Summer Transfer Window 2024

[S-Clarke]

3 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Yes, it's exactly the same. 

As I said, I think it would be easier to find a defensive midfielder who fills the role Downes does for the amount we're offering for O'Riley, and we may have been better off spending the higher amount on O'Riley. 

Lots of midfielders can pass and tackle. A midfielder that scores and assists at a high rate is a rare thing - and to be honest without JWP and S. Armstrong we have nobody in midfield now who I would be confident of getting more than maybe 2 goals this season. 

I think you're undermining Flynn's role enormously. He is pivotal to the way we play and build through the pitch, his positional awareness and understanding of exactly what is expected of him in this system make him somewhat priceless.

[hypochondriac]

If we are talking about keepers, I noticed that Chelsea are close to buying another keeper. What about looking into signing Robert sanchez? 

[hypochondriac]

I'm also nervous about the noises coming out from the club that we are going to try and put Smallbone in the starting eleven. 

[Dusic]

On BBD - Sheff Utd mate said this:

"He played wider for us - mainly from the left. Really like him as a bloke and he did score goals BUT he is just so big and clumsy at times."

This worth a read too...definitely seems a wide left forward rather than a central striker:

https://www.villarrealusa.com/2023/8/7/23822643/blackburn-rovers-villarreal-ben-brereton-diaz

Re the above on Smallbone...was one of our best players last season, crucial in our system, athletically and technically good and has end product. Of course he will start the season in the XI...he deserves to and think he will have a good season.

Edited July 24 by Dusic

[hypochondriac]

10 minutes ago, Dusic said:

On BBD - Sheff Utd mate said this:

"He played wider for us - mainly from the left. Really like him as a bloke and he did score goals BUT he is just so big and clumsy at times."

This worth a read too...definitely seems a wide left forward rather than a central striker:

https://www.villarrealusa.com/2023/8/7/23822643/blackburn-rovers-villarreal-ben-brereton-diaz

Re the above on Smallbone...was one of our best players last season, crucial in our system, athletically and technically good and has end product. Of course he will start the season in the XI...he deserves to and think he will have a good season.

Couldn't disagree more. Smallbone is fine in the squad but being in our starting 11 in the premiership will make it more likely that we get relegated imo. Smallbone was good sometimes but also underwhelming on a number of occasions last season. 

[austsaint]

30 minutes ago, Dusic said:

On BBD - Sheff Utd mate said this:

"He played wider for us - mainly from the left. Really like him as a bloke and he did score goals BUT he is just so big and clumsy at times."

This worth a read too...definitely seems a wide left forward rather than a central striker:

https://www.villarrealusa.com/2023/8/7/23822643/blackburn-rovers-villarreal-ben-brereton-diaz

Re the above on Smallbone...was one of our best players last season, crucial in our system, athletically and technically good and has end product. Of course he will start the season in the XI...he deserves to and think he will have a good season.

I agree that Smallbone, along with others like Arma and Airibo have earned the chance, or another chance to prove themselves at Prem level - but there is a very strong chance they won't be quite good enough.  That's why relying on them to be first choice starters, if that's what RM has in mind, is a risky strategy.   Re Smallbone - he is a technically adept player, but it's a stretch to call him athletic.   He covers plenty of ground, but at a loping pace.  He was regularly outstripped for pace last season, especially when played in a defensive midfield role.   

[SaintsFan86]

45 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I'm also nervous about the noises coming out from the club that we are going to try and put Smallbone in the starting eleven. 

You are deluded if you think Smallbone won't be starting. He's been given the 8 shirt.

[skintsaint]

4 minutes ago, SaintsFan86 said:

You are deluded if you think Smallbone won't be starting. He's been given the 8 shirt.

Shit, Manning has been given the no 3 shirt.......

[SaintsFan86]

Just now, skintsaint said:

Shit, Manning has been given the no 3 shirt.......

Because he had that shirt last year, Smallbone shirt number is being upgraded to JWPs old shirt. You've gotta be silly if you think Russell won't be starting Smallbone, A player Russ absolutely loves.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

Smallbone developed really well under Martin.

Without Downes, he was more limited as were the rest of the team. When asked to fill that role, he was more limited too. When Stephens came into the side, pushing us forward directly, Smallbone had to adjust again.

But there were a good number of games where his movement, and tireless workrate made us click. As the season went on, he got better in everything.

If Martin moves away from the system that allowed Smallbone to develop, he may struggle. With our current squad, I'd be surprised if he wasn't starting.

