St Mary's Stadium

[Matthew Le God]

2 minutes ago, saintant said:

Ok, let's agree to disagree on this one. You'll not convince me and vice versa.

I might if you directly responded to the points and questions I've asked rather than manoeuvring around them or outright avoiding them!

[Matthew Le God]

13 minutes ago, saintant said:

Why wasn't there a case a few years ago when we had good seasons under Pochettino, Koeman and Ralph and were regularly selling out.

Selling out season tickets like we have now, but didn't back then might be a factor in  @Lighthouse point.

Edited 14 December, 2024 by Matthew Le God

[Lighthouse]

6 minutes ago, saintant said:

Why wasn't there a case a few years ago when we had good seasons under Pochettino, Koeman and Ralph and were regularly selling out.

I’m not saying there wasn’t but there’s a big step needed from there simply being a business case to someone actually putting it into action. if the last few years have shown us anything it’s that our attendances are robust enough to withstand some sustained periods of poor football and relegation to the Championship.

People who own football clubs won’t make short term, rash decisions based on volatile indicators like current form or league position. Decisions will be made on long term investment returns and the increased asset value of a larger stadium.

[Matthew Le God]

2 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I’m not saying there wasn’t but there’s a big step needed from there simply being a business case to someone actually putting it into action. if the last few years have shown us anything it’s that our attendances are robust enough to withstand some sustained periods of poor football and relegation to the Championship.

People who own football clubs won’t make short term, rash decisions based on volatile indicators like current form or league position. Decisions will be made on long term investment returns and the increased asset value of a larger stadium.

Another potential factor is if we see a significant development around the stadium and along the riverside, plus an increase in capacity it potentially changes the perception of the club to supporters, the media, future owners, current and future players, potential sponsors etc and sets in place a snowball effect. No longer would it be a 32k identikit stadium in the middle of an industrial estate. 

[saintant]

20 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

I might if you directly responded to the points and questions I've asked rather than manoeuvring around them or outright avoiding them!

Well, to enable me to respond maybe you could inform me what you know that I obviously don't - you are clearly privy to details within the club that I am not so if you share these with me I will respond.

[Dark Munster]

10 hours ago, The Left Back said:

I agree relegation is very likely. 3 teams get relegated every season, they’re not doomed. We’ve been relegated 4 times in my tenure, each time we came back. 
 

The volume and level of catastrophising and doom mongering on here goes well beyond relegation and is at odds with a couple of points I think MLG was trying to make. That our ‘real world’ fans keep attending in huge numbers despite the situation we are in and also that this was the same in the Championship last season. I’d also add that the atmosphere in the ground remains very different to the one on this forum. 

Relegation now is infinitely more catastrophic than in Lawrie's time. The gulf in revenue now is astronomic. Yes parachute payments are a short term bandage, but you still lose your best players when you go down, and if you don't bounce straight back up you end up like Stoke and Swansea, or worse (as what happened to us when we went down with Saggy).

With that disastrous fraud Ankersen in charge our future is looking bleak.

[Matthew Le God]

9 minutes ago, saintant said:

Well, to enable me to respond maybe you could inform me what you know that I obviously don't - you are clearly privy to details within the club that I am not so if you share these with me I will respond.

If you responded to all the counters and questions you've missed/avoided would be a good start.

[saintant]

1 minute ago, Matthew Le God said:

If you responded to all the counters and questions you've missed/avoided would be a good start.

I take that as meaning you don't have any definitive information to share but, because you've heard rumours of some talks or other that the club had with the council that you know nothing about you have decided that we may be extending the ground - tenuous to say the least and I reiterate that, imo, it won't be happening.

[Matthew Le God]

1 minute ago, saintant said:

I take that as meaning you don't have any definitive information to share but, because you've heard rumours of some talks or other that the club had with the council that you know nothing about you have decided that we may be extending the ground - tenuous to say the least and I reiterate that, imo, it won't be happening.

You are avoiding the questions... again

I've not claimed insider knowledge, so not sure why you are trying to pin that on me!

It is not tenuous to think it might happen when the club, city council, CEO, chairman and owner have been in talks and the latter three have publically stated a desire to expand the stadium capacity. 

Edited 14 December, 2024 by Matthew Le God

[saintant]

1 minute ago, Matthew Le God said:

You are avoiding the questions... again

I've not claimed insider knowledge, so not sure why you are trying to pin that on me!

