Summer Transfer Window 2024

[Chez]

49 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

Academic, we can only have one player on loan from Chelsea and we've already got Big Les.

could we replicate the `Archer Sheffield signing, disguising a loan by buying the player and then selling them back the following summer for a slightly cheaper amount (the loan fee)?

 

[Dellyears]

26 minutes ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

But from what I hear, Ramsdale is dodgy with ball at his feet? Not sure if it's true as I haven't really watched him much

All this talk about a goalkeeper's feet does my head in. I know its the modern way, I know Pep introduced it and everyone is trying to copy it but surely the first and foremost job of a goaly is to keep the ball out of the net.  That seems to be secondary now, and that's crazy. Please give us a goaly who can save shots

[revolution saint]

1 minute ago, Chez said:

could we replicate the `Archer Sheffield signing, disguising a loan by buying the player and then selling them back the following summer for a slightly cheaper amount (the loan fee)?

 

I guess so although can you do that in the same financial year (from a PSR perspective)?  

[Chez]

1 hour ago, Midfield_General said:

It does seem to have gone very quiet with KWP - don't remember any recent links to other clubs since the West Ham chat. 

I wonder if there's a point at which the new contract offer that we've apparently got on the table starts to look attractive? Feels unlikely though. At best we'd probably get one more half season out of him, then someone comes in with a proper low-ball offer in January, which the club are forced to accept to avoid losing him for zero in the summer. 

The clubs resolve could well be tested by a low-ball bid. We seem very reluctant to be `fucked over', so may stick our heels in to the bitter end. I wonder if the likes of Palace, Fulham and Brentford might try to get him?   

From his point of view, playing one more season here isn't going to hurt him. He will be available on a free and that will make him more attractive to more clubs. He can demand a higher wage too, as no fee is involved. Waiting until next year elongates his guaranteed stay in the prem. Move this summer and whoever he joins could go down - and he get a 40% cut in wage. Even if we accept a bid, doesn't mean he will want that move. 

It's in the summer, if we are still in the Prem, and no other decent offer comes in, when our current offer might look attractive. 

 

Edited August 19 by Chez

[Chez]

8 minutes ago, Dellyears said:

All this talk about a goalkeeper's feet does my head in. I know its the modern way, I know Pep introduced it and everyone is trying to copy it but surely the first and foremost job of a goaly is to keep the ball out of the net.  That seems to be secondary now, and that's crazy. Please give us a goaly who can save shots

if we are going to pass it short (a lot) deep in our own half, then it's inevitable that the keeper will see the ball a fair bit. He therefore simply has to be decent with the ball. If he is not, then you have to adjust the philosophy/style/tactic.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

15 minutes ago, Dellyears said:

All this talk about a goalkeeper's feet does my head in. I know its the modern way, I know Pep introduced it and everyone is trying to copy it but surely the first and foremost job of a goaly is to keep the ball out of the net.  That seems to be secondary now, and that's crazy. Please give us a goaly who can save shots

I'm with you. However, as it appears we will be proceeding with full-fat Russball, that will involve a lot of dicking about with the ball at the back and therefore the GK will need to be good with his feet. If he isn't, we have already seen what happens in the very 1st match of the season with McCarthy's blooper.

[Chez]

10 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

I guess so although can you do that in the same financial year (from a PSR perspective)?  

Do you want to or need to?

Chelsea sell us a keeper now and £15m goes into their FY25 books. For us, let's say the keeper has a three year deal, a £5m expenditure goes into FY25, and the rest would be accounted for in FY26 and FY27 (although it never does).

In FY26 they spend £10m buying him back, £10m goes into our FY26. Chelsea give him a 2 year deal, so £5m of expenditure goes in FY26 and £5m in FY27. 

Effectively we pay a £5m loan fee in FY25. Everything else balances/cancels itself out.

No idea how you do it `legally and within the rules', but if any club can work that out its Chelsea. 