Short of replacing players on a Forest-like scale, and with clear improvements,  we're carrying a number of risks into this season, right across the team.

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Couldn't disagree more. Smallbone is fine in the squad but being in our starting 11 in the premiership will make it more likely that we get relegated imo. Smallbone was good sometimes but also underwhelming on a number of occasions last season. 

Just checking my list of urgent weak links that desperately need addressing or we'll get relegated... Nah hypo, I'm not seeing Smallbone on there i've got to be honest.

I'm looking forward to seeing Big Willy smash some goals in this season, hopefully vs Forest to background chants of "You're just a shit willy smallbone" being directed at Shelvey 🤘. Smallbone will do fine. He's got a lot of minutes under him at the champ now and he's not fresh to the prem like Spiderman etc were. Plus he suits Martin's system and has good chemistry with the likes of Downes and Arma... i'm pretty damn sure we'll see him in and around the first 11 many times.

We'll wind up with something Alcaraz / O'riley /Aribo in front of Downes and Smallbone. Its good enough to keep us up - Its still a striker, full back (assuming kwp goes), winger, and goalkeeper that really need sorting.

[Saint_clark]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

I think you're undermining Flynn's role enormously. He is pivotal to the way we play and build through the pitch, his positional awareness and understanding of exactly what is expected of him in this system make him somewhat priceless.

I'm not undermining it at all. It's an important role. Time will tell if Downes is capable of performing in that role at this level. 

It's also very important to score goals and right now our best source of goals is Adam Armstrong, who was horrendous at doing just that last time we were in the Prem. At the very least he needs the pressure taken off him with some other players in the team that score goals. Since our last season up here we've lost Adams and Ward-Prowse who, without looking, I would assume were our two top scorers. 

 

[Chris cooper]

5 hours ago, Chez said:

Which is why we have apparently offered more, not the same. We don't know what Celtic want until we reach that figure. 

We can pay stupid money for  sully .. a relatively unknown quantity & now our record signing … but for a proven 18 goal a season dynamic midfielder .. we lowball & rightly so get laughed at ! 
 

same ol saints .. oh but but we tried to get him honest .. we went all out but got out bid .. 🙄

[SNSUN]

2 hours ago, austsaint said:

I agree that Smallbone, along with others like Arma and Airibo have earned the chance, or another chance to prove themselves at Prem level - but there is a very strong chance they won't be quite good enough.  That's why relying on them to be first choice starters, if that's what RM has in mind, is a risky strategy.   Re Smallbone - he is a technically adept player, but it's a stretch to call him athletic.   He covers plenty of ground, but at a loping pace.  He was regularly outstripped for pace last season, especially when played in a defensive midfield role.   

These are largely my thoughts - those 3 have earned their chance, as has Bednarek if he stays. I also agree with the description of Will, I find him technically decent, good eye for a pass, gets into positions to score, but he’s not the quickest and there were times last season that he didn’t work hard enough defensively. Hopefully all coachable and he can still improve but he’ll definitely be in the starting line up alongside Downes and, we hope, O’Riley with Charles, Aribo, Lallana and Charly as alternatives (and hopefully Dibling).

[verlaine1979]

Still think we need someone of substance to play alongside Downes. Whatever the configuration of midfielders you pick from our current squad, it looks lightweight.

[Saint Keef]

I actually thought Smallbone was MOTM in the final at Wembley. He improved as last season progressed and I believe has developed into a very good player. His through ball to Arma for the winner at Wembley was superb and allowed Arma to run on to it.....and we all know how that ended up. I'd be happy to see him in the starting XI.

[West end Saints]

6 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

I'm also nervous about the noises coming out from the club that we are going to try and put Smallbone in the starting eleven. 

I think they are open to upgrading him, but he was our best player for the last month of the season and a key factor throughout the successful play off campaign so is likely, and rightly, a contender to start.

(Edit - replied before seeing the widespread support for Will - glad most could see what he did for the team appreciated his pivotal role in our promotion, all about opinions...

Edited July 25 by West end Saints

[verlaine1979]

Smallbone has a decent eye for a pass and a knack of arriving in the box to nab the odd goal. Should be competing with O'Riley/a.n.other for the AM role. But if he plays DM or CM in the premier League he's going to get stomped by just about everyone he comes up against.

[Wade Garrett]

Smallbone deserves the opportunity to test himself in the Premier League.  It’s up to him to show he’s good enough.