So what, if anything, do you know about a possible stadium expansion? - I'm intrigued.

[Matthew Le God]

12 minutes ago, saintant said:

So what, if anything, do you know about a possible stadium expansion? - I'm intrigued.

1) That the owner, CEO and chairman have all spoken publicly about a desire to expand capacity.

2) That they have been planning for it for a long time.

3) That they are in active discussions with the city council about a wider development that includes expansion of the stadium

4) That selling out season tickets was a trigger mentioned by the board and it has happened this season. Plus selling out every home game in a terrible season is a positive sign the stadium is too small. As doing better will have more demand and we already sell out whilst 20th.

5) That increasing revenue with expanded capacity helps the club spend more under new financial rules

Do you agree or disagree with those 5 points?

Edited 14 December, 2024 by Matthew Le God

[Matthew Le God]

7 minutes ago, saintant said:

So what, if anything, do you know about a possible stadium expansion? - I'm intrigued.

Still avoiding!

[saintant]

6 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

1) That the owner, CEO and chairman have all spoken publicly about a desire to expand capacity.

2) That they have been planning for it for a long time.

3) That they are in active discussions with the city council about a wider development that includes expansion of the stadium

4) That selling out season tickets was a trigger mentioned by the board and it has happened this season

5) That increasing revenue with expanded capacity helps the club spend more under new financial rules

Do you agree or disagree with those 5 points?

1) Talk is cheap - actions speak louder than words.

2) And they'll be planning for it for a long time to come.

3) It's just discussions - doesn't mean it'll happen and my firm belief is it won't.

4) Let's see how many season tickets we shift next season - do you seriously think we'll sell out?

5) This might be a fact but I and I would hazard a guess most other fans would prefer to hear more talk of what is being done to improve the return of 5 points so far this season rather than some PR exercise concerning stadium expansion.

 

[Matthew Le God]

16 minutes ago, saintant said:

1) Talk is cheap - actions speak louder than words.

2) And they'll be planning for it for a long time to come.

3) It's just discussions - doesn't mean it'll happen and my firm belief is it won't.

4) Let's see how many season tickets we shift next season - do you seriously think we'll sell out?

5) This might be a fact but I and I would hazard a guess most other fans would prefer to hear more talk of what is being done to improve the return of 5 points so far this season rather than some PR exercise concerning stadium expansion.

 

1) Talking to the council is an action requited for it to happen!

2) Based on what?

3) Based on what? Plus to dismiss as merely discussion is daft, discussions with the council is a required action to get things to happen!

4) We averaged 29k+ in the Championship. A lit of those empty seats were in the away end when clubs didn't fill it. Why would it be any different next season if relegated?

5) You keep failing to grasp that increasing revenue is a plan to make the team better. Higher turnover allows for more transfer/wage spending under new rules, so it is not a PR exercise,  it is a credible plan to improve the squad and performance on the pitch.

Edited 14 December, 2024 by Matthew Le God

[saintant]

1 minute ago, Matthew Le God said:

1) Talking to the council is an action requited for it to happen!

2) Based on what?

3) Based on what? Plus to dismiss as merely discussion is off, discussions with the council is a required action to get things to happen!

4) We averaged 29k+ in the Championship. A lit of those empty seats were in the away end when clubs didn't fill it. Why would it be any different next season if relegated?

5) You keep failing to grasp that increasing revenue is a plan to make the team better. Higher turnover allows for more transfer/wage spending under new rules, so it is not a PR exercise,  it is a credible plan to improve the squad and performance on the pitch.

On what basis do you say I have failed to grasp something that is obvious - of course I 'grasp' it? Where we differ is that I don't think it will happen and nothing you have stated makes me change this belief.

[Matthew Le God]

5 minutes ago, saintant said:

On what basis do you say I have failed to grasp something that is obvious - of course I 'grasp' it? Where we differ is that I don't think it will happen and nothing you have stated makes me change this belief.

You did not grasp it because you said...

"I would hazard a guess most other fans would prefer to hear more talk of what is being done to improve the return of 5 points so far this season rather than some PR exercise concerning stadium expansion"

Which shows you think stadium expansion wouldn't benefit on field performance. Sure it wouldn't this season, but it would in the future. If you keep putting it off there is never a benefit and we'll fall behind the many clubs that are looking to increase revenue with long term infrastructure projects.

