Coventry 1-1 Saints - Match Thread

[woksaintly]

New Tesla model

2 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Sideways driving bus… cool. 😎

 

[badgerx16]

If watching the tedious training ground walking football wasn't bad enough, there's Dean Hammond telling us on commentary how well Saints are playing, and any minute we are going to switch to flowing attacking football as the other team tires.

[Whitey Grandad]

6 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

If watching the tedious training ground walking football wasn't bad enough, there's Dean Hammond telling us on commentary how well Saints are playing, and any minute we are going to switch to flowing attacking football as the other team tires.

The other team are never going to tire. They can spend the whole game just sitting back and waiting for our inevitable mistakes.

[tdmickey3]

10 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

Are you Russell’s Dad?

No, he`s his hairdresser

[AlexLaw76]

25 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

If watching the tedious training ground walking football wasn't bad enough, there's Dean Hammond telling us on commentary how well Saints are playing, and any minute we are going to switch to flowing attacking football as the other team tires.

Hammond offers little objective analysis in Saintsplayer.

 

[beatlesaint]

Everytime I watch the side side back side side shuffle that is our style all I can hear in my head is Gordon Strachan's phrase "it's propoganda football"

Little substance to it at all.

[adrian lord]

After getting back to 1-1 any normal team would have been galvanised to go for the Coventry jugular. But we melted away again.

[Whitey Grandad]

5 minutes ago, adrian lord said:

After getting back to 1-1 any normal team would have been galvanised to go for the Coventry jugular. But we melted away again.

No ambition. Too comfortable where we are.

[charliemiller]

Brazil in the 80s 90s used to play a similar way just keeping the ball probing back and forth .......then they would inject pace and rip thru defenses, the suddenly change of pace was lethal. At one point in the second half we started doing that I think it was when charly and fraser came on but it didnt continue sadly .

 

We need to find a variance , a way to surprise the opposition we are too predictable in attack .    

[macca155]

4 hours ago, Baird of the land said:

This dull ponderous football is Martin’s style, no clue why you’d think he’s going to revisit them.

Hope ..... just hope

[pimpin4rizeal]

We had quite a nice settled team before the sulamana injury,, alcaraz as false 9 Pace from sula and arma but this team selection deviated away quite fad from that ., with arribo and adams ., would have preffered to keep it as similar as possible with just Fraser or edozie filling in the injury ..

dont know the total stats for this but games that adams starts we don’t seem to be winning 

Edited 14 December, 2023 by pimpin4rizeal

[Whitey Grandad]

39 minutes ago, charliemiller said:

Brazil in the 80s 90s used to play a similar way just keeping the ball probing back and forth .......then they would inject pace and rip thru defenses, the suddenly change of pace was lethal. At one point in the second half we started doing that I think it was when charly and fraser came on but it didnt continue sadly .

 

We need to find a variance , a way to surprise the opposition we are too predictable in attack .    

What attack?

[Totton Saint]

1 hour ago, adrian lord said:

After getting back to 1-1 any normal team would have been galvanised to go for the Coventry jugular. But we melted away again.

They played then as if they had all t he time in the world to get a second goal No urgency or over lapping WP"s runs. Manning's corners were pathetic. Why did RM get some one else to take  them after half time?

Very boring game.

 

 

 

[RedArmy]

2 hours ago, adrian lord said:

After getting back to 1-1 any normal team would have been galvanised to go for the Coventry jugular. But we melted away again.

Apart from the 2 big chances we had to win it you mean? 

[Dellyears]

40 minutes ago, Totton Saint said:

They played then as if they had all t he time in the world to get a second goal No urgency or over lapping WP"s runs. Manning's corners were pathetic. Why did RM get some one else to take  them after half time?

Very boring game.

 

 

 

Its the boring style which upsets me. Saints have always been an attacking team, we've always had goalscorers from Charlie Wayman until now, but its now so predictable, crab football, sideways and back over and over. No one to make a defence frightened, just so leisurely, I'll swear I've seen people fall asleep

[Saint Keef]

It was like watching some of Manchester City's play. When I say "some of Manchester City" I mean Chester City.

[derry]

Manning put the cross in for the goal, luckily it wasn't that good and the flick on got it to Edozie who finished well. I just don't get Russell Martin picking him not only that, he couldn't wait to put him back in with Bree playing well compounded with taking Bree off in a couple of games and weakening the defence by putting Manning on. He lost the ball for the goal against last night. His positional play is abysmal. Because he only uses his left foot when he receives the ball he virtually always turns right and passes backwards.  He roams about all over the place but doesn't defend the left side of the back four. He gives the ball away and doesn't tackle so why does Martin keep playing him and leaving a big open door down our left? A competent left back is urgently needed.