[Chez]

Just now, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

I'm with you. However, as it appears we will be proceeding with full-fat Russball, that will involve a lot of dicking about with the ball at the back and therefore the GK will need to be good with his feet. If he isn't, we have already seen what happens in the very 1st match of the season with McCarthy's blooper.

Perhaps it's time to stop describing it as "dicking about at the back" and go with "doing everything possible to keep the ball, create space to get between the lines and open teams up"? 

[Jack]

7 minutes ago, Chez said:

Perhaps it's time to stop describing it as "dicking about at the back" and go with "doing everything possible to keep the ball, create space to get between the lines and open teams up"? 

As long as it’s going wrong and gifting opposition goals, it’ll be described as “dicking about at the back”, and rightly so. 

[OldNick]

25 minutes ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

I'm with you. However, as it appears we will be proceeding with full-fat Russball, that will involve a lot of dicking about with the ball at the back and therefore the GK will need to be good with his feet. If he isn't, we have already seen what happens in the very 1st match of the season with McCarthy's blooper.

whilst it was a poor pass by McCarthy, Stephens didnt need to play it to him in such a tight space. 

[igsey]

4 minutes ago, OldNick said:

whilst it was a poor pass by McCarthy, Stephens didnt need to play it to him in such a tight space. 

McCarthy had at least three options, plus hoofing it, in the end he picked none of them and didn't even pretend to try to save the subsequent shot.

He's had a whole season and two pre-seasons until RM, if he hasn't got the hang of it by now, he never will.

[UpweySaint]

5 minutes ago, Jack said:

As long as it’s going wrong and gifting opposition goals, it’ll be described as “dicking about at the back”, and rightly so. 

I think you have to take the rough with the smooth. It has risks which are exacerbated by crap decision making from a goalkeeper who doesn’t excel with the ball at his feet. It also has positives - we scored a lot of goals last season by drawing the opposition onto us. See Arma’s play off winner as a good example.

 

There are absolutely times when the short pass isn’t on and we need to be confident to play longer balls - variation helps keep other teams honest too - but Martin’s tactical approach is focused on bravery on the ball so don’t expect us to suddenly shift away from this. 
 

the frustration for me is the goal was easily avoidable and there were plenty of passing options (short or long) and you can’t really legislate for passing straight to one of only two oppo players anywhere near.

[OldNick]

Just now, igsey said:

McCarthy had at least three options, plus hoofing it, in the end he picked none of them and didn't even pretend to try to save the subsequent shot.

He's had a whole season and two pre-seasons until RM, if he hasn't got the hang of it by now, he never will.

He is not an outfield player that's for sure. As for didnt try that is unfair but people have the preconceptions and won't change their mind.

[Chez]

16 minutes ago, Jack said:

As long as it’s going wrong and gifting opposition goals, it’ll be described as “dicking about at the back”, and rightly so. 

Ha. Very good.

It's been a year now and I think it's fair to say that far more goals scored have come as a result of this tactic than those conceded. Some of those scored have been absolutely brilliant to watch. We have seen very few `bloopers'. Far less than I personally thought we would or was even be happy to accept. Championship finishing might have had something to do with that.

If McCarthy is in goal for an elongated period, that obviously won't help. But with the right keeper, it can work.  The alternative option it to `clear the lines' but goal  will be conceded as a result of conceding possession to ooften.

I think there has to be a balance. It needs to go long sometimes - when not under pressure, to keep teams honest. There also has to be very good decision making. Which pass helps get us into the position we want to be in and which pass puts us in a massive hole. The side needs even better footballers to do that.

The one thing I'd also say is the Prem sides set traps and spot weaknesses in players and individual passes very quickly. The intensity and concentration needs to step up if we are to make it work this year. 

 

Edited August 19 by Chez

[OldNick]

1 minute ago, UpweySaint said:

I think you have to take the rough with the smooth. It has risks which are exacerbated by crap decision making from a goalkeeper who doesn’t excel with the ball at his feet. It also has positives - we scored a lot of goals last season by drawing the opposition onto us. See Arma’s play off winner as a good example.