 

 

Edited 14 December, 2024 by Matthew Le God

[saintant]

Just now, Matthew Le God said:

You did not grasp it because you said...

"I would hazard a guess most other fans would prefer to hear more talk of what is being done to improve the return of 5 points so far this season rather than some PR exercise concerning stadium expansion"

Which shows you think stadium expansion wouldn't benefit on field performance. Sure it wouldn't this season, but it would in the future.

 

 

It shows nothing of the sort.

[Matthew Le God]

3 minutes ago, saintant said:

It shows nothing of the sort.

It is possible to both act for this season and have longer term infrastructure plans that you are actively working on. It does not need to be one or the other... it can be both! Hopefully it is both, as they have messed this season up so far!

Edited 14 December, 2024 by Matthew Le God

[Whitey Grandad]

38 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

1) That the owner, CEO and chairman have all spoken publicly about a desire to expand capacity.

2) That they have been planning for it for a long time.

3) That they are in active discussions with the city council about a wider development that includes expansion of the stadium

4) That selling out season tickets was a trigger mentioned by the board and it has happened this season. Plus selling out every home game in a terrible season is a positive sign the stadium is too small. As doing better will have more demand and we already sell out whilst 20th.

5) That increasing revenue with expanded capacity helps the club spend more under new financial rules

Do you agree or disagree with those 5 points?

4)

The vast majority of those season tickets were sold before a ball was kicked. Next season is going to be different. Do not underestimate the disillusionment amongst the previously loyal supporters.

They say that once you give up your season ticket you don't get another. If Martin is still here expect a stampede.

[Whitey Grandad]

7 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

You did not grasp it because you said...

"I would hazard a guess most other fans would prefer to hear more talk of what is being done to improve the return of 5 points so far this season rather than some PR exercise concerning stadium expansion"

Which shows you think stadium expansion wouldn't benefit on field performance. Sure it wouldn't this season, but it would in the future.

 

 

How many Sulemanas would this extra income buy?

[Matthew Le God]

12 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

4)

The vast majority of those season tickets were sold before a ball was kicked. Next season is going to be different. Do not underestimate the disillusionment amongst the previously loyal supporters.

They say that once you give up your season ticket you don't get another. If Martin is still here expect a stampede.

Do you not think season ticket holders were expecting a relegation scrap this season? Sure not as poor as it has been, but still they purchased those tickets knowing we'd lose a lot of games!

If we do go down, we'll be in the top 3 for favourites to go back up. We'll be winning regularly. So why wouldn't that bring the 29k+ average like we had last season?

Edited 15 December, 2024 by Matthew Le God

[saintant]

1 minute ago, Matthew Le God said:

It is possible to both act for this season and have longer term infrastructure plans that you are actively working on. It does not need to be one or the other... it can be both!

Just to be clear I get that a stadium expansion could mean more revenue which might help improve the team - then again it might not because we have seen vast amounts wasted. I'm not against a stadium expansion but, even if it's been long in the planning, I don't think now is the time and I don't think it will happen. Happy to be proved wrong but I don't think I will be. I'd rather hear from the club what plans they have to halt the current freefall on the playing field - that should be the priority yet we hear nothing. 

[saintant]

3 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Do you not think season ticket holders were expecting a relegation scrap this season? Sure not a poor as it has been, but still they purcgased those tickets knowing we'd lose a lot of games!

If we do go down, we'll be in the top 3 for favourites to go back up. We'll be winning regularly. So why wouldn't that bring the 29k+ average like we had last season?

How do you know this?

[Matthew Le God]

2 minutes ago, saintant said:

How do you know this?

Basing it on having a squad packed full of players that will stand out in the Championship. 

[Whitey Grandad]

2 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Basing it on having a squad packed full of players that will stand out in the Championship. 

Like Burnley, Derby, and all those other clubs who have been relegated never to rise again?

[Whitey Grandad]

10 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Do you not think season ticket holders were expecting a relegation scrap this season? Sure not a poor as it has been, but still they purchased those tickets knowing we'd lose a lot of games!

If we do go down, we'll be in the top 3 for favourites to go back up. We'll be winning regularly. So why wouldn't that bring the 29k+ average like we had last season?

Like most I was expecting a scrap. I wasn't expecting a feeble capitulation.