As for the game, 72% possession, most of it backwards and sideways, the result six more corners, one more shot of which we had one less on target and the same goals. That means we just aren't doing anything with our possession. Besides the possession percentage just means we are recycling the ball with little short going nowhere passes which are counted and result in the 72%. 

I watched Ipswich playing aggressive purposeful football and pressuring Watford into making mistakes. As different as chalk and cheese.

Three of the back four were fine, Smallbone just recycles to anyone in any direction, Charles worked hard, Stewart worked hard but without much help in attack, Aribo had spells but I'm not sure he gives us much. Up front, Che was hopeless again whilst AA buzzed around but wasted a number of shooting opportunities by not hitting the target. I just felt it was a disjointed performance with too many square pegs in round holes, namely Manning, Aribo, Adams and Smallbone. 

This team is good enough to be an also ran in the playoffs however it's not really a well selected team and really is just scraping results. The sideways crap is stopping us being attacked until we give the ball away. It is totally predictable and easy to counter and is in need of two good goalscorers to add to Armstrong.

[trousers]

11 hours ago, macca155 said:

 

Our football is so dull and exhausting to watch. I like Martin, I think he is a good manager overall but he has to revisit these tactics. None of the decent sides play this way, and it is pretty obvious why. 

 

6 hours ago, Baird of the land said:

This dull ponderous football is Martin’s style, no clue why you’d think he’s going to revisit them.

The most frustrating thing to me is that Martin *CAN* adjust his tactics to be more direct and incisive BUT he only does this rarely, such as versus Leeds and Cardiff. 

It might be coincidental but he only seems to throw off the shackles when a bit of fan unrest starts to bubble up. So I wouldn't be surprised if we see a deviation from the default, purer more turgid version of Russ-ball at this weekend's game... 

I believe the "yeah, but we're unbeaten" mantra/propaganda* is counter-productive. The longer we go unbeaten the more complacent we get (IMO)... The odd defeat here and there  often has the effect of re-galvanising a team... I'll probably be called a nutter but I reckon there's every chance we'd have got more points from the last 13 games if there had been one or two defeats in amongst them. In other words, a defeat and 2 wins is more fruitful than 2 draws and a victory... 

(* take your pick)

Edited 14 December, 2023 by trousers

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, trousers said:

 

The most frustrating thing to me is that Martin *CAN* change tactics to be more direct and incisive BUT he only does this rarely, such as versus Leeds and Cardiff. 

It might be coincidental but he only seems to throw off the shackles when a bit of fan unrest starts to bubble up. So I wouldn't be surprised if we see a deviation from the default, purer more turgid version of Russ-ball at this weekend's game... 

I believe the "yeah, but we're unbeaten" mantra/propaganda* is counter-productive. The longer we go unbeaten the more complacent we get (IMO)... The odd defeat here and there  often has the effect of re-galvanising a team... I'll probably be called a nutter but I reckon there's every chance we'd have got more points from the last 13 games if there had been one or two defeats in amongst them. In other words, a defeat and 2 wins is more fruitful than 2 draws and a victory... 

(* take your pick)

Agree with that. Shades of Huddersfield in League One when it seemed like it became more important at a certain point to protect the unbeaten run rather than to win games of football. I think it's a mentality thing more than anything not just tactics. 

[macca155]

25 minutes ago, trousers said:

 

The most frustrating thing to me is that Martin *CAN* adjust his tactics to be more direct and incisive BUT he only does this rarely, such as versus Leeds and Cardiff. 

It might be coincidental but he only seems to throw off the shackles when a bit of fan unrest starts to bubble up. So I wouldn't be surprised if we see a deviation from the default, purer more turgid version of Russ-ball at this weekend's game... 

I believe the "yeah, but we're unbeaten" mantra/propaganda* is counter-productive. The longer we go unbeaten the more complacent we get (IMO)... The odd defeat here and there  often has the effect of re-galvanising a team... I'll probably be called a nutter but I reckon there's every chance we'd have got more points from the last 13 games if there had been one or two defeats in amongst them. In other words, a defeat and 2 wins is more fruitful than 2 draws and a victory... 

(* take your pick)

Totally agree, being unbeaten is starting to hang around like a bad smell, we all know that sooner or later a defeat is coming. As you say embrace it when it does and use the pain to galvanise the team.

[northam soul]

2 minutes ago, macca155 said:

Totally agree, being unbeaten is starting to hang around like a bad smell, we all know that sooner or later a defeat is coming. As you say embrace it when it does and use the pain to galvanise the team.

But apparently the draw against Watford was being treated like a defeat by the players and was going to galvanise them against Cov.

Our necessity to constantly pass back and forwards across the half way line is like watching my late gran reverse into a parking space.

