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Carlos Alcaraz

Master Bates

By Master Bates
in The Saints

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CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted
  On 14/03/2024 at 09:09, Barsiem said:

Nice to see fans of other clubs like to write off players after 2-3 games as well!

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Already with the comedy names too - AlcaTRASH....

Still, they will soon find our that every player criticised by a forum will prove them wrong and become world class because something something Sadio Mane.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2
Master Bates

Master Bates

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Sebastian Lopez, Alcaraz agent:

"Yes, Yes, in the middle I get a call from Juventus. This was a Monday, I meet with Southampton and we establish a little bit what the exit conditions are. On Monday night, I get Juventus on the phone, which even I was incredulous about. So, with all that reservation, I told Charly: ‘Look, Juventus fell for it. They promised to send an official offer tomorrow and then we’ll know’. The next day, at 08:30 in the morning, I had an official offer from Juventus on my mobile phone. In one day, we got the deal done,” 

“They had a loan of about €1.5m plus a penalty. Southampton were very keen that where he goes on loan there had to be a penalty if the player didn’t play. They looked for a clause where they tie in that the guy has to play. They created this penalty if the player plays less than 30% of the minutes, but it decreases to the point where the penalty is zero if he plays more than 60%.”

  • Like 2
Miltonaggro

Miltonaggro

Posted
Posted
  On 15/03/2024 at 17:22, Master Bates said:

Sebastian Lopez, Alcaraz agent:

"Yes, Yes, in the middle I get a call from Juventus. This was a Monday, I meet with Southampton and we establish a little bit what the exit conditions are. On Monday night, I get Juventus on the phone, which even I was incredulous about. So, with all that reservation, I told Charly: ‘Look, Juventus fell for it. They promised to send an official offer tomorrow and then we’ll know’. The next day, at 08:30 in the morning, I had an official offer from Juventus on my mobile phone. In one day, we got the deal done,” 

“They had a loan of about €1.5m plus a penalty. Southampton were very keen that where he goes on loan there had to be a penalty if the player didn’t play. They looked for a clause where they tie in that the guy has to play. They created this penalty if the player plays less than 30% of the minutes, but it decreases to the point where the penalty is zero if he plays more than 60%.”

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Slopez Lopez the financial genius...

Master Bates

Master Bates

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Alcaraz:

"When I think about where I am now it’s something incredible,”

“When I moved to Juve, my former teammates at Racing and also the president contacted me, as happened when I went to Southampton."

“I’m very happy to stay here. It’s one of those things you dream of as children, that is, playing in one of the great clubs in Europe. Playing for Juventus at 21 is something crazy."

“If I think about how I arrived here in such a short time, I ask myself ‘What am I doing here?’: it’s very nice. When I arrived, I was almost ashamed, I felt a little insecure."

“Arriving at Juventus, with all the great players it has had and has been something that can put you in difficulty"

Stu Man Do

Stu Man Do

Posted
Posted
  On 16/03/2024 at 18:55, Master Bates said:

Alcaraz:

"When I think about where I am now it’s something incredible,”

“When I moved to Juve, my former teammates at Racing and also the president contacted me, as happened when I went to Southampton."

“I’m very happy to stay here. It’s one of those things you dream of as children, that is, playing in one of the great clubs in Europe. Playing for Juventus at 21 is something crazy."

“If I think about how I arrived here in such a short time, I ask myself ‘What am I doing here?’: it’s very nice. When I arrived, I was almost ashamed, I felt a little insecure."

“Arriving at Juventus, with all the great players it has had and has been something that can put you in difficulty"

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Safe to say he doesn’t fancy coming back here then. Bit of a dodgy loan when you know Juve have no intention of paying the release clause and have 3 months to tap him up for a minimal fee.

  • Like 1
ErwinK1961

ErwinK1961

Posted
Posted
  On 16/03/2024 at 21:31, Stu Man Do said:

Safe to say he doesn’t fancy coming back here then. Bit of a dodgy loan when you know Juve have no intention of paying the release clause and have 3 months to tap him up for a minimal fee.

