Ryan Manning

[Fabrice29]

  

On 28/12/2023 at 17:05, Fabrice29 said:

Both Bree and KWP drift inside when playing left back. It's not a problem Martin has to or will fix if he's asking them to do it. It's a tactic he employs to cover other areas of the pitch and allows CM's to push higher up and win the ball higher up without the risk of being exploited behind them. Lots of top teams do it, it's a risk, reward thing and based on the results we're getting it seems fine. Full backs have to be out quicker of course when it goes wide, Swansea game for example, I think there was a clear plan to let the right back have the ball as he wasn't as big a threat as their centre midfield or left back for example. Manning is playing the role he's asked to, he's slightly unfairly criticised in my opinion. Especially the role he's being asked to play.

I explained this quite a while ago. He's quite clearly asked to play inside for various reasons. It frees up KWP on the other side, it creates overloads in possession in midfield and out of the ball it allows us to be more aggressive and win the ball back quicker in central areas. Also a vital part of trying to isolate our wingers against full backs because it tries to drift the right wide midfielder into mark him so they can't double up on our left winger. He does it well, he's got a good left foot allowing him to receive the ball and open up to pass to our wide player quickly when the timing is right. It means he has a lot to do when we lose possession but it's a risk/reward situation and switches to the right winger is supposed to be stopped at source.

[Fabrice29]

14 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

There is no doubt he is a big weak link in our side, but I just cannot see that it is his fault for defending the middle of the pitch and not getting out to the wide players.  It feels like it's happened all season, and it must be a tactical choice surely? Or there is no way he'd be in the side? He is ok, nothing more, but defensively he is the player who the opposition target and that should say it all really.

I think it's more the space they target than the player personally. He has a clearly defined role to be inside and we sacrifice the space on that side of the pitch occasionally. I have a very vague memory of us making KWP play inside at the start of the season and therefore sacrificing his side of the pitch, probably because his recovery pace is better suited to covering it, but people got upset by that too.

[Osvaldorama]

One of the worst defenders I’ve ever seen play for us. 
 

And that says a lot. 
 

Genuinely a horrendous, horrendous player. How does Martin keep playing him 

[derry]

It's all very well excusing Manning because he is a left back that doesn't have to play there or even make a lung bursting effort to get back. The simple fact is we are conceding most of our goals on the left side of the goal area. That in itself is costing our chances of automatic promotion. If it's so important to leave so much space on our left why don't we do it on the right? Personally I think Manning is an appalling defender. There has been countless occasions when it is obvious to everybody that we are in trouble on our left side but still Manning who is back with the centre backs and has the opportunity to move left doesn't see the danger and isn't reacting. Even if he is on the left he usually loses the attacker. 

That back four was a clusterfuck selection. Splitting the two regular centre backs was stupidity. As KWP wasn't available Bree should have replaced him with Stephens on the left. Smallbone flatters to deceive. He lacks the physical determination to even tackle. Opponents waltz past him. He spends a lot of time just unloading the ball. We need to tighten up in the middle. Downes maybe came back because he had to and was obviously not at his best. Hopefully by Wednesday he'll be feeling better. Aribo or Charles are a better bet. Admttedly when we are on top Smallbone looks better, more like a flat track bully.

Martin has made some real selection cock ups in the last five matches and we have dropped points as a result. Stop picking the favourites and pick the best team available. there is a little over eight weeks and eleven matches left but more likely could be fourteen.

Edited March 3 by derry

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Fabrice29 said:

  

I explained this quite a while ago. He's quite clearly asked to play inside for various reasons. It frees up KWP on the other side, it creates overloads in possession in midfield and out of the ball it allows us to be more aggressive and win the ball back quicker in central areas. Also a vital part of trying to isolate our wingers against full backs because it tries to drift the right wide midfielder into mark him so they can't double up on our left winger. He does it well, he's got a good left foot allowing him to receive the ball and open up to pass to our wide player quickly when the timing is right. It means he has a lot to do when we lose possession but it's a risk/reward situation and switches to the right winger is supposed to be stopped at source.