Just numbing and wastes time which is fine if you’re three or four up (yeh right)

It’s like 8 manoeuvres when 2 will do as all we achieve is allow the opposition to get set defensively as they know we lack quality to break them down.

We don’t have the power and pace which a lot of the other teams have to counter that ruthlessly either.

[Greedyfly]

16 hours ago, trousers said:

I refer the right honourable gentleman to my previous observational post...

Lol yep, spot on summary that.  My bad for not reading

[saintant]

45 minutes ago, derry said:

Manning put the cross in for the goal, luckily it wasn't that good and the flick on got it to Edozie who finished well. I just don't get Russell Martin picking him not only that, he couldn't wait to put him back in with Bree playing well compounded with taking Bree off in a couple of games and weakening the defence by putting Manning on. He lost the ball for the goal against last night. His positional play is abysmal. Because he only uses his left foot when he receives the ball he virtually always turns right and passes backwards.  He roams about all over the place but doesn't defend the left side of the back four. He gives the ball away and doesn't tackle so why does Martin keep playing him and leaving a big open door down our left? A competent left back is urgently needed.

As for the game, 72% possession, most of it backwards and sideways, the result six more corners, one more shot of which we had one less on target and the same goals. That means we just aren't doing anything with our possession. Besides the possession percentage just means we are recycling the ball with little short going nowhere passes which are counted and result in the 72%. 

I watched Ipswich playing aggressive purposeful football and pressuring Watford into making mistakes. As different as chalk and cheese.

Three of the back four were fine, Smallbone just recycles to anyone in any direction, Charles worked hard, Stewart worked hard but without much help in attack, Aribo had spells but I'm not sure he gives us much. Up front, Che was hopeless again whilst AA buzzed around but wasted a number of shooting opportunities by not hitting the target. I just felt it was a disjointed performance with too many square pegs in round holes, namely Manning, Aribo, Adams and Smallbone. 

This team is good enough to be an also ran in the playoffs however it's not really a well selected team and really is just scraping results. The sideways crap is stopping us being attacked until we give the ball away. It is totally predictable and easy to counter and is in need of two good goalscorers to add to Armstrong.

You give Manning too much credit - the cross came from Fraser.

[Channons Windmill]

I can’t be the only one who covers his eyes watching us play pretty triangles to and fro across our own penalty area can I? The sort of thing that was coached out of most players by the time they’re ten….

Also, I watched the highlights of an old game at The Dell recently (Liverpool, the one where Channon finished off a great team move) and it struck me how Joe Aribo runs in exactly the same way as that great striker of ours, Keith Cassells….  

[Whitey Grandad]

8 minutes ago, Channons Windmill said:

I can’t be the only one who covers his eyes watching us play pretty triangles to and fro across our own penalty area can I? The sort of thing that was coached out of most players by the time they’re ten….

Also, I watched the highlights of an old game at The Dell recently (Liverpool, the one where Channon finished off a great team move) and it struck me how Joe Aribo runs in exactly the same way as that great striker of ours, Keith Cassells….  

I don’t cover my eyes. I close them and fall asleep.

[gio1saints]

So so many upset saying Saints are boring predictable and worst of all - being unbeaten!

Damn Martin and his boring predictable unbeaten football!

My view is I will take boring predictable unbeaten 13 matches in a row 100/100 times thank you very much. I’m not used to seeing saints do this - only in my dreams do we go unbeaten every week. We Draw when we play bad, we win when we play ok and we’ve not even hit top gear and our attackers apart from AA cannot score. God knows if we could actually score and these missed shots went in where we’d be!! Yet it’s not good enough apparently. 
 

There’s even an argument if only we could lose and get “galvanised” - didn’t we have enough of being “galvanised” every week last season???
 

I would rather be Saints this season than the other teams  (bar a couple) who have spent most of their matches against us with a deep back line playing anti-football hoping for breakaways and set pieces. 

A 13 match run in which we have often not played our best yet remain unbeaten is a bloody good sign of things to come. Used to be a sign of a good team. Here, and this bemuses me, it’s a badge of shame - for some. 

 

 

[wild-saint]

5 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

So so many upset saying Saints are boring predictable and worst of all - being unbeaten!

Damn Martin and his boring predictable unbeaten football!

My view is I will take boring predictable unbeaten 13 matches in a row 100/100 times thank you very much. I’m not used to seeing saints do this - only in my dreams do we go unbeaten every week. We Draw when we play bad, we win when we play ok and we’ve not even hit top gear and our attackers apart from AA cannot score. God knows if we could actually score and these missed shots went in where we’d be!! Yet it’s not good enough apparently. 
 

There’s even an argument if only we could lose and get “galvanised” - didn’t we have enough of being “galvanised” every week last season???
 

