. (That January window is now on bar with the Carillo one - 4 players signed, two out on loan, one given away for free in the summer and the one left behind has been pants.)

Edited 20 February, 2024 by S-Clarke

[Osvaldorama]

  On 20/02/2024 at 23:24, S-Clarke said:

I'm not really sure what Sulemana is all about if I'm honest. On reputation alone, price tag, wage etc he should be destroying this league.

Yet he's never really done anything. Yeah, he's been injured a little bit (another negative with him), but when he does play he doesn't do anything other than run into blind allies. I'd take the cash in the summer and move him on, accept the loss and another shit bit of scouting. (That January window is now on bar with the Carillo one)

Expand  

He’s crap. Gives the ball away. Weak. Bad touch. Creates nothing. 
 

We are worse whenever he’s on the pitch imo 

[beatlesaint]

  On 20/02/2024 at 23:24, Harry_SFC said:

I've said it time and again but Smallbone as the CDM is just a complete disaster.

We've now conceded 8 goals in 3 games with him in that position. How can Martin not see this?

Expand  

Agree, he’s a decent enough player but hasn’t got the strength or pace for that role.

[S-Clarke]

  On 20/02/2024 at 23:25, Osvaldorama said:

He’s crap. Gives the ball away. Weak. Bad touch. Creates nothing. 
 

We are worse whenever he’s on the pitch imo 

Expand  

It's probably a bit of a stretch, but we have gone to the shit since he's been back on the scene.

[JRM]

  On 20/02/2024 at 23:22, beatlesaint said:

Yeah he’s over selling it if he thought second half was very good, it was better but that didn’t take much.

Smallbone and Rothwell cannot play in that midfield together, it was horrible. Why he went for a weakened starting eleven tonight instead of Saturday against Millwall (if he must utilise the squad that is) I just don’t understand. Hull are a much better side so shoukd have been paid the courtesy of having our strongest possible line-up starting against them. I hope, as he has in the past, RM admits he got this one badly wrong.

Expand  

The sad thing is I think most fans could see it was all wrong an hour before kick off. The way we're losing possession, leaking goals this all feels like the Saints we knew back in September. 

Walker -Peters definitely carrying a knock for 2nd half, he could have done with coming off. 

[bpsaint]

  On 20/02/2024 at 23:08, FarehamSaintJames said:

 

There were no other notable performances tonight, aside from horrendous ones. I’m pretty confident that if Smallbone wasn’t from the academy he wouldn’t be in a match day squad. Rothwell may have been a saviour in the Huddersfield game but he was invisible tonight. Same with Mara, never seen a player try and avoid the ball more, if the ball was on the right side he’d run to the left. Both KWP and Manning were extremely poor. Still awaiting for Sulemana to have even an ounce of fight in him, not really sure what he does.

Expand  

Rarely a truer word spoken. Smallbone by name, Smallbones by nature. Never seen him put in a decent tackle, nor sprint to close down a player, he’s probably worried he’ll blow away. Could do with a weights programme to build him up a bit.

[beatlesaint]

  On 20/02/2024 at 23:25, Osvaldorama said:

He’s crap. Gives the ball away. Weak. Bad touch. Creates nothing. 
 

We are worse whenever he’s on the pitch imo 

Expand  

I still don’t get the hype over him. Are we still basing it on that performance against Liverpool in a dead game at the end of last season? Cos if we are I wanna make a case for Lee Todd being our best ever and sadly misunderstood left back !!!

[Harry_SFC]

  On 20/02/2024 at 23:26, beatlesaint said:

Agree, he’s a decent enough player but hasn’t got the strength or pace for that role.

Expand  

Yeah, he's perfectly fine when you've got Downes behind him but I still think Aribo is the better player overall.

[6ft8saint]

  On 20/02/2024 at 23:20, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Doesn't mean he's immune from being called out if he's not had a good game. 

Expand  

I wasn't saying that but without him we'd be another game down as defeat. I feel we are back with other players having bad games due to smallbones lack of ability on the ball and not being able to turn. Also it's like a hot potato 🥔  for him alot that he just passes straight back to danger. Should have got rid when he said he didn't want to play for us at start of the season 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

  On 20/02/2024 at 23:28, 6ft8saint said:

I wasn't saying that but without him we'd be another game down as defeat. I feel we are back with other players having bad games due to smallbones lack of ability on the ball and not being able to turn. Also it's like a hot potato 🥔  for him alot that he just passes straight back to danger. Should have got rid when he said he didn't want to play for us at start of the season 

Expand  

I think he was a signing we didn't need to make in all honesty.

[S-Clarke]

  On 20/02/2024 at 23:28, 6ft8saint said:

I wasn't saying that but without him we'd be another game down as defeat. I feel we are back with other players having bad games due to smallbones lack of ability on the ball and not being able to turn. Also it's like a hot potato 🥔  for him alot that he just passes straight back to danger. Should have got rid when he said he didn't want to play for us at start of the season 

Expand  

I don't remember him saying he didn't want to play for us?

I don't think you can question Smallbones lack of ability on the ball, technically he's good - but he's weak as piss, that's the problem. He will get walked over by anyone if he doesn't have protection around him. If he has someone sitting a bit deeper and he has the space and time, he'll look good technically. He's just a bit meek.

[6ft8saint]

So where are the "25 unbeaten fans" tonight tell me my opinion is wrong?

[6ft8saint]

  On 20/02/2024 at 23:34, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I think he was a signing we didn't need to make in all honesty.

Expand  

I think he was signed as it looked like Brooks was going to Leeds at one point so 2nd best option but his deal went through quicker 

[S-Clarke]

  On 20/02/2024 at 23:35, 6ft8saint said:

So where are the "25 unbeaten fans" tonight tell me my opinion is wrong?

Expand  

What are you on about now?

[6ft8saint]

  On 20/02/2024 at 23:34, S-Clarke said:

I don't remember him saying he didn't want to play for us?

I don't think you can question Smallbones lack of ability on the ball, technically he's good - but he's weak as piss, that's the problem. He will get walked over by anyone if he doesn't have protection around him. If he has someone sitting a bit deeper and he has the space and time, he'll look good technically. He's just a bit meek.

Expand  

Imo I don't see that ..... as for not want to play he was trying push a deal through to join Sheffield United