St Mary's Stadium

[Lighthouse]

  On 15/12/2024 at 09:35, saintant said:

Isn't it time you grew up and learned not to accuse every person who criticises Martin of hating him? 

Under them it should be clear by now that our long term prospects aren't great.

You'll need to point me to where I suggested we're going to plummet down to the lower leagues.

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If you're on a thread about stadium expansion, which is nothing to do with the manager, and are repeatedly refusing to accept the business decisions being made because you want every decision to be centred around Martin, it's clearly gone well beyond a rational dislike. You've said we're in freefall under a useless manager, you clearly believe we're going to fall far enough that people stop going to Saints games for a sustained period of time. There's no reason to think that at all.

[saintant]

  On 15/12/2024 at 09:43, Lighthouse said:

If you're on a thread about stadium expansion, which is nothing to do with the manager, and are repeatedly refusing to accept the business decisions being made because you want every decision to be centred around Martin, it's clearly gone well beyond a rational dislike. You've said we're in freefall under a useless manager, you clearly believe we're going to fall far enough that people stop going to Saints games for a sustained period of time. There's no reason to think that at all.

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Stop making stuff up to suit your own agenda. If you don't agree with me I respect that but don't interpret what you think I said as the actual truth.

[TheAlehouseBrawlers]

I'd imagine the timing of this release of major news just happens to coincide with rumblings of unrest and protest, particular as we're live to the nation later. Probably forced them to reveal their "Ten Year Plan" sooner than expected.

Done nothing to stop fans bickering amongst themselves though 

[Wade Garrett]

If the development stops all those wanker lorry drivers blocking that road all the time, then I hope it happens.

[Nordic Saint]

Some people don't seem to notice how much the world is changing around them- all the new houses, the extra cars on the roads etc - even though the massive increase in the country's population has been in the news quite a lot lately. 

When St Mary's was opened in 2001, Southampton's population, inside the city limits, was 219,000; it's now 257,000 and it's still growing fast. By the time any stadium expansion is completed, there will be at least 40,000 more people living in the city than there were when St Mary's was built. The population increase in the surrounding area has been even more dramatic and it's not going to stop. There are now nearly 2 million people living in Hampshire. Of course, the population is increasing in most of the country, which is why so many clubs are building bigger stadiums.

Edited 15 December, 2024 by Nordic Saint

[Matthew Le God]

  On 15/12/2024 at 11:08, Nordic Saint said:

Some people don't seem to notice how much the world is changing around them- all the new houses, the extra cars on the roads etc - even though the massive increase in the country's population has been in the news quite a lot lately. 

When St Mary's was opened in 2001, Southampton's population, inside the city limits, was 219,000; it's now 257,000. By the time any stadium expansion is completed, there will be at least 40,000 more people living in the city than there were when St Mary's was built. The population increase in the surrounding area has been even more dramatic and it's not going to stop. There are now nearly 2 million people living in Hampshire. Of course, the population is increasing in most of the country, which is why so many clubs are building bigger stadiums.

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Very good point

[Saint_clark]

  On 15/12/2024 at 08:36, saintant said:

Because, hopeless as or owners are, I don't believe even they are stupid enough to sanction stadium expansion when we are in freefall under a useless manager. We are highly likely to be relegated with the lowest ever points total and that will have a detrimental affect on season ticket sales. It's not rocket science. They've brought us to this situation and certainly will not be chucking money at a stadium expansion when their customer base is set to dwindle because of their own incompetence. Can't make my position any plainer but others are entitled to their own take on the situation.

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We're not in freefall yet, we're just on course to be relegated. We'll still be in a strong position to come back up, dependent on summer transfers obviously.

The development of the waterfront is something that's been needed for 20 years or more. Even in league one we were getting more than 20,000 regularly, that's 20000 potential regular customers for commercial businesses set up in that area whether it be restaurants, bars or entertainment. The expansion of the stadium is likely something the club have seized upon as part of it, achieving planning permission and part funding in an agreement with the council to develop the waterfront to the benefit of the city.

  On 15/12/2024 at 08:57, CB Fry said:

I'm stubbornly refusing to believe they will establish us as a mid table Premier League club. They are solidly on track for two Premier League seasons = two Premier league bottom place finishes. That very much IS happening.

Building a hotel or a cinema somewhere adjacent to the stadium is neither here nor there in the scheme of things.

Bournemouth play in a ground not much bigger than Court 18 at Wimbledon and are streets ahead of us now.

