Turkish Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 (edited) 1 hour ago, Convict Colony said: 23 likes currently, whats your record at the moment ? 30 laughs, not sure about likes 24 now plus another post on the same thread with 9 lols, Cant be many that can top that. Edited January 16 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 (edited) Mixed thoughts about this. On the inclusion of safe standing for 50% of a stand as part of plans to increase atmosphere... Basically everyone stands in Northam anyway, so safe standing in itself will have zero impact on atmosphere. By inspection this is just nonsense from the club. But equally, it will improve safety, so no loss there regardless and a good thing if anything... although i know there are people that argue about "safety" (or behaviour) in standing areas. The change that will create an atmosphere is creating a home end. But with respect to creating a "home end", Chapel is an entire stand dedicated to saints fans. Why is this not the home end already? In fact it was originally intended to be the home end, but (everyone who was so inclined) moved to the Northam stand and itchen corner to be next to the away fans... The only conclusion that can really be reached here is that the most vocal fans are associated with the away fans, and so will follow them wherever they move to in the stadium... so just like they've migrated to northam and itchen corner, they'll now migrate their way next to the chapel kingsland corner. And again, if all the club wanted to achieve was a full length of stand with safe standing... chapel is right there. So seems poorly thought out from the club. In addition, they will now have pissed off the baulk of chapel, family members, and the chapel end of kingsland due to a lack of consultation and consideration. Another issue is ofc that policing is far trickier for getting troublesome away fans to and from SMS from the chapel stand. Given its an unnecessary change in the first place. Ultimately, what I think is likely to happen is an opposite of where we are now. I.e. that the fans in Kingsland and chapel that don't want to be sat next to the away fans will now all move to the equivalent seats at the Northam end of the ground - and they will sit - and the club will for certain enforce seating in non "safe standing" areas as there will now be no excuse. In parallel to that, more vocal fans will move back to be near the away fans - Where there will not be safe standing 🤦♂️. We may even end up with a worse atmosphere, with a split home support, and a very vocal and unopposed away section - this happens a lot now even as it is - often with home chants only developing after a chorus of shit support from the away fans etc. Sadly, it doesn't feel like this change has been well thought out by the club at all, and they're pushing through a poorly considered change without even really discussing where to move the away fans to properly with season ticket holders and members that will be most effected. I do think the club really need to open this up to all season ticket holders and members for their thoughts on where to move the away fans. Clearly it would be easier and more effective to make the top half of chapel as standing - and not have to move the away fans at all. Or, if the club are intent on moving the away fans (which i do support if done well), move them to the Kingsland Northam corner? Also, the lower northam corner / itchen corner seats are the worst in the ground... Give as many of them to the away fans as possible imo. Edited January 16 by Saint86 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Saint86 said: Mixed thoughts about this. On the inclusion of safe standing for 50% of a stand as part of plans to increase atmosphere... Basically everyone stands in Northam anyway, so safe standing in itself will have zero impact on atmosphere. By inspection this is just nonsense from the club or anyone who thinks safe standing will have any impact on atmosphere quality. But equally, it will improve safety, so no loss there regardless... although i know there are people that argue about "safety" (or behaviour) in standing areas. The change that will create an atmosphere is creating a home end. But with respect to creating a "home end". Chapel is an entire stand dedicated to saints fans. Why is this not the home end already? In fact it was originally intended to be the home end, but (everyone who was so inclined) moved to the Northam stand and itchen corner to be next to the away fans... The only conclusion that can really be reached here is that the most vocal fans are associated with the away fans, and so will follow them wherever they move to in the stadium... so just like they've migrated to northam and itchen corner, they'll now migrate their way next to the chapel kingsland corner. And again, if all the club wanted to achieve was a full length of stand with safe standing... chapel is right there. So seems further nonsense from the club. In addition, they will now have pissed off the baulk of chapel, family members, and the chapel end of kingsland. Another issue is ofc that policing is far trickier for getting troublesome away fans to and from SMS from the chapel stand. Given its an unnecessary change in the first place. Ultimately, what I think is likely to happen is an opposite of where we are now. I.e. that the fans in Kingsland and chapel that don't want to be sat next to the away fans will now all move to the equivalent seats at the Northam end of the ground - and they will sit - and the club will for certain enforce seating in non "safe standing" areas as there will now be no excuse. In parallel to that, more vocal fans will move back to be near the away fans. We may even end up with a worse atmosphere, with a split home support, and a very vocal and unopposed away section - this happens a lot now even as it is. Sadly, it doesn't feel like this change has been well thought out by the club at all, and they're pushing through a poorly considered change without even discussing it with season ticket holders and members that will be most effected. I do think the club really need to open this up to all season ticket holders and members for their thoughts on where to move the away fans. Clearly it would be easier and more effective to make the top half of chapel as standing - and not have to move the away fans at all. Or, if the club are intent on moving the away fans (which i do support if done well), move them to the Kingsland Northam corner? Not everything is totally set in stone though, the club have opened the doors for fans to have a debate and discuss their opinions/thoughts on how best to approach it. They're welcoming suggestions. What I will say though is that there is simply no other alternative location to put the away fans. You mention Kingsland next to the Northam - very tricky to police. How do you funnel the away fans out of the stadium and keep them segregated? Either side of them are home fans. The current position allows for clean segregation and a quick exit to the main roads and coaches, moving them to the Kingsland would lock the away fans in. It would be a nightmare to police and would cost far more to organise. The only place you can really relocate the away fans, if you are going to relocate the away fans, is to the Chapel corner (family enclosure). 