hypochondriac Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 10 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said: It says we sign him as part of the Alcaraz sale and then we’re loaning him to Goztepe? So we’re taking a haircut on our incoming fee for Alcaraz to benefit Goztepe. No. This is literally the point of a multi club model. We are trialling the player for a year, seeing if he is suitable for our setup and then if he is we will buy him and if he isn't we will send him back with very little risk to us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErwinK1961 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 7 minutes ago, Hopper said: Sure but on the flip side of the coin we brought in Fernandes up front without selling a player so it's swings and roundabouts. As mentioned he's a saints player on loan, still an asset for us to sell on if he doesn't meet our needs down the road. Hmm, when we’re sailing close to the PSR line and every penny we have really needs to go towards trying to stay up, wasting £7-10m on a fee to the benefit of Goztepe I don’t get. Dont mind freebies or cheap gambles, but this feels like a step too far. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErwinK1961 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 Just now, hypochondriac said: No. This is literally the point of a multi club model. We are trialling the player for a year, seeing if he is suitable for our setup and then if he is we will buy him and if he isn't we will send him back with very little risk to us. What do you mean we will buy him in a year? It says we are buying him as part of the Alcaraz deal. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 10 minutes ago, Hopper said: Agreed this is how the multi club model will benefit us. On the surface it's easy to say 'Oh we're just wasting our budget on players for Goztepe'. But the realit is it opens the pathway for 'riskier' investments especially when we're now scouting more in south america and Japan. If some of these additions live up to expectations in Turkey it's an easy in and helps out massively for profit and sustainability in the long term. And it lessens our exposure whe and you get a carillo type player and we end up paying him in wages and can't get rid of him. Too many of them and it drags the entire club down. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLaw76 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 11 minutes ago, hypochondriac said: No. This is literally the point of a multi club model. We are trialling the player for a year, seeing if he is suitable for our setup and then if he is we will buy him and if he isn't we will send him back with very little risk to us. Are we not buying him now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 52 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said: He was a bit hard done by here TBH. When he first came in, he filled in a bit at CB and RB, don’t think he ever really had a run in his preferred defensive midfield position. The fee we paid seemed to effect the fans views of him, wasnt his fault we overpaid. I think there’s a player in there and a season with you guys playing regularly will do both sides a world of good. Just to provide a little more detail, he played RB in one game and CB two games, all the other games it was in central midfield. He was in and out of the side, with four consecutive starts the longest run. I don't think he is particularly hard done by on here. His performances have been assessed in comparison with other first teamers. There are certainly questions about the fee and what else it could have been spent on - Winks being some people's preference. He has then been given some leeway as he is very young and still learning. Compared to Sulemana, who is absolutely slated on here, he got off lightly. I agree with you that it's a good move for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopper Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 (edited) 16 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said: Hmm, when we’re sailing close to the PSR line and every penny we have really needs to go towards trying to stay up, wasting £7-10m on a fee to the benefit of Goztepe I don’t get. Dont mind freebies or cheap gambles, but this feels like a step too far. I don't think we're as close to the PSR line as many on here fear. The fact we dropped £15M on Mateus and likely £10M ish on Bijlow on top of the bits we've already done suggests there is more headroom than many think. (I believe this belief is probably driven mainly by us not going in on MOR for £25M) If he returns from his loan next year and is as-good or better than Charley plus we get some cash on top that only strengthens the PSR position. Edited August 22 by Hopper 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwbu Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 (edited) Loving the mix of ‘we need to be more like Brighton!’ vs ‘why are we spending all our money on Goztepe!’ as we take an approach that is much more Brighton… A multi club model is not going to reap success overnight, and i’m sure instant relegation for the flagship team (us) was not part of any strategy, so it’s going to take some time. Edited August 22 by saintwbu 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 33 minutes ago, hypochondriac said: Not sure why some are finding it difficult to understand. Absolutely nobody is giving us 40 million for Alcaraz and we can't afford to have an asset like him largely sat on the bench most weeks. Not sure why some people think playing in Turkey means he could cope with playing in Prem or Championship! 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 39 minutes ago, hypochondriac said: No. This is literally the point of a multi club model. We are trialling the player for a year, seeing if he is suitable for our setup and then if he is we will buy him and if he isn't we will send him back with very little risk to us. In the meantime we are down a player who has, at a very young age, shown glimpses of ability in the Prem and is one of our only naturally creative players. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 3 minutes ago, Saint_clark said: In the meantime we are down a player who has, at a very young age, shown glimpses of ability in the Prem and is one of our only naturally creative players. Well hopefully the 18m will be used to recruit which I think we will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 7 minutes ago, Saint_clark said: In the meantime we are down a player who has, at a very young age, shown glimpses of ability in the Prem and is one of our only naturally creative players. 