I would rather be Saints this season than the other teams  (bar a couple) who have spent most of their matches against us with a deep back line playing anti-football hoping for breakaways and set pieces. 

A 13 match run in which we have often not played our best yet remain unbeaten is a bloody good sign of things to come. Used to be a sign of a good team. Here, and this bemuses me, it’s a badge of shame - for some. 

 

 

Oh please your sermons are even more dull than saints football. 

Unbeaten runs mean nothing with 1 point for a draw and 3 for a win. We had 2 massively winnable games if we had played a more attacking style and took some risks going forward rather than the first instinct to turn and play the ball backwards. if we had gone for the throat in both games and only won 1 we would be a point better off than we are currently. 

Next season we will play the same dull football with worse players as the better ones leave and are replaced by championship journeymen whilst we morph in to the midtable Swansea side.

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

 

The most frustrating thing to me is that Martin *CAN* adjust his tactics to be more direct and incisive BUT he only does this rarely, such as versus Leeds and Cardiff. 

It might be coincidental but he only seems to throw off the shackles when a bit of fan unrest starts to bubble up. So I wouldn't be surprised if we see a deviation from the default, purer more turgid version of Russ-ball at this weekend's game... 

I believe the "yeah, but we're unbeaten" mantra/propaganda* is counter-productive. The longer we go unbeaten the more complacent we get (IMO)... The odd defeat here and there  often has the effect of re-galvanising a team... I'll probably be called a nutter but I reckon there's every chance we'd have got more points from the last 13 games if there had been one or two defeats in amongst them. In other words, a defeat and 2 wins is more fruitful than 2 draws and a victory... 

(* take your pick)

So much bollocks on this you must be on the wind up.

Leeds came for us in that first half and we ripped them a new one, the 2nd half performance from Leeds was very different.  Cardiff are just a shit and angry team, easy pickings for us.  Birmingham tried to beat us at our own game too and were made to look piss poor.  This isn't the "shackles" being loosened, do you honestly believe any manager would apply shackles to their team??  That's just weird, bullshit and feeds all the bollocks you and many others chuck at the manager and the team.

Whilst we're at it... could someone care to explain what the fuck "propaganda football" is whilst sticking to the true meanings of those words and relating it to a style of play.  WGS was funny at times but he was talking utter bollocks then, makes no sense.

 

[Oldandtired]

Point of the game is not to be top of the stats when it comes to number of passes 10 yards either side of the halfway line it's to be top of the stats for banging the bag of wind into that funny little rectangular thing with the net behind it. The current manager does not seem to be able to grasp that and so I fear will condemn us, as has been said above, to become that mediocre championship team at best or even a slide down into the next league below us waving to the neighbours as they pass us on the way up. 

[derry]

1 hour ago, saintant said:

You give Manning too much credit - the cross came from Fraser.

no replays on Sky red button. 

[gecko]

It's nice to see at least a few level heads on here after last night. Yeah it's frustrating not to pick up all three points, against a team we should have beat; doubly frustrating seeing us not make the most of a rare Leeds loss, but it is what it is.

We made more than enough good chances to have won that game comfortably. Arma's shooting boots were obviously left on the bus - he had three big opportunities and blazed two over, and delayed too much on a clean through ball from Che.

I know people hate the xG stat, but its at least more contextual than simple "Shots/Shots on Target" ones. What I find really frustrating is that we seem to be creating as many good opportunities per game as the two at the top, but they just aren't translating into the same results. There's some massive outliers in that table; like Leicester letting in just over half what would be expected, and we're underscoring significantly vs what we should be.
It certainly explains why we are where we are, and so are Leicester. It also gives me confidence that although I also find the posession stuff a little dull, like many of you lot do, we are at least creating a reasonable amount of chances, even if the 5 minute build up to every single one of them makes it feel like we dont. 

We've known for ages that AA and Che are somewhat unreliable as finishers, so I suppose it's not much of a surprise that we don't score more. I also saw someone had linked a table earlier on showing our scorers. Pretty sure it was Charlie + Stu both having ~24ish shots for 1 goal each... there's our real problem; an extra few goals from them would do us the world of good and tip the 1-1's into 2-1's instead.

[Chez]

1 hour ago, derry said:

Manning put the cross in for the goal, luckily it wasn't that good and the flick on got it to Edozie who finished well. I just don't get Russell Martin picking him not only that, he couldn't wait to put him back in with Bree playing well compounded with taking Bree off in a couple of games and weakening the defence by putting Manning on. He lost the ball for the goal against last night. His positional play is abysmal. Because he only uses his left foot when he receives the ball he virtually always turns right and passes backwards.  He roams about all over the place but doesn't defend the left side of the back four. He gives the ball away and doesn't tackle so why does Martin keep playing him and leaving a big open door down our left? A competent left back is urgently needed.