1) It already has a concourse dedicated to 2 or 3 turnstiles. 2) It's located next to a stadium exit path through the industrial estates and a coach parking location. You can easily funnel the away fans in and out of the stadium without crossing the home ends, much easier to police in the 'higher profile' games. So firstly I don't think the club have just pushed ahead with this without asking for opinions - they are doing just that if you read the article. and secondly the fact is that in terms of away fan positioning there is simply no other viable location for them. Edited January 16 by S-Clarke 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 are the focus group the same people as the Saints voice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 1 minute ago, Turkish said: are the focus group the same people as the Saints voice? Anyone can apply, there as a link on an email they sent to season ticket holders earlier. Personally I'm going to apply so I can ask about important things like the beer prices. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 (edited) 20 minutes ago, S-Clarke said: Not everything is totally set in stone though, the club have opened the doors for fans to have a debate and discuss their opinions/thoughts on how best to approach it. They're welcoming suggestions. What I will say though is that there is simply no other alternative location to put the away fans. You mention Kingsland next to the Northam - very tricky to police. How do you funnel the away fans out of the stadium and keep them segregated? Either side of them are home fans. The current position allows for clean segregation and a quick exit to the main roads and coaches, moving them to the Kingsland would lock the away fans in. It would be a nightmare to police and would cost far more to organise. The only place you can really relocate the away fans, if you are going to relate the away fans, is to the Chapel corner (family enclosure). 1) It already has a concourse dedicated to 2 or 3 turnstiles. 2) It's located next to a stadium exit path through the industrial estates and a coach parking location. You can easily funnel the away fans in and out of the stadium without crossing the home ends, much easier to police in the 'higher profile' games. So firstly I don't think the club have just pushed ahead with this without asking for opinions - they are doing just that if you read the article. The fact is that in terms of away fan positioning there is simply no other viable location for them. Fair point re kingsland corner and access. In some ways itchen corner would work better if not for the corporate boxes. Re discussions, we'll see if they actually listen, i have my doubts as with most consultations like this the decision is made long before it is ever shared. I think if anything, they mixed up having a "home end" and safe standing, with moving the away fans. Reality is that moving the away fans seems like a seperate issue and there is no material difference between keeping them where they are, and giving them effectively the opposite seats at the other end of the ground. Either the club just install safe standing in chapel end in a "build it and they will come" approach to a "home end". Or do likewise at the top of northam and accept that the most vocal fans will just follow the away fans. Edited January 16 by Saint86 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 20 minutes ago, Turkish said: 30 laughs, not sure about likes 24 now plus another post on the same thread with 9 lols, Cant be many that can top that. Not even Guided Missile’s Brexit musings top that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 3 minutes ago, The Cat said: Anyone can apply, there as a link on an email they sent to season ticket holders earlier. Personally I'm going to apply so I can ask about important things like the beer prices. People like you should be on it Cat. I fear it will be full of absolute twats taking themselves too seriously 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 2 minutes ago, whelk said: People like you should be on it Cat. I fear it will be full of absolute twats taking themselves too seriously Exactly. The email I got seemed to mention a little more about the type of person they don't want. Surprised no one else has posted this yet. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iansums Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 (edited) 2 hours ago, Convict Colony said: 23 likes currently, whats your record at the moment ? I’ve never seen a thread like this before where I’ve agreed with virtually every post from Turkish. It makes me feel a little grubby to be honest. Edited January 16 by iansums Typo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 33 minutes ago, Saint86 said: Another issue is ofc that policing is far trickier for getting troublesome away fans to and from SMS from the chapel stand. Given its an unnecessary change in the first place. 🤦♂️ There is no way this would have got this far without already having buy-in from the police. They are and always have been the reason for where the away fans are located. The Kings land/Chapel corner is the only viable option and will allow for the simple entry and exit of away coaches, although it will mean some disruption to the routes Home fans take into the ground, i.e. those coming from St Mary's and docks, who will presumably be diverted down Britannia Road. No doubt in my mind that the police have already been consulted and are on board. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scummer Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 24 minutes ago, Saint86 said: Reality is that moving the away fans seems like a seperate issue and there is no material difference between keeping them where they are, and giving them effectively the opposite seats at the other end of the ground. It's not necessarily the same seats at the other end of the ground though is it? If you move them to where the family section is now you can wrap them round the corner, stopping the situation we have now where the away fans have an 'end'. