Watford 1-1 Saints - Match Thread

[woodsaint1]

11 minutes ago, saintant said:

If we do win the replay we need to send out a much stronger side than today against Liverpool or it could be embarrassing.

Of course we will

[Harry_SFC]

4 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Jesus, the amount of nonsense which gets posted on here during a game never ceases to amaze me.

First half was disjointed and a bit messy, the players didn't really know where to pass the ball as the was no real link up and somewhat expected due to the amount of changes and debuts on show. The critical way of playing how we play is players making the space, being available to receive the pass, knowing where to be etc - if you don't do that, you look crap and you are prone to constantly giving the ball away. 

Dibling was really poor I thought. I know he's young, but he's not experienced or 'good' enough yet to stroll around like he did. He didn't offer any passing angles and we were so blunt because of that.

The difference in both Mara and Alcaraz once we brought on better players, who knew the system, around them was stark. Immediately Alcaraz had space, players available for the pass etc. Some of the hate spewed towards Alcaraz was just baffling I thought, I think he must have stolen Bad Wolfs girlfriend or something.

2nd half was much better though. Draw is a fair result, age old saying of a game of two halves and all that. Could do without another game, but we're not the only side with a replay.

I must admit, SAA really impressed me when he came on. I think the youngsters are better from the bench, making an impact. They just aren't good enough to start games yet.

Although Meghoma was decent against Walsall and ok today. 

Edited January 28 by Harry_SFC

[Jimmy_D]

4 minutes ago, washsaint said:

Not really been commented on but Smallbone made a huge difference when we came on.  Seriously underrated player: we took control of midfield once he came on.

Hopefully for the replay not as many changes - but keeping the unbeaten run going is impressive.

Always makes himself available in midfield, hardly ever loses the ball even when the pass to him is less than  ideal, and hardly ever misplaces the pass to another player.

All stuff that isn’t going to make the highlight reel, but done as consistently as he does it is a massive asset in keeping the team working as a unit.

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

13 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

Rothwell was pretty missing today as well, probably to be expected but he put in effort.

Yep, looked like an unfit 2022 version of Aribo traipsing around the pitch. Really slow, looked overweight and knackered when he came off.

Though Sam AA had a great cameo

[Maggie May]

3 minutes ago, trousers said:

Am I the only one who isn't too fussed about the unbeaten run, per se. Yes, of course it's not a bad thing, but we could go unbeaten for the rest of the season and still not get promoted. I'd rather get promoted without an unbeaten run than not promoted with one. In other words, give me 2 wins and a defeat over 1 win and 2 draws (using a 3 game run as an example) each and every time. (Yes, I know that the unbeaten run breeds confidence and keeps momentum going, but it doesn't necessarily increase our chances of promotion, especially if we end up drawing too many games...)

The risk is two wins and then a defeat, which could start a rot. Unbeaten runs encourage positive mentality. 

[trousers]

13 minutes ago, saintant said:

If we do win the replay we need to send out a much stronger side than today against Liverpool or it could be embarrassing.

 

1 minute ago, woodsaint1 said:

Of course we will

Even if that means comproming the strength of the teams we can put out vs Millwall a few days before and vs Birmingham a few days after...? 

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, Harry_SFC said:

I must admit, SAA really impressed me when he came on. I think the youngsters are better from the bench, making an impact. They just aren't good enough to start games yet. 

Yeah I think that's fair, I remember SAA's first start against QPR at home and he really struggled I thought. As a sub he is more of a threat, maybe Dibling can be more of a threat as a sub as well?

[Jimmy_D]

4 minutes ago, trousers said:

Am I the only one who isn't too fussed about the unbeaten run, per se. Yes, of course it's not a bad thing, but we could go unbeaten for the rest of the season and still not get promoted. I'd rather get promoted without an unbeaten run than not promoted with one. In other words, give me 2 wins and a defeat over 1 win and 2 draws (using a 3 game run as an example) each and every time. (Yes, I know that the unbeaten run breeds confidence and keeps momentum going, but it doesn't necessarily increase our chances of promotion, especially if we end up drawing too many games...)

At the moment I’m sure that as well as giving us confidence, it’s doing as much to create pressure on our rivals, especially with the points gap being whittled away steadily.