Not sure we always agree on players, tactics and what we have both seen in games, derry, but I can't agree with you more here.

I spent a couple of years moaning about how the Perraud signing wasn't indicative of the gradual erosion of quality at the club and I fear I will be moaning about another left back for a couple of years.

I honestly don't know what he is particularly good at. His touch is OK, and that matters a lot in high level football I suppose, but his choice of passing is absolutely dreadful, often trying to thread balls through the eye of a needle when he simply doesn't have the skillset to achieve it. He is not a great dribbler, has no trick or pace and his crossing is pretty average. To describe him as an attacking fullback is basically just another way of saying he is poor defensively.

And he is. He isn't quicker running towards his own goal, never gets tight, always seems to be out of position and just doesn't make it difficult for his opponent. Unless RM has specifically told him not to go out to meet wingers and stop crosses, then I don't understand why the manager hasn't identified that as an issue. 

I know we have been unlucky with the Larios injury, but I've lost count now of the seasons we have `got by' with one left back and cover provided by KWP. Not easy to sign players in January, but getting a left back (perhaps on loan) should be our priority. 

[gio1saints]

Excellent summary @gecko. 

I applaud your bravery. 

I agree that failure to score from our possession and chances created is what’s missing.

I disagree with those that say that our boring predictable possession dominance is why we do not score chances and hence not winning and in top two. They are non sequitur.

So many arguments on here arise because posters confuse “ “possession-football” with “failure to score from chances created”.
 

If you’re going to be upset with Saints RM whatever at  least do it for the more legitimate reason - because the current style of play is creating more than enough chances for us to be in the top two yet we consistently fail to hit the back of the net. Moan about that - not the seemingly working very efficiently possession inspired conveyor belt that is delivering xyz chances to our misfiring forwards every match. 
 

It’s NOT the so called boring  predictable crab football that is the problem. We simply are not finishing enough of the chances it creates. And yet 13 unbeaten. Go figure how bad must we be…

Edited 14 December, 2023 by gio1saints

[Dark Munster]

16 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

Excellent summary @gecko. 

I applaud your bravery. 

I agree that failure to score from our possession and chances created is what’s missing.

I disagree with those that say that our boring predictable possession dominance is why we do not score chances and hence not winning and in top two. They are non sequitur.

So many arguments on here arise because posters confuse “ “possession-football” with “failure to score from chances created”.
 

If you’re going to be upset with Saints RM whatever at  least do it for the more legitimate reason - because the current style of play is creating more than enough chances for us to be in the top two yet we consistently fail to hit the back of the net. Moan about that - not the seemingly working very efficiently possession inspired conveyor belt that is delivering xyz chances to our misfiring forwards every match. 
 

It’s NOT the so called boring  predictable crab football that is the problem. We simply are not finishing enough of the chances it creates. And yet 13 unbeaten. Go figure how bad must we be…

It’s been established that @notnowcato is Russell’s hairdresser, so you must be his Dad. 

[Toussaint]

I'm getting a bit frustrated with the current trend to laud our "success" in contrast to last seasons performances. Just to be clear, we are a whole league lower than last season, this league is not just a league lower, its pretty much a Richter Scale like difference between the premier league and the championship. We have a lot of premier league standard players and are arguably one of the powerhouses, or should be, of this league. A lot of teams we come up against are absolute dross. So if you are happy with this "unbeaten run" credit to you. I am not, we are massively underperforming in my opinion and have been very unconvincing during this run.

 

The play offs are a lottery, we are by no means certain of achieving promotion via that route. 

[sfc4prem]

1 hour ago, gecko said:

It's nice to see at least a few level heads on here after last night. Yeah it's frustrating not to pick up all three points, against a team we should have beat; doubly frustrating seeing us not make the most of a rare Leeds loss, but it is what it is.

We made more than enough good chances to have won that game comfortably. Arma's shooting boots were obviously left on the bus - he had three big opportunities and blazed two over, and delayed too much on a clean through ball from Che.

I know people hate the xG stat, but its at least more contextual than simple "Shots/Shots on Target" ones. What I find really frustrating is that we seem to be creating as many good opportunities per game as the two at the top, but they just aren't translating into the same results. There's some massive outliers in that table; like Leicester letting in just over half what would be expected, and we're underscoring significantly vs what we should be.
It certainly explains why we are where we are, and so are Leicester. It also gives me confidence that although I also find the posession stuff a little dull, like many of you lot do, we are at least creating a reasonable amount of chances, even if the 5 minute build up to every single one of them makes it feel like we dont. 