 

There are absolutely times when the short pass isn’t on and we need to be confident to play longer balls - variation helps keep other teams honest too - but Martin’s tactical approach is focused on bravery on the ball so don’t expect us to suddenly shift away from this. 
 

the frustration for me is the goal was easily avoidable and there were plenty of passing options (short or long) and you can’t really legislate for passing straight to one of only two oppo players anywhere near.

Also to be fair to Isak he played a perfect first time pass to the scorer, I suspect if it had happened the other way we would have crossed it over the bar or another balls up way

[Chez]

6 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Also to be fair to Isak he played a perfect first time pass to the scorer, I suspect if it had happened the other way we would have crossed it over the bar or another balls up way

This won't be the first time we are punished for a poor pass, decision, positioning etc. by far superior players to that we faced in the Championship. Last season we made a lot of mistakes that just went under the radar because subsequent attacks/opportunities fizzled out. Not sure we had a single thing to moan about Bednarek for all season. Players like THB did make mistakes though, but they got away with it, and even had time to recover their own errors. In the Prem, those same opportunities don't go begging.

When mistakes are made it will be painful, but we might need to cut them all a little bit more slack, otherwise we are going to spend the entire season just moaning about how crap the players all are.  

[Holmes_and_Watson]

I was never against possession based tactics. I had some concerns about the wisdom of putting it in place, in a promotion season. As Sunderland dismantled it's early days, I wondered if it was going to work. Overall, it was mixed. We'd create lots, but not finish. We'd have lots of possession, but not create. Or we'd have one of those, and leave ourselves open at the back. Martin was as frustrated as anyone, if it didn't come off.

But when it did work, it was excellent to watch. I'd see us pinging it through the lines, after having used the possession well. Sometimes, right at the edge of everyone's patience with it. But the players knew when to take the time, to create the opening.

That's the side of the game, we miss Baz in. He dealt with all sorts of rubbish, short passes. Without him, and without that sharpness from another keeper, then we diminish part of a system that Martin was relying heavily on.

Elsewhere, I'm seeing Les and Fernandes, if he joins, as Charlie and Charles' replacements. Charles needs a season elsewhere to develop. Charlie just may not suit the overall system, as much as he's liked and talented. Both incoming players, should better suit Martin's approach, and provide proper competition across the midfield. Which is something SR will be keen to get back to.

Downes, Smallbone, Aribo, Les, Fernandes, Lallana and Dibling

[UpweySaint]

15 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Also to be fair to Isak he played a perfect first time pass to the scorer, I suspect if it had happened the other way we would have crossed it over the bar or another balls up way

Fair point. Likely the step up in class will see us punished more often when we do have lapses.

Newcastle were ruthless with what was pretty much their only presentable (and presented) chance. Small margins.

 

[Doctoroncall]

1 minute ago, Chez said:

This won't be the first time we are punished for a poor pass, decision, positioning etc. by far superior players to that we faced in the Championship. Last season we made a lot of mistakes that just went under the radar because subsequent attacks/opportunities fizzled out. Not sure we had a single thing to moan about Bednarek for all season. Players like THB did make mistakes though, but they got away with it, and even had time to recover their own errors. In the Prem, those same opportunities don't go begging.

When mistakes are made it will be painful, but we might need to cut them all a little bit more slack, otherwise we are going to spend the entire season just moaning about how crap the players all are.  

I get that mistakes will be made, the trouble is the players need to be 100% committed but McCarthy showed he wasn’t, panicked, did not move his feet and played a nothing ball. 

[Jack]

29 minutes ago, Chez said:

Ha. Very good.

It's been a year now and I think it's fair to say that far more goals scored have come as a result of this tactic than those conceded. Some of those scored have been absolutely brilliant to watch. We have seen very few `bloopers'. Far less than I personally thought we would or was even be happy to accept. Championship finishing might have had something to do with that.