[trousers]

Just now, Maggie May said:

The risk is two wins and then a defeat, which could start a rot. Unbeaten runs encourage positive mentality. 

I agree that a defeat potentially adds risk to future results, but is that greater or less than the risk of being happy with a series of draws just because it preserves an unbeaten run? 

[gio1saints]

1 minute ago, washsaint said:

Not really been commented on but Smallbone made a huge difference when we came on.  Seriously underrated player: we took control of midfield once he came on.

Hopefully for the replay not as many changes - but keeping the unbeaten run going is impressive.

Just shows how important to the team is the understanding that Flynn & Will have created as our central axis unit.

We should not take for granted what they do - on and off ball - but it’s only when they are replaced by others that the obvious drop in quality sticks out. 
 

[S-Clarke]

5 minutes ago, Jimmy_D said:

Always makes himself available in midfield, hardly ever loses the ball even when the pass to him is less than  ideal, and hardly ever misplaces the pass to another player.

All stuff that isn’t going to make the highlight reel, but done as consistently as he does it is a massive asset in keeping the team working as a unit.

You've hit the nail there - we need players making themselves available, not glamorous roles in any way, but that creates space, creates passes angles and keeps the possession. Charles and Rothwell did neither, they weren't really sure of their roles so nothing ever got going.

Really boring and unsung role as such, but being 'available' in the right places, with the right body angle to receive the ball and move it on again is pretty much the pivotal aspect to how we play.

Edited January 28 by S-Clarke

[stknowle]

Must admit when I first saw the outcome of the LUDICROUSLY timed draw for the next round my immediate thoughts were that we may as well lose today but fuck it we're still in it, the run's still going and if we beat Watford @ home we get a shot at achieving one of the more memorable nights of our existence. C'mon!!!

[CB Fry]

From this result we can only conclude that both teams performed at exactly the same level. Both precisely, exactly the same.

[gio1saints]

Have to say this - I did not know Stuey could run so fast! Seeing him chase back and overtake that Watford player who was on a breakaway- after he’d taken the corner don’t forget- was something for sure must go on his career highlights reel- let alone the clever goal. Last Scot  I saw that fast won an Olympic 100m gold 😂. BRILLIANT ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT. IF Stu needed to remind anyone out there who doubted he’s still got the legs and the goals in him just check that out! Was like a greyhound catching a rabbit. 
 

PS. To save you the trouble it was Alan Wells 1980 Olympics and I’m sure Stu would piss himself at the comparison! 😂

Edited January 28 by gio1saints

[Convict Colony]

3 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

Have to say this - I did not know Stuey could run so fast! Seeing him chase back and overtake that Watford player who was on a breakaway- after he’d taken the corner don’t forget- was something for sure must go on his career highlights reel- let alone the clever goal. Last Scot  I saw that fast won an Olympic 100m gold 😂. BRILLIANT ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT. IF Stu needed to remind anyone out there who doubted he’s still got the legs and the goals in him just check that out! Was like a greyhound catching a rabbit. 

Yeah that was epic I've never seen him move so fast, also meghoma has wheels as well the way he chased down that winger and did the sliding tackle.

[woodsaint1]

10 minutes ago, trousers said:

 

Even if that means comproming the strength of the teams we can put out vs Millwall a few days before and vs Birmingham a few days after...? 

Yes. Getting pumped 5 or 6 by Liverpool could do alot of damage to our momentum/confidence. I dont see why we couldnt rotate a few out against Milwall at home and still win, and then go to Birmingham with a chance to pick our strongest team

[saintant]

12 minutes ago, trousers said:

 

Even if that means comproming the strength of the teams we can put out vs Millwall a few days before and vs Birmingham a few days after...? 

I'm not saying put out our strongest side but just as an example our starting midfield today was very weak. I'm sure we could mix it up a bit and allow players a bit of a rest with clever use of subs. Let's at least give them a bit of a game if we do get through against Watford.

[Long Shot]

24 minutes ago, Turkish said:

WBA is tough but then back to back home games against Hull and Millwall should be 6 points. March is tricky. We should be taking 14-15 points from February games. 