Sport Republic have been proven you be utterly hopeless at running a top level football club. I couldn't give a fuck how they get on in mixed-use commercial property development.

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Don't disagree with anything you've said, but a development like this once it's done is done for good, and will only reap more rewards if or when we return to the Premier League. And let's be honest it will probably all be done and dusted for less than the cost of one Guido Carrillo so I'm not too bothered about the money being spent. 

[Whitey Grandad]

I haven't examined the proposals but clearly there would need to be significant and therefore expensive transport improvements in an area which even now is isolated by rail tracks,  river and built up areas. Without those it must be dead in the water or rather dead by the water.

[Lighthouse]

  On 15/12/2024 at 12:20, Whitey Grandad said:

I haven't examined the proposals but clearly there would need to be significant and therefore expensive transport improvements in an area which even now is isolated by rail tracks,  river and built up areas. Without those it must be dead in the water or rather dead by the water.

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I'd definitely agree it'd be great if we could have a small platform behind the Kingsland however I disagree with your overall point about there needing to be expensive improvement for the area to be viable. Outside of the central bus terminal on Above Bar and perhaps Central Station, SMS is maybe the best connected place in the city for bus routes. There are four bus routes along Northam Road, passing the stadium directly, two more within a five minute walk which route up through St Denys, and a further six if you head south to the Itchen bridge.

https://images-bluestarbus.passenger-website.com/2024-10/Bluestar_Unilink_Southampton NETWORK MAP MASTER_Oct 2024.pdf

It's already a very well connected and convenient part of town to live in.

[CB Fry]

  On 15/12/2024 at 11:41, Saint_clark said:

Don't disagree with anything you've said, but a development like this once it's done is done for good, and will only reap more rewards if or when we return to the Premier League. And let's be honest it will probably all be done and dusted for less than the cost of one Guido Carrillo so I'm not too bothered about the money being spent. 

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Yes - I would say it am indifferent to all of it. 

Bolton have a hotel attached to the Reebok if remember right and Reading similar. Hasn't done much for them but may at least give them something of a safety net if they are up shit creek.

In itself it doesn't do anything for our on pitch fortunes.

40k stadium - sure - but there has already been bellyaching on here about mythical Liverpool fans buying SMS season tickets for one match. 40k tickets swilling around is going to increase that for sure.

 

[Whitey Grandad]

  On 15/12/2024 at 12:33, Lighthouse said:

I'd definitely agree it'd be great if we could have a small platform behind the Kingsland however I disagree with your overall point about there needing to be expensive improvement for the area to be viable. Outside of the central bus terminal on Above Bar and perhaps Central Station, SMS is maybe the best connected place in the city for bus routes. There are four bus routes along Northam Road, passing the stadium directly, two more within a five minute walk which route up through St Denys, and a further six if you head south to the Itchen bridge.

https://images-bluestarbus.passenger-website.com/2024-10/Bluestar_Unilink_Southampton NETWORK MAP MASTER_Oct 2024.pdf

It's already a very well connected and convenient part of town to live in.

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No buses on New Year's day and some other public holidays. Buses are very inconvenient. 

[Lighthouse]

  On 15/12/2024 at 12:51, Whitey Grandad said:

No buses on New Year's day and some other public holidays. Buses are very inconvenient. 

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People don’t choose their residence based on public holiday bus schedules. That’s a minor inconvenience if you haven’t got a car but that’s all. Trains have reduced service on public holidays too, so I’m not sure I understand what you’re suggesting.

[Matthew Le God]

  On 15/12/2024 at 12:20, Whitey Grandad said:

I haven't examined the proposals but clearly there would need to be significant and therefore expensive transport improvements in an area which even now is isolated by rail tracks,  river and built up areas. Without those it must be dead in the water or rather dead by the water.

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The City Council acknowledge that in the statement...

"Enhanced Transport and Infrastructure plans to improve connectivity, making it easier for residents and visitors to access the waterfront area."

Edited 15 December, 2024 by Matthew Le God

[Matthew Le God]

For those questioning the need for expansion please give an answer to this.

As we sellout every PL game when it is this bad to watch what is on the pitch from a newly promoted team, how many tickets do you think we would sell on average in a bigger St Mary’s if we were mid table in the PL like we have been in the past?

The answer should just be a number.

[east-stand-nic]

  On 15/12/2024 at 14:29, Matthew Le God said:

For those questioning the need for expansion please give an answer to this.