We've known for ages that AA and Che are somewhat unreliable as finishers, so I suppose it's not much of a surprise that we don't score more. I also saw someone had linked a table earlier on showing our scorers. Pretty sure it was Charlie + Stu both having ~24ish shots for 1 goal each... there's our real problem; an extra few goals from them would do us the world of good and tip the 1-1's into 2-1's instead.

So true. Last time we were down here we had Lambo and Lallana leading the way but also had loads of others chipping in.

[Graffito]

1 hour ago, Chez said:

Not sure we always agree on players, tactics and what we have both seen in games, derry, but I can't agree with you more here.

I spent a couple of years moaning about how the Perraud signing wasn't indicative of the gradual erosion of quality at the club and I fear I will be moaning about another left back for a couple of years.

I honestly don't know what he is particularly good at. His touch is OK, and that matters a lot in high level football I suppose, but his choice of passing is absolutely dreadful, often trying to thread balls through the eye of a needle when he simply doesn't have the skillset to achieve it. He is not a great dribbler, has no trick or pace and his crossing is pretty average. To describe him as an attacking fullback is basically just another way of saying he is poor defensively.

And he is. He isn't quicker running towards his own goal, never gets tight, always seems to be out of position and just doesn't make it difficult for his opponent. Unless RM has specifically told him not to go out to meet wingers and stop crosses, then I don't understand why the manager hasn't identified that as an issue. 

I know we have been unlucky with the Larios injury, but I've lost count now of the seasons we have `got by' with one left back and cover provided by KWP. Not easy to sign players in January, but getting a left back (perhaps on loan) should be our priority. 

I’ve noticed this too. When he’s in line with his defence (ie not left stranded upfield) he often plays close to Bednarek. I think he does it because if he goes out to the winger he’ll get isolated one on one and likely get done for pace. Danny Fox used to do the same thing, probably for the same reason.

While I’m moaning about Manning, so often he plays a short ball inside to a CB. It’s partly his body position when he receives the ball. I’d like to see him open up his body position more often to allow the possibility of a ball up the line or, riskier, into midfield. At least it would put a bit of doubt in the minds of the opposition, but it’s predictable. I wonder whether Coventry noticed this last night. They doubled up on him as he tried to go inside, won the ball and scored. 

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Chez said:

Not sure we always agree on players, tactics and what we have both seen in games, derry, but I can't agree with you more here.

I spent a couple of years moaning about how the Perraud signing wasn't indicative of the gradual erosion of quality at the club and I fear I will be moaning about another left back for a couple of years.

I honestly don't know what he is particularly good at. His touch is OK, and that matters a lot in high level football I suppose, but his choice of passing is absolutely dreadful, often trying to thread balls through the eye of a needle when he simply doesn't have the skillset to achieve it. He is not a great dribbler, has no trick or pace and his crossing is pretty average. To describe him as an attacking fullback is basically just another way of saying he is poor defensively.

And he is. He isn't quicker running towards his own goal, never gets tight, always seems to be out of position and just doesn't make it difficult for his opponent. Unless RM has specifically told him not to go out to meet wingers and stop crosses, then I don't understand why the manager hasn't identified that as an issue. 

I know we have been unlucky with the Larios injury, but I've lost count now of the seasons we have `got by' with one left back and cover provided by KWP. Not easy to sign players in January, but getting a left back (perhaps on loan) should be our priority. 

We already have Bree who has proved he can do a better job than Manning at left back. Our problem is that RM doesn't recognise the fact and has shoe horned Manning back into his team at the first opportunity. He should have left Bree in the team until such time as he cocked up. Manning cocked up again yesterday but how many think RM will drop him this weekend? You have to feel sorry for Bree who was dropped for doing nothing other than performing well.

Edited 14 December, 2023 by saintant

[gio1saints]

On topic of Mannings performance: Left back does seem our least strong area.
 

I think if we start with a left winger versus Blackburn it will be Bree at LB not Manning.If Sam starts for instance I expect Bree to start also. 

IMO manning is considered (reputationally) to be the better attacking left back of the two, particularly when we have no left winger.  Defensively Bree has looked a safer pair of hands. 
 

I think we are lucky that we have two decent options at LB ( caveat: for this level ) both would likely start in most bottom 14 championship teams in this league, I think. 

Interesting that one of last years championship top left backs ( Burnley’s Maatsen ) seems likely to be unloaded by Chelsea it seems. Doubt we could afford him or his wages unfortunately though as he is certainly a talent and a high end left back could make a massive difference - that and/or more goal productive forwards/ wingers. 

 

[malcolm waldron]

27 minutes ago, Graffito said:

I’ve noticed this too. When he’s in line with his defence (ie not left stranded upfield) he often plays close to Bednarek. I think he does it because if he goes out to the winger he’ll get isolated one on one and likely get done for pace. Danny Fox used to do the same thing, probably for the same reason.

