Ryan Manning

[Sheaf Saint]

1 hour ago, gio1saints said:

@Fabrice29is not saying Ryan is the best Left back in the league or even in the team, he’s explained why it sometimes appears the left back is a weak spot. It’s Russell’s call not Ryan’s. Blame Russell if you don’t like the tactic that, occasionally, encourages the direct ball exploiting the space ( often ) available in our left back area. 

And it might not be amiss for some of you to chill with the exaggerated negative comments on Ryan. Makes you sound like Pompey fans. 

It’s been explained very clearly by @Fabrice29 and by @The Cat but one last time : 

When KWP goes forward with ball running - wherever he likes but usually on RH side and central - it is because he and the team know he is allowed to do so. He is a ( arguably THE) key disrupter for us of opposition defensive tactics. He is specifically told and allowed to do this by Russell. 
 

KWP attacking triggers an immediate response for the rest of the defence. They shuffle across - which means the LB ( Ryan Manning) tucks in more centrally, and the right CB - usually THB but can be Beds pops out a little for a temporary back three. In that moment space - and plenty of it - is obviously visible in our lb position. Less visibly so on the rh side because thats the side of play being disrupted. 
 

Given that there’s a good chance KWP will get dispossessed and a “ breakaway” is possible via a direct long ball, usually lofted, if I was an opposition manager I would reckon my players chances of successfully executing a direct pass to a forward who had to face Ryan in the obvious left hand side was higher than on the ( disrupted) rh side, where, incidentally our best defender awaits : THB. So target left back. 
 

Straight away from a height and strength and defensive ability perspective it’s no contest. THB >RM. So target left back. 
 

So blame Ryan all you like but were you to replace him with Meg - and with KWP in same free role role as before with same RM tactics - then some of you lot will be calling him “ dog shit “ etc and destroying his career before he’s even really started. RM is a pretty seasoned pro and can take the criticism - I doubt Meg could.

Who else for LB instead of Ryan?  Well obviously Bree - but I bet you willbe all over him like a rash the minute a goal goes in from that area. 

It’s up toRuss to solve that problem. Player bashing pundits like some of you far too keen to scapegoat players like Ryan, Will, etc when it’s as much /majorly our tactics that’sfundementally at the heart of the issue. 

Not defending the tactic - it’s clearly an Achilles heel of sorts- just trying to explain why in singling our Ryan you are largely missing the point. 

You've clearly taken a long time to think about and type this post, and you may well have a point about what Russ is asking him to do. But none of that explains how fucking useless he was in dealing with that second goal on Saturday. His position and inability to cover the attacker when the ball was launched forward by the keeper had nothing to do with 'tucking in' due to the RB being in a forward position, and everything to do with a total failure to anticipate danger, which is a basic pre-requisite for a defender.

[gio1saints]

Fair enough. He may not be as good as you wish at left back. He may be the weak link. Some of the evidence supports that. Other evidence suggests he contributes well to Russell’s formation. I personally think his defensive skill is limited - but that’s not the issue here for me because it’s not as if we have had fantastic alternatives fit enough uninjured enough or mature enough to replace him this season. 

We’ve been spoiled with some greats - Wayne, Gareth , Luke, but as a saints fan I’d leave it at that rather than the endless nastiness about the man. 

[Miltonaggro]

5 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

Fair enough. He may not be as good as you wish at left back. He may be the weak link. Some of the evidence supports that. Other evidence suggests he contributes well to Russell’s formation. I personally think his defensive skill is limited - but that’s not the issue here for me because it’s not as if we have had fantastic alternatives fit enough uninjured enough or mature enough to replace him this season. 

We’ve been spoiled with some greats - Wayne, Gareth , Luke, but as a saints fan I’d leave it at that rather than the endless nastiness about the man. 

Gio the ‘endless nastiness’ is a direct consequence of RM being picked by RM and the saints support having to watch him, albeit through binoculars, twice a week. It should settle down around May. 

[gio1saints]

There’s a fair chance he will start at LB and Bree at RB on Wednesday.

It will be interesting to see if Ryan is given the KWP attacking / disruptive role or James - or if it’s shared.
 