KWP didn't play today. I'm sure nobody expected THB to play remotely in the way KWP does. So if you are correct why on earth did Manning play as though KWP was the other full back?

[Osvaldorama]

6 minutes ago, saintant said:

KWP didn't play today. I'm sure nobody expected THB to play remotely in the way KWP does. So if you are correct why on earth did Manning play as though KWP was the other full back?

Because he’s not correct. 
 

Manning playing like a headless chicken positionally isn’t some master stroke or genius hipster tactic. 
 

It’s because he genuinely has no idea how to defend or where he should be. The even worse part is, his attacking play isn’t even good enough to warrant the risk. At least with Danny Fox back in the day he actually was deadly with crosses. 
 

Manning can’t defend or cross, sadly. I honestly don’t want to scapegoat him but seriously he is costing us so many goals and points. It’s baffling that the coaching team can’t see it. 

[bangkoksaint]

42 minutes ago, derry said:

It's all very well excusing Manning because he is a left back that doesn't have to play there or even make a lung bursting effort to get back. The simple fact is we are conceding most of our goals on the left side of the goal area. That in itself is costing our chances of automatic promotion. If it's so important to leave so much space on our left why don't we do it on the right? Personally I think Manning is an appalling defender. There has been countless occasions when it is obvious to everybody that we are in trouble on our left side but still Manning who is back with the centre backs and has the opportunity to move left doesn't see the danger and isn't reacting. Even if he is on the left he usually loses the attacker. 

That back four was a clusterfuck selection. Splitting the two regular centre backs was stupidity. As KWP wasn't available Bree should have replaced him with Stephens on the left. Smallbone flatters to deceive. He lacks the physical determination to even tackle. Opponents waltz past him. He spends a lot of time just unloading the ball. We need to tighten up in the middle. Downes maybe came back because he had to and was obviously not at his best. Hopefully by Wednesday he'll be feeling better. Aribo or Charles are a better bet. Admttedly when we are on top Smallbone looks better, more like a flat track bully.

Martin has made some real selection cock ups in the last five matches and we have dropped points as a result. Stop picking the favourites and pick the best team available. there is a little over eight weeks and twelve matches left but more likely could be fifteen.

I think there’s some arrogance with RM’s team selection and he thinks he can be cleverer than he is. Pep did it IIRC in a CL final and it backfired. I think RM has an air of this about him and it may come back and cost us. After WBA the team selected itself but no, he had to do  something smart and the rest as they say is history. I’ve seen a lot of us this season and FWIW the playoffs is our level but we won’t have enough about us to get over the line.

[Dark Munster]

2 hours ago, bangkoksaint said:

I think there’s some arrogance with RM’s team selection and he thinks he can be cleverer than he is. Pep did it IIRC in a CL final and it backfired. I think RM has an air of this about him and it may come back and cost us. After WBA the team selected itself but no, he had to do  something smart and the rest as they say is history. I’ve seen a lot of us this season and FWIW the playoffs is our level but we won’t have enough about us to get over the line.

Exactly, I couldn't agree more. He's like an addict, when he hits rock bottom (e.g. Sunderland away) he's forced to go on the straight and narrow (pick a common sense midfield and defense). But after a while the temptation comes back to try, and fail, to be a Pep-light genius again.

He's suffering from Rasmusitis. If it isn't broken, break it.

[AlexLaw76]

By some distance, the worst player (again)

[Convict Colony]

Its amazing.

Last season his goals and assist stats at swansea were awesome which would make up for his lack of defending, this season it just shows how poor he is.

Bree in for him next game please

[Miltonaggro]

I think you have to say what you see and for a number of games the opposition have been clearly targeting our left side - knowing that this is where the gaps will materialise and where pressure can most effectively be applied. As others have said it’s baffling that our coaching team fail to see it or worst still, fail to call it out to RM. Even if it’s just to provide manning with some time out of the firing line. The best we have looked defensively this season is Bree THB Bednarek KWP, by a country mile, and if that quartet is fit they need to start our remaining matches in the run in.

