Carlos Alcaraz

[Saint_clark]

 

12 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Perspective... Taking him off avoids all possibility of a red card. If he'd been shown a red he would miss three games. Better to take him off in a game where we are winning than risk him not being able to play.

It's unlikely to be relevant though as we aren't going to get enough points with or without him!

I think we should go one step further. He's clearly our most in form player at the moment, so in order to prevent him getting injured or suspended we should keep him on the bench and not bring him on. 

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

 

I think we should go one step further. He's clearly our most in form player at the moment, so in order to prevent him getting injured or suspended we should keep him on the bench and not bring him on. 

It is clearly bonkers to take off your best player because you worry he'll pick up a second yellow especially in our current predicament. Our desperate situation calls for risk taking not a conservative approach. Same goes for subbing Lavia unless he was injured. When he went off Odegaard suddenly began to have a big influence whereas he'd been fairly anonymous until then. If we'd kept Alcaraz on and squeezed the final minutes out of Lavia we would have greatly increased our chance of taking all 3 points. Selles needs to realise that caution is not an option now.

[saintant]

13 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Perspective... Taking him off avoids all possibility of a red card. If he'd been shown a red he would miss three games. Better to take him off in a game where we are winning than risk him not being able to play.

It's unlikely to be relevant though as we aren't going to get enough points with or without him!

3 match ban is for straight red. If we were worried he'd pick up a second yellow that would have been a one match ban. Not ideal but we could live with it. We can't be basing decisions on what might happen because we're not sat in mid table obscurity. I'm sure Arsenal were delighted to see Alcaraz taken off at half time. 

[saintant]

13 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Perspective... Taking him off avoids all possibility of a red card. If he'd been shown a red he would miss three games. Better to take him off in a game where we are winning than risk him not being able to play.

It's unlikely to be relevant though as we aren't going to get enough points with or without him!

On the flip side he might have scored a hat-trick if we'd kept him on - that's the opposing positive  scenario.

[saintant]

8 hours ago, Saint86 said:

Or...it was a good tactical sub that nullified arsenal's main attacking threats, led to us going 3-1 up, and stopped a top of the table desperate arsenal having a shot on target that half until circa 70min 🤔🙄

Why not take off the invisible man Adam Armstrong then? He contributed next to nothing while on the pitch - I thought he even lacked effort which is the least that should be expected.

[Galway saint]

3 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Which would be why I said it is irrelevant anyway.  That's the perspective that you've misunderstood.

No again you have misunderstood. As you say ‘’it is irrelevant’’; present tense. At the point he was taken off we were winning and the three points would have taken us to within a point of safety and therefore the substitution was clearly relevant to whether we would get the three points that would have put us back in the mix. It was a baffling decision.

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, saintant said:

Why not take off the invisible man Adam Armstrong then? He contributed next to nothing while on the pitch - I thought he even lacked effort which is the least that should be expected.

Agreed he was invisible. Very poor game from him. But he clearly offers pace, and holding (over saliba) forced arsenal to play deeper defensively. 

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, Galway saint said:

No again you have misunderstood. As you say ‘’it is irrelevant’’; present tense. At the point he was taken off we were winning and the three points would have taken us to within a point of safety and therefore the substitution was clearly relevant to whether we would get the three points that would have put us back in the mix. It was a baffling decision.

We aren't staying up, so it's irrelevant, has been since about January.

[Hodgey]

What’s odd is how sparingly/inappropriately he’s been used, he can score, pick a pass and get into those ‘red zones’ we bang on about all the time. Should be playing 90m every game for me - Selles has been overthinking this. The type of player you would build around in the championship.

[Badger]

39 minutes ago, Hodgey said:

What’s odd is how sparingly/inappropriately he’s been used, he can score, pick a pass and get into those ‘red zones’ we bang on about all the time. Should be playing 90m every game for me - Selles has been overthinking this. The type of player you would build around in the championship.

IF , he remains here 

[Barsiem]

I think we can be fairly confident Alcaraz will be with us next season regardless. He only signed in Jan & whilst showing talent, he won't be at a level that would convince clubs to pay overinflated prices for him, which I think will be necessary in order for us to sell.

Selles subbing him at HT on Friday was the final nail in the coffin for me with him.  We need to get someone else in during the summer

 

 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, Barsiem said:

I think we can be fairly confident Alcaraz will be with us next season regardless. He only signed in Jan & whilst showing talent, he won't be at a level that would convince clubs to pay overinflated prices for him, which I think will be necessary in order for us to sell.

Selles subbing him at HT on Friday was the final nail in the coffin for me with him.  We need to get someone else in during the summer

 

 

Charlie looked pretty pissed off himself, sitting in the dugout.

[Fabrice29]

I get that people have a different opinion on the half time change and I had the same "wtf" moment when it came up on the screen but do people understand the reasoning behind it? Would much rather he was available for Thursday than the 2nd half of Friday.