Or indeed ( and I think this is probably what most saints fans would prefer in the absence of kwp) if Russell asks them both to curb the attacking side and stay tighter defensively in the light of conceding a gazillion goals at home lately and let our talented mf and forwards get the goals. 
 

 

[notnowcato]

2 hours ago, Tommy Mulgrew said:

To me, it does not really matter whether the cause of the problem is Manning or Martin.  The problem is costing us about two goals a game at present.  Ultimately Martin has to sort that out.  Like others on here, I would prefer, in descending order, Bree, Meghoma or Stephens at LB.  Even without the required tactical adjustment to stop the problem happening so frequently, that simple change would probably reduce our goals conceded to more acceptable levels.  Surely Martin and his staff and the players can see that every one of our recent opponents has targeted No-Mannings Land and been notably successful in doing so.  As a result, our push for automatic promotion is almost over and our chances of victory in the play-offs is under threat.  If that does not galvanise action to overcome the problem, I don’t know what will.  We do not need a change of manager.  We do need our present manager to act decisively and shore up our faltering promotion challenge.  Him merely saying “rubbish goals” after every match without changing anything is no good whatsoever.  Action, not words, Russell.  Not long now until we welcome Preston.

Please tell him, gio1saints.  🙏  Thank you.

...and the end of the world nye and my toast fucking burnt this morning, whadda day!  You have to ask is it all worth it??

[notnowcato]

2 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

You've clearly taken a long time to think about and type this post, and you may well have a point about what Russ is asking him to do. But none of that explains how fucking useless he was in dealing with that second goal on Saturday. His position and inability to cover the attacker when the ball was launched forward by the keeper had nothing to do with 'tucking in' due to the RB being in a forward position, and everything to do with a total failure to anticipate danger, which is a basic pre-requisite for a defender.

The second goal was on Bednarek, if he'd left it after the shout he got from Ryan then all would have been fine. 

[Sheaf Saint]

18 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

The second goal was on Bednarek, if he'd left it after the shout he got from Ryan then all would have been fine. 

You're assuming he got a shout from Manning. No way of knowing from the replays.

Having just watched the highlights back again, I'm also at a loss to understand want RM was doing for their first goal. He's virtually on the penalty spot when the ball is played in, leaving not one but two players completely unmarked at the back. And please nobody try and tell me that's tactical.

[Tommy Mulgrew]

2 hours ago, Tommy Mulgrew said:

As a result, our push for automatic promotion is almost over and our chances of victory in the play-offs is under threat.

 

16 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

...and the end of the world nye and my toast fucking burnt this morning, whadda day!  You have to ask is it all worth it??

This was posted a few hours ago:

5 hours ago, SaintLondon said:

Opta Supercomputer giving Saints an 8.7% chance of autos now. I know nothing is done until it's done but it's such a shame that seemingly two blips are going to dictate our season. Also, madness if Leicester throw this away from where they were... 

I think you will find that an 8.7% chance justifies “almost over” and that conceding two goals a game by having Manning play the way he is at present justifies “our chances of victory in the play-offs is under threat”.

If anyone is over-reacting, it is you NNC.  Still, each to his or her own, I suppose.

[Whitey Grandad]

4 hours ago, gio1saints said:

@Fabrice29is not saying Ryan is the best Left back in the league or even in the team, he’s explained why it sometimes appears the left back is a weak spot. It’s Russell’s call not Ryan’s. Blame Russell if you don’t like the tactic that, occasionally, encourages the direct ball exploiting the space ( often ) available in our left back area. 

And it might not be amiss for some of you to chill with the exaggerated negative comments on Ryan. Makes you sound like Pompey fans. 

It’s been explained very clearly by @Fabrice29 and by @The Cat but one last time : 

When KWP goes forward with ball running - wherever he likes but usually on RH side and central - it is because he and the team know he is allowed to do so. He is a ( arguably THE) key disrupter for us of opposition defensive tactics. He is specifically told and allowed to do this by Russell. 
 