[Wade Garrett]

His positioning is abysmal.  If I was the keeper I would be screaming at him all game.

Continually get sucked infield leaving huge gaps on the pitch.  Was terrible for all 3 of their goals.  

He has to be dropped.  Not even on the bench for me, unless injuries dictate.

[Billy the Kidd]

1 hour ago, Wade Garrett said:

His positioning is abysmal.  If I was the keeper I would be screaming at him all game.

Continually get sucked infield leaving huge gaps on the pitch.  Was terrible for all 3 of their goals.  

He has to be dropped.  Not even on the bench for me, unless injuries dictate.

If there were injuries, would you not put Meghoma in over him?

[Fabrice29]

1 hour ago, Wade Garrett said:

His positioning is abysmal.  If I was the keeper I would be screaming at him all game.

Continually get sucked infield leaving huge gaps on the pitch.  Was terrible for all 3 of their goals.  

He has to be dropped.  Not even on the bench for me, unless injuries dictate.

The second goal being the one he's about to intercept until Bednarek flicks it over him yeah? If you're going to hate on the guy, make it coherent. 

[saintant]

17 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

The second goal being the one he's about to intercept until Bednarek flicks it over him yeah? If you're going to hate on the guy, make it coherent. 

I wonder if he gave Bednarek a decent shout to leave it - if he didn't he should have.

[Fabrice29]

38 minutes ago, saintant said:

I wonder if he gave Bednarek a decent shout to leave it - if he didn't he should have.

So we're just blaming Manning for something we don't know if he did or not rather than the guy mis timing a header and flicking the ball into the strikers path yeah? Cool. Look forward to the same logic being applied if Manning ever does that.

[Give it to Ron]

56 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

The second goal being the one he's about to intercept until Bednarek flicks it over him yeah? If you're going to hate on the guy, make it coherent. 

Bednarek had a right go at him after I would thought he would have swept behind him instead of going forward.

I don’t hate on him just he had a poor game but as I pointed out to a couple of fans look who is in front of him ? No-one. First goal  no- one was we are so susceptible to a switch cross field because we overload on the right. Teams have sussed that.

[The Cat]

2 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

His positioning is abysmal.  If I was the keeper I would be screaming at him all game.

Continually get sucked infield leaving huge gaps on the pitch.  Was terrible for all 3 of their goals.  

He has to be dropped.  Not even on the bench for me, unless injuries dictate.

I'm supremely confident that his positioning is such because he's doing exactly what he's told to do. 

There is no way he would have been playing that way all season for it to be his decision to stand in the places he does.

If that was the case the coaches would have told him to stop doing it. 

If he was continually out of position then not only Bazunu, but Bednarek, THB, Downes etc would be telling him. The fact they don't makes it pretty clear to me that it's tactical.

[saintant]

42 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

So we're just blaming Manning for something we don't know if he did or not rather than the guy mis timing a header and flicking the ball into the strikers path yeah? Cool. Look forward to the same logic being applied if Manning ever does that.

I didn't blame him - I asked a question. If the answer was he didn't give Bednarek a shout my opinion is that he should have.,

[Wade Garrett]

2 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

The second goal being the one he's about to intercept until Bednarek flicks it over him yeah? If you're going to hate on the guy, make it coherent. 

Have you ever fucking played football.  Bednarek was going for the ball so Manning should have been dropping off.

First goal he got sucked inside and left the scorer free, last goal, his attempt to block the ball would have shamed a Wessex League defender.

Maybe it doesn’t work like that on the fucking PlayStation.

[Wade Garrett]

1 hour ago, The Cat said:

I'm supremely confident that his positioning is such because he's doing exactly what he's told to do. 