What makes you think "we'll be winning regularly"? There are plenty of other clubs in the Championship who will have a say in that.

[saintant]

3 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Basing it on having a squad packed full of players that will stand out in the Championship. 

But how are you comparing our squad to other teams bearing in mind you don't know who will be promoted/relegated between this season's Premier League and Championship nor do you have any idea what transfer business will be done or which key players might suffer long term injuries.

[Matthew Le God]

16 minutes ago, saintant said:

Just to be clear I get that a stadium expansion could mean more revenue which might help improve the team - then again it might not because we have seen vast amounts wasted. I'm not against a stadium expansion but, even if it's been long in the planning, I don't think now is the time and I don't think it will happen. Happy to be proved wrong but I don't think I will be. I'd rather hear from the club what plans they have to halt the current freefall on the playing field - that should be the priority yet we hear nothing. 

If not now... then when? Long term infrastructure projects shouldn't be based on fluctuations between leagues. 

What exactly do you want them to tell you regarding their plans this season that it would be worthwhile them disclosing publically?

Edited 14 December, 2024 by Matthew Le God

[Lighthouse]

You guys are getting a bit sidetracked here. Saints are a top of the Championship and bottom half of the PL sized club. We've shown over the last few years that we can sell out St Mary's consistently in both leagues. Talking about this seasons form is like saying you shouldn't book a holiday in Mallorca in June because it's forecast to rain tomorrow. 

[Matthew Le God]

11 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Like Burnley, Derby, and all those other clubs who have been relegated never to rise again?

Puzzled why you are talking about Burnley. Currently 4th with a decent chance of promotion. Same will be the case for many parachute payment clubs, especially those with players they can also sell for big money. Like we have with Harwood-Bellis, Dibling and Fernandes. 

Are you denying our squad is packed full of top Championship level players. Just take Archer, Brereton Diaz and Armstrong. They all struggle in the Premier League but score for fun in the Championship. 

Edited 14 December, 2024 by Matthew Le God

[saintant]

9 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

If not now... then when? Long term infrastructure projects shouldnt be based on fluctuations between leagues. 

What exactly do you want them to tell you regarding their plans this season that it would be worthwhile them disclosing publically?

Anything to show that they at least share and respect the fans concerns and are taking action to alleviate the current desperate situation. They don't have to give away any trade secrets although our manager does this every week by alerting opponents that there will be no changes to our playing strategy.

[Matthew Le God]

2 minutes ago, saintant said:

Anything to show that they at least share and respect the fans concerns and are taking action to alleviate the current desperate situation. They don't have to give away any trade secrets 

Can you suggest an example of what they could say that would satisfy you?

Edited 14 December, 2024 by Matthew Le God

[EssEffCee]

10 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

You guys are getting a bit sidetracked here. Saints are a top of the Championship and bottom half of the PL sized club. We've shown over the last few years that we can sell out St Mary's consistently in both leagues. Talking about this seasons form is like saying you shouldn't book a holiday in Mallorca in June because it's forecast to rain tomorrow. 

I don't think you can look at solely last season and say we'll always sell out regularly in the championship. Last season was novelty for many after a long absence and that may not exist this time round.

Next seasons attendances will likely be lower than last for price reasons alone as I don't see the club making big reductions after the rises this year. And then if we don't go up we'll be back to an average of 24k-ish the season after in my opinion.

I'd say two-three seasons of good crowds isn't enough personally, it's when you have a waiting list for season tickets when it should be a higher priority. Especially if it's one people have paid to be on.

Edited 14 December, 2024 by EssEffCee

[Matthew Le God]

2 minutes ago, EssEffCee said:

I don't think you can look at solely last season and say we'll always sell out regularly in the championship. Last season was novelty for many after a long absence and that may not exist this time round.

Next seasons attendances will likely be lower than last for price reasons alone as I don't see the club making big reductions after the rises this year. And then if we don't go up we'll be back to an average of 24k-ish the season after in my opinion.

I'd say two-three seasons of good crowds isn't enough personally, it's when you have a waiting list for season tickets when it should be a higher priority. Especially if it's one people have paid to be on.

Our last two Championship seasons have been averages of 29k+ under Martin and 26k+ under Adkins

A very good chance of lots of wins will see big crowds if we are relegated.

[saintant]

4 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Can you suggest an example of what they could say that would satisfy you?

