Saints 2-1 Plymouth - Match Thread

[Whitey Grandad]

3 minutes ago, Zorba said:

I find Alcaraz frustrating, he often gives the ball away. Good job I’m not managing this team as I was calling for his head just before that wonder strike. Same with Adams, useless until he got his goal. We dominated from start to finish as they came to sit behind the ball and take a counter if it came their way. It nearly worked for them too. We’ll need a bit of luck and we got it yesterday in the shape of some poor officials. This is a fantastic run. Well done Saints! 

That was a stupid, petulant yellow card to get. Smallbone too.

[Zorba]

2 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

That was a stupid, petulant yellow card to get. Smallbone too.

Agreed. We quite often pick yellows for daft things. Smallbone seems to be a regular offender, and Shea Charles is another that sometimes makes what seem to be poor decisions to pick up a yellow. It hasn’t cost us yet and I wonder if it’s all part of playing right on the edge as we have good cover in those areas. Bednarek on the other hand has been a breath of fresh air this season and his individual errors and rash challenges seem to be few and far between. 

[The Cat]

20 minutes ago, Zorba said:

Agreed. We quite often pick yellows for daft things. Smallbone seems to be a regular offender, and Shea Charles is another that sometimes makes what seem to be poor decisions to pick up a yellow. It hasn’t cost us yet and I wonder if it’s all part of playing right on the edge as we have good cover in those areas. Bednarek on the other hand has been a breath of fresh air this season and his individual errors and rash challenges seem to be few and far between. 

We pick up a lot of yellows because we have a lot of players ahead of the ball in possession so when we lose it there's often no option but to bring a player down and take a booking.

That's why we subbed off Alcaraz and Smallbone yesterday. It's also why yellows like the one Alcaraz picked up yesterday are inexcusable.

[CamSaint]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

As long as our form continues I don't care if the tea lady plays fullback.

I believe she's being saved for the 'cup' game........

[Whitey Grandad]

2 minutes ago, CamSaint said:

I believe she's being saved for the 'cup' game........

Ouch

[LaptopSaint]

15 hours ago, Block41 Saint said:

He's still a woeful keeper. 

He really isn’t. 

[S-Clarke]

I thought Plymouth made that difficult, they defended really compact and it was hard to find space. The criticism I had was we didn't move it fast enough at times in the first half, but our approach in the second half was more direct - the goal for Che was just a run over the top, which totally beats their low block and bypasses that number 10 area. 

They should have been 1-0 up though, no doubts about that. Not sure what the lino saw to suggest he was offside, but we'll take it. It was the double blow for Plymouth though as we played it quickly, caught them totally out of shape and for the first and only time we had some space in that number 10 - and Charly took that chance.

The goal at the end was frustrating because there was simply no need, we got ourselves into a muddle and Bazunu was given the ball back when he wasn't best placed to deal with it - although you can't excuse what he did. All Gk's have moments like that though, just part of the life of being a goalie.

I'm absolutely stunned at what we're putting together right now - we're better at this stage (points wise) than we were the last time we got promoted from this league. To come from where we were, at points 12-13 behind the top 2, to now being just 3 points off 2nd spot with an equal goal difference is amazing. This squad was always capable of doing this though, so it's nice to actually see a structure in place which is allowing our PL quality all over the pitch to dominate this level.

Leeds were best placed to nab 2nd, but now they're 6 points behind us so you have to say the focus is now on us. I didn't think we'd be in the automatic promotion talk at all, but we've turned it around and have put ourselves as one of the favourites to get that 2nd spot now I think.

Edited 30 December, 2023 by S-Clarke

[OldNick]

11 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

 

They should have been 1-0 up though, no doubts about that. Not sure what the lino saw to suggest he was offside, but we'll take it. It was the double blow for Plymouth though as we played it quickly, caught them totally out of shape and for the first and only time we had some space in that number 10 - and Charly took that chance.

 

Dont forget that the lino made 2 bad off side calls against us pre the goal, so he was consistant

[Totton Saint]

3 hours ago, Dr Who? said:

Adams movement the whole game was brilliant. In the second half we were level with the line in the Itchen and the amount of runs that are made is truly amazing. Every few seconds one of the line will make a run and then drop back in. Never really noticed it before. Adams off the ball work is brilliant. 