There is no way he would have been playing that way all season for it to be his decision to stand in the places he does.

If that was the case the coaches would have told him to stop doing it. 

If he was continually out of position then not only Bazunu, but Bednarek, THB, Downes etc would be telling him. The fact they don't makes it pretty clear to me that it's tactical.

Funny that Bree didn’t take the same positions midweek.  Or Stephens against West Brom.

[Miltonaggro]

Just now, Wade Garrett said:

Funny that Bree didn’t take the same positions midweek.  Or Stephens against West Brom.

They haven’t got the range…

[Wade Garrett]

2 hours ago, Billy the Kidd said:

If there were injuries, would you not put Meghoma in over him?

Yes, Meghoma would have to be injured as well.  In that scenario though, Calderwood or Martin should consider coming out of retirement for a game.

[The Cat]

55 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Funny that Bree didn’t take the same positions midweek.  Or Stephens against West Brom.

Stephens spent a lot of time at West Brom playing in midfield. It was interesting to see how we switched to a back 2 on occasions in that game while atracking with him moving in front of the CB's and Walker Peters high up the pitch.

Quite often in the game we defended as a 3 with Walker Peters pushed further up. Stephens dropped back and defended narrowly on the left side of the 3.

It seems as if our right side player doesn't always defend narrowly, although it does happen. See KWP against Hull when they lobbed the ball down their left and he was tucked inside, they exploited the space and scored.

I don't know enough about tactics to work out when it swaps between LB and RB defending narrowly, presumably it's dependent on the situation on the pitch in that moment. However when we play Manning at LB and KWP at RB it's more often than not Manning who is tucked inside nearer the CB's rather than covering the space a traditional winger would attack.

I'm sure Martin could explain exactly why we do it.

[Whitey Grandad]

3 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

The second goal being the one he's about to intercept until Bednarek flicks it over him yeah? If you're going to hate on the guy, make it coherent. 

Manning had a man to mark and completely lost him. He should have stayed with his man and left any interceptions to Bednarek.

[tdmickey3]

Very poor player and at times is utterly awful.

Should never be a first choice 

[Gingeletiss]

11 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Very poor player and at times is utterly awful.

Should never be a first choice 

This ^^^^

[S-Clarke]

8 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

The second goal being the one he's about to intercept until Bednarek flicks it over him yeah? If you're going to hate on the guy, make it coherent. 

I've watched it back a few times, my initial thought is still the same.

He was caught in no mans land, he didn't need to be on Bednarek's arse like he was. He needed to have awareness to drop back so we were more protected against the counter. One flick or one poor header and you've taken out two defenders, rather than 1 and it's curtains - and that's what happened.

It's dreadful positional awareness from him, so bad.

Edited March 3 by S-Clarke

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

5 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Manning had a man to mark and completely lost him. He should have stayed with his man and left any interceptions to Bednarek.

Got to agree. The Birmingham striker seemed to anticipate was going to happen and was off and rather than being behind him, Manning seemed to try to cut inside and header what turned out to be a non-existent ball. Not many defenders try that...I wonder why!

[Fabrice29]

1 hour ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Got to agree. The Birmingham striker seemed to anticipate was going to happen and was off and rather than being behind him, Manning seemed to try to cut inside and header what turned out to be a non-existent ball. Not many defenders try that...I wonder why!

 

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

I've watched it back a few times, my initial thought is still the same.

He was caught in no mans land, he didn't need to be on Bednarek's arse like he was. He needed to have awareness to drop back so we were more protected against the counter. One flick or one poor header and you've taken out two defenders, rather than 1 and it's curtains - and that's what happened.

It's dreadful positional awareness from him, so bad.

Christ. He’s not in no man’s land and he’s not heading a non existent ball. He’s literally in the perfect position to either head the ball away or bring it under control himself, and Bednarek jumps for a ball he can’t reach and flicks it over him. 