As we sellout every PL game when it is this bad to watch what is on the pitch from a newly promoted team, how many tickets do you think we would sell on average in a bigger St Mary’s if we were mid table in the PL like we have been in the past?

The answer should just be a number.

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I think we are a 36 - 40k attendance sized club at this time, assuming as you said, we were a mid table premier league team. Or even a bottom half team as relegation battles can be crowd pullers, so long as you survive after. 

[It's There]

40k plus. Drop the pric3s and we’re full😊😇

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 15/12/2024 at 14:29, Matthew Le God said:

For those questioning the need for expansion please give an answer to this.

As we sellout every PL game when it is this bad to watch what is on the pitch from a newly promoted team, how many tickets do you think we would sell on average in a bigger St Mary’s if we were mid table in the PL like we have been in the past?

The answer should just be a number.

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1 million

[Harry_SFC]

Phil Parsons has just announced that they are hoping to open yet another "entertainment" zone by the end of next year. Honestly who cares about this? I'd much rather have some entertainment and results on the pitch.

All of this whilst we meekly surrender our status in the top flight and it goes down as one of the most embarrassing seasons in the history of the premier league.

Edited 15 December, 2024 by Harry_SFC

[Matthew Le God]

  On 15/12/2024 at 15:27, Harry_SFC said:

Phil Parsons has just announced that they are hoping to open yet another "entertainment" zone by the end of next year. Honestly who cares about this? I'd much rather have some entertainment and results on the pitch.

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There are not unconnected. Income raised can help improve quality on the pitch. Every little helps.

[Harry_SFC]

  On 15/12/2024 at 15:29, Matthew Le God said:

There are not unconnected. Income raised can help improve quality on the pitch. Every little helps.

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Without better recruitment in terms of players, staff and management, we won't be seeing any improvement in quality on the pitch.

[Miltonaggro]

  On 15/12/2024 at 15:27, Harry_SFC said:

Phil Parsons has just announced that they are hoping to open yet another "entertainment" zone by the end of next year. Honestly who cares about this? I'd much rather have some entertainment and results on the pitch.

All of this whilst we meekly surrender our status in the top flight and it goes down as one of the most embarrassing seasons in the history of the premier league.

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Just what we need to raise the bar, another addition to the current shanty town serving up overpriced crap. At least we are consistent on and off the park. 

[Matthew Le God]

  On 15/12/2024 at 15:31, Harry_SFC said:

Without better recruitment in terms of players, staff and management, we won't be seeing any improvement in quality on the pitch.

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Which is why raising revenue makes sense as it will help fund it.

[Lighthouse]

  On 15/12/2024 at 15:35, Miltonaggro said:

Just what we need to raise the bar, another addition to the current shanty town serving up overpriced crap. At least we are consistent on and off the park. 

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Whenever I’ve been there’s generally been an excellent selection of different food vans, some fairly decent live entertainment and the beer prices are reasonable enough for what they are. The fan zone is certainly a lot better than the one van serving slabs of salmonella-riddle shredded newspaper patties in a cardboard bun that we used to have, followed by a plastic bottle of warm Carling when you got inside.

[Ken Tone]

Has anyone seen any even vague details of this expansion plan? Most of the publicity I've seen seems to be about developing the area 

Anything on stadium capacity? 

[obelisk]

  On 15/12/2024 at 16:38, Ken Tone said:

Has anyone seen any even vague details of this expansion plan? Most of the publicity I've seen seems to be about developing the area 

Anything on stadium capacity? 

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Nothing concrete, so to speak. Like others I have a suspicion that the vague announcement is more about quelling unrest about the current dire predicament of the actual first team.

[spyinthesky]

  On 15/12/2024 at 16:38, Ken Tone said:

Has anyone seen any even vague details of this expansion plan? Most of the publicity I've seen seems to be about developing the area 

Anything on stadium capacity? 

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I'd be surprised if the MOU has anything in there specifically about stadium capacity.

I imagine that the discussion with SCC was opportunities for developing the waterside land and possibly the old Gasholder site and industrial units at the back of the Chapel.

[bpsaint]

  On 13/12/2024 at 18:58, Whitey Grandad said:

So let's say 10k seats at a net £400 a year, if that (don't forget VAT). That's a whopping extra £4m a year.

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Back when the stadium was built Rupes said the foundations were already in place in case we wanted to expand the Chapel, Northam and Kingsland to a total of 48k capacity. The Itchen cannot be expanded on though, and he said to do the expansion would cost the same as it did to build the stadium in the first place, so that’s £32 million back in 2001 prices, so I’m guessing closer to £50 mill now.
 