[HnycS]

Now we know why he had to be subbed at half time.

 https://www.atptour.com/en/news/alcaraz-tsitsipas-barcelona-2023-sunday-final

Had a really big game to play today. Hope he recovers in time for Bournemouth talk about versatile!

 

[Saint_clark]

5 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

I get that people have a different opinion on the half time change and I had the same "wtf" moment when it came up on the screen but do people understand the reasoning behind it? Would much rather he was available for Thursday than the 2nd half of Friday.

I'd rather have the extra 2 points going into thursday and be only 2 points off safety. 

[Fabrice29]

3 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

I'd rather have the extra 2 points going into thursday and be only 2 points off safety. 

True, so would I, but it's not a simple Alcaraz stays on we hold out all half calculation is it?

[alehouseboys]

17 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Charlie looked pretty pissed off himself, sitting in the dugout.

I would not be surprised in the slightest to see him still sitting there throughout the first 45 on Thursday too, it's what we do.

Fuck the 'impact sub' malarkey, start him, if he's playing well, keep him on, and FFS try and win a fucking home game for a change.

[Convict Colony]

Its ironically saints that we concede 2 goals when we go to a more defensive back 5.

Wouldn't surprise me if someone fancied carlos in the summer, would love him next year in championship as he'd be awesome i reckon.

[SotonianWill]

2 hours ago, Convict Colony said:

Its ironically saints that we concede 2 goals when we go to a more defensive back 5.

Wouldn't surprise me if someone fancied carlos in the summer, would love him next year in championship as he'd be awesome i reckon.

he’d be high scoring in the championship for sure.

[Whitey Grandad]

3 hours ago, Convict Colony said:

Its ironically saints that we concede 2 goals when we go to a more defensive back 5.

Wouldn't surprise me if someone fancied carlos in the summer, would love him next year in championship as he'd be awesome i reckon.

That’s because it weakens the midfield and invites the opposition into your final third and penalty are. The result is inevitable.

[Give it to Ron]

18 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

That’s because it weakens the midfield and invites the opposition into your final third and penalty are. The result is inevitable.

It doesn’t help either taking off your one and only decent holding defensive midfielder in Lavia!

[Chris cooper]

3 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

It doesn’t help either taking off your one and only decent holding defensive midfielder in Lavia!

Those 2 points dropped are down to those  2 poor decisions in Alcaraz and lavia being subbed .. I fear  at 1930 on 28th may those 2 points wen we look back could have kept us in the division.

I reckon we beat boscombe Thursday.. pumped at Newcastle the following week….key game for me is forest away .

[S-Clarke]

6 minutes ago, Chris cooper said:

Those 2 points dropped are down to those  2 poor decisions in Alcaraz and lavia being subbed .. I fear  at 1930 on 28th may those 2 points wen we look back could have kept us in the division.

I reckon we beat boscombe Thursday.. pumped at Newcastle the following week….key game for me is forest away .

I still don't know why everyone is throwing their arms up in the air on the Lavia sub, seriously look back from 70mins on and he was blowing - he could hardly move.

The problem wasn't the sub, if you want to blame anyone blame the recruitment for giving us Diallo and deciding to sell Romeu.

And if we don't stay up because of '2' points, I won't be looking at this game as the game we threw it away in.  Wolves, Forest, Leeds, Palace to name a few would feature higher in my list. As crap as the capitulation was on Friday, it's still a bonus point in the grand scheme.

Edited 24 April, 2023 by S-Clarke

[Give it to Ron]

7 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I still don't know why everyone is throwing their arms up in the air on the Lavia sub, seriously look back from 70mins on and he was blowing - he could hardly move.

The problem wasn't the sub, if you want to blame anyone blame the recruitment for giving us Diallo and deciding to sell Romeu.

And if we don't stay up because of '2' points, I won't be looking at this game as the game we threw it away in.  Wolves, Forest, Leeds, Palace to name a few would feature higher in my list. As crap as the capitulation was on Friday, it's still a bonus point in the grand scheme.

Because he is 19 and he may well have been blowing but he still offers more than anyone else and got second wind.

His positioning is outstanding for someone that young. Diallo alongside him instead of was the call.

[Chris cooper]

3 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I still don't know why everyone is throwing their arms up in the air on the Lavia sub, seriously look back from 70mins on and he was blowing - he could hardly move.

The problem wasn't the sub, if you want to blame anyone blame the recruitment for giving us Diallo and deciding to sell Romeu.

And if we don't stay up because of '2' points, I won't be looking at this game as the game we threw it away in.  Wolves, Forest, Leeds, Palace to name a few would feature higher in my list. As crap as the capitulation was on Friday, it's still a bonus point in the grand scheme.