Lots of shoulds

[maysie]

5 minutes ago, Long Shot said:

Lots of shoulds

Not sure what your point is being that it’s the future.

[trousers]

17 minutes ago, woodsaint1 said:

Yes. Getting pumped 5 or 6 by Liverpool could do alot of damage to our momentum/confidence. I dont see why we couldnt rotate a few out against Milwall at home and still win, and then go to Birmingham with a chance to pick our strongest team

 

15 minutes ago, saintant said:

I'm not saying put out our strongest side but just as an example our starting midfield today was very weak. I'm sure we could mix it up a bit and allow players a bit of a rest with clever use of subs. Let's at least give them a bit of a game if we do get through against Watford.

Fair enough. I'm always open to persuasion

Edited January 28 by trousers

[JRM]

39 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Yep, looked like an unfit 2022 version of Aribo traipsing around the pitch. Really slow, looked overweight and knackered when he came off.

Though Sam AA had a great cameo

We'll have Aribo back from Afcon soon, will be surprised if Rothwell gets that many minutes unless we get injuries, doesn't look up to it at the moment. 

[Convict Colony]

Liverpool will be shitting it when we beat watford

[Sheaf Saint]

46 minutes ago, Jimmy_D said:

Always makes himself available in midfield, hardly ever loses the ball even when the pass to him is less than  ideal, and hardly ever misplaces the pass to another player.

All stuff that isn’t going to make the highlight reel, but done as consistently as he does it is a massive asset in keeping the team working as a unit.

Like a modern day Matt Oakley. 

[CB Fry]

57 minutes ago, Maggie May said:

The risk is two wins and then a defeat, which could start a rot. Unbeaten runs encourage positive mentality. 

What about 3 draws in a row, half the number of points as 2 wins and a loss. Pretty much guaranteed to not be second if that happens this month. Is that more positive?

[HarvSFC]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

You've hit the nail there - we need players making themselves available, not glamorous roles in any way, but that creates space, creates passes angles and keeps the possession. Charles and Rothwell did neither, they weren't really sure of their roles so nothing ever got going.

Really boring and unsung role as such, but being 'available' in the right places, with the right body angle to receive the ball and move it on again is pretty much the pivotal aspect to how we play.

That's the key. At the beginning of the season we had too many players standing still and almost admiring their pass after making one. That made us extremely slow, predictable and easy to play against, as the Ipswich player said. Now, we have players making passes and then they're back on the move, we play some very quick one twos around defences and the opposition has failed to contain us for the last couple of months, relying on hitting us on the break. Also, these days it's almost a necessity that a central midfielder can play on the turn, which is an important skill in most systems and why Lavia was so good last season.

When we brought the first team on + SAA in the last half an hour Watford couldn't contain us and were hoping for the 1-0.

[a1ex2001]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

 

Even if that means comproming the strength of the teams we can put out vs Millwall a few days before and vs Birmingham a few days after...? 

Yes, there is no way we send out a fire that weak against Liverpool to get battered!

[trousers]

29 minutes ago, a1ex2001 said:

Yes, there is no way we send out a fire that weak against Liverpool to get battered!

# Devil's Advocate Klaxon #

Given a hypothetical choice between:

- auto promotion & getting tonked in a cup competition we're not going to win

Or

- play offs & only getting beaten by 1 or 2 goals in a cup competition we're not going to win

Which would you choose? 

Edited January 28 by trousers

[Holmes_and_Watson]

18 minutes ago, trousers said:

# Devil's Advocate Klaxon #

Given a hypothetical choice between:

- auto promotion & getting tonked in a cup competition we're not going to win

Or

- play offs & only getting beaten by 1 or 2 goals in a cup competition we're not going to win

Which would you choose? 

As long as it's guarateed that we're in a cup competition we're not going to win, I'm not bothered about the rest.

... hang on...what were those options again...? 🙂

[E_H_Saints]

For me, I'm glad we are still in the cup.  Id personally like to see us face a PL team.  Forget about getting thumped etc.  Let's see what are mentality from this season can do against an opposition we could potentially be facing next season (obviously pending on promotion).  Let's be honest we all want to know if we can play the possession based football at a higher level.  