If McCarthy is in goal for an elongated period, that obviously won't help. But with the right keeper, it can work.  The alternative option it to `clear the lines' but goal  will be conceded as a result of conceding possession to ooften.

I think there has to be a balance. It needs to go long sometimes - when not under pressure, to keep teams honest. There also has to be very good decision making. Which pass helps get us into the position we want to be in and which pass puts us in a massive hole. The side needs even better footballers to do that.

The one thing I'd also say is the Prem sides set traps and spot weaknesses in players and individual passes very quickly. The intensity and concentration needs to step up if we are to make it work this year. 

 

I’m not against the philosophy overall, I’m against trying to implement it without the personnel able to deliver it. 
 

GK has been such a blind spot for the manager and board for years now, all the fans can see it, but they’ve chosen to ignore it for whatever reason. It’s bizarre. 

[Chez]

3 minutes ago, Jack said:

I’m not against the philosophy overall, I’m against trying to implement it without the personnel able to deliver it. 
 

GK has been such a blind spot for the manager and board for years now, all the fans can see it, but they’ve chosen to ignore it for whatever reason. It’s bizarre. 

Could not agree more. I said at the time that both McCarthy and Forster should have been allowed to leave. I also thought both Lumley and McCarthy should have been allowed to leave this summer. Two great opportunities, with clean slates, to get the position right, but both times we have `bottled it'  and not trusted our scouting and/or ability to bring in new players.   

Edited August 19 by Chez

[Hamwic]

I may have missed something, but what has all this chat about McCarthy's mistake got to do with this thread, ie. The transfer window?

[SuperSAINT]

[Jaime]

1 minute ago, SuperSAINT said:

Gustavo Hamer would be a cracking alternative... and cheaper if its about the fee or getting money from player sales first 

[DT]

Oh gawd. Further distance between us. Depressing. Where will our goals come from? And how can we stop them going in ? Not convinced we have a chance with Ramsdale or that he’d want to come. But really hope we haven’t got our shit keeper team on the lookout for a keeper even shitter than McCarthy to keep him happy what with that contract he was mystifyingly offered and signed. Come on Saints. Sort out the problem we have all seen (well, some of us) for a decade now

[SaintLondon]

I think the club have probably long moved on from MOR so I'm now more interested in who else they've set their sights on. Only thing that could work in our favour is if the Shea Charles to Celtic thing is a reality but even then, they'd most likely be separate deals anyway so irrelevant. 

[Verbal]

2 minutes ago, DT said:

Oh gawd. Further distance between us. Depressing. Where will our goals come from? And how can we stop them going in ? Not convinced we have a chance with Ramsdale or that he’d want to come. But really hope we haven’t got our shit keeper team on the lookout for a keeper even shitter than McCarthy to keep him happy what with that contract he was mystifyingly offered and signed. Come on Saints. Sort out the problem we have all seen (well, some of us) for a decade now

Can I recommend some high-quality weed?

[trousers]

...

Edited August 19 by trousers
duplicate post

[trousers]

2 hours ago, BERMUDASAINT said:

Some positive news on our sick notes: Ross, Adam and Sully.

Martin told the Daily Echo: “I think they’ll all be back on the grass next week.

“You’ll see them smiling and running around with the lads. They are all quite advanced in their rehab so they will be back.

“Hopefully in contention for the Carabao Cup game. I would suggest Forest after only a few days of training next week would be maybe too much.

“We’ll see – but we are hopeful that the week after that, all three of them will be back in contention properly.”

[DT]

1 minute ago, Verbal said:

Can I recommend some high-quality weed?

We are in for some, but face competition from Ipswich

[trousers]

2 hours ago, Midfield_General said:

It does seem to have gone very quiet with KWP - don't remember any recent links to other clubs since the West Ham chat. 