THANKS. I never realised what a run it was when watching on Sky

[OldNick]

All game our forwards and midfielders were making runs only for the ball to be played sideways or back. I admire Adams for keep making them, eventually it paid off for him and he got his reward.

A comfortable performance until we made all the subs and lost the ability to hold the ball up front. We then started playing the ball at the back and of course got the usual mistake. That made things edgy instead of the comfortable seeing out of the game.

Edozie played well, I like Aribo and his strength, and Adams endeavour 

[Charlie Wayman]

Backs to the wall stuff form the visitors made for a very frustrating game to watch but our second half trick of lobbing the ball over the top sorted them out once and for all. Smallbone deserved to score from the first one and frankly should have done. Charlie's goal was magical.

Too many manic depressives on here saying Argyle's goal should have stood and by implication "a different game" but come on, we played them off the park and they were lucky to keep our score respectable. 7-0 would have flattered them.

The cock-up goal at the end was entirely down to Stephens (where have we heard that 100 times before!) short passing to Baz and giving him no chance to get his positioning right. Why Martin feels the need to bring Calamity Jack on at all is beyond me, the bloke has become a joke and an embarrassment. Perhaps he has a secret ambition to displace Baz and play in goal.

Argyle's No's 2 & 8 played well against KWP and SE and maybe are worth keeping an eye on.

The music & light show lacked any kind of imagination and was one to forget.

 

[Charlie Wayman]

40 minutes ago, OldNick said:

All game our forwards and midfielders were making runs only for the ball to be played sideways or back. I admire Adams for keep making them, eventually it paid off for him and he got his reward.

A comfortable performance until we made the subs and lost the ability to hold the ball upall front. We then started playing the ball at the back and of course got the usual mistake. That made things edgy instead of the comfortable seeing out of the game.

Edozie played well, I like Aribo and his strength, and Adams endeavour 

I agree Nick, this time the subs made little impact and our game broke down. Perhaps at 2-0 they felt the game was all over and they didn't need to over exert themselves.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, OldNick said:

All game our forwards and midfielders were making runs only for the ball to be played sideways or back. I admire Adams for keep making them, eventually it paid off for him and he got his reward.

A comfortable performance until we made all the subs and lost the ability to hold the ball up front. We then started playing the ball at the back and of course got the usual mistake. That made things edgy instead of the comfortable seeing out of the game.

Edozie played well, I like Aribo and his strength, and Adams endeavour 

They were making those runs all through the game and kept being ignored.  In the end I wondered if it was a deliberate tactic to try and pull their team out of shape. 

[gio1saints]

38 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

They were making those runs all through the game and kept being ignored.  In the end I wondered if it was a deliberate tactic to try and pull their team out of shape. 

Good point.
A lot of our players make A LOT of runs every match without getting the ball passed to them. 
I dont think it’s as much “ ignored” as perhaps not quite got the speed of thought and ball-foot coordination to react quickly enough to deliver the ball. 

The THB ball to Che whilst a superb pass for instance was relatively straightforward and well within the centre of his line of sight. 

Passes that are more diagonal or have to go through lines of defenders at an angle take super fast mental calculation to be able to hit the pass with the right pace trajectory etc.

We might be spoiled because we can watch World class players do it in the EPL playing for Man City etc but it’s still one of the highest levels of skill ie being able not only to see the incisive pass but to be able to deliver it. 
Im glad we seem to be more prepared to use that kind of ball - though I imagine it’s opponent based as well as our forward line based. Che’s offside goal in first half was a good example Also. 

[Miltonaggro]

2 hours ago, OldNick said:

Dont forget that the lino made 2 bad off side calls against us pre the goal, so he was consistant

He was genuinely appalling, even with some of the basic decision making. 

[Miltonaggro]

2 hours ago, OldNick said:

All game our forwards and midfielders were making runs only for the ball to be played sideways or back. I admire Adams for keep making them, eventually it paid off for him and he got his reward.