 

[waylander]

Liverpool have the League Cup final just before the FA Cup 5th round - hope it goes to extra time

[Lymington Saint]

Just back.  We were dreadful for an hour and only picked up once the four subs were made.  RM will have learnt quite a bit from that - mostly negative.  Holgate is not a full back, Stephens is ponderous on the ball, Meghoma looks promising, Rothwell is simply not up to speed with how we play, Alcarez was trying to make things happen but kept giving the ball away, Mara is better through the middle and Dibling is not ready yet.  Once the subs were made we were much better and moved the ball quicker.

The unbeaten run has been based on a settled team who have learnt to play the way that RM wants.  Make too many changes and we look like we did at the start of the season.  Just have to hope that we dont get a rush of injuries.

[rallyboy]

This is the first time in years that while being behind, even after 80 mins, it always felt like we would definitely get something.

Too many years of chasing an equaliser watching the clock tick down with no hope or attacking threat.

It's a new era of optimism and positivity. 

[JRM]

Sulemana, Bree, Edozie could all be available for the replay,  Martin might be pleased to have the game to give them a run out. 

[Chez]

Not sure Rothwell was that bad. I thought he was the one Saints player that showed any kind of intensity in the first half, pressing and putting players under pressure. I am not saying he was impressive, but at least he ran around. 

[Appy]

11 minutes ago, Chez said:

Not sure Rothwell was that bad. I thought he was the one Saints player that showed any kind of intensity in the first half, pressing and putting players under pressure. I am not saying he was impressive, but at least he ran around. 

Agreed, not going to write him off yet, he was thrown into a disjointed second half last week, then a much changed side today, he’ll get there. 

[Harry_SFC]

46 minutes ago, Chez said:

Not sure Rothwell was that bad. I thought he was the one Saints player that showed any kind of intensity in the first half, pressing and putting players under pressure. I am not saying he was impressive, but at least he ran around. 

Can't say I noticed him do anything particularly badly, likewise he didn't do anything that stood out. It's probably just about him getting minutes and up to speed with the style of play. 

[Saint_clark]

Have to say if we do get through, it will be interesting. Hopefully away to Liverpool we go full strength to see how well our style of play works against top flight opposition - it may be a good indicator of what's required in terms of transfers (or changes in tactics) should we go up. 

[austsaint]

3 hours ago, Lymington Saint said:

Just back.  We were dreadful for an hour and only picked up once the four subs were made.  RM will have learnt quite a bit from that - mostly negative.  Holgate is not a full back, Stephens is ponderous on the ball, Meghoma looks promising, Rothwell is simply not up to speed with how we play, Alcarez was trying to make things happen but kept giving the ball away, Mara is better through the middle and Dibling is not ready yet.  Once the subs were made we were much better and moved the ball quicker.

The unbeaten run has been based on a settled team who have learnt to play the way that RM wants.  Make too many changes and we look like we did at the start of the season.  Just have to hope that we dont get a rush of injuries.

You make a lot of good points (especially about the settled team who know the system well) in what turned out to be a great Cup tie - particularly the last 30 minutes.     The nine changes resulted in a disjointed, not-up-to-speed with the system first half.    Clearly Rothwell is still finding his way; Holgate always looked a risk at RB and young Dibling ahead of him looked all at sea.     Stephens has not (yet) established the smooth partnership with THB that Bednarek has.     Noticeable in the first half that despite all the possession there were no runners and no width to put the Watford defence under pressure.     Mara is not a winger, but improved when more central.  Fraser, Stu and young SAA immediately solved the run and width problem.   Alcaraz, out of sorts until the likes of Fraser and the two Armstrongs came on - he then came to life.     What a cameo from S. Armstrong.   Young Meghoma also looked more settled once the changes were made.  A replay given what's at stake is probably an unwanted extra game, but based on most of the second half, I'm happy about the prospect.

[saintant]

4 hours ago, E_H_Saints said:

For me, I'm glad we are still in the cup.  Id personally like to see us face a PL team.  Forget about getting thumped etc.  Let's see what are mentality from this season can do against an opposition we could potentially be facing next season (obviously pending on promotion).  Let's be honest we all want to know if we can play the possession based football at a higher level.  

 

We'll only learn anything meaningful if we put out a strong side. Fail to do so and we'll likely get battered.