I wonder if there's a point at which the new contract offer that we've apparently got on the table starts to look attractive? Feels unlikely though. At best we'd probably get one more half season out of him, then someone comes in with a proper low-ball offer in January, which the club are forced to accept to avoid losing him for zero in the summer. 

 

2 hours ago, Chez said:

The clubs resolve could well be tested by a low-ball bid. We seem very reluctant to be `fucked over', so may stick our heels in to the bitter end. I wonder if the likes of Palace, Fulham and Brentford might try to get him?   

From his point of view, playing one more season here isn't going to hurt him. He will be available on a free and that will make him more attractive to more clubs. He can demand a higher wage too, as no fee is involved. Waiting until next year elongates his guaranteed stay in the prem. Move this summer and whoever he joins could go down - and he get a 40% cut in wage. Even if we accept a bid, doesn't mean he will want that move. 

It's in the summer, if we are still in the Prem, and no other decent offer comes in, when our current offer might look attractive. 

 

Keeping KWP significantly increases our chances of staying up, which will be worth much more to us than banking c.£15m - £20m for him now (or whatever his current value is). Unless he's threatening to down-tools or such like (which he doesn't seem the type of character to do) then, to me, its a non-brainer that we keep him for another season.

Edited August 19 by trousers

[a1ex2001]

11 minutes ago, trousers said:

 

Keeping KWP significantly increases our chances of staying up, which will be worth much more to us than banking c.£15m - £20m for him now (or whatever his current value is). Unless he's threatening to down-tools or such like (which he doesn't seem the type of character to do) then, to me, its a non-brainer that we keep him for another season.

15-20m also makes a big difference on what we can spend this year in terms of the fair play regs letting him go for nothing next year see's us not only loose out on the fee but on the financial breathing room to bring someone else in.

[hypochondriac]

30 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

This was always going to be far more likely once we didn't get him early doors. I'd still like to see us sign an attacking midfielder. 

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, a1ex2001 said:

15-20m also makes a big difference on what we can spend this year in terms of the fair play regs letting him go for nothing next year see's us not only loose out on the fee but on the financial breathing room to bring someone else in.

It doesn't make that much of a difference if we succeed in selling Alcaraz, ABK and Mara. 

[SNSUN]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

This was always going to be far more likely once we didn't get him early doors. I'd still like to see us sign an attacking midfielder. 

Or a wider player for those games we need to stretch defences from wide positions. Edozie and Sulemana aren't the answer (even though they're still young enough to improve).

[Toadhall Saint]

8 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

It doesn't make that much of a difference if we succeed in selling Alcaraz, ABK and Mara. 

Abk and Mara all gone a bit quiet.

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Abk and Mara all gone a bit quiet.

ABK yes but not really with Mara. I'd assume that will be going through shortly it sounded like there was a fair bit of interest with that one. 

[Midfield_General]

25 minutes ago, trousers said:

 

Keeping KWP significantly increases our chances of staying up, which will be worth much more to us than banking c.£15m - £20m for him now (or whatever his current value is). Unless he's threatening to down-tools or such like (which he doesn't seem the type of character to do) then, to me, its a non-brainer that we keep him for another season.

On a personal level I absolutely agree with you and I would love to play the season with KWP in the side, but as others have said I have no idea as to how crucial it is to our other transfer plans to get him out and get a fee for him so we can reinvest before the window closes.

It sounded like they were very much expecting him gone at one point, but playing him on Saturday does suggest that we're not going to push him out of the door for purely PSR reasons, Chelsea-with-Gallagher-style, which is great. Bloody love KWP.

[hypochondriac]

If its true that celtic want 26 million for O'riley you'd have to think there was more than the fee for the reason we aren't going for it. Maybe he has turned us down or prefers elsewhere which is fair enough. I can't see us not going for it and the other dropping 18 million on a 20 year old in a less crucial position. 

[OldNick]

7 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

If its true that celtic want 26 million for O'riley you'd have to think there was more than the fee for the reason we aren't going for it. Maybe he has turned us down or prefers elsewhere which is fair enough. I can't see us not going for it and the other dropping 18 million on a 20 year old in a less crucial position. 