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Who? Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Very overdue, should have been done years ago. It is a bit like when the club gave the away fans the Archers Road end 🤦🏻♂️ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 13 minutes ago, VectisSaint said: There is no way this would have got this far without already having buy-in from the police. They are and always have been the reason for where the away fans are located. The Kings land/Chapel corner is the only viable option and will allow for the simple entry and exit of away coaches, although it will mean some disruption to the routes Home fans take into the ground, i.e. those coming from St Mary's and docks, who will presumably be diverted down Britannia Road. No doubt in my mind that the police have already been consulted and are on board. The new head of security is ex police. Absolutely no doubt they've spoken about it. The whole idea wouldn't have been mentioned if they hadn't already had the nod. Away fans will go out through the industrial estate. Probably those most affected are the fans who sit Kingsland centre and want to walk back towards Ocean Village and will now have to walk all the way around the ground. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sad saints fan Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 As far as walking away from the ground after the match,I dont see where the coaches park will make any difference. I am in Itchen North and usually drink in the Northam club before and after each game and walk past all the away coaches . So if they are parked up in the industrial estate behind Chapel what is different? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulSaint Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 There's quite a good report about safe standing on this Sky Sports page - https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12645509/safe-standing-areas-allowed-for-2022-23-season-what-can-the-fans-expect-sky-sports-news-geraint-hughes-answers-the-key-questions Picture of Old Trafford Safe Standing Area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceandfriendly Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) Can envisage the singers moving to the top of the Northam where the safe standing section is, and the lower half just becoming another Kingsland/Itchen full of quieter folk who wish to sit and watch in peace. Then as somebody mentioned, being spread out like at Wolves away can prove impossible to create a decent atmosphere. Having all the Northam singers compacted into a couple blocks on top of one another (ooh err) creates a pretty decent amount of noise as is. That combined with the fact that many people do wish to sit near the away fans (not myself personally but it's definitely a thing) could lead to a dispersed atmosphere. Remember when SMS was opening, all the discussion was about where the "new Archers" was going to be. It was agreed to be the Northam because it was situated near the away fans. Even the Archers end was right next to the away section. People just like being near the enemy. Hope this is well thought through, may end up having the opposite effect than intended. Edited January 17 by niceandfriendly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAlehouseBrawlers Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 2 hours ago, niceandfriendly said: Can envisage the singers moving to the top of the Northam where the safe standing section is, and the lower half just becoming another Kingsland/Itchen full of quieter folk who wish to sit and watch in peace. Then as somebody mentioned, being spread out like at Wolves away can prove impossible to create a decent atmosphere. Having all the Northam singers compacted into a couple blocks on top of one another (ooh err) creates a pretty decent amount of noise as is. I think you're right with that possible scenario, the acoustics are rubbish in St Mary's for atmosphere spreading around the ground. I've had season tickets in different stands over the years, the noise is OK if you're directly in front* of the 'singers' but when we had seats in the Northam/Kingsland corner a number of years back, you just couldn't hear the away fans and was often surprised to hear later that they were far noisier than the Northam crowd. And, tbh, the Northam hasn't created a "decent amount of noise" for quite a few years now, it's nothing like the early days. *and that's probably a factor in this decision now as our manager/bench cop the full volume of the away section which must be hard to stomach when it drowns out most of the home support. SR are likely hitting their heads against a wall thinking they're repairing a bit of damage and giving the (which have been) disgruntled fans something in return but now seeing plenty pissing on the idea. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamplemousse Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 I think the whole Northam should be safe standing tbh. In any case I think the introduction of that will keep most people there. If people do move to be near to the away fans than I don't think it hurts if we have two noisy ends at opposite ends of the grounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 54 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said: I think the whole Northam should be safe standing tbh. In any case I think the introduction of that will keep most people there. If people do move to be near to the away fans than I don't think it hurts if we have two noisy ends at opposite ends of the grounds There's a pretty sizeable chunk at the front of the northam who do prefer to sit though. People that want to get involved in the chanting but can't manage to stand up for too long anymore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAlehouseBrawlers Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 54 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said: I think the whole Northam should be safe standing tbh. In any case I think the introduction of that will keep most people there. If people do move to be near to the away fans than I don't think it hurts if we have two noisy ends at opposite ends of the grounds As I understand it, it’s limited and clubs can only make a percentage of the ground safe-standing which rules out making the entire Northam rail-seating. They have to also provide aways with a percentage. I reckon they’ll now be far stricter enforcing no standing in seated areas so will lessen the appeal to move to be next to any new visitors area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssEffCee Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 hour ago, Pamplemousse said: I think the whole Northam should be safe standing tbh. In any case I think the introduction of that will keep most people there. If people do move to be near to the away fans than I don't think it hurts if we have two noisy ends at opposite ends of the grounds Don't think we'd be allowed to convert the whole end. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurosaint Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 12 hours ago, The Cat said: The new head of security is ex police. Absolutely no doubt they've spoken about it. The whole idea wouldn't have been mentioned if they hadn't already had the nod. Away fans will go out through the industrial estate. Probably those most affected are the fans who sit Kingsland centre and want to walk back towards Ocean Village and will now have to walk all the way around the ground. This would be a major issue as it includes all ferry passengers (mainly IoW but also Hythe) plus all of those who park on that side of the ground. I'm guessing that we are looking at hundreds of home supporters who would be highly inconvenienced. Relocating the buses will also be a problem IMO. I hope that the club consider this carefully before introducing the changes ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamplemousse Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 20 minutes ago, TheAlehouseBrawlers said: As I understand it, it’s limited and clubs can only make a percentage of the ground safe-standing which rules out making the entire Northam rail-seating. They have to also provide aways with a percentage. I reckon they’ll now be far stricter enforcing no standing in seated areas so will lessen the appeal to move to be next to any new visitors area. Ah OK fair enough, that makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suewhistle Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 12 hours ago, sad saints fan said: As far as walking away from the ground after the match,I dont see where the coaches park will make any difference. I am in Itchen North and usually drink in the Northam club before and after each game and walk past all the away coaches . So if they are parked up in the industrial estate behind Chapel what is different? Yes, that's what I do too, whether heading for Central Station or St Denys/Bevois Valley. I can only recall once when home fans were not permitted to transit using that route and I had to use Belvidere Road and then back ways, which was a pain. Can't remember the game but one of the teams with a big following of unpleasant fans, possibly Chelsea. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 31 minutes ago, eurosaint said: This would be a major issue as it includes all ferry passengers (mainly IoW but also Hythe) plus all of those who park on that side of the ground. I'm guessing that we are looking at hundreds of home supporters who would be highly inconvenienced. Relocating the buses will also be a problem IMO. I hope that the club consider this carefully before introducing the changes ! Don't think it will make much if any difference. Having the away supporters exiting via Melbourne St and their coaches parked there won't preclude home supporters using that road to get back to Docks/Chapel/Ocean Village etc. I used to frequently exit past the buses in Britannia Road, we weren't usually diverted away from the area, maybe for high risk matches, but we don't play the Skates very often. There are for sure a relatively small number of people who might choose to go round the stadium and down Marine Parade to avoid mingling with the visitors, but in the end if they feel that is a big problem they have the option to relocate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 15 hours ago, Turkish said: 30 laughs, not sure about likes 24 now plus another post on the same thread with 9 lols, Cant be many that can top that. Saintsweb Certificate of Achievement The members of Saintsweb are pleased to present this certificate to recognise your lifetime achievement. This has been awarded for gaining 30 likes of laughing emojis on a single post. The only other recipients of this award also for other worthless inputs, have been Alpine Saint, and Corp Ho, This certificate should not be confused with the certificates given to citizens who have pulled people out of burning houses or saved children from drowning, but a fairer comparison is for outstanding reading out loud during bible readings or a yellow braid after learning to swim a few strokes. Hereby I, the approved fellow of Saintsweb has been asked to present this certificate to Turkish CoT, RAC, C&A and hope this will give him encouragement for further feats, and lift his esteem further. Keep up the good work Please print off and frame. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssEffCee Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 2 hours ago, TheAlehouseBrawlers said: As I understand it, it’s limited and clubs can only make a percentage of the ground safe-standing which rules out making the entire Northam rail-seating. They have to also provide aways with a percentage. I reckon they’ll now be far stricter enforcing no standing in seated areas so will lessen the appeal to move to be next to any new visitors area. Not considered that point about sitting being enforced in other areas. It's a good one though and makes you wonder if it'll have the opposite to the intended effect in the Northam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franniesTache Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 23 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said: You miserable git 🤣 I've been with my son in the family corner for many matches this season, have enjoyed it a lot actually, a very different and pleasant experience being sober and away from the other end of the ground. I actually took one of my son's friends to a match too and what I noticed is that they both like the fan zone, they both liked the band, they love the goal music and many other things I would've classified as 'noddy' in years gone by. Granted that's a sample of 2x 9 year olds, BUT, that is the future customer base. Personally, I actually like all the street stalls behind the Kingsland too, much better at that side of the ground now. I'm all for a better home end for those that want to go there and the safe standing will be good too. My only question is why can't the away fans be