Baffling that people are trying to rationalise the guy who perfectly judged the flight of the ball is at fault instead of the guy who mis judges the ball. But hey, here we are. 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Fabrice29 said:

 

Christ. He’s not in no man’s land and he’s not heading a non existent ball. He’s literally in the perfect position to either head the ball away or bring it under control himself, and Bednarek jumps for a ball he can’t reach and flicks it over him. 

Baffling that people are trying to rationalise the guy who perfectly judged the flight of the ball is at fault instead of the guy who mis judges the ball. But hey, here we are. 

Neither of those are his job. He is supposed to be a full back. He should protect his flank and cover the only opponent who might be a threat. Bednarek is there to go for the ball and if he messes up Manning is there to cover. It was Keystone Cops defending.

[The Cat]

6 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Neither of those are his job. He is supposed to be a full back. He should protect his flank and cover the only opponent who might be a threat. Bednarek is there to go for the ball and if he messes up Manning is there to cover. It was Keystone Cops defending.

You're prescribing the traditional role of a full back to someone who seemingly isn't being told to hold that position while defending.

The game has changed, roles have evolved. It's different now.

If people have a problem with Manning's positioning then blame Martin, not Manning.

[Wade Garrett]

5 minutes ago, The Cat said:

You're prescribing the traditional role of a full back to someone who seemingly isn't being told to hold that position while defending.

The game has changed, roles have evolved. It's different now.

If people have a problem with Manning's positioning then blame Martin, not Manning.

Funny that the other flank don’t have the same problems then.  Nor does the left side when Manning isn’t playing.

 

[niceandfriendly]

8 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

Baffling that people are trying to rationalise the guy who perfectly judged the flight of the ball is at fault instead of the guy who mis judges the ball. But hey, here we are. 

The only thing baffling is your blind support of him despite what's obvious to everyone else. Perhaps he's a lovely bloke, perhaps you're the new Mad Nate family member desperately trying to stand up for your own flesh and blood. But when it comes to footballing ability, Manning is sadly lacking. He'd be alright for a lower league club not looking to get promotion to the Premier League. But he is nowhere near good enough for us, it's infuriating. 

[The Cat]

58 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Funny that the other flank don’t have the same problems then.  Nor does the left side when Manning isn’t playing.

 

I explained that in another post. LB tucks in, as Stephens did defensively at West Brom so KWP can play further forward.

Also per my other post on the occasions when KWP is further back he also defends narrow. See the goal against Hull for an example.

[Fabrice29]

7 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Neither of those are his job. He is supposed to be a full back. He should protect his flank and cover the only opponent who might be a threat. Bednarek is there to go for the ball and if he messes up Manning is there to cover. It was Keystone Cops defending.

Hahaha please stop heading the ball away Ryan, it’s not your job. 

[Fabrice29]

1 hour ago, niceandfriendly said:

The only thing baffling is your blind support of him despite what's obvious to everyone else. Perhaps he's a lovely bloke, perhaps you're the new Mad Nate family member desperately trying to stand up for your own flesh and blood. But when it comes to footballing ability, Manning is sadly lacking. He'd be alright for a lower league club not looking to get promotion to the Premier League. But he is nowhere near good enough for us, it's infuriating. 

Or perhaps not everyone has to be so dramatic and not everything he does is the worst thing any left back has ever done.

[HKsaint]

42 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Or perhaps not everyone has to be so dramatic and not everything he does is the worst thing any left back has ever done.

Good morning, Russell

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Fabrice29 said:

Hahaha please stop heading the ball away Ryan, it’s not your job. 

You’re right: it isn’t and he didn’t. Not in the centre circle it isn’t, not when there is a centre half standing next to him. He was virtually holding hands with Bednarek.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Fabrice29 said:

Or perhaps not everyone has to be so dramatic and not everything he does is the worst thing any left back has ever done.

I’m not so much bothered by what he does as by what he doesn’t do. 