Nah I’d rather have a blowing lavia over a fully fit diallo any day of the week..going to a back 5 was bad enough wen we were holding in the middle before half time .... it invited sustained pressure but we somehow soaked it up through lavia .. diallo changed it dramatically wen he came on. 

As for Charly being sacrificed cos ‘he was on a yellow bollox’ is why also we didn’t get the 3 points both ridiculous decisions wen you’re in a scrap and desperately need points he was by far the best player on the park.Turtle neck is way way out of his depth.

We will beat boscombe and i reckon be a point from safety after Thursday .. only to be pumped at St James’s the week after .. could of had 2 extra points to cope with that leading into the forest game .

[S-Clarke]

25 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

Because he is 19 and he may well have been blowing but he still offers more than anyone else and got second wind.

His positioning is outstanding for someone that young. Diallo alongside him instead of was the call.

At what point do you make the call for the players sake though? I'd trust the judgement of those closer to the situation to be honest, we know how susceptible this guy is to injuries so the last thing you want to do is run him to the ground. Having him for 70mins per game for the rest of the season is better than 90mins in one, and then 0 mins in the upcoming 3 or 4 as he's injured.

We had the opposite argument last year - we'd overplayed Tino, managed him poorly etc. But this year we are being careful with Lavia and that's also wrong. But as I said, the problem wasn't the sub - it's the replacement, blame the scouts for giving us Diallo as the replacement.

[Chez]

2 hours ago, Give it to Ron said:

Because he is 19 and he may well have been blowing but he still offers more than anyone else and got second wind.

His positioning is outstanding for someone that young. Diallo alongside him instead of was the call.

Personally, I'd of taken Ely off, ages before as he obviously had cramp and was completely fucked. For me, their second goal came about because he was too fucked to track back properly.  That said, Lavia was also knackered. He wasn't just blowing on 85 minutes, and certainly hadn't got second wind at that point, he was completely done and not doing the things he had for the first 70 minutes. If we had kept Lavia on and they had scored, Selles would have got stick (not least from me) for not making an obviously needed change. 

There is a some 20:20 hindsight being used here to criticise Selles. Going to five at the back did slow Arsenal down and negate their wingers. Selles should get some credit for that. Again, personally I'd of taken AA or Ely off instead of Alcaraz, but that yellow card may have worried him. You do need your midfielders to be able to take one for the team every now and then to stop their talent breaking away and exposing defenders.

[Lord Duckhunter]

6 hours ago, Convict Colony said:

It’s ironically saints that we concede 2 goals when we go to a more defensive back 5.

Do you think we’d have kept a clean sheet playing the same way second half. City took us apart after we didn’t change things around after a decent first half. At 2-1 down at half time, the best I was hoping for was a draw, regardless of whether Charley stay on or not. 
 

Would we have scored the 3rd with only 2 centre halves on for the corner? 

Edited 24 April, 2023 by Lord Duckhunter

[Mr Saints]

Any chance he stays next season in the Championship?  🙏

[The Kraken]

3 minutes ago, Mr Saints said:

Any chance he stays next season in the Championship?  🙏

The only hope that I have for that is that he’s only 20 and he joined us in January when our relegation looked pretty likely. So it’s not as if it’s a shock that we’ve gone down. Arsenal away reinforced the fact that he’s good enough at PL level, it’s just whether he’s factored in a potential drop down a division. At such a young age I’m hopeful but not confident.

[SambaMaverick]

Can see him going to Italy or the like for around what we paid for him. Hopefully I'm wrong because he looks a really good player.

[Wade Garrett]

25 minutes ago, SambaMaverick said:

Can see him going to Italy or the like for around what we paid for him. Hopefully I'm wrong because he looks a really good player.

Why would we sell him for what we paid?

[SambaMaverick]

4 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Why would we sell him for what we paid?

If he doesn't want to stay then that gives the other team leverage, plus foreign sides have got a lot less financial clout than PL sides.

[skintsaint]

If he doesn't want to play lower league then best bet is to loan him out on full pay with the slight off chance we get promoted again.

[Saint_clark]

18 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

True, so would I, but it's not a simple Alcaraz stays on we hold out all half calculation is it?

It's also not a simple "Alcaraz stays on he's unavailable for thursday" trade off. 

[ErwinK1961]

3 hours ago, SambaMaverick said:

If he doesn't want to stay then that gives the other team leverage, plus foreign sides have got a lot less financial clout than PL sides.

The four years remaining on his contract gives us leverage. If he doesn’t want to stay then he shouldn’t have signed in the first place.

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

Good lad. One of the few I'd hoped to keep.

[St Louis]

Believe it when I see it, but I really hope so. For someone so young, he has slotted into a new team and league brilliantly. He looks such a top prospect. I’d rather we kept him over anyone else (maybe aside from Lavia, but we know he won’t be here long regardless).