KWP attacking triggers an immediate response for the rest of the defence. They shuffle across - which means the LB ( Ryan Manning) tucks in more centrally, and the right CB - usually THB but can be Beds pops out a little for a temporary back three. In that moment space - and plenty of it - is obviously visible in our lb position. Less visibly so on the rh side because thats the side of play being disrupted. 
 

Given that there’s a good chance KWP will get dispossessed and a “ breakaway” is possible via a direct long ball, usually lofted, if I was an opposition manager I would reckon my players chances of successfully executing a direct pass to a forward who had to face Ryan in the obvious left hand side was higher than on the ( disrupted) rh side, where, incidentally our best defender awaits : THB. So target left back. 
 

Straight away from a height and strength and defensive ability perspective it’s no contest. THB >RM. So target left back. 
 

So blame Ryan all you like but were you to replace him with Meg - and with KWP in same free role role as before with same RM tactics - then some of you lot will be calling him “ dog shit “ etc and destroying his career before he’s even really started. RM is a pretty seasoned pro and can take the criticism - I doubt Meg could.

Who else for LB instead of Ryan?  Well obviously Bree - but I bet you willbe all over him like a rash the minute a goal goes in from that area. 

It’s up toRuss to solve that problem. Player bashing pundits like some of you far too keen to scapegoat players like Ryan, Will, etc when it’s as much /majorly our tactics that’sfundementally at the heart of the issue. 

Not defending the tactic - it’s clearly an Achilles heel of sorts- just trying to explain why in singling our Ryan you are largely missing the point. 

That does nothing to explain how easily he gets beaten by opposition players who just skip past him whilst he pirouettes away from them. Birmingham’s third goal is a prime example. He turns his back on his opponent.

[notnowcato]

2 minutes ago, Tommy Mulgrew said:

 

This was posted a few hours ago:

I think you will find that an 8.7% chance justifies “almost over” and that conceding two goals a game by having Manning play the way he is at present justifies “our chances of victory in the play-offs is under threat”.

If anyone is over-reacting, it is you NNC.  Still, each to his or her own, I suppose.

Super, want to offer me 14/1 on Saints to finish top 2?

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, notnowcato said:

Super, want to offer me 14/1 on Saints to finish top 2?

I will

[egg]

2 hours ago, VectisSaint said:

Whether or not Manning is out of position due to Martin's tactics, the bottom line is that he is not a very good defender. Even when "in position" he is easily beaten, and does not have enough pace to match wide players and is lacking in positional sense. In addition, he is also caught  "out of position" whenever we get a corner, because in the same way as Bertrand used to he takes corners from the diametrically opposite corner from where he is supposed to defend. This means whenever a corner attack breaks down he is so far away from being able to defend that we are left hopelessly exposed. This would be OK if he was actually really good at corners, but either his corners are not very good or we are not very good at attacking from corners, or more likely both.  Whatever way you dress it up at the moment Ryan is the weakest link in the team, and is costing us goals.

On Saturday I wasn't surprised to see Manning start. I don't think Bree was an option, anyone who saw him subbed off against Liverpool would have noticed he was absolutely out on his feet, looked completely exhausted, unsurprisingly first game back since a lay-off. Pretty sure if he had been fit he would have played on the right anyway in place of KWP (possibly with Stephens on the left, but not sure). Much as I would like to see it I don't think Martin has enough faith in Meghoma yet, which I can sort of understand when you have a misfiring defensive group and you are trying to shore it up, but struggling because of injuries. Hopefully for PNE KWP will be back, Bree will be fit and we will see a back 4 of KWP, THB, Bednarek and Bree (but I won't hold my breath).

Just coming in on this.

Meghoma isn't a credible option, yet. Bree has been injured, and is coming back. Manning is the only option. 

Manning being out of position by taking corners on the wrong side is plainly on RM.

Manning tucking in is also on RM. He did it in his first friendly game and has done it since. 

I agree though that he's not good enough defensively. 

[S-Clarke]

19 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

 

Christ. He’s not in no man’s land and he’s not heading a non existent ball. He’s literally in the perfect position to either head the ball away or bring it under control himself, and Bednarek jumps for a ball he can’t reach and flicks it over him. 

Baffling that people are trying to rationalise the guy who perfectly judged the flight of the ball is at fault instead of the guy who mis judges the ball. But hey, here we are. 