3 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said: Well hopefully the 18m will be used to recruit which I think we will Fernandes is probably the Alcaraz replacement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 1 minute ago, Matthew Le God said: Fernandes is probably the Alcaraz replacement. I was hoping for more of a 9 TBH and with money from TP have nice war chest to get one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 11 minutes ago, Saint_clark said: In the meantime we are down a player who has, at a very young age, shown glimpses of ability in the Prem and is one of our only naturally creative players. To be fair, while he may have shown glimpses, overall his contribution to goals or assists has been mediocre at best. We need more…much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 38 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said: Are we not buying him now? The other tweet I saw said he would be loaned out to Goztepe. If it is the case that we are buying him first then it's possible that he wouldn't he t a work permit without going to Turkey first. Either way the multi club model is doing its job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 14 minutes ago, Saint_clark said: In the meantime we are down a player who has, at a very young age, shown glimpses of ability in the Prem and is one of our only naturally creative players. I expect Alcaraz and his representatives have little interest in him having a bit part role off the bench in a system he doesn't fully suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSA96 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 Interested to know why nobody in Europe has come in for Charly. Is it known that he wants a move back to South America and that's why Saints are putting in the effort of trying to get this Flamengo deal to be as amenable as possible? Would tie in with RM saying he was having family issues and there's the fact he's never learned the language Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 6 minutes ago, hypochondriac said: The other tweet I saw said he would be loaned out to Goztepe. If it is the case that we are buying him first then it's possible that he wouldn't he t a work permit without going to Turkey first. Either way the multi club model is doing its job. Question: Does the multi club model work between players and clubs if they have a big difference in standard? Looking at VA for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 1 minute ago, Give it to Ron said: Question: Does the multi club model work between players and clubs if they have a big difference in standard? Looking at VA for example. Maybe they will be the feeder club for another one of the club's in the chain. Wasn't there a rumour of an Irish club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 4 minutes ago, hypochondriac said: Maybe they will be the feeder club for another one of the club's in the chain. Wasn't there a rumour of an Irish club? What is standard of Turkish league ? Gala/Fenerbache Prem level? what are rest is it competitive and better than our Championship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 16 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said: To be fair, while he may have shown glimpses, overall his contribution to goals or assists has been mediocre at best. We need more…much more. Last season in the Prem he got more goals than Stuart or Adam Armstrong Aribo, Sulemana. Last season he was shipped out before we even got going. I refuse to agree with anyone who says we are better off with Smallbone in that attacking midfield role than Alcaraz. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 8 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said: What is standard of Turkish league ? Gala/Fenerbache Prem level? what are rest is it competitive and better than our Championship Well it's 10th in the uefa rankings just below Portugal and Belgium so I expect it's a pretty good standard. By comparison Scotland are 17th. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santolijador Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 3 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said: What is standard of Turkish league ? Gala/Fenerbache Prem level? what are rest is it competitive and better than our Championship Yeah pretty much - it is somewhere between 9th and 11th in the UEFA coefficient rankings putting it close to Czechia, Belgium and Norway. I would say the main benefit is that it provides work permit points for otherwise ineligible players - a la Kuryu Matsuki. Personally I found the answer at the recent forum interesting about the network of coaches having regular meetings to discuss tactics and try to learn from each other. From what I can see Goztepe are playing a similar formation to ours this season (and you would say they are in a relatively similar position fighting to stay up) - they have started quite well using that formation and given the similarities in terms of context, I am fully on the side of 'this is a good thing' camp - testing players out in that context, in a familiar formation, with a coach who is semi-regular contact with Russel Martin. Early days yet of course it must be said, but I'm taking the glass half full side. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegalEagle Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 7 minutes ago, Saint_clark said: Last season in the Prem he got more goals than Stuart or Adam Armstrong Aribo, Sulemana. Last season he was shipped out before we even got going. I refuse to agree with anyone who says we are better off with Smallbone in that attacking midfield role than Alcaraz. Hard to argue with that 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwbu Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 7 minutes ago, Saint_clark said: Last season in the Prem he got more goals than Stuart or Adam Armstrong Aribo, Sulemana. Last season he was shipped out before we even got going. I refuse to agree with anyone who says we are better off with Smallbone in that attacking midfield role than Alcaraz. Most fans find Charly exciting, but it’s pretty difficult to find a place for a player in a possession based game when he constantly gives possession away.. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopper Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 3 minutes ago, saintwbu said: Most fans find Charly exciting, but it’s pretty difficult to find a place for a player in a possession based game when he constantly gives possession away.. Exactly this he can be exciting and a liability at the same time. They aren't mutually exclusive. Smallbone isn't exciting but he is dependable and highly underrated in my opinion. 