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Why do people keep thinking Juve are going to pick him up for a minimal fee?

bugenhagen

bugenhagen

Posted
Posted
  On 16/03/2024 at 21:31, Stu Man Do said:

Safe to say he doesn’t fancy coming back here then. Bit of a dodgy loan when you know Juve have no intention of paying the release clause and have 3 months to tap him up for a minimal fee.

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Didn't stop Janny-B coming back 😉

pimpin4rizeal

pimpin4rizeal

Posted
Posted
  On 17/03/2024 at 07:14, Weston Super Saint said:

You do know that Alcaraz doesn't decide his own fee don't you?

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But don’t you think our bargaining position is still weakened by the fact he wants to stay at juventus now .

i don’t think we are the type of club that will stand in his way here especially when we wasn’t giving him first team football under russ 

ErwinK1961

ErwinK1961

Posted
Posted
  On 17/03/2024 at 10:38, pimpin4rizeal said:

But don’t you think our bargaining position is still weakened by the fact he wants to stay at juventus now .

i don’t think we are the type of club that will stand in his way here especially when we wasn’t giving him first team football under russ 

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No.

  • Like 3
Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 17/03/2024 at 10:38, pimpin4rizeal said:

But don’t you think our bargaining position is still weakened by the fact he wants to stay at juventus now .

i don’t think we are the type of club that will stand in his way here especially when we wasn’t giving him first team football under russ 

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This is lunacy!

He played 23 games before being transferred to Juve with a total of 1100 minutes - roughly 48 minutes per match.

At Juve he's played 4 matches with a total of 175 minutes - roughly 44 mins per game.

We've agreed a sell on price for him.  If Juve stump up the cash he stays, if not he comes back, unless they agree another loan for next season.

pimpin4rizeal

pimpin4rizeal

Posted
Posted
  On 17/03/2024 at 11:41, Weston Super Saint said:

This is lunacy!

He played 23 games before being transferred to Juve with a total of 1100 minutes - roughly 48 minutes per match.

At Juve he's played 4 matches with a total of 175 minutes - roughly 44 mins per game.

We've agreed a sell on price for him.  If Juve stump up the cash he stays, if not he comes back, unless they agree another loan for next season.

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Juve have already admitted that they will not pay that price and renegotiate in the summer 

whatever was agreed was just juventus getting the player through the door..

not sure why you seem so adamant that they either pay that 49 million Euro’s or he comes back ?  

The player wants to stay ar juventus now we don’t usually stand in the way when a player wants to move to a big club .. to top that off  he was only a squad player under Russell as well. So the chances of us stopping him going to juventus are even less because of that 

it seems pretty clear if they want him he will go and it will be nowhere close to the 49m Euro’s 

Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

Is he injured? He wasn’t in their squad for their 0-0 today.

Pamplemousse

Pamplemousse

Posted
Posted
  On 17/03/2024 at 18:30, pimpin4rizeal said:

Juve have already admitted that they will not pay that price and renegotiate in the summer 

whatever was agreed was just juventus getting the player through the door..

not sure why you seem so adamant that they either pay that 49 million Euro’s or he comes back ?  

The player wants to stay ar juventus now we don’t usually stand in the way when a player wants to move to a big club .. to top that off  he was only a squad player under Russell as well. So the chances of us stopping him going to juventus are even less because of that 

it seems pretty clear if they want him he will go and it will be nowhere close to the 49m Euro’s 

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I'd accept a lower fee if we get a massive sell-on percentage.

Barsiem

Barsiem

Posted
Posted
  On 18/03/2024 at 13:17, benali-shorts said:

Presumably games missed through injury are omitted from the % appearances trigger for additional payments, which is, of course, convenient for Juve to keep his loan cost down...

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It'll mean they'll need to play him more in the games he's fit for though.