[Chez]

5 hours ago, Chris cooper said:

We can pay stupid money for  sully .. a relatively unknown quantity & now our record signing … but for a proven 18 goal a season dynamic midfielder .. we lowball & rightly so get laughed at ! 
 

same ol saints .. oh but but we tried to get him honest .. we went all out but got out bid .. 🙄

Who is laughing? A Celtic fan that thinks he's worth a shed load more? I really wouldn't worry about it too much. 

What is funny is that Atlanta, a club that has a pretty decent transfer record in recent times and has money to spend, are bidding around the same amount. They don't seem concerned about the opinion of Celtic fans about their bid.

I'm glad we are going in at about the same level and not splashing massive amounts straight away. Shows a lot of sense (not showing desperation) that perhaps wasn't there before.

 

[Chez]

1 minute ago, Wade Garrett said:

Smallbone deserves the opportunity to test himself in the Premier League.  It’s up to him to show he’s good enough.

Pretty fair. 

He is a very good passer of the ball. Hopefully we will see it (the ball) now and then.

[Chez]

5 hours ago, SNSUN said:

 score, but he’s not the quickest and there were times last season that he didn’t work hard enough defensively. 

One of the most pathetic tacklers I have ever seen play in central midfield for Saints. An absolute pussy. Thankfully, no one ever gets the chance to make a tackle in the Prem, so it won't be noticed.

[hypochondriac]

7 hours ago, SaintsFan86 said:

You are deluded if you think Smallbone won't be starting. He's been given the 8 shirt.

Where did I say I didn't think he would be starting? I actually said the opposite. 

[hypochondriac]

5 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

Still think we need someone of substance to play alongside Downes. Whatever the configuration of midfielders you pick from our current squad, it looks lightweight.

I agree. Seems the majority opinion is that Smallbone is good enough to be a starter. I disagree, I'd prefer him in the squad without any pressure to perform. 

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, West end Saints said:

I think they are open to upgrading him, but he was our best player for the last month of the season and a key factor throughout the successful play off campaign so is likely, and rightly, a contender to start.

(Edit - replied before seeing the widespread support for Will - glad most could see what he did for the team appreciated his pivotal role in our promotion, all about opinions...

So was McCarthy. I don't want him in the starting 11 either. 

[Chez]

4 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I agree. Seems the majority opinion is that Smallbone is good enough to be a starter. I disagree, I'd prefer him in the squad without any pressure to perform. 

I'd gladly take an upgrade in midfield, we need more bite, but Smallbone did have a good season and there was a lot of unjustified criticism.

Isn't Lallana his direct 'upgrade'. Plays in same position and offers exactly the same attributes - passes the ball, can't tackle for toffee.

[Tom & Gerry]

Smallbone not only passes the ball but makes himself available to be passed to. He also gets in to goal  scoring positions. Vastly underrated and hugely important  to the team.

[hypochondriac]

10 minutes ago, Chez said:

I'd gladly take an upgrade in midfield, we need more bite, but Smallbone did have a good season and there was a lot of unjustified criticism.

Isn't Lallana his direct 'upgrade'. Plays in same position and offers exactly the same attributes - passes the ball, can't tackle for toffee.

Possibly. I am happy for Will to play his way into the team and get chances to see if he's good enough. It's just the prem is a rather different kettle of fish to the championship and I would like to have other decent options so that he doesn't have to play if he gets shown up. If you'd asked me at the start of the summer I'd have said that his position is one where we would need an upgrade if possible. I accept we have lots of other areas to improve also. 

[hypochondriac]

32 minutes ago, Chez said:

Who is laughing? A Celtic fan that thinks he's worth a shed load more? I really wouldn't worry about it too much. 

What is funny is that Atlanta, a club that has a pretty decent transfer record in recent times and has money to spend, are bidding around the same amount. They don't seem concerned about the opinion of Celtic fans about their bid.

I'm glad we are going in at about the same level and not splashing massive amounts straight away. Shows a lot of sense (not showing desperation) that perhaps wasn't there before.

 

That's fine as long as we end up signing him. Let's hope so. 

[The Curse of St Mary's]

28 minutes ago, Tom & Gerry said:

Smallbone not only passes the ball but makes himself available to be passed to. He also gets in to goal  scoring positions. Vastly underrated and hugely important  to the team.

Play him as a #8 and he's decent. Play him as a #6 and he's awful which is why I'd like a proper back up for downes. Charles isn't the answer. 

[Chez]

27 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

That's fine as long as we end up signing him. Let's hope so. 

If I was him, I'd join Champions league Atalanta. We are going to have to offer more wages than them, so not overspending on the fee is probably a good idea.

