stevegrant Posted 18 August, 2008 Share Posted 18 August, 2008 Forgot to add: Given that wages are likely to be between £12m and £14m, what the bloody hell have we spent £17-19m on in the last year?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alucard Posted 18 August, 2008 Share Posted 18 August, 2008 However the real villain of the whole peace is Lowe. He failed to back the team by using a fair proportion of the money that we made by getting to the Cup Final. Could you enlighten me how much we made out of the Cup Final. I seem to remember that the profit we made on that season was £4M but I might be mistaken. If I am right we did spend £3.2M on Kevin Phillips after the Cup Final so Lowe did what you asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 18 August, 2008 Share Posted 18 August, 2008 I thought total income was £14 m but I maybe wrong but the loss is £5m approx for sure. Yes we need money ASAP That's an extra 12,000 on every home gate, and there's no way that we can achieve that, even if we got to the final of the Carling Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 18 August, 2008 Share Posted 18 August, 2008 Could you enlighten me how much we made out of the Cup Final. Not a lot from the actual cup run because the vast majority of all cup-related revenue (ticket and merchandise sales plus TV revenue) ended up in the players' pockets because of the performance-related bonus scheme that was in place at the time to ensure the basic salaries were kept relatively low. In terms of the overall picture, I think we made a profit of about £3m that year, based on pretty much a whole season of capacity crowds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 18 August, 2008 Share Posted 18 August, 2008 Forgot to add: Given that wages are likely to be between £12m and £14m, what the bloody hell have we spent £17-19m on in the last year?!?! Exactly! What do we have to show for it? It can't have gone on capital expenditure or else we could sell that and recover some cash. The interest repayments on the stadium must be somewhere near £4m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 18 August, 2008 Share Posted 18 August, 2008 Exactly! What do we have to show for it? It can't have gone on capital expenditure or else we could sell that and recover some cash. The interest repayments on the stadium must be somewhere near £4m I think somewhere in the region of £2.5m goes towards the repayment of the mortgage (which I guess includes interest on a "repayment" style mortgage - hardly likely to be an interest-only one!), but that's still the thick end of £15m remaining. I seem to remember a debate a few months ago about the business rates SFC are being charged by Southampton City Council/central Government, and that apparently we might be paying more than we should given clubs with similar-sized properties appear to be paying less. It would be useful if someone could find those figures... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St_Tel49 Posted 18 August, 2008 Share Posted 18 August, 2008 The operating loss for the year is around £17m, offset by a £12m profit on player trading, resulting in an overall loss of about £5m. Quite how we managed to spend £31m (revenue of circa £14m) in the 12 months from July 07 to June 08 is beyond me. Absolutely staggering figures. Is not that the fundamental reason why Lowe came back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Mockles Posted 18 August, 2008 Share Posted 18 August, 2008 says today's Independent referring to Southampton FC, and with the inevitable sale - it seems - of Davies and perhaps Surman (Readings DoF was in the director's box on Saturday) the above description is becoming uncomfortably close to being right. While there is sometimes no point in playing the blame game because what's happened can't be altered I feel, in the light of Askham's presence in the Director's box on Saturday, that we should be bringing those most responsible for our demise to trial. Having just read "The Nuremberg War trials" by Airey Neave while on holiday (yes I know not very light reading but I had read all mine and this was in the villa bookcase) I would like to lay charges as follows to the following "war" criminals in order of culpability. Guy Askham - you are charged with starting the whole shooting match in the first place by putting in place a highly suspicious reverse takeover that turned SFC into a PLC and lined your own and others pockets while some long-standing servants were conned out of their shares. You then sat back and watched as your partner in crime, Rupert Lowe, despite showing early promise, turned this club from being one of the most respected clubs in the country into a laughing stock. You alone could have spoken up in our hour of need but you chose to melt into the shadows while Rome burned and now you have the cheek to once again sit at the feet of the emperor's throne. Shame on you. Rupert Lowe - you are charged as being an accomplice of the reverse takeover and subsequent dereliction of duty as you oversaw the clubs established Premiership pedigree evaporate amid a plethora of unwise managerial appointments. Your failure to see the warning signals in our relegation year and your subsequent mis management of the first year of the parachute payments has cost this club dear and set us on the spiralling downward path we now tread. You are also charged with being pompous, arrogant and gaffe prone PR wise. Michael Wilde - you are charged with a gross case of misleading the fanbase with promises and manifestos you could never keep. You are also charged with imcompetent mismanagement of the highest degree with your appointment of a discredited executive team. In the middle of the storm you then abandoned the ship which means a dereliction of duty charge only apt. Your involvement short has been, in short, disastrous. Hone/Dulieu - charged with mass incompetence and lack of PR skills. Also charged with bullying and harrassment of employees and fans. ........................ All in all this is a very sorry state of affairs and the prosecution calls for a 100% blanket ban on all the above ever entering SMS again. That’s a brilliant post! Echoes the sentiments of many (other than the plethora of PR plants and fence sitters on this forum). No offence to the genuine fans, I applaud your continual support against such trying times. I’ll try not to be too emotional and not use too many adjectives but, I fear, I will fail (as Saints runs deep in my blood and it will be nigh on impossible not to over-opinionated against such bizarre adversity). Sorry guys and girls. I must admit, I chuckled at the reactionary statement of the OS article by Poortvliet (Jan clarifies the situation – i.e. “Jan reads another autocue written by Heir Lowe”) http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/articles/article.php?page_id=10457 Perhaps, If Lowe and Wilde took less time reading this f*ckin forum and as much time caring and considering football matters, we’d not be in this mess in the first place. Forget the blame game, the egos and power control. They try and manipulate public opinion with pathetic press statements, sound bites and website nonsense whilst bad decision after bad decision is made on and off the field to the final destruction of our club. I thought we had reached rock bottom – nope! Pre-season optimism shattered in one weekend (mainly due to the Davies news – I can live with the result Saturday if we improve but it all hangs on tenter hooks, especially with Svensson’s health and no back up). Is learning banned at St Mary’s?! That OS article is almost entirely reactionary to most of the comments raised on TSW (which I read over the weekend). Laughable. Complete b*llsh*t too in my opinion. Insult our intelligence so more, why don’t you?! Fire fighting. I bet Jan will have to think twice before speaking honestly again seeing as that goes against the current remit of the in-house regime. Especially seeing as Askham is back on the scene. I don’t know about the rest of you but is anyone sick to the back teeth of the worn out line “getting rid of the high earners” ??? (i.e. reasonably paid professionals). I know I am. Davies was brought in later so wasn’t one of Burley’s ‘special’ deals and is by far our best player and the backlash may well be great, especially with Surman too. Nervous times. There are too many inconsistencies and I don’t understand why we have to sell the top performing professionals (for this example – Davies) whilst we are signing kids like Schniederlin. Ok, we farm players and ARE a feeder club but Davies could have attracted much more money himself. What we will lose from his sale will be far greater than a mere 200-500K profit (i.e. attendances and back lash). Maybe it will keep the directors expenses going at least until Xmas?! Maybe this was a revenge mission?! Who knows. I am not totally condemning the board but, be honest, cynicism isn’t unfounded. Just look at their track record. If the current board were that concerned about the actual existence of the club, seeing as none are short of money, maybe some form of personal investment could assist (like the elusive 2 million Mr “Words have no meaning from me” Wilde professed to donate to the club in the early days of his incompetent reign) They have many shares – it would protect their investment. Would that not be prudent in such dire circumstances?! Maybe not drawing a salary would be a start. No? Maybe they have another agenda – admin and a cheap club? Speculative but not a ridiculous assumption?! Enough politics anyway. I digress. I am deeply upset and disappointed with our board. Hugely. Bank requirements or not, I don’t trust what we are told and we are likely to have any contentious information swept well away with Lowe at the helm. I bemoan our management but love the team, the club. I always come back, despite saying otherwise. I enjoyed the first half Saturday but my fears came to fruition second half (check my old posts about full backs needed, being too lightweight and needing firepower – we had no strikers on the bench! Stupid imho and we showed it by trailing and having no player in a forward position. CRAZY tactics) I fear we haven’t fallen, we have burnt out. If Davies is gone, then so have our survival hopes. Sorry to sound doom and gloom but if you hold more optimism than me, you’re a good person to be positive but, no offence (meant in the nicest way), deluded. God bless our Saints and may they rest in peace (pieces). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 18 August, 2008 Share Posted 18 August, 2008 I think somewhere in the region of £2.5m goes towards the repayment of the mortgage (which I guess includes interest on a "repayment" style mortgage - hardly likely to be an interest-only one!), but that's still the thick end of £15m remaining. At the time that the stadium was being built I remember references to a specialist finance company, based in Suffolk I believe, who loaned the money against the security of future season ticket sales. As I recall, there were other stadiums that were being financed in a similar manner. These are likely to be long-term financial arrangements on higher than normal interest rates with expensive get-out terms. Its not like other property loans because the only practical use for the stadium is to hold football matches. This loan is one of the factors that sets us apart from other clubs in the same division who own their own stadiums. The turnover for some of these is around £8m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Shot Posted 18 August, 2008 Author Share Posted 18 August, 2008 Forgot to add: Given that wages are likely to be between £12m and £14m, what the bloody hell have we spent £17-19m on in the last year?!?! That is a very good question. Pay offs to the execs comes to mind but surely to God we didn't give them that much. Perhaps Leon Crouch and David Jones could enlighten us - certainly the latter who was in situ the entire 07-08. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Mockles Posted 18 August, 2008 Share Posted 18 August, 2008 Comparing the misfortunes and boardroom fighting at a football club to the war crimes, genocide - extermination of 6 million Jews etc of the Nazi party during WWII is quite bad taste really Lighten up! I don’t think Long Shot was illustrating a direct comparison – more a grave matter in football equivalent terms. Obviously managerial decisions do not compare to warm crimes – but they are almost criminal negligence and incompetency in the world of football. I’d say with our club, the paraody works as a euphemism! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 18 August, 2008 Share Posted 18 August, 2008 We forgot to add. Much fewer season ticket sales and zero income during the close season which would have made a bad position worse. Follow that with the "nobody else is stupid enough to pay such stupid salaries" so we can't actually get rid of the players we WANT to get rid of and are reduced to selling the family silverware and cashing in our endowments for far less than they are worth, all we can do is vent our feelings and hope we feel better I'm still looking for any alternative, and still ain't seen one. Even after we've burnt the whole sorry bunch of them at the stake, the ashes ain't gonna be any use to us we'll feel better for a week or two but we'll still be screwed. Think we have 13 days left to get money into the club one way or another from sales and the only people looking to buy are Stoke & Reading. It's ****** but it's life. Anyway didn't see Gordon Brown & the sub-prime morons in the list. Without them we may have at least had a month or two extra breathing space Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 18 August, 2008 Share Posted 18 August, 2008 Yes income from player sales was £12m yet we lost £5million I was talking about player's salaries, not transfer income. It's easy to find out - there's a link to the reports on the OS. I've just checked and in the 6 months ending 31 December 2007 player wages were £6.1m (so about £12m for the year, as I said). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 18 August, 2008 Share Posted 18 August, 2008 Steve, the £14.4m figure is for the previous year's period. The figure for the 6 months ending 31 December 2007 is £11.7m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 18 August, 2008 Share Posted 18 August, 2008 Steve, the £14.4m figure is for the previous year's period. The figure for the 6 months ending 31 December 2007 is £11.7m. That's just the cost of sales. There are other operating costs on top of that which makes a total of £14.4m: http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/search/?mode=movenav&page_id=9954 OPERATING EXPENSES £14.4M (2006:£14.4M) Cost of sales increased from £11.1m to £11.7m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 18 August, 2008 Share Posted 18 August, 2008 That's just the cost of sales. There are other operating costs on top of that which makes a total of £14.4m: http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/search/?mode=movenav&page_id=9954 Sorry, you're quite right! For some reason I just read the number wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 18 August, 2008 Share Posted 18 August, 2008 Why are my smilies still not working properly? I did the roll-eye one not that one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miserableoldgit Posted 18 August, 2008 Share Posted 18 August, 2008 Why are my smilies still not working properly? I did the roll-eye one not that one! Not a lot to smile about at the moment........??????