moved to blocks 1-4 in that corner? Little change required for policing/coaches, family corner is still the opposite side as well, less changes required and the Northam is still next to the away fans for the melts wanting to do cut throat gestures and then run away after the match ends. Funnily enough it's not the stuff like the band that i find noddy (i actually really like the band as they remind me of the Albion band days). I mean i do hate the goal music but i'm not the target audience there. When i talk about noddy i mean the zebedee like, drunk on dark fruits, singing about pompey and stealing man city songs ones you get in the Northam. The kind of people who think football culture is tik toks and wearing your 'Spoons breakfast down the front of your replica shirt, or throwing over priced beer around in the concourse and thinking that's an "edgy" atmosphere. It's those people that make me want to be nowhere bloody near the Northam end (and ironically those lot that moved from the Northam to block 1/2 of the itchen that made us move out of block 1/2. I also think that's the bit that the club have completely missed, they think because people want to make noise then they all want to be together. Which is like saying because Mr Blobby released a single he's the same as Stevie Wonder. 16 hours ago, Turkish said: are the focus group the same people as the Saints voice? The focus group won't make a difference to be honest 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintsLoyal Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Nothing wrong with the present arrangement, its become a tiresome subject that isnt going to create, what the very small minority of fans are expecting. If i was the council licence officer, i would want to see a significant study taking place with all season ticket holders inside stmarys on what direction they mostly arrive and depart st marys. Who wants this wifi ? btw, are you not there to watch a football match ? i hope its not active during games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 What is the most important thing Tke away the opposition advantage/evening out our home support or worries about Pompey songs. Once we get a big mix of support at oe end perhps others will sing songs that are different and they all will join in. Go to the Chapel and see tht the Northam cant be heard when the oppo have a good following. Once we have a true end it will start to give us a proper noise to help bring points home 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franniesTache Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 31 minutes ago, OldNick said: What is the most important thing Tke away the opposition advantage/evening out our home support or worries about Pompey songs. Once we get a big mix of support at oe end perhps others will sing songs that are different and they all will join in. Go to the Chapel and see tht the Northam cant be heard when the oppo have a good following. Once we have a true end it will start to give us a proper noise to help bring points home Except that's not true, take a look at away games, they're pretty much unbearable because of our dinlow element. Every other song is a song about the skates or libraries, everything is sung at half a million miles an hour, people force "limbs" so they can film them and share them on social media. I know plenty of decent old school saints who are on the cusp of giving up away games because the happy bus lot make it so bad. Now i know part of that is me being old, you can't escape that, but the fact we have a split between Itchen North and Northam currently gives me a choice at home games of avoiding the worst parts of that. To think that some of us will move over because we want to make noise is completely missing the point of why we are where we are in the first place. Most of the people I talk to have absolutely no desire of standing with the fans in the Northam, because we don't really like them. More power to those nippers for doing their thing, and it's great that they've got a place to do it, but don't act like it's a place many of us want to be, and don't be so naive as to think we'll suddenly magic another 3k people who want to be there either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssEffCee Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 40 minutes ago, OldNick said: What is the most important thing Tke away the opposition advantage/evening out our home support or worries about Pompey songs. Once we get a big mix of support at oe end perhps others will sing songs that are different and they all will join in. Go to the Chapel and see tht the Northam cant be heard when the oppo have a good following. Once we have a true end it will start to give us a proper noise to help bring points home That's the theory. Whether or not it's true remains to be seen. I'm personally very doubtful it'll make much difference but we'll soon find out I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wurzel Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Re moving of the away fans. IIRC a big residential development is planned for the old gas works site on the Britannia/Northam Rd corner. I'm sure it's just coincidence that council/police are suddenly a bit more amenable to away fans and thier coaches being moved to the industrial estate end of the ground. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 21 minutes ago, franniesTache said: Except that's not true, take a look at away games, they're pretty much unbearable because of our dinlow element. Every other song is a song about the skates or libraries, everything is sung at half a million miles an hour, people force "limbs" so they can film them and share them on social media. I know plenty of decent old school saints who are on the cusp of giving up away games because the happy bus lot make it so bad. Now i know part of that is me being old, you can't escape that, but the fact we have a split between Itchen North and Northam currently gives me a choice at home games of avoiding the worst parts of that. To think that some of us will move over because we want to make noise is completely missing the point of why we are where we are in the first place. Most of the people I talk to have absolutely no desire of standing with the fans in the Northam, because we don't really like them. More power to those nippers for doing their thing, and it's great that they've got a place to do it, but don't act like it's a place many of us want to be, and don't be so naive as to think we'll suddenly magic another 3k people who want to be there either. Oh come on, when we were nipper snappers