A comfortable performance until we made all the subs and lost the ability to hold the ball up front. We then started playing the ball at the back and of course got the usual mistake. That made things edgy instead of the comfortable seeing out of the game.

Edozie played well, I like Aribo and his strength, and Adams endeavour 

That’s how I saw things in terms of the subs, in particular JS. Know he is returning after injury but he looked out of sorts and leggy. 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

5 hours ago, The Cat said:

Would you rather Stephens gets some game time while we are rotating the squad during a busy period and comfortably winning matches, or sits on the bench until one of the CB's gets injured and then has to come straight into the team for a run of games without potentially playing for months?

There's is absolutely no way Bazunu thought that either. One thing you can see from our play is that the players all trust each other. 

I'd rather he sat on the bench. The centre backs aren't being rotated so all that's happening is he's getting a tiny amount of game time out of position. With ten minutes to go and comfortably winning, I'd rather see one of the youngsters come on. Instead, KWP has to move up field to make way for Jack, the balance of the team gets affected, he contributes to their goal with a lazy back pass and from nowhere they could have snatched a point (or more important, we could have dropped two).

[gio1saints]

1 minute ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

I'd rather he sat on the bench. The centre backs aren't being rotated so all that's happening is he's getting a tiny amount of game time out of position. With ten minutes to go and comfortably winning, I'd rather see one of the youngsters come on. Instead, KWP has to move up field to make way for Jack, the balance of the team gets affected, he contributes to their goal with a lazy back pass and from nowhere they could have snatched a point (or more important, we could have dropped two).

Fair point - I do like to give kids a chance but this match after they scored was not it and the argument that we could have put (Amo?) on for Che when we already have Ryan there is a little bit weaker.
I think it’s probably more important to RM that our defence remains solid than we blood youngsters. Our improvement on goals conceded means every time we score we’re already unlikely to lose- we are not used to that! 

Its also worth bearing in mind that Jack Stephens fitness means both Jan and THB know they have real competition to start. And that does wonders for concentration. Keeping JS on the bench - next to Mason- does not have quite the same impact as knowing he is getting on wherever at some point. 
 

[The Cat]

I see it as a way of making everyone in the squad feel part of the first team. No one is being frozen out as we saw with previous managers.

From what I hear there is a sense of togetherness throughout the squad which hasn't been there for a long time. Obviously winning helps, but the fact this is happening while everyone is getting a chance can only be a good thing. The atmosphere around the training ground is said to be one of togetherness and everyone supports each other. 

Some of the players who left before the end of the summer window, either permanently or on loan, didn't exactly have the type of personality which would help foster that type of environment.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

25 minutes ago, The Cat said:

I see it as a way of making everyone in the squad feel part of the first team. No one is being frozen out as we saw with previous managers.

From what I hear there is a sense of togetherness throughout the squad which hasn't been there for a long time. Obviously winning helps, but the fact this is happening while everyone is getting a chance can only be a good thing. The atmosphere around the training ground is said to be one of togetherness and everyone supports each other. 

Some of the players who left before the end of the summer window, either permanently or on loan, didn't exactly have the type of personality which would help foster that type of environment.

I get that viewpoint, but my view is that if you were bringing on a sub, make it like for like, unless chasing a game or tatical.

Edited 30 December, 2023 by Lee On Solent Saint
missing word

[fanimal]

Having watched the highlights back Jack should have let the ball come across him then slide it down the line to KWP who was already on the move waiting for it to link up with Mara

Such a pointless lazy unnecessary back pass

[Chewy]

Bit late with the post match thoughts and not a lot to add to what’s been said.

Thought it might be tougher and so it proved, due mainly to some poor luck, good keeping and excellent defending. Plymouth pressed high for 15 mins, got ripped apart and then changed and sat back making it much harder. We still fashioned enough chances. Must remember it was essentially our second choice midfield (all of who were on yellow cards) and with Adams we’re basically a man light up top. Probably a bit unfair but he wasn’t great.

Edozie was well marshalled by their fullback. On the other hand Manning wasn’t exposed and apart from a couple of breakaways (including the ‘offside goal’) they didn’t fashion anything. At least until the Stephens/Baz howler.