We have decided to part company with Russell Martin and will be appointing a caretaker manager until a permanent replacement has been identified. We wish Russell well and thank him for his efforts in securing promotion last season but clearly results and performances this season have not been good enough.

[Lighthouse]

6 minutes ago, EssEffCee said:

I don't think you can look at solely last season and say we'll always sell out regularly in the championship. Last season was novelty for many after a long absence and that may not exist this time round.

Next seasons attendances will likely be lower than last for price reasons alone as I don't see the club making big reductions after the rises this year. And then if we don't go up we'll be back to an average of 24k-ish the season after in my opinion.

I'd say two-three seasons of good crowds isn't enough personally, it's when you have a waiting list for season tickets when it should be a higher priority. Especially if it's one people have paid to be on.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-southampton/besucherzahlenentwicklung/verein/180

Last time we got relegated, despite a much longer absence and the 'novelty' of the Championship, our average attendance was only 23,600 and stayed fairly consistent the following season. Last season it was 29,300, which is all but a sell out when you factor in some opponents bringing very small away followings.

Clearly something has changed. Your 24,000 figure is plucked from thin air and everything we've seen so far indicates that actual attendances will be far higher, even if we don't come straight back up.

[EssEffCee]

9 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Our last two Championship seasons have been averages of 29k+ under Martin and 26k+ under Adkins

A very good chance of lots of wins will see big crowds if we are relegated.

Yeah people will always want to watch a winning team of course but I think we'll sell less season tickets than we did last year for reasons stated. 

At which point you're the relying on results to drive the crowds rather than them simply be through demand regardless of performance 

[EssEffCee]

Just now, Lighthouse said:

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-southampton/besucherzahlenentwicklung/verein/180

Last time we got relegated, despite a much longer absence and the 'novelty' of the Championship, our average attendance was only 23,600 and stayed fairly consistent the following season. Last season it was 29,300, which is all but a sell out when you factor in some opponents bringing very small away followings.

Clearly something has changed. Your 24,000 figure is plucked from thin air and everything we've seen so far indicates that actual attendances will be far higher, even if we don't come straight back up.

Yeah I agree that our support has grown in the last two decades, and even in the last 5 years (see our away followings), but that doesn't automatically equate to sustaining 28k plus crowds in a situation where we're not bouncing back at the first attempt.

I'm not against it as this season is as hard as I can remember for getting two seats together through general sale which runs the risk of losing a generation of potential supporters.

I just don't agree that having good crowds in one championship season where we were winning most weeks means we'll continue to do so regardless of how we perform on the pitch. 

There weren't that many games last season where the home end was full and the away end wasn't as I recall. Most of the smaller followings came from clubs like Preston, Hull etc which weren't sell outs in home ends either albeit I think both of those were midweek.

[Whitey Grandad]

57 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Puzzled why you are talking about Burnley. Currently 4th with a decent chance of promotion. Same will be the case for many parachute payment clubs, especially those with players they can also sell for big money. Like we have with Harwood-Bellis, Dibling and Fernandes. 

Are you denying our squad is packed full of top Championship level players. Just take Archer, Brereton Diaz and Armstrong. They all struggle in the Premier League but score for fun in the Championship. 

Compared to the other challenging clubs we are nothing special. It's a much more competitive league than the Premier. "A decent chance" is a long way from getting promoted. 

Defensively is where we shall struggle.

[Whitey Grandad]

47 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Our last two Championship seasons have been averages of 29k+ under Martin and 26k+ under Adkins

A very good chance of lots of wins will see big crowds if we are relegated.

"If we are relegated"

🤣😂🤣😂

[Whitey Grandad]

38 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-southampton/besucherzahlenentwicklung/verein/180

Last time we got relegated, despite a much longer absence and the 'novelty' of the Championship, our average attendance was only 23,600 and stayed fairly consistent the following season. Last season it was 29,300, which is all but a sell out when you factor in some opponents bringing very small away followings.

Clearly something has changed. Your 24,000 figure is plucked from thin air and everything we've seen so far indicates that actual attendances will be far higher, even if we don't come straight back up.

The pricing was lower then.

Since those days  we have been priced out of our seats in the central Kingsland. 

[SuperSAINT]

I saw the news on the echo the other day and thought to myself “MLG is gonna love this news” & he has not disappointed me on here. 😂

He’ll hath no fury like a St Mary’s expansion scorned.