It’s likely though we’d only do the Kingsland to start with which would make it similar to Cardiff City Stadium. It’d probably take 10 years before we see a return on the investment realistically.

[The Kraken]

  On 15/12/2024 at 17:07, bpsaint said:

It’s likely though we’d only do the Kingsland to start with which would make it similar to Cardiff City Stadium.

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I’d hope we make at least a tiny bit of a design effort than they did, they made an absolute dogs dinner of it. Very cheap, but looks it.

 

[Sarisbury Saint]

The negativity towards this development is unbelievable.

You don’t spend this amount of money and time just to be a championship team.

[tdmickey3]

  On 15/12/2024 at 17:34, Sarisbury Saint said:

The negativity towards this development is unbelievable.

You don’t spend this amount of money and time just to be a championship team.

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Well, we are going to be 

[CB Fry]

  On 15/12/2024 at 17:34, Sarisbury Saint said:

The negativity towards this development is unbelievable.

You don’t spend this amount of money and time just to be a championship team.

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You do realise these people bought a Premier League team in the first place. Fucked that up, redeemed themselves and then fucked it up again. Right now I wouldn't trust these twats to run a bath.

[Whitey Grandad]

  On 15/12/2024 at 13:01, Lighthouse said:

People don’t choose their residence based on public holiday bus schedules. That’s a minor inconvenience if you haven’t got a car but that’s all. Trains have reduced service on public holidays too, so I’m not sure I understand what you’re suggesting.

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I'm saying that public transport is virtually non-existent. 

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 15/12/2024 at 17:34, Sarisbury Saint said:

The negativity towards this development is unbelievable.

You don’t spend this amount of money and time just to be a championship team.

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Lol.  This didn't age very well.

[Matthew Le God]

  On 15/12/2024 at 20:05, Weston Super Saint said:

Lol.  This didn't age very well.

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The post is still true

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 15/12/2024 at 20:29, Matthew Le God said:

The post is still true

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And yet, we will spend 'this amount of money to be a Championship club', so the post isn't true at all.

Unless you think that's wrong and we'll be staying up this season?

[saintant]

  On 15/12/2024 at 15:27, Harry_SFC said:

Phil Parsons has just announced that they are hoping to open yet another "entertainment" zone by the end of next year. Honestly who cares about this? I'd much rather have some entertainment and results on the pitch.

All of this whilst we meekly surrender our status in the top flight and it goes down as one of the most embarrassing seasons in the history of the premier league.

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A suggestion Phil - open an entertainment zone on the fucking pitch and rather than waiting until the end of next year do it now. A start would be achieved by getting rid of the clown of a manager.

[Matthew Le God]

  On 15/12/2024 at 20:32, Weston Super Saint said:

And yet, we will spend 'this amount of money to be a Championship club', so the post isn't true at all.

Unless you think that's wrong and we'll be staying up this season?

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Looks like we will be a Championship club, but their intention by spending that large amount of money isn't to be a Championship club. That is what makes it true.

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 15/12/2024 at 21:35, Matthew Le God said:

Looks like we will be a Championship club, but their intention by spending that large amount of money isn't to be a Championship club. That is what makes it true.

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What do you call a club in the Championship?

[Sarisbury Saint]

  On 15/12/2024 at 21:38, Weston Super Saint said:

What do you call a club in the Championship?

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You’re missing the point. This season was gone long before tonight. 
They are clearly not investing this kind of money without a plan to be a stable premiership club in the near future.

[Matthew Le God]

  On 15/12/2024 at 21:38, Weston Super Saint said:

What do you call a club in the Championship?

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The point was about their intention. Not whether they fail.

[Daft Kerplunk]

The biggest two barriers to all this working well are the two organisations that hold the cards. Sports Republic are proving to be useless owners, and then Southampton Council and the people in positions of power or continuing influence (and this doesn’t mean politicians as they think they run the show but they aren’t in charge) have been cocking up this city for as long as I can remember. Both the football club and city should be far better but incompetence reigns supreme in these parts. Perhaps it’s something in the water. Perhaps two packs of jokers can a double negative and lead to a positive. Unlikely. 

[Give it to Ron]

  On 15/12/2024 at 13:16, Matthew Le God said:

The City Council acknowledge that in the statement...

"Enhanced Transport and Infrastructure plans to improve connectivity, making it easier for residents and visitors to access the waterfront area."