Overall another well-deserved win, another good performance, lots of good signs around team moral etc (celebrations with Che for example). Lots of players unrecognisable from their previous selves and clearly a happy, confident camp. 

And as a match-going fan, a positive, confident atmosphere and a fun place to go. The last 5-6 years have mostly been tough (the good spell was in Covid and we couldn’t go) - it is really enjoyable at the moment.

Credit to the players, the coaches and the manager, they are all working hard and working well and it really shows.
 

Edited 30 December, 2023 by Chewy
Typos

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, fanimal said:

Having watched the highlights back Jack should have let the ball come across him then slide it down the line to KWP who was already on the move waiting for it to link up with Mara

Such a pointless lazy unnecessary back pass

Indeed it was. The only person in the stadium who was expecting a back pass was their goalscorer.

[captainchris]

7 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

I thought Plymouth made that difficult, they defended really compact and it was hard to find space. The criticism I had was we didn't move it fast enough at times in the first half, but our approach in the second half was more direct - the goal for Che was just a run over the top, which totally beats their low block and bypasses that number 10 area. 

They should have been 1-0 up though, no doubts about that. Not sure what the lino saw to suggest he was offside, but we'll take it. It was the double blow for Plymouth though as we played it quickly, caught them totally out of shape and for the first and only time we had some space in that number 10 - and Charly took that chance.

The goal at the end was frustrating because there was simply no need, we got ourselves into a muddle and Bazunu was given the ball back when he wasn't best placed to deal with it - although you can't excuse what he did. All Gk's have moments like that though, just part of the life of being a goalie.

I'm absolutely stunned at what we're putting together right now - we're better at this stage (points wise) than we were the last time we got promoted from this league. To come from where we were, at points 12-13 behind the top 2, to now being just 3 points off 2nd spot with an equal goal difference is amazing. This squad was always capable of doing this though, so it's nice to actually see a structure in place which is allowing our PL quality all over the pitch to dominate this level.

Leeds were best placed to nab 2nd, but now they're 6 points behind us so you have to say the focus is now on us. I didn't think we'd be in the automatic promotion talk at all, but we've turned it around and have put ourselves as one of the favourites to get that 2nd spot now I think.

True, as RM alluded to as well the back pass was not the best from Stephen’s who again looked rusty. A couple of games for under 23s would be a good idea for him.

[Saint_clark]

9 hours ago, The Cat said:

I see it as a way of making everyone in the squad feel part of the first team. No one is being frozen out as we saw with previous managers.

From what I hear there is a sense of togetherness throughout the squad which hasn't been there for a long time. Obviously winning helps, but the fact this is happening while everyone is getting a chance can only be a good thing. The atmosphere around the training ground is said to be one of togetherness and everyone supports each other. 

Some of the players who left before the end of the summer window, either permanently or on loan, didn't exactly have the type of personality which would help foster that type of environment.

Well the players who are consistently on the bench and not brought on, while Stephens is brought on to play regardless of whether it disrupts our formation and tactics, are pretty much frozen out. Amo-Ameyeaw and Dibling should be getting some game time. If we need a fullback on then he should be bringing Bree on, why play Stephens out of position? 

[Dark Munster]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

Well the players who are consistently on the bench and not brought on, while Stephens is brought on to play regardless of whether it disrupts our formation and tactics, are pretty much frozen out. Amo-Ameyeaw and Dibling should be getting some game time. If we need a fullback on then he should be bringing Bree on, why play Stephens out of position? 

Not on the bench, still injured presumably.

[The Cat]

7 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Well the players who are consistently on the bench and not brought on, while Stephens is brought on to play regardless of whether it disrupts our formation and tactics, are pretty much frozen out. Amo-Ameyeaw and Dibling should be getting some game time. If we need a fullback on then he should be bringing Bree on, why play Stephens out of position? 

Which players who are constantly on the bench from the first team squad aren't getting any game time?

Bree is injured isn't he?

Holgate clearly going back to Everton and not our player. Other than that I can't see anyone else this applies to.

I said I'd like the kids to get some game time but they are kids and their time will come. No doubt all this is being explained to them. Dibling would have hardly signed a new contract if he felt he was being "frozen out."