I don't think you'd ever see anything other than positive, even if he kicked the ball into our net I'm sure you'd find a way to say it wasn't his fault.

Anyone with an ounce of football experience will tell you that he needed to drop off, and someone with awareness would have known to do that. Either a lack of communication, a lack of awareness, or a mixture of both - both Bednarek and Manning were at fault in varying degrees there, it was nonsense from both of them.

Even Martin agrees as he described both of them as nonsense in that moment.

[Fabrice29]

19 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I don't think you'd ever see anything other than positive, even if he kicked the ball into our net I'm sure you'd find a way to say it wasn't his fault.

Anyone with an ounce of football experience will tell you that he needed to drop off, and someone with awareness would have known to do that. Either a lack of communication, a lack of awareness, or a mixture of both - both Bednarek and Manning were at fault in varying degrees there, it was nonsense from both of them.

Even Martin agrees as he described both of them as nonsense in that moment.

I just think that maybe the guy who misjudged a header and flicked the ball into the path of the striker might be a little more at fault than someone who didn't. So sorry for being so positive  

[Harry_SFC]

I'm less bothered about the second goal but the first and third were appalling from Manning. If he is truly being asked to play that close to Bednarek when the opposition have the ball then what the hell is Martin thinking? It is costing us goals left right and centre. 

He is one of the worst 1 v 1 defenders I've ever seen, just so, so easy to go past. 

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I will

Perfect let me know when you put the 15s up on Betfair, I’ll have a tenner but you’re welcome to put more up. 

Edited March 4 by notnowcato

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, notnowcato said:

Perfect let me know when you put the 15s up on Betfair, I’ll have a tenner but your welcome to put more up. 

Just a tenner? 

Not a believer much

[notnowcato]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Just a tenner? 

Not a believer much

You’re welcome to lay it to whatever you fancy. £10 is a big enough bet for me. 

[Sheaf Saint]

1 hour ago, Harry_SFC said:

I'm less bothered about the second goal but the first and third were appalling from Manning. If he is truly being asked to play that close to Bednarek when the opposition have the ball then what the hell is Martin thinking? It is costing us goals left right and centre. 

He is one of the worst 1 v 1 defenders I've ever seen, just so, so easy to go past. 

Mostly left 😉

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

Looking at the Jack Stephens thread and how he is being shoehorned in to the team makes you wonder if Jack could replace Manning.

Most of us would prefer Bree to Manning, but given Bree still seems to be recovering, Manning also is one that seems undropable. Can anyone remember one game where he's been even remotely competent? I can't.

[Miltonaggro]

35 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Looking at the Jack Stephens thread and how he is being shoehorned in to the team makes you wonder if Jack could replace Manning.

Most of us would prefer Bree to Manning, but given Bree still seems to be recovering, Manning also is one that seems undropable. Can anyone remember one game where he's been even remotely competent? I can't.

Up for trying that.  Then again I think we'd probably look more solid defensively with Shakin' Stevens replacing Mind the Gap Manning.

[Lighthouse]

This might be one of the worst half hour sub appearances I've ever seen.

[S-Clarke]

He is the worst left back we've ever had. If he doesn't have to defend and he can attack down the left he can be half useful and provides balance against the lesser sides, but as a defender at the top end of this league - useless, not even a debate. 

But I guess we'll have to get use to more Manning level players next year.

[Baird of the land]

He's a liability against any decent team.

[Sheaf Saint]

I find it utterly baffling that Martin could even think that bringing on Manning is the solution to one of the best full backs in the league getting torn a new one by Fatawu for 60 minutes.

"Eureka! I've got it! I'll switch my best fullback to the other flank and replace him with one of the worst defenders ever to wear a Saints shirt! They won't be expecting that!"

[benali-shorts]

Very worrying that Martin personally identified him as a key signing in the summer. He’s technically inept. 

[LegalEagle]

He’s a Sunday league player. He has very clearly shown that he’s not good enough for this level. One of Martin’s chums though. RM is a bang average manager who has an inflated sense of his own being. We all know he won’t be here long term so just get rid now.