While I’m moaning about Manning, so often he plays a short ball inside to a CB. It’s partly his body position when he receives the ball. I’d like to see him open up his body position more often to allow the possibility of a ball up the line or, riskier, into midfield. At least it would put a bit of doubt in the minds of the opposition, but it’s predictable. I wonder whether Coventry noticed this last night. They doubled up on him as he tried to go inside, won the ball and scored. 

The only thing i disgree with you in that sentence is the word partly.  EVERY time he prepares to receive the ball, or sets himself up following a first touch is with his body fully in field (i.e. back parallel with the touchline).  As a result every ball is passed in field, condensing the play, or he is forced to run in field with the ball, condensing the play.  This happens every time and so he must be being coached to do this.  Why?  Is it to create space outside him?  I don't know but I'd love someone to tell me. 

[Fabrice29]

1 hour ago, Toussaint said:

I'm getting a bit frustrated with the current trend to laud our "success" in contrast to last seasons performances. Just to be clear, we are a whole league lower than last season, this league is not just a league lower, its pretty much a Richter Scale like difference between the premier league and the championship. We have a lot of premier league standard players and are arguably one of the powerhouses, or should be, of this league. A lot of teams we come up against are absolute dross. So if you are happy with this "unbeaten run" credit to you. I am not, we are massively underperforming in my opinion and have been very unconvincing during this run.

 

The play offs are a lottery, we are by no means certain of achieving promotion via that route. 

This attitude and belief will never not confuse me because I'm just looking at our squads recent results in the PL and guess what...we really weren't up to standard for quite a while. KWP aside, there really isn't much proven premier league players in our team.

We've also got 1 fit player in our squad who has scored goals on a regular basis over more than just 1 season, at any level and guess what...he's the only one scoring regular for us now (and regularly blasting the ball over from 6 yards). It's hardly a shock we don't score goals. 

But yeah, lets get back to arguing about Manning and Martin  

 

Edited 14 December, 2023 by Fabrice29

[stknowle]

2 hours ago, gio1saints said:

So so many upset saying Saints are boring predictable and worst of all - being unbeaten!

Damn Martin and his boring predictable unbeaten football!

My view is I will take boring predictable unbeaten 13 matches in a row 100/100 times thank you very much. I’m not used to seeing saints do this - only in my dreams do we go unbeaten every week. We Draw when we play bad, we win when we play ok and we’ve not even hit top gear and our attackers apart from AA cannot score. God knows if we could actually score and these missed shots went in where we’d be!! Yet it’s not good enough apparently. 
 

There’s even an argument if only we could lose and get “galvanised” - didn’t we have enough of being “galvanised” every week last season???
 

I would rather be Saints this season than the other teams  (bar a couple) who have spent most of their matches against us with a deep back line playing anti-football hoping for breakaways and set pieces. 

A 13 match run in which we have often not played our best yet remain unbeaten is a bloody good sign of things to come. Used to be a sign of a good team. Here, and this bemuses me, it’s a badge of shame - for some. 

 

 

Whilst your posts are generally condescending, irritating and patronising (the one where you bizarrely lost it and offered someone out last week being a bit of an outlier) I do agree about the galvanising thing. Hoping we get beaten to shake us out of this unbeaten run malaise we find ourselves in is fucking ridiculous.

[stknowle]

2 hours ago, Chez said:

Not sure we always agree on players, tactics and what we have both seen in games, derry, but I can't agree with you more here.

I spent a couple of years moaning about how the Perraud signing wasn't indicative of the gradual erosion of quality at the club and I fear I will be moaning about another left back for a couple of years.

I honestly don't know what he is particularly good at. His touch is OK, and that matters a lot in high level football I suppose, but his choice of passing is absolutely dreadful, often trying to thread balls through the eye of a needle when he simply doesn't have the skillset to achieve it. He is not a great dribbler, has no trick or pace and his crossing is pretty average. To describe him as an attacking fullback is basically just another way of saying he is poor defensively.

And he is. He isn't quicker running towards his own goal, never gets tight, always seems to be out of position and just doesn't make it difficult for his opponent. Unless RM has specifically told him not to go out to meet wingers and stop crosses, then I don't understand why the manager hasn't identified that as an issue. 

I know we have been unlucky with the Larios injury, but I've lost count now of the seasons we have `got by' with one left back and cover provided by KWP. Not easy to sign players in January, but getting a left back (perhaps on loan) should be our priority. 

Alarm bells started ringing after that 5 star fuck up against Norwich and they've been ringing ever since. 

[trousers]

3 hours ago, notnowcato said:

So much bollocks on this you must be on the wind up.