  On 17/03/2024 at 18:30, pimpin4rizeal said:

Juve have already admitted that they will not pay that price and renegotiate in the summer 

whatever was agreed was just juventus getting the player through the door..

not sure why you seem so adamant that they either pay that 49 million Euro’s or he comes back ?  

The player wants to stay ar juventus now we don’t usually stand in the way when a player wants to move to a big club .. to top that off  he was only a squad player under Russell as well. So the chances of us stopping him going to juventus are even less because of that 

it seems pretty clear if they want him he will go and it will be nowhere close to the 49m Euro’s 

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It's also pretty likely that Juve won't have any money to buy him anyway, even if the fee was reduced.  Unless there's a swap deal on I can't see it happening 

Lighthouse

Lighthouse

Posted
Posted
  On 17/03/2024 at 18:30, pimpin4rizeal said:

Juve have already admitted that they will not pay that price and renegotiate in the summer 

whatever was agreed was just juventus getting the player through the door..

not sure why you seem so adamant that they either pay that 49 million Euro’s or he comes back ?  

The player wants to stay ar juventus now we don’t usually stand in the way when a player wants to move to a big club .. to top that off  he was only a squad player under Russell as well. So the chances of us stopping him going to juventus are even less because of that 

it seems pretty clear if they want him he will go and it will be nowhere close to the 49m Euro’s 

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If we sell Alcaraz, it'll be because someone has made an offer that we deem acceptable, not because he wants to go to Juve and we don't want to stand in his way. That's pretty much never happened with any player.

the saint in winchester

the saint in winchester

Posted
Posted
  On 18/03/2024 at 15:20, Barsiem said:

It'll mean they'll need to play him more in the games he's fit for though.

It's also pretty likely that Juve won't have any money to buy him anyway, even if the fee was reduced.  Unless there's a swap deal on I can't see it happening 

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I would assume it was 'a sprat to catch a mackerel' deal. We all know Juventus wouldn't fork out €40-50M to buy him outright, but if have the upper hand, hopefully we can get this Matthias Soule (sp) as part of a payment?

Dragon_man

Dragon_man

Posted
Posted

The only way he'll come back is if Russ departs in the summer. I don't think this is likely at all. Promotion or not, Russ will be manager next season (at the start at least) and I don't think Charly fits with Russball.

If we aren't promoted I worry whether a weakened team can make Russball work a second season. I think not. 

It's a shame as I think Charly gave us another angle. 

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  • 1 month later...
S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted
  On 22/04/2024 at 21:02, Lighthouse said:

Why is it pointless, getting a loan fee for a player who wasn’t doing much here? I just hope we get a decent fee for him in summer.

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Why would you want to sell him? Ideally we now keep him and make him a pivotal starter in whatever league we are in, he's a PL level player as proven. He was in and out of the side way too much and could never establish himself.

Class player who we were lucky to still have, and we massively misused him.

  • Like 11
  • Confused 1
Lighthouse

Lighthouse

Posted
Posted
  On 22/04/2024 at 21:05, S-Clarke said:

Why would you want to sell him? Ideally we now keep him and make him a pivotal starter in whatever league we are in, he's a PL level player as proven. He was in and out of the side way too much and could never establish himself.

Class player who we were lucky to still have, and we massively misused him.

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He hasn’t proven he’s a PL player, if he had we’d’ve been fighting off bids for him in the last two windows. He's mk.II Gaston Ramirez. He may well turn out class somewhere but it doesn’t look like it’s going to be in England.

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John B

John B

Posted
Posted
  On 22/04/2024 at 19:19, AlexLaw76 said:

that was pointless

 

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  On 22/04/2024 at 21:02, Lighthouse said:

Why is it pointless, getting a loan fee for a player who wasn’t doing much here? I just hope we get a decent fee for him in summer.

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The Poster is a Clairvoyant I expect

However I am not and the club bought the player to make a profit and moving to Juventus was a chance for the club to see if could perform at a top club.

He does seemed to have made the grade so hopefully he will return to SFC to try to improve next season.