I have only seen one snippet of O'Riley taking a corner, he does seem to be some kind of demi god on here. Its amazing that he is so good clubs at the top of the PL dont seem to be interested. As I put earlier in this thread, this time last year nt getting Piroe was a disaster and his goals were going to send Leeds up. 

IMO any player who holds out like this saga, it rarely works. I know it may be Celtic who have held out but they have been proved right and got their price.

Move on to somebody we can afford

[TheAlehouseBrawlers]

47 minutes ago, trousers said:

 

Keeping KWP significantly increases our chances of staying up, which will be worth much more to us than banking c.£15m - £20m for him now (or whatever his current value is). Unless he's threatening to down-tools or such like (which he doesn't seem the type of character to do) then, to me, its a non-brainer that we keep him for another season.

Even if we could keep hold until January and then someone comes in and panics and makes a stupidly inflated offer as some usually do in that window….oh hang on, that’s usually us ain’t it………

[FarehamSaintJames]

Clubs like Celtic will be begging teams to make even a bid of £20m on deadline day if O’Riley is still there. 
There’s no way they’re going to turn down that kind of money in a hurry.

They’ll be a few deals/bargains as we approach deadline day, teams wanting players off the wage bill etc.

[Saint Scott]

5 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Clubs like Celtic will be begging teams to make even a bid of £20m on deadline day if O’Riley is still there. 
There’s no way they’re going to turn down that kind of money in a hurry.

They’ll be a few deals/bargains as we approach deadline day, teams wanting players off the wage bill etc.

He's still got 3 years on his contract so I doubt that highly. I'm sure Celtic would love to keep him for another 6 months at the least, if he has a good start his value will only increase.

[AlexLaw76]

14 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Clubs like Celtic will be begging teams to make even a bid of £20m on deadline day if O’Riley is still there. 
There’s no way they’re going to turn down that kind of money in a hurry.

They’ll be a few deals/bargains as we approach deadline day, teams wanting players off the wage bill etc.

MoR and Ramsdale are just days away, yes?

[WALK DMC]

1 hour ago, Jaime said:

Gustavo Hamer would be a cracking alternative... and cheaper if its about the fee or getting money from player sales first 

I also thought that he would be an option, although wasn't sure that signing three of the Sheffield United attacking players (BBD, Archer, Hamer) from last season which was the lowest scoring in the division. I do like him as a player, although he has a bit of a bad reputation for his fitness (rather rotund ...... ) 

[CSA96]

 

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, OldNick said:

whilst it was a poor pass by McCarthy, Stephens didnt need to play it to him in such a tight space. 

Exactly. That he did pass it goalwards just shows how indoctrinated this system is in their heads. Most footballers are simple folk. They can only do one thing at a time. That’s why the training is so important.

[Dellyears]

6 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Exactly. That he did pass it goalwards just shows how indoctrinated this system is in their heads. Most footballers are simple folk. They can only do one thing at a time. That’s why the training is so important.

Sounds horribly patronising

[Whitey Grandad]

3 hours ago, BERMUDASAINT said:

Some positive news on our sick notes: Ross, Adam and Sully.

Martin told the Daily Echo: “I think they’ll all be back on the grass next week.

“You’ll see them smiling and running around with the lads. They are all quite advanced in their rehab so they will be back.

“Hopefully in contention for the Carabao Cup game. I would suggest Forest after only a few days of training next week would be maybe too much.

“We’ll see – but we are hopeful that the week after that, all three of them will be back in contention properly.”

Some of them should be put out to grass.

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, igsey said:

McCarthy had at least three options, plus hoofing it, in the end he picked none of them and didn't even pretend to try to save the subsequent shot.

He's had a whole season and two pre-seasons until RM, if he hasn't got the hang of it by now, he never will.

They were three on three in our own penalty area. Playing the ball into that was suicidal.