Leeds came for us in that first half and we ripped them a new one, the 2nd half performance from Leeds was very different.  Cardiff are just a shit and angry team, easy pickings for us.  Birmingham tried to beat us at our own game too and were made to look piss poor.  This isn't the "shackles" being loosened, do you honestly believe any manager would apply shackles to their team??  That's just weird, bullshit and feeds all the bollocks you and many others chuck at the manager and the team.

Whilst we're at it... could someone care to explain what the fuck "propaganda football" is whilst sticking to the true meanings of those words and relating it to a style of play.  WGS was funny at times but he was talking utter bollocks then, makes no sense.

 

We'll have to agree to differ. A foreign concept on this forum, granted. 

[The Kraken]

9 minutes ago, trousers said:

We'll have to agree to differ. A foreign concept on this forum, granted. 

No it isn’t.

[trousers]

4 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

No it isn’t.

Oh yes it is

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, gio1saints said:

Excellent summary @gecko. 

I applaud your bravery. 

I agree that failure to score from our possession and chances created is what’s missing.

I disagree with those that say that our boring predictable possession dominance is why we do not score chances and hence not winning and in top two. They are non sequitur.

So many arguments on here arise because posters confuse “ “possession-football” with “failure to score from chances created”.
 

If you’re going to be upset with Saints RM whatever at  least do it for the more legitimate reason - because the current style of play is creating more than enough chances for us to be in the top two yet we consistently fail to hit the back of the net. Moan about that - not the seemingly working very efficiently possession inspired conveyor belt that is delivering xyz chances to our misfiring forwards every match. 
 

It’s NOT the so called boring  predictable crab football that is the problem. We simply are not finishing enough of the chances it creates. And yet 13 unbeaten. Go figure how bad must we be…

I know people hate the stats but solent mentioned that our xg over I think the last five games is 1 which means we are in fact scoring the chances we are getting we just aren't making many... 

[Jack]

On 13/12/2023 at 18:03, Jack said:

1-1 

78% possession, 2 on target, Russ delighted 

Sadly not far off. 
 

I think we’re 4th and on this amazing unbeaten run despite of Russball, not because of it. Some of the games we’ve drawn, we should’ve blown the opposition away. Coventry offered very little and we gifted them a route into the game. Laughably, from refusing a decent chance to break forward quickly in favour of fannying around at the back, and getting caught on the ball. 
 

90+5, instead of trying to win it we’re content on playing triangles in our own 6 yard area with Baz and the CBs. Others find it funny but for me it’s infuriating. I’m sure Russ loves it but these points aren’t as good as he’ll take credit for 

[davefizzy14]

From the extended highlights on the OS, we created a whole host of chances especially after we equalised, so people moaning about our style of play is bizarre.  We have to be more clinical thats plain to see. Pleased to see Edozie grab a goal potentially he starts on Saturday.  Dissapointing how we conceded but will take the point and onto Saturday. 

Edited 14 December, 2023 by davefizzy14

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

22 hours ago, Convict Colony said:

Ok ignore me I am genuinely angry about this game.

That is 11 games in the league now (out of 21) where we have scored 1 goal or less which for a bloke who bigs up possession style but says about the goalscoring " we will get it right etc etc" is fucking shocking if you want to consistently win games.

Someone ask him how Leicester score for fun, how Ipswich do it or how does Daniel "I dont give a" Farke gets his teams scoring a few goals more. 

Also why is Che Adams shit in a league he scored loads in, why is the Scottish Mr Glass always broken and why did Adam Armstrong think tonight kicking over the bar counted as points (apologies Arma but your friendly fire).

Why does Manning think its fine to do a Stu Armstrong impression and lose the ball just outside the box game after game leading to conceding a goal.

Who put Joe Aribo on the left wing to start ?

Are midfielders allowed to shoot ?

When will someone ask Martin why his teams cant score a lot and every fuck up cost up a win or a draw.

Also goalscorers list is a joke, check how much more balanced Leicester's is.

Ok for the rest of the season i will predict 1-0 cos we are shit goalscorers.

What doesn't RM get? Like someone said, we had 12% less than our usual 70% possession against Cardiff and looked thoroughly dominant. Yet we quickly revert to this bore fest. I know Egg and a few others warned us to be prepared for this shit, but what's right about it? As Convict shows, at best we scrape wins. Against Coventry, it's the usual fuck about passing to nowhere and then when they score we make changes and chase the game. And when it's the other way around and score first, we sit back and try to hold on.

Just one of our players costs more than the entire squad of Sheff Wed, Plymouth, Rotherham, Ipswich and Huddersfield. We have have the most expensively assembled squad in the championship by a country mile and while I appreciate that doesn't entitle us to be the best team, I still expect us to trounce some teams.

C'mon RM. Speed up our game.