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Saint Posted 18 August, 2008 Share Posted 18 August, 2008 says today's Independent referring to Southampton FC, and with the inevitable sale - it seems - of Davies and perhaps Surman (Readings DoF was in the director's box on Saturday) the above description is becoming uncomfortably close to being right. While there is sometimes no point in playing the blame game because what's happened can't be altered I feel, in the light of Askham's presence in the Director's box on Saturday, that we should be bringing those most responsible for our demise to trial. Having just read "The Nuremberg War trials" by Airey Neave while on holiday (yes I know not very light reading but I had read all mine and this was in the villa bookcase) I would like to lay charges as follows to the following "war" criminals in order of culpability. Guy Askham - you are charged with starting the whole shooting match in the first place by putting in place a highly suspicious reverse takeover that turned SFC into a PLC and lined your own and others pockets while some long-standing servants were conned out of their shares. You then sat back and watched as your partner in crime, Rupert Lowe, despite showing early promise, turned this club from being one of the most respected clubs in the country into a laughing stock. You alone could have spoken up in our hour of need but you chose to melt into the shadows while Rome burned and now you have the cheek to once again sit at the feet of the emperor's throne. Shame on you. Rupert Lowe - you are charged as being an accomplice of the reverse takeover and subsequent dereliction of duty as you oversaw the clubs established Premiership pedigree evaporate amid a plethora of unwise managerial appointments. Your failure to see the warning signals in our relegation year and your subsequent mis management of the first year of the parachute payments has cost this club dear and set us on the spiralling downward path we now tread. You are also charged with being pompous, arrogant and gaffe prone PR wise. Michael Wilde - you are charged with a gross case of misleading the fanbase with promises and manifestos you could never keep. You are also charged with imcompetent mismanagement of the highest degree with your appointment of a discredited executive team. In the middle of the storm you then abandoned the ship which means a dereliction of duty charge only apt. Your involvement short has been, in short, disastrous. Hone/Dulieu - charged with mass incompetence and lack of PR skills. Also charged with bullying and harrassment of employees and fans. Leon Crouch - you are charged with 1st degree niaivity which nearly had grave consequences. Despite the good ship Southampton heading for the rocks you continually pointed the telescope to the open sea and refused to address the impending wreck until it was almost too late. Your patronisation of the fanbase was also inexcusable and it is considered you are unfit to serve on a football board ever again. Keith Wiseman - you are charged as beeing weak willed and knock kneed. You have also wined and dined on Southampton FC far too long without contributing anything worth mentioning. In short you are a complete waste of space. Lawrie MacMenemy - despite your known distaste for Mr Lowe and Mr Askham you were still prepared to line you pockets at the reverse takeover and then watch silently from the wings until your turn came again to feed at the trough. You have served this club well in the past but your time is up. George Burley - you are charged with losing interest and being a manager that led the unfittest side in Saints history. You signed a lot of highly paid underperforming footballers over the last 18 months and when the slide came you couldn't be bothered to address the situation. You were content to sit back and tread water until the right offer came in and you left behing the most demotivated squad since Ian Branfoot. A 1st degree negligence charge is laid at your door. Steve Wigley - charged with mass ineptitude of the highest degree. You let yourself be talked into a position you didn't want and you showed weak character in not standing up to the "playground bully". The Saints Trust - despite a much vaunted launch amid promises and big talk you failed to have any effect at a time when the fans were crying out for a united voice. In fact you took on the appearance of a rabbit caught in headlights and today most don't even believe you exist such is your timidity. You wasted a golden opportunity to stand up and be counted and you are charged with cowardice under fire. Gordon Strachan - another who left a sinking ship. You are also charged with being economical with the truth over your reasons for leaving. Jason Dodd/John Gorman - you are charged with being absolutely useless and overseeing the worst ever performance by a Saints side in modern times. Harry Redknapp - you are charged with treason, no more no less. Sir Clive Woodwood - you are charged with carrying out dangerous experiments with guinea pigs not up to the task. You are also charged with bringing the biggest clown in football to Staplewood, Simon Clifford. His arrival was another nail in our coffin as it alienated the back room staff. All in all this is a very sorry state of affairs and the prosecution calls for a 100% blanket ban on all the above ever entering SMS again. Absolutely fair on all counts, through perhpas a little lenient on Strachan - who also did nothing to arrest the decline that was all too visible in the first half of the season he left - and Lowe for his current incompetence. Announcing our plight so publicly that even minnows like Stoke and Reading are able to pick up our best players for next to nothing - because he has made it so clear to the football world that we are desparate - is hardly a financial masterstroke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 18 August, 2008 Share Posted 18 August, 2008 If you have to put any people on trail for putting us in this mess try and find out who were the ones that were instrumental in blocking the appointment of glenn Hoddle in 2004. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 18 August, 2008 Share Posted 18 August, 2008 Absolutely fair on all counts, through perhpas a little lenient on Strachan - who also did nothing to arrest the decline that was all too visible in the first half of the season he left - and Lowe for his current incompetence. Announcing our plight so publicly that even minnows like Stoke and Reading are able to pick up our best players for next to nothing - because he has made it so clear to the football world that we are desparate - is hardly a financial masterstroke. Let me see we bought Davies for £1 million he played a few games we sell him for £1.3 million and he earns £500000 per year and that is incompetance. I wont comment on Surman as he is still here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwaySaint1 Posted 18 August, 2008 Share Posted 18 August, 2008 I have a funny feeling that the club are looking at this thread with interest and are not happy with the facts being presented,the thread contains many posts that are alien to them"THE TRUTH". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madruss Posted 18 August, 2008 Share Posted 18 August, 2008 If you have to put any people on trail for putting us in this mess try and find out who were the ones that were instrumental in blocking the appointment of glenn Hoddle in 2004. Tell that to the Wolves fans who had to put up with his excellent championship management skills for over a year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 18 August, 2008 Share Posted 18 August, 2008 Tell that to the Wolves fans who had to put up with his excellent championship management skills for over a year Fair enough, but look at his record for the saints and read what Paul Ince said of his management of England. Oh, and we chose that proven League 1 manager Worzel Sturrock as an alternative....I would laugh if it wasn't so tragic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 18 August, 2008 Share Posted 18 August, 2008 Tell that to the Wolves fans who had to put up with his excellent championship management skills for over a year would probably do alot better than God or should I say, Pearson.. 3 wins...LMAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjphilsaint Posted 18 August, 2008 Share Posted 18 August, 2008 TBH, if youve got the time and impetus to sit down and draw up that comparision with the Nuremberg War Trails, then I can only suggest that you are not of a sound mind. not good enough sorry. If you do not agree then say so but do not abuse the man. he is entitled to his views and it is his thread. Do not drag yet anothrer thread down. Yhank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAndy1970 Posted 18 August, 2008 Share Posted 18 August, 2008 I was never sure of where we were going when he was appointed at St Mary's by Lowe, but I find it interesting that he is now out in Bejing working for Team GB and we have the potential for our highest medal count since 1920. Did we all miss the point of what he was trying to achieve here?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 18 August, 2008 Share Posted 18 August, 2008 Given that wages are likely to be between £12m and £14m, what the bloody hell have we spent £17-19m on in the last year?!?! I'm still in shock at this figure. Why on earth is anybody fiddling about closing the corners to save a net £15k when there must be astronomical sums that can be saved in this amount? I can understand reducing the salaries of the playing staff but they fade into insignificance compared to this sum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 18 August, 2008 Share Posted 18 August, 2008 All the doom-mongers on this thread will either be right or wrong, and we will find out which indue course. But it does seem a bit of a wast of time spreading so much misery, when events will move on regardless of what is written here. Longshot's attempt to re-write the Nuremburg Trials (maybe a bit of over-reaction that, to compare running a football club to running a World War) suggests he could use another holiday - but I pity anyone who goes with him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgiesaint Posted 18 August, 2008 Share Posted 18 August, 2008 I think he's saying that our outgoings were small, for a Premiership club. The point I believe Steve was trying to make was that our costs have not been 'small' for a while - at least while we've been at SMS. I stand to be corrected & I haven't checked the accounts, but I believe in our last year in the premiership we made a profit of £500k - which given the TV revenue we would have received does not indicate small outgoings. Many of our problems have been that since relegation, our revenue is now a fraction (a quarter springs to mind - again I stand to be corrected as I don't have the SLH accounts in front of me at the mo) but little has been done up to now to address the outgoings. Now player wages are being looked at properly (yes I know its bad to be haemorraging our best players but we cannot afford to be paying 10k per week), the debts on the stadium do not change whatever league you're playing in, management of the players wages is crucial to our survival. Back to the original point, we've not been a situation that our outgoings have been small since the dell days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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