[Sheaf Saint]

4 hours ago, The Cat said:

You're prescribing the traditional role of a full back to someone who seemingly isn't being told to hold that position while defending.

The game has changed, roles have evolved. It's different now.

If people have a problem with Manning's positioning then blame Martin, not Manning.

Sorry but this is just way off the mark. Regardless of what he had been told to do, Manning should have realised that Bednarek was going to try and head that ball and had the nous to not try and go for it as well but instead cover the defender.

It's just basic common sense defending and has nothing whatsoever to do with tactics.

[Osvaldorama]

3 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

Or perhaps not everyone has to be so dramatic and not everything he does is the worst thing any left back has ever done.

It bothers us because it’s constant. He has cost us a lot of points this season. Same as bazunu last season. 

He simply can’t tackle or position himself well. He gets beaten so, so easily. 

[Wade Garrett]

3 hours ago, The Cat said:

I explained that in another post. LB tucks in, as Stephens did defensively at West Brom so KWP can play further forward.

Also per my other post on the occasions when KWP is further back he also defends narrow. See the goal against Hull for an example.

Yes, I read that.  The difference being that KWP can defend in the correct areas when he has to but Manning can’t.

Birmingham targeted him for the whole game because he is fucking dogshit.

[The Cat]

37 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Sorry but this is just way off the mark. Regardless of what he had been told to do, Manning should have realised that Bednarek was going to try and head that ball and had the nous to not try and go for it as well but instead cover the defender.

It's just basic common sense defending and has nothing whatsoever to do with tactics.

My point wasn't necessarily in relation to that goal, but more generally about his positioning.

What we don't know about that incident is whether he gave Bednarek a shout. If he did and Bednarek still went for the ball and messed up the header then it's his fault because he should have left it.

Ultimately it doesn't matter though because we won and had a right good celebration in the away end after the game.

 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

6 minutes ago, The Cat said:

My point wasn't necessarily in relation to that goal, but more generally about his positioning.

What we don't know about that incident is whether he gave Bednarek a shout. If he did and Bednarek still went for the ball and messed up the header then it's his fault because he should have left it.

Ultimately it doesn't matter though because we won and had a right good celebration in the away end after the game.

 

Whether there was a shout was what crossed my mind when I saw it. I didn't think Bednarek was going to get near it, so Manning positioned himself to cover.

Perhaps Bednarek going for it, let alone getting to it, it took Manning by surprise, and he didn't shout as a result. If he didn't, it's a lesson in being more vocal. If he did shout then either Bedders didn't hear, or thought he was in control of it. An odd goal to give away, so one to learn quickly from and move on.

Manning has some serious competition from Bree to get into the side. But it's not a traditional system, he is also doing other things in it, and other players right across the side can be made to look vulnerable.

One of the biggest weaknesses, and has been right from the start, has been the exposed full back positions. Martin wants those numbers in midfield, supporting to create passing angles and passes for chances. Martin is counting on opponents not being able to exploit it, or finish their chances when they do. He also supports the players who have been well drilled in getting back into position. Running back to defend adds to the difficulty of it. So with that, and the narrowness, Manning is going to be open to attack.

KWP doesn't have the same issues because simply he's a much better player, we have games where he's even further forward and we compensate for it, and opponents know to go after the gap where they are more likely to get an outcome.

Someone a while back made the point that, at Swansea, Manning wouldn't be the one compensating for a KWP. The team would be supporting Manning to be getting into those advanced positions. So, like everyone else in the side, Manning is having to pick up new responsibilities and develop his game.

[gio1saints]

@Fabrice29is not saying Ryan is the best Left back in the league or even in the team, he’s explained why it sometimes appears the left back is a weak spot. It’s Russell’s call not Ryan’s. Blame Russell if you don’t like the tactic that, occasionally, encourages the direct ball exploiting the space ( often ) available in our left back area. 

And it might not be amiss for some of you to chill with the exaggerated negative comments on Ryan. Makes you sound like Pompey fans. 