[Chez]

3 minutes ago, The Curse of St Mary's said:

Play him as a #8 and he's decent. Play him as a #6 and he's awful which is why I'd like a proper back up for downes. Charles isn't the answer. 

Just saw some highlight is Lavia in a Chelsea shirt. Boy could we do with adding some of that kind of quality...throughout the side.

[Chez]

9 hours ago, Dusic said:

On BBD - Sheff Utd mate said this:

"He played wider for us - mainly from the left. Really like him as a bloke and he did score goals BUT he is just so big and clumsy at times."

This worth a read too...definitely seems a wide left forward rather than a central striker:

https://www.villarrealusa.com/2023/8/7/23822643/blackburn-rovers-villarreal-ben-brereton-diaz

Re the above on Smallbone...was one of our best players last season, crucial in our system, athletically and technically good and has end product. Of course he will start the season in the XI...he deserves to and think he will have a good season.

Clumsy. Don't like the sound of that. I didn't know he played off the left. We need a central striker, which is where he played for Forrest in his younger years.

[gammon cheeks]

6 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

Still think we need someone of substance to play alongside Downes. Whatever the configuration of midfielders you pick from our current squad, it looks lightweight.

Definitely need another DM in the squad this season..  

[Dman]

9 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

I'm also nervous about the noises coming out from the club that we are going to try and put Smallbone in the starting eleven. 

Personally, I think the role he finished the season in (box to box, advanced 8, 10 whatever you want to call it) where he was further up the pitch, suited him. 

I'm not sure he has the quality to push on in the PL, but between him and Aribo, if we can get some quality in along side them, will be enough. 

[ErwinK1961]

7 hours ago, Chris cooper said:

We can pay stupid money for  sully .. a relatively unknown quantity & now our record signing … but for a proven 18 goal a season dynamic midfielder .. we lowball & rightly so get laughed at ! 
 

same ol saints .. oh but but we tried to get him honest .. we went all out but got out bid .. 🙄

It’s the Sun FFS.

[goodymatt]

Smallbone really impressed me at the end of last season. He was a one touch passing monster, very strong pass completion, always showing for the ball and manages to work well in the tight spaces that Russ-ball puts our players in regularly. Really good knack for arriving at the right time and I think his finishing improved over the season. That WBA semi goal was beautiful.

During pre season last summer, he seemed to be more combative than he was throughout the campaign. Too many times he lost out 50/50 tackles and that’s definitely an area he can improve. Very much like Prowsey in terms of covering big distances without being quick.

He has earned the opportunity to see what he can do at this level, having been a key player in our promotion season. I agree that in the 6 he was struggling but with Downes we have a really good balance. When I watch him on the ball he looks more and more confident and definitely has the physique to be more competitive in the tackle. 

Only concern for me is if we are playing an opponent where 2 CDMs might help us but I think the 5atb option is Martin’s plan.

[goodymatt]

On BBD, if he is a left wide forward, he sounds a bit like Armstrong but on the other side? Would they work well as a pair in a 5-3-2 or would we still be missing that powerful forward?

[Ken Tone]

 

1 minute ago, goodymatt said:

On BBD, if he is a left wide forward, he sounds a bit like Armstrong but on the other side? Would they work well as a pair in a 5-3-2 or would we still be missing that powerful forward?

So he seems, as you say, to play from the left rather like AA did last season from the right. Either/both of them will benefit from a central striker surely? With Stewart suspiciously left at home so presumably still not fit, we need to make finding a target man type of player a priority. 

I worry that we're goingg to end up with AA playing in the middle. He just didn't seem to do as well there.

[Whitey Grandad]

8 hours ago, Saint86 said:

Just checking my list of urgent weak links that desperately need addressing or we'll get relegated... Nah hypo, I'm not seeing Smallbone on there i've got to be honest.

I'm looking forward to seeing Big Willy smash some goals in this season, hopefully vs Forest to background chants of "You're just a shit willy smallbone" being directed at Shelvey 🤘. Smallbone will do fine. He's got a lot of minutes under him at the champ now and he's not fresh to the prem like Spiderman etc were. Plus he suits Martin's system and has good chemistry with the likes of Downes and Arma... i'm pretty damn sure we'll see him in and around the first 11 many times.

We'll wind up with something Alcaraz / O'riley /Aribo in front of Downes and Smallbone. Its good enough to keep us up - Its still a striker, full back (assuming kwp goes), winger, and goalkeeper that really need sorting.