and went to the Milton/Archers/ Under west stand do you not think that the older generation thought the same. Christ we used to sing about hitting them on the head with a baseball bat ffs. Having the opportunity for the young fans having an end, the experience of a wall of fans for the players to enjoy celebrating at and generally make life harder for the opposition is not a good thing? Dont be so negative about something that will improve the game experience for the younger generations coming through. The club are not saying you have to stand/sit there. If you dont wish to you can sit in the Chapel etc. I yearn for us to have a full stadium experience that can boost the players and intimidate the opponent, plus make it a lively atmosphere 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordic Saint Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) The same few people who always moan about our support are now moaning about the club's plans to improve our support. I guess there's no pleasing some people. Fortunately, judging from the majority of posts and their likes on here, most Saints fans are very happy with the proposed developments. A good acid test would be to ask what Pompey fans would think of the plans. I'm pretty sure they'd be very much against the idea of us having a proper home end, with our most vocal fans united in large group behind the goal, while away fans are tucked away in a corner where they can have the least influence on a game. Edited January 17 by Nordic Saint 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franniesTache Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 34 minutes ago, OldNick said: Oh come on, when we were nipper snappers and went to the Milton/Archers/ Under west stand do you not think that the older generation thought the same. Christ we used to sing about hitting them on the head with a baseball bat ffs. Having the opportunity for the young fans having an end, the experience of a wall of fans for the players to enjoy celebrating at and generally make life harder for the opposition is not a good thing? Dont be so negative about something that will improve the game experience for the younger generations coming through. The club are not saying you have to stand/sit there. If you dont wish to you can sit in the Chapel etc. I yearn for us to have a full stadium experience that can boost the players and intimidate the opponent, plus make it a lively atmosphere You seem to be massively missing the point here, i haven't said i'm against it, i've said i have no interest in moving over to it. In fact I also said that it's good for the kids to have their own area. What i'm skeptical of is people saying "well the itchen north will link up with the northam", I don't think that's true, my point was that a lot of us don't want to go to the northam (kop or not) because they don't really like the people in the northam. Which then begs the question, where are these extra 3k people coming from? The Itchen north probably doesn't hold much more than 800 people, and a lot don't want to move so not there. The kingsland north is less than 500. Back of the chapel? God knows in the 20's at most. So what's that leaved? Displaced from the chapel blocks the away fans move to? Kingsland/Chapel who don't want to be by the away fans? That's where i think the idea that we'll suddenly have a big wall of noise falls down. I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up with a thin spread of "noise" across the safe standing at the back, then a quieter front few rows of people sitting. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gio1saints Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) 46 minutes ago, OldNick said: Oh come on, when we were nipper snappers and went to the Milton/Archers/ Under west stand do you not think that the older generation thought the same. Christ we used to sing about hitting them on the head with a baseball bat ffs. Ah those happy happy joyful and innocent times when Dell attendees up the Archers could sing “ you’re going home in a Hampshire ambulance “ or as a contrast but in the same vein : “ you’re gonna get your f@ckin heads kicked in” at full blast, gleefully, playfully, menacingly. indeed the Dell song sheets were long and glorious back then. Who could forget “Hullo, Hullo, Southampton Aggro Southampton Aggro hullo” or “ get into them” - a short but sweet ode revered as a comfort and joy bringer to the boot boys on the terraces. Ah halcyon times. Footballs got far too violent these days😂 Edited January 17 by gio1saints 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osvaldorama Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 9 minutes ago, franniesTache said: You seem to be massively missing the point here, i haven't said i'm against it, i've said i have no interest in moving over to it. In fact I also said that it's good for the kids to have their own area. What i'm skeptical of is people saying "well the itchen north will link up with the northam", I don't think that's true, my point was that a lot of us don't want to go to the northam (kop or not) because they don't really like the people in the northam. Which then begs the question, where are these extra 3k people coming from? The Itchen north probably doesn't hold much more than 800 people, and a lot don't want to move so not there. The kingsland north is less than 500. Back of the chapel? God knows in the 20's at most. So what's that leaved? Displaced from the chapel blocks the away fans move to? Kingsland/Chapel who don't want to be by the away fans? That's where i think the idea that we'll suddenly have a big wall of noise falls down. I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up with a thin spread of "noise" across the safe standing at the back, then a quieter front few rows of people sitting. If you introduce a standing section, you introduce cheaper prices. If you introduce cheaper prices, you attract more, young fans. It’s not rocket science mate. I’m not sure why you and a few others are being so negative. It’s worth a try to improve the home atmosphere. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) 1 hour ago, franniesTache said: You seem to be massively missing the point here, i haven't said i'm against it, i've said i have no interest in moving over to it. In fact I also said that it's good for the kids to have their own area. What i'm skeptical of is people saying "well the itchen north will link up with the northam", I don't think that's true, my point was that a lot of us don't want to go to the northam (kop or not) because they don't really like the people in the northam. Which then begs the question, where are these extra 3k people coming from? The Itchen north probably doesn't hold much more than 800 people, and a lot don't want to move so not there. The kingsland north is less than 500. Back of the chapel? God knows in the 20's at most. So what's that leaved? Displaced from the chapel blocks the away fans move to? Kingsland/Chapel who don't want to be by the away fans? That's where i think the idea that we'll suddenly have a big wall of noise falls down. I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up with a thin spread of "noise" across the safe standing at the back, then a quieter front few rows of people sitting. Im not missing the point. You dont want to move there as you dont like the people. That's fine by me, as I said before Im sure the older generation didnt like your type when you were young. Its horses for courses. I suggest the extra 3 k will come from all parts of the ground , there will be a certain inquisitiveness from younger fans who want to see what its about and perhaps we may get a fair few new fans. IMO it is a massive plus and whilst I dont require beer in the ground I dont worry if it is there, I dont go moaning on about it. I have been going since 68 and never seen a proper end since the Milton, and perhaps Archers bike shed. We have always it seems to have splintered rowdy support. West Stand tunnel end, West stand scoreboard and under the East stand. I really want to see in my lifetime a real Saints home end, not a divided in 2 section, with the away fans nullifying our support and in turn not creating an atmosphere that helps drive on our team. Stay where you are, thats really fine by me. I do understand you not wanting to stand in or around the wannabees but you will find that they will be in the centre and the side parts will have the more restrained but very much vocal support. Edited January 17 by OldNick 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordic Saint Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) 44 minutes ago, OldNick said: Im not missing the point. You dont want to move there as you dont like the people. That's fine by me, as I said before Im sure the older generation didnt like your type when you were young. Its horses for courses. I suggest the extra 3 k will come from all parts of the ground , there will be a certain inquisitiveness from younger fans who want to see what its about and perhaps we may get a fair few new fans. IMO it is a massive plus and whilst I dont require beer in the ground I dont worry if it is there, I dont go moaning on about it. I have been going since 68 and never seen a proper end since the Milton, and perhaps Archers bike shed. We have always it seems to have splintered rowdy support. West Stand tunnel end, West stand scoreboard and under the East stand. I really want to see in my lifetime a real Saints home end, not a divided in 2 section, with the away fans nullifying our support and in turn not creating an atmosphere that helps drive on our team. Stay where you are, thats really fine by me. I do understand you not wanting to stand in or around the wannabees but you will find that they will be in the centre and the side parts will have the more restrained but very much vocal support. I started standing under the chocolate boxes at the back of the Milton with Dougal and his mob in the mid-60s. We dreamed of having a proper covered end like most other clubs had, because a metal roof amplified the noise so much more. That desire for a covered stand was what eventually led to the first move to under the West Stand. I was living abroad when the roof was put over the Archers and we briefly had the setup for a half-decent home end so I missed out on that. But, when the dream of the '60s and 70s looked like it was finally going to be realized and we got a big covered end to sing under at St Mary's, imagine our dismay to see our most vocal young fans hide themselves away in the corners of the away end. Hopefully, these new developments from the club will put that right and we'll have the proper home end we always dreamed of. As for filling a home end with singers, it will be the way proper home ends have always been. The most hardcore fans, who sing the most, will be in the centre, directly behind the goal, and at times the singing will spread out to the sides. It's that central faction behind the goal which acts as a catalyst for the fans around them. You don't get the same effect when they are hidden away in a corner, where the sound is muffled. If you go the stadiums around the world with the best atmospheres, like those in Italy and South America, you will find that they nearly all have their noisiest fans behind the goal in a home end and the away fans tucked away in a corner or occasionally in an upper tier at the other end. The best atmosphere I've been in was at Boca Juniors' La Bombonera and that's exactly their setup. Their fans wouldn't dream of letting away fans anywhere near their beloved home end. I really hope a few nimbys don't spoil this really positive move by the club to improve our atmosphere and give us a home end to be proud of. Edited January 17 by Nordic Saint 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssEffCee Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 hour ago, Osvaldorama said: If you introduce a standing section, you introduce cheaper prices. If you introduce cheaper prices, you attract more, young fans. It’s not rocket science mate. I’m not sure why you and a few others are being so negative. It’s worth a try to improve the home atmosphere. Have they said it'll be cheaper prices? Seems like an assumption based on nothing to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 As far as I can tell, this is the first real effort Saints have made in 23 years of SMS to do something that might actually improve the atmosphere/experience for home fans! The much quoted 'there's nothing we can do about the location of away fans' line was either bollocks or something has changed re: the police etc. Far too long we've given the away team a huge boost of vocal support near/behind the goal and always captured by the TV pictures. I've got a recurring nightmare of away fans celebrating another late equaliser/winner at that bloody end. I think it will be down to Saints fans to get behind this and try to get vocal types moving here and make this a proper end. I never felt the Milton was much of an end, the Bikeshed Archers was as good as it got and I felt made a big difference at times, especially in some crucial relegation battles. The ends at SMS have never really worked out properly, so this has to be worth a go. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 As far as I can tell, this is the first real effort Saints have made in 23 years of SMS to do something that might actually improve the atmosphere/experience for home fans! The much quoted 'there's nothing we can do about the location of away fans' line was either bollocks or something has changed re: the police etc. Far too long we've given the away team a huge boost of vocal support near/behind the goal and always captured by the TV pictures. I've got a recurring nightmare of away fans celebrating another late equaliser/winner at that bloody end. I think it will be down to Saints fans to get behind this and try to get vocal types moving here and make this a proper end. I never felt the Milton was much of an end, the Bikeshed Archers was as good as it got and I felt made a big difference at times, especially in some crucial relegation battles. The ends at SMS have never really worked out properly, so this has to be worth a go. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyNumber7 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 4 hours ago, franniesTache said: You seem to be massively missing the point here, i haven't said i'm against it, i've said i have no interest in moving over to it. In fact I also said that it's good for the kids to have their own area. What i'm skeptical of is people saying "well the itchen north will link up with the northam", I don't think that's true, my point was that a lot of us don't want to go to the northam (kop or not) because they don't really like the people in the northam. Which then begs the question, where are these extra 3k people coming from? The Itchen north probably doesn't hold much more than 800 people, and a lot don't want to move so not there. The kingsland north is less than 500. Back of the chapel? God knows in the 20's at most. So what's that leaved? Displaced from the chapel blocks the away fans move to? Kingsland/Chapel who don't want to be by the away fans? That's where i think the idea that we'll suddenly have a big wall of noise falls down. I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up with a thin spread of "noise" across the safe standing at the back, then a quieter front few rows of people sitting. I get what you're saying, and agree to a certain extent that some of those in the Northam are annoying with their 100mph clapping etc. But I think the Itchen North can still keep going as is if the people there want to stay there and it can co-exist with the Northam. As with anything, some will moan and some just don't like change, but I think the majority are really happy with this change and have been wanting it for a long time. I hope/suspect there are quite a few fans dotted around the ground who would like to be more vocal but feel out of place singing in the quieter parts of the ground, and also some who don't go much due to cost/crap atmosphere etc who will find this very appealing. Let's be frank, the atmosphere has been depressingly bad for a long time now, even this season with us doing well. The whole fan experience/atmosphere needs a shakeup and while I don't expect expect us to become prime Galatasaray overnight, I think it's an important development for the future of SMS to give it some soul, and should have happened years ago. I'm tired of the away fans dominating the atmosphere. Ultimately whether it works is down to the fans which is why it's disappointing to see some negative comments, but I think they are the minority and no one is being forced to sit/stand there. We also need some new and decent songs but hopefully this change will make it easier for those to gain traction. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 We all moved out of Block 42 a couple of years back as got fed up being surrounded by spotty oiks. That did tie in with all of us being the wrong side of 30 also, and finding the ‘bantz’ increasingly fucking tedious. I commend the club for at least trying, but this sounds like utter hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulwantsapint81 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 The northam suffered from fluctuating away allocations & saints not compressing them into a corner & then having gaps It’s a shame the kingsland/northam corner is unsuitable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpsaint Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 On 16/01/2024 at 14:14, EssEffCee said: I suspect they'd block off the footbridge side and make them go through the industrial estate. Don't see a suitable route to escort say 3k Pompey fans going that way though. Was thinking this, would they block off the back of the kingsland say where the gasworks bar is, and then send all away fans through the industrial estate and right up St Mary’s street to join the Saints fans at the junction with Northam Road? Guessing extra police presence required there and along St Mary’s street to prevent organised trouble down the side roads. Also I’m guessing the opening hours of some of the businesses in the industrial estate might cause a few headaches if access is required on match day and there’s coaches everywhere. Would it be easier for the club to sacrifice a few corporate boxes and give away fans blocks 46-48 of the Northam and 1-3 of the Itchen so we get the majority of the Northam? (Not sure how many boxes are in use currently) Cup allocations can spread into blocks 44 and 45 without us having to give the rest of the Northam up and the segregation is already in place for that below stand. On 16/01/2024 at 18:13, S-Clarke said: Will need some work in the Northam though to create a stand-wide concourse - long overdue though, nice to see there is money for things like this and stadium improvements. It’s already the whole length of the Northam isn’t it? Just divided by metal roller shutters at various points. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 2 hours ago, LuckyNumber7 said: I hope/suspect there are quite a few fans dotted around the ground who would like to be more vocal but feel out of place singing in the quieter parts of the ground This is just complete nonsense, if you want to be in the more vocal parts of the ground or shout at the away fans you just buy a ticket in those areas. That will be the same regardless of where the away fans are, moving them will make no difference whatsoever. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhitey Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Cheaper tickets ? not a chance 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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