It’s been explained very clearly by @Fabrice29 and by @The Cat but one last time : 

When KWP goes forward with ball running - wherever he likes but usually on RH side and central - it is because he and the team know he is allowed to do so. He is a ( arguably THE) key disrupter for us of opposition defensive tactics. He is specifically told and allowed to do this by Russell. 
 

KWP attacking triggers an immediate response for the rest of the defence. They shuffle across - which means the LB ( Ryan Manning) tucks in more centrally, and the right CB - usually THB but can be Beds pops out a little for a temporary back three. In that moment space - and plenty of it - is obviously visible in our lb position. Less visibly so on the rh side because thats the side of play being disrupted. 
 

Given that there’s a good chance KWP will get dispossessed and a “ breakaway” is possible via a direct long ball, usually lofted, if I was an opposition manager I would reckon my players chances of successfully executing a direct pass to a forward who had to face Ryan in the obvious left hand side was higher than on the ( disrupted) rh side, where, incidentally our best defender awaits : THB. So target left back. 
 

Straight away from a height and strength and defensive ability perspective it’s no contest. THB >RM. So target left back. 
 

So blame Ryan all you like but were you to replace him with Meg - and with KWP in same free role role as before with same RM tactics - then some of you lot will be calling him “ dog shit “ etc and destroying his career before he’s even really started. RM is a pretty seasoned pro and can take the criticism - I doubt Meg could.

Who else for LB instead of Ryan?  Well obviously Bree - but I bet you willbe all over him like a rash the minute a goal goes in from that area. 

It’s up toRuss to solve that problem. Player bashing pundits like some of you far too keen to scapegoat players like Ryan, Will, etc when it’s as much /majorly our tactics that’sfundementally at the heart of the issue. 

Not defending the tactic - it’s clearly an Achilles heel of sorts- just trying to explain why in singling our Ryan you are largely missing the point. 

Edited March 4 by gio1saints

[tdmickey3]

3 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

@Fabrice29is not saying Ryan is the best Left back in the league or even in the team, he’s explained why it sometimes appears the left back is a weak spot. It’s Russell’s call not Ryan’s. Blame Russell if you don’t like the tactic that, occasionally, encourages the direct ball exploiting the space ( often ) available in our left back area. 

And it might not be amiss for some of you to chill with the exaggerated negative comments on Ryan. Makes you sound like Pompey fans. 

It’s been explained very clearly by @Fabrice29 and by @The Cat but one last time : 

When KWP goes forward with ball running - wherever he likes but usually on RH side and central - it is because he and the team know he is allowed to do so. He is a ( arguably THE) key disrupter for us of opposition defensive tactics. He is specifically told and allowed to do this by Russell. 
 

KWP attacking triggers an immediate response go the rest of the defence. They shuffle across which means means the LB ( Ryan Manning) tucks in more centrally, and the right CB - usually THB but can be Beds pops out a little for a temporary back three. In that moment space and plenty of it is obviously visible in our lb position. Less visibly so on the rh side because thats the side of play being disrupted. 
 

Given that there’s a good chance KWP will get dispossessed and a “ breakaway” is possible via a direct long ball, usually lofted, if I was an opposition manager I would reckon my players chances of successfully executing a direct pass to a forward who had to face Ryan in the obvious left hand side was higher than on the ( disrupted) rh side, where, incidentally our best defender awaits : THB.
 

Straight away from a height and strength and defensive ability perspective it’s no contest. THB >RM. 
 

So blame Ryan all you like but were you to replace him with Meg - and with KWP in same free role role as before with same RM tactics - then some of you lot will be calling him “ dog shit “ etc and destroying his career before he’s even really started. RM is a pretty seasoned pro and can take the highly Ive him- I doubt Meg could. Who else for LB? Well obviously Bree - but I bet yiu willbe all over him like a rad minute a goal goes in from that area. 
It’s up toRuss to solve that problem. Player bashing pundits like some of you far