[Sussex_saint]

if this is true - and I'm ready for our hopes to be dashed - then we look like we could be in a strong place for the championship. A combination of Alcaraz, Tino, Ballard Payne and Doyle would be fantastic!

[Wade Garrett]

14 hours ago, Ivan Katalinic's 'tache said:

Good lad. One of the few I'd hoped to keep.

He’s going to be a great player.

[sfc4prem]

Sutton ripped into him for his dive the other night.

Just needs to keep going on Duolingo to help him settle off the pitch.

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

Makes sense he wants stay. He's only been at the club a few months and settled well so it represents a chance for him to build a good reputation.

Could depend on how much we get when we sell Lavia, KWP and the like because I think SR will look to recoup some of their investments this summer and they may decide to offload anyone who'll turn a profit. 

[disconnect]

2 hours ago, Sussex_saint said:

if this is true - and I'm ready for our hopes to be dashed - then we look like we could be in a strong place for the championship. A combination of Alcaraz, Tino, Ballard Payne and Doyle would be fantastic!

Ballard, Payne and Doyle are totally unproven in senior football - we’re not going into League one or two! We might expect them in and around the squad but expecting those 5 to be our saviours (especially considering Tino has been injured all season) is a big ask.
We’d be better off including those like Mara, Edozie and maybe Larios who have shown promise but need a season of regular football at maybe a slightly lower level to  develop into the players we know / hope they can be. 

[Saint_clark]

25 minutes ago, disconnect said:

Ballard, Payne and Doyle are totally unproven in senior football - we’re not going into League one or two! We might expect them in and around the squad but expecting those 5 to be our saviours (especially considering Tino has been injured all season) is a big ask.
We’d be better off including those like Mara, Edozie and maybe Larios who have shown promise but need a season of regular football at maybe a slightly lower level to  develop into the players we know / hope they can be. 

Agreed. I'd still like us to sign a new keeper, but a team of;

McCarthy 

Livramento Bednarek ABK Perraud

JWP Diallo? 

Djenepo Alcaraz Edozie

Mara

Would do very well in the championship. Preferably with new signings to replace Diallo and McCarthy.

 

[AlexLaw76]

3 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Agreed. I'd still like us to sign a new keeper, but a team of;

McCarthy 

Livramento Bednarek ABK Perraud

JWP Diallo? 

Djenepo Alcaraz Edozie

Mara

Would do very well in the championship. Preferably with new signings to replace Diallo and McCarthy.

 

nowhere near enough goals IMO

[egg]

2 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Agreed. I'd still like us to sign a new keeper, but a team of;

McCarthy 

Livramento Bednarek ABK Perraud

JWP Diallo? 

Djenepo Alcaraz Edozie

Mara

Would do very well in the championship. Preferably with new signings to replace Diallo and McCarthy.

 

Bednarek, ABK and JWP are unlikely to be here next season. I'd hazard a guess that Tino won't hang around beyond the January window if he's back to fitness and form. 

Of our current CB's it's likely Stephens will stay, but I can see the others going. I can see that front 4 sticking around though, and I'd imagine they'll do well, although I'm far from convinced that there's anything more to Edozie than a few tricks and runs down blind alleys. 

[Saint_clark]

2 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

nowhere near enough goals IMO

The championship is a bigger drop in standard than you're remembering. Case in point, Adam Armstrong was a 25+ goal player in the championship, and that front four have all been better than him for us in the Prem.

[Roo1976]

2 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Agreed. I'd still like us to sign a new keeper, but a team of;

McCarthy 

Livramento Bednarek ABK Perraud

JWP Diallo? 

Djenepo Alcaraz Edozie

Mara

Would do very well in the championship. Preferably with new signings to replace Diallo and McCarthy.

 

the same group that struggled against Grimsby?............not a chance ,these players need to be coached properly and get some home truths told to them before we start thinking were coming straight back up.

[woodsaint1]

3 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Agreed. I'd still like us to sign a new keeper, but a team of;

McCarthy 

Livramento Bednarek ABK Perraud

JWP Diallo? 

Djenepo Alcaraz Edozie

Mara

Would do very well in the championship. Preferably with new signings to replace Diallo and McCarthy.

 

That might be the most lightweight football team ever assembled

[Hodgey]

Jwp won’t be there, and id be surprised if ABK is either. Take them out of that team and it doesn’t look strong. Also far too small and weak and I agree there are not enough goals there. Of that team I’d say only Tino, Alcarez and maybe Bednerak are top of the table challengers 

They need to keep Adams ideally or buy Gyorkes. And they need to find two big strong midfielders and centre half. Probably need a first choice left back too.

I think we are going to be most unpleasantly surprised at the strength of the championship compared to what’s left of our squad. Still an exciting time if we build correctly with a well chosen manager.