[Kingsland Codger]

8 hours ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

My guy sounds like one of the early SKy commentators. He went off to do the PPV boxing, but I know he did some football commentary at one point too.

Paul Dempsey?

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, Kingsland Codger said:

Paul Dempsey?

Thank you! That was the name I was trying to remember!

[northam soul]

What was the need to have the front 5 or 6 rows netted off ?

[Give it to Ron]

How weird walking to the ground was listening to 2 Watford fans talking said they didn’t think they were good enough to hold onto a 1 nil win!

Watford apart from few crosses didn’t look much apart from goal scorer who ran game for them. One shot hit post can’t think of anything else troubled Lumley. Poor wall was problem just one player?

As others said once we had pace, width and players that could pass and move we were a different side.

I was worried Fraser had pulled muscle soon after came on but looked to have stretched it off. 
For replay we should have Bree and Ezozie back too.

[Saint_clark]

16 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

How weird walking to the ground was listening to 2 Watford fans talking said they didn’t think they were good enough to hold onto a 1 nil win!

Watford apart from few crosses didn’t look much apart from goal scorer who ran game for them. One shot hit post can’t think of anything else troubled Lumley. Poor wall was problem just one player?

As others said once we had pace, width and players that could pass and move we were a different side.

I was worried Fraser had pulled muscle soon after came on but looked to have stretched it off. 
For replay we should have Bree and Ezozie back too.

The wall was also set up in the wrong place - there was a direct line from the ball to where it went in, the "wall" was actually covering the side netting.

[david in sweden]

12 hours ago, trousers said:

 

Even if that means comproming the strength of the teams we can put out vs Millwall a few days before and vs Birmingham a few days after...? 

What player wouldn't want to play against Liverpool.  For those young players (and there were quite a few out there on Sunday), it may be yet

another chance for some of them to get game time.  Russell Martin was right to choose the "untried " lads - even for 60 minutes, as Watford 

are a tough, uncompromising side - even without their best players, and our youngsters got a first-hand taste of "men's football".   

Meghoma tried hard - though he was bounced about like a beach ball, whilst Hoedt and company showed no mercy on our lightweight forward line.

 

Admittedly, the start side looked unbalanced for quite a while, and a lot of simple passes went astray but if we get past Watford is the first priority, 

but even our seasoned pro's. will want to play at Anfield,  and with the chance of advancement another round in the Cup - who knows what may follow?.

Liverpool will need to keep their best players for Prem. games and try to retain their position at the top of the table,  PLUS one wonders ...what effect

Klopp's recent shock announcement may have on their dressing room in the upcoming period ?   

 

[east-stand-nic]

This result shows exactly why playing a hugely changed side is a waste of time. Instead of going out or winning we now have yet another game we probably did not want or need. FFS, play the first team from the start and then change it later if we are winning else what is the point? We just end up stressed and fighting back and then next week at Rotherham maybe we will have lost our rhythm. It is totally counter productive.

[SW11_Saint]

17 hours ago, Jimmy_D said:

Always makes himself available in midfield, hardly ever loses the ball even when the pass to him is less than  ideal, and hardly ever misplaces the pass to another player.

All stuff that isn’t going to make the highlight reel, but done as consistently as he does it is a massive asset in keeping the team working as a unit.

Turning into a modern day Nick Holmes… does a great job when on, but often goes under radar. Always missed when absent, but it takes a while for folks to work out why…

[DT]

13 hours ago, JRM said:

Sulemana, Bree, Edozie could all be available for the replay,  Martin might be pleased to have the game to give them a run out. 

Sulemana is a good shout for that one if we get through. He feels like the kind of player who will have an absolute blinder against Liverpool in order to go on the showreel and get a move. Can't say he's ever looked like he wants to be at Saints, particularly.

[SaintsFan86]

1 minute ago, DT said:

Sulemana is a good shout for that one if we get through. He feels like the kind of player who will have an absolute blinder against Liverpool in order to go on the showreel and get a move. Can't say he's ever looked like he wants to be at Saints, particularly.

If someone offered us £25Million now for Sulemana i'd bite there hand off.

[The Cat]

Is the replay definitely 6th Feb? I checked club twitter but couldn't see it confirmed.