Do you have inside knowledge?

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

Smallbone deserves the opportunity to test himself in the Premier League.  It’s up to him to show he’s good enough.

He’s played there before. He’s not quick enough in every sense of the word.

[goodymatt]

6 minutes ago, Ken Tone said:

 

So he seems, as you say, to play from the left rather like AA did last season from the right. Either/both of them will benefit from a central striker surely? With Stewart suspiciously left at home so presumably still not fit, we need to make finding a target man type of player a priority. 

I worry that we're goingg to end up with AA playing in the middle. He just didn't seem to do as well there.

We will not survive if we are playing a 4-3-3 with Arma as the CF. He was so much more effective coming in from the right hand side, it’s an experiment we have already seen fail in this system at championship level and I would be shocked if that is the scenario come 30/8.

[Rebel]

Ben Bereton-Diaz and Adam Armstrong worked well together at Blackburn Rovers playing in a 4-2-3-1 where they both played in the 3 behind a big centre forward (Sam Gallagher) - BBD from the left and Adam Armstrong in the hole I think.

I'd be happy with signing BBD on loan ideally with an option to buy or for a modest fee to give us some strength in depth across the front.  

If we do play 3-5-2 in some games hopefully he would work well with Armstrong in the 2.

However I still think we need a centre forward to lead the line and I have a feeling they are looking at BBD and a centre forward. I would take a chance on Bojan Mioviski from Aberdeen for £6 or £7 million. 

And that's on top of a winger and an attacking midfielder.

I don't think we will play 3-5-2 every game though - I think it will  depend on the opposition.  I think we will play the 4-3-3 morphing into a 3-3-4 when attacking against teams like Forest and Ipswich.

Looking something like this at the starting point - with Sugawara getting forward like a winger and Armstrong moving inside:

                McCarthy

Sugawara   THB  Jan   Taylor

Smallbone    Downes    O'Riley?

Armstrong     Mioviski/BBD?     Clarke?

As for Smallbone he is good enough for the Premier League in the right position as an attacking 8 - he looked more than capable when he played there before he got injured back when we were in the premier league and before his loan to Stoke.

Charles is also more than capable of playing alongside Downes as as 6 in a double pivot or as a defensive 8 when we need a bit more steel in the middle.  But I would like someone who can cover for Downes as a lone 6.

Edited July 25 by Rebel

[Oldandtired]

8 hours ago, Chris cooper said:

 … but for a proven 18 goal a season dynamic midfielder .. 
 

 🙄

Proven? Really? 

[Wade Garrett]

10 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

He’s played there before. He’s not quick enough in every sense of the word.

You may be right.  But his performances when not playing defensive midfield last season were very good.  He deserves the opportunity based on that is all I’m saying.  
That doesn’t mean not being replaced if he doesn’t cut the mustard.

[Whitey Grandad]

5 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

You may be right.  But his performances when not playing defensive midfield last season were very good.  He deserves the opportunity based on that is all I’m saying.  
That doesn’t mean not being replaced if he doesn’t cut the mustard.

Last season was in the Championship. It’s a big step up to the Premier League.

I don’t get this talk about “deserves the opportunity”. This is a ruthless business. There’s no place for sentimental gambling.

[skintsaint]

23 minutes ago, Oldandtired said:

Proven? Really? 

Well he did get 3 league goals the season before as well.

[Maggie May]

16 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Last season was in the Championship. It’s a big step up to the Premier League.

I don’t get this talk about “deserves the opportunity”. This is a ruthless business. There’s no place for sentimental gambling.

Then you walk the tightrope of players not caring if they know they’re going to be dumped as soon as they’re promoted. A balance needs to be struck. 

[Midfield_General]

1 hour ago, Dman said:

Personally, I think the role he finished the season in (box to box, advanced 8, 10 whatever you want to call it) where he was further up the pitch, suited him. 

That’s where he played against Bordeaux - he was much further up, carrying the ball, running at people or looking for the through ball, and he did well. A bit more Stu Armstrong-style. 

Edited July 25 by Midfield_General

[revolution saint]

I'm not sure we'd be having this conversation about Smallbone if Martin hadn't decided he could play a deeper role.  He can't and all it did was show up his limitations - he's slow(ish) and can't really tackle.  If that's not his job then I think he could be OK.  He looks to be at his best as one of a three and if he's played like that then I reckon he's earnt a crack at giving it a go.  He'll need to improve on certain things but he's a decent passer, can move the ball quickly, spot chances and carries a goal threat so there's no reason he can't step up.