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Do you live in Southampton? Have you seen the state of transport locally and the record our council has? Look at the abortion of the avenue, the 20 mile limits now being ripped up, the no right turn at Asda up hill by trains forcing everyone round the pier to a standstill.

The pier and Mayflower are both better places for hotel, flats and link with West Quay yet not done because it costs millions s no one will invest.

Who is going to stay in a hotel in Northam, St Mary’s it’ A  shit hole and unless shifting the residents will stay same despite building luxury flats. Look at Anderson’s Rd Chapel

its a great soundbite for the gullible but no one will have the money this requires .

[Matthew Le God]

  On 15/12/2024 at 22:19, Give it to Ron said:

Do you live in Southampton?

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No, in the New Forest. Yes, I know Southampton traffic is a mess.

[Give it to Ron]

  On 15/12/2024 at 22:29, Matthew Le God said:

No, in the New Forest. Yes, I know Southampton traffic is a mess.

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As I said the pier has been spoken about for over 10 years to have the same as this new SMS yet it’s never happened.

Its a bugbear of mine when you look at Cardiff Bay what can be achieved and our council gets millions from cruise ships .

Fair play if you believe it will happen I am totally sceptical it will if Soton Council involved 

[spyinthesky]

Couple of things Ron.
Cardiff Bay was financed by a lot of European and UK Govt grant funding and the Council does not put any money into the port nor does it receive any direct revenue from the cruise business apart from rates and rent on the Carnival Offices at West Quay.

[Give it to Ron]

  On 15/12/2024 at 22:47, spyinthesky said:

Couple of things Ron.
Cardiff Bay was financed by a lot of European and UK Govt grant funding and the Council does not put any money into the port nor does it receive any direct revenue from the cruise business apart from rates and rent on the Carnival Offices at West Quay.

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Is there any reason we couldn’t do same for funding yet haven’t?

No direct revenue but millions indirectly hotels, visitors, car parking, attractions etc. 

The same applies though I wouldn’t trust anything this council was involved in. 

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 15/12/2024 at 21:56, Matthew Le God said:

The point was about their intention. Not whether they fail.

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Please answer the question.

[spyinthesky]

  On 15/12/2024 at 22:56, Give it to Ron said:

Is there any reason we couldn’t do same for funding yet haven’t?

No direct revenue but millions indirectly hotels, visitors, car parking, attractions etc. 

The same applies though I wouldn’t trust anything this council was involved in. 

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Ron,

Cardiff benefited from European One, Two and Three funding from the EU as well as other capital that the Welsh Assembly managed to obtain from Central UK Govt.
When I was younger Cardiff Bay and surrounding area was decrepit now it is buzzing and the city has two decent sports stadia.
Southampton and the area generally has only received crumbs off the EU and UK tables in forms of Investment.
Dont expect any influx of capital now we have left the EU and at a time when the Govt is trying to fill a significant financial black hole.
You are right to say that the city receives revenue via third party revenue streams but none of this finds its way directly to the Council.
IF, and its a big IF, the aggregate companies can be persuaded to give up their rights to the land on the west side of the Itchen River then there may be institutional investors willing to underwrite the cost of leisure, commercial and housing developments in the space available but probably concentrating on housing, similar to the development at Woolston on the eastern side of the Itchen..
However this has to be balanced against the City Council's desire to see their development plan on land they own from the Central Station to the Holiday Inn progressed and this is stalling due to lack of financial backing.
As for increasing the capacity of St Marys, I think this is well down the pecking order of priorities.
When you compare the £80m it cost to expand the Anfield Rd end at Liverpool's ground, to the £32m the club spent to build St Marys, it provides an idea as to how much building costs have spiralled in recent years.
 

[Saint_clark]

  On 15/12/2024 at 16:33, Lighthouse said:

Whenever I’ve been there’s generally been an excellent selection of different food vans, some fairly decent live entertainment and the beer prices are reasonable enough for what they are. The fan zone is certainly a lot better than the one van serving slabs of salmonella-riddle shredded newspaper patties in a cardboard bun that we used to have, followed by a plastic bottle of warm Carling when you got inside.

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Yeah, after being in exile for a couple of years due to financial difficulties I was quite surprised to see how much choice there is now outside the ground including alcohol being served from vans too. 

[CB Fry]

I have to say it is very difficult to see on the news all the planned developments at Old Trafford.

If only we had gone through with the vision and ambition of Nicola Cortese that would definitely be us today 😪