[Breeny]

The investment priorities will probably be on hotels , entertainment, restaurants etc …long before any cash is spent on the stadium ! 

Edited 15 December, 2024 by Breeny

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, Breeny said:

The investment priorities will probably be on hotels , entertainment, restaurants etc …long before any cash is spent on the stadium ! 

Of course. Quickest return. Add residential to that list.

[Saint_clark]

10 hours ago, saintant said:

Not happening.

I'm confused as to why you're stubbornly refusing to believe any kind of development is happening when it's been announced by both the club and the council that it IS happening? 

[TheAlehouseBrawlers]

I think it certainly will happen...eventually. Liebherr/Cortese got as far as 'artists impressions' over a decade ago, Gao came in with intentions of progressing it until his wings were clipped and now we have this latest development. But even though leases are nearing the end on the riverside wharfs, the cement works and others will need to be relocated. No easy task.

Then you look at how many proposals have floundered around the city in recent years despite getting planning approval - a few major examples - Nelson Gate, Leisure World, Maritime Gateway (ToysRUs), Debenhams, the Bargate Quarter is stop-start. Material costs constantly escalating, a depleted UK construction workforce (it will be even harder now with the need to find enough tradesmen to build these 1.5m new homes over the next 5 years nationwide) great if it comes off but won't be holding my breath.

[saintant]

4 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

I'm confused as to why you're stubbornly refusing to believe any kind of development is happening when it's been announced by both the club and the council that it IS happening? 

Because, hopeless as or owners are, I don't believe even they are stupid enough to sanction stadium expansion when we are in freefall under a useless manager. We are highly likely to be relegated with the lowest ever points total and that will have a detrimental affect on season ticket sales. It's not rocket science. They've brought us to this situation and certainly will not be chucking money at a stadium expansion when their customer base is set to dwindle because of their own incompetence. Can't make my position any plainer but others are entitled to their own take on the situation.

[CB Fry]

4 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

I'm confused as to why you're stubbornly refusing to believe any kind of development is happening when it's been announced by both the club and the council that it IS happening? 

I'm stubbornly refusing to believe they will establish us as a mid table Premier League club. They are solidly on track for two Premier League seasons = two Premier league bottom place finishes. That very much IS happening.

Building a hotel or a cinema somewhere adjacent to the stadium is neither here nor there in the scheme of things.

Bournemouth play in a ground not much bigger than Court 18 at Wimbledon and are streets ahead of us now.

Sport Republic have been proven you be utterly hopeless at running a top level football club. I couldn't give a fuck how they get on in mixed-use commercial property development.

[Lighthouse]

48 minutes ago, saintant said:

Because, hopeless as or owners are, I don't believe even they are stupid enough to sanction stadium expansion when we are in freefall under a useless manager. We are highly likely to be relegated with the lowest ever points total and that will have a detrimental affect on season ticket sales. It's not rocket science. They've brought us to this situation and certainly will not be chucking money at a stadium expansion when their customer base is set to dwindle because of their own incompetence. Can't make my position any plainer but others are entitled to their own take on the situation.

Which is precisely your problem, you can't get it into your head that this issue is nothing to do with your hatred of Russell Martin. This is a long term decision which wont be completed for years and wont pay itself off for probably more than a decade. The status of on employee wont even come into the discussion of stadium expansion, they will be looking at our long term prospects as a football club. As much as you want to insist we're going to plummet down to the lower leagues with Martin clinging on til the bitter end, that isn't going to happen. If he's not gone this season, he'll either get us promoted next season or be sacked.

[saintant]

Just now, Lighthouse said:

Which is precisely your problem, you can't get it into your head that this issue is nothing to do with your hatred of Russell Martin. This is a long term decision which wont be completed for years and wont pay itself off for probably more than a decade. The status of on employee wont even come into the discussion of stadium expansion, they will be looking at our long term prospects as a football club. As much as you want to insist we're going to plummet down to the lower leagues with Martin clinging on til the bitter end, that isn't going to happen. If he's not gone this season, he'll either get us promoted next season or be sacked.

Isn't it time you grew up and learned not to accuse every person who criticises Martin of hating him? 

Under them it should be clear by now that our long term prospects aren't great.

You'll need to point me to where I suggested we're going to plummet down to the lower leagues.