7 goals and 4 assists last year including the assist that brought us up. I don't see him as the creative attacking option in midfield, he's much more the 8 (Along with Mateus). We still need to replace Charley with a bonafide 10 that can push Aribo for a place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 (edited) 7 minutes ago, saintwbu said: Most fans find Charly exciting, but it’s pretty difficult to find a place for a player in a possession based game when he constantly gives possession away.. Last season he was dispossessed less times per game than (again) either Stuart or Adam Armstrong, Aribo, SAA and KWP. He was only slightly worse than Flynn Downes. He passed the ball to opponents less than S.Armstrong, THB, KWP and funnily enough, Smallbone and the same amount as Stephens. (This is all using opta stats btw) I'm just sick of this transfer strategy of signing younger players to develop and then ditching them before they're given the chance to. Edited August 22 by Saint_clark 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 42 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said: I was hoping for more of a 9 TBH and with money from TP have nice war chest to get one I read that as Taylor Barwood-Hellis originally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 17 minutes ago, Saint_clark said: Last season he was dispossessed less times per game than (again) either Stuart or Adam Armstrong, Aribo, SAA and KWP. He was only slightly worse than Flynn Downes. He passed the ball to opponents less than S.Armstrong, THB, KWP and funnily enough, Smallbone and the same amount as Stephens. (This is all using opta stats btw) I'm just sick of this transfer strategy of signing younger players to develop and then ditching them before they're given the chance to. Who else does that apply to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barsiem Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 21 minutes ago, Saint_clark said: Last season he was dispossessed less times per game than (again) either Stuart or Adam Armstrong, Aribo, SAA and KWP. He was only slightly worse than Flynn Downes. He passed the ball to opponents less than S.Armstrong, THB, KWP and funnily enough, Smallbone and the same amount as Stephens. (This is all using opta stats btw) I'm just sick of this transfer strategy of signing younger players to develop and then ditching them before they're given the chance to. I get the frustration but if Martin doesn't want him then there's no point keeping him. Not sure what other younger players we've ditched though? Moreso young players ditching us! There's Mara & potentially Sulemana I suppose... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Matty 76 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 Exclusive: #Southampton preparing to make a loan bid for #Arsenal’s Aaron Ramsdale. More on @SkySportsNews and here: https://t.co/OzHTtF6IG5 #Saintsfc #Afc #wwfc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westmidlandsaint Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 SSN reporting we are "in big" for Ramsdale on loan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OttawaSaint Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 4 minutes ago, westmidlandsaint said: SSN reporting we are "in big" for Ramsdale on loan Obama big or Trump big? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Matty 76 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 Feel like I can be quite relaxed about it if we're in a situation which looks like it'll be Ramsdale or Bijlow. Actually miles better than the standard I was expecting. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltonaggro Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 1 minute ago, OttawaSaint said: Obama big or Trump big? Tom Hanks 'Big' - that big! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 Maybe Ramsdale on loan would give us enough extra cash to pay for someone like Clarke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefizzy14 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 Ramsdale on loan would be amazing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNSUN Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 Ramsdale. Whether he fits Russball or not, he's clearly an upgrade on what we have. Yes please. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Ash Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 Expect this could be a tactic to get Feyenoord to accept whatever we have offered for Bijlow, showing we're shopping around. Either would be a massive upgrade on what we have. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patches O Houlihan Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 I note that Sky are describing the Ramsdale loan discussion as 'Loan with option to buy' ie Arsenal get their player bought; which they want. We get a solution that is more flexible for our finances over the next season or two. Also as suggested it might just be a negotiating tactic for Bijlow. Either way we would end up with a high quality no2 from a national side who is trying to impress enough to be in the no1 shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 Agreed. Looks like a bluff to me. We prefer injured players. 😉 1 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarvSFC Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 Interesting. Ramsdale's the better goalkeeper, Bijlow's better with the ball at his feet. There's big positives and small negatives for either. Is this going to be another Ramos and Gakpo situation, where we end up with neither? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie May Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 3 minutes ago, Patches O Houlihan said: I note that Sky are describing the Ramsdale loan discussion as 'Loan with option to buy' ie Arsenal get their player bought; which they want. We get a solution that is more flexible for our finances over the next season or two. Also as suggested it might just be a negotiating tactic for Bijlow. Either way we would end up with a high quality no2 from a national side who is trying to impress enough to be in the no1 shirt. Exactly. If we want Feyenoord to sell, our offer can’t Bijlow. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint NL Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 So we're loaning Ramsdale, assuming we're buying Bijlow to send him for a seasons loan to Goztepe? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 1 minute ago, Saint NL said: So we're loaning Ramsdale, assuming we're buying Bijlow to send him for a seasons loan to Goztepe? It'll be one or the other, not both. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintsFan86 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 Just now, Matthew Le God said: It'll be one or the other, not both. It's a joke. You're stupid. 13 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6ft8saint Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 24 minutes ago, hypochondriac said: Maybe Ramsdale on loan would give us enough extra cash to pay for someone like Clarke? Not sure I trust the fitness of Sunderland players right now look at the last duffer we've lumbered ourselves with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Matty 76 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 https://x.com/VI_nl/status/1826655523779084551 The top Dutch source stating that "All parties would find it strange if no agreement is reached tonight or tomorrow." about Bijlow, so looks like it probably is just a bargaining tactic. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopper Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 Bijlow, for me is the better fit. Ball playing keeper and at a decent price permanently. Definitely seems like a bit of deal sealing rumor-mongering. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 (edited) 1 hour ago, SaintsFan86 said: It's a joke. You're stupid. Jokes are supposed to be funny. So it was easy to miss... as it wasn't! Edited August 22 by Matthew Le God 2 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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