Osvaldorama

Osvaldorama

Posted
Posted

Could have done with him in a few games tbh.

His energy and creativity was a game changer. Barmy decision to bring in rothwell over this guy. 
 

But then almost every decision the club makes has been barmy for a long time now. 

  • Like 7
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 22/04/2024 at 21:09, Lighthouse said:

He hasn’t proven he’s a PL player, if he had we’d’ve been fighting off bids for him in the last two windows. He's mk.II Gaston Ramirez. He may well turn out class somewhere but it doesn’t look like it’s going to be in England.

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Sadly, I think this is probably the closest to how things will pan out... the words flatter and deceive spring to mind...

Edited by trousers
pimpin4rizeal

pimpin4rizeal

Posted
Posted
  On 22/04/2024 at 21:09, Lighthouse said:

He hasn’t proven he’s a PL player, if he had we’d’ve been fighting off bids for him in the last two windows. He's mk.II Gaston Ramirez. He may well turn out class somewhere but it doesn’t look like it’s going to be in England.

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Alcaraz was certainly one of our best premier league players at the end of last season anyway ..

gaston was actually a decent player .. he also tore up the championship when on loan at Boro .. he kinda fell down the pecking order for us as it was at the time we had Lallana J rod lambert etc ., he always looked quite creative and could pick a through ball 

  • Like 5
Saint_clark

Saint_clark

Posted
Posted
  On 23/04/2024 at 05:30, pimpin4rizeal said:

Alcaraz was certainly one of our best premier league players at the end of last season anyway ..

gaston was actually a decent player .. he also tore up the championship when on loan at Boro .. he kinda fell down the pecking order for us as it was at the time we had Lallana J rod lambert etc ., he always looked quite creative and could pick a through ball 

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I was gonna say, comparing him to Ramirez was a poor choice of words as he looked excellent in the championship. He also had 8 goals and 8 assists in 55 Prem appearances for us which ain't as terrible as I thought. 

Fitzhugh Fella

Fitzhugh Fella

Posted
Posted
  On 22/04/2024 at 21:05, S-Clarke said:

Why would you want to sell him? Ideally we now keep him and make him a pivotal starter in whatever league we are in, he's a PL level player as proven. He was in and out of the side way too much and could never establish himself.

Class player who we were lucky to still have, and we massively misused him.

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If he is/was so good why didn't we keep him instead of loaning Rothwell and Brooks?

SaintNewForest

SaintNewForest

Posted
Posted
  On 23/04/2024 at 06:43, Fitzhugh Fella said:

If he is/was so good why didn't we keep him instead of loaning Rothwell and Brooks?

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Because he wanted out as Martin wasn't playing him as much as he wanted. 

Juventus were also interested and, being blunt, whose going to want to stay here when Juventus come calling? 

  • Like 2
Dman

Dman

Posted
Posted
  On 23/04/2024 at 06:47, SaintNewForest said:

Because he wanted out as Martin wasn't playing him as much as he wanted. 

Juventus were also interested and, being blunt, whose going to want to stay here when Juventus come calling? 

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We should have built a side around him. Terrible management by him and the club. 

Unfortunatley, somoene like Alcaraz will never suit a structued, in flexible side like Martins. 

  • Like 4
Toussaint

Toussaint

Posted
Posted
  On 23/04/2024 at 08:35, Dman said:

We should have built a side around him. Terrible management by him and the club. 

Unfortunatley, somoene like Alcaraz will never suit a structued, in flexible side like Martins. 

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There is no room for flair, individuality or unpredictably in a Martin side, which is why I haven’t found it as enjoyable to watch as some have.

  • Like 6
S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted
  On 23/04/2024 at 06:43, Fitzhugh Fella said:

If he is/was so good why didn't we keep him instead of loaning Rothwell and Brooks?

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I believe Rothwell was his replacement, and if I'm totally honest with you - I have no idea, was pretty gutted when it was announced as it came from nowhere. 

He wasn't playing enough was the argument, but he should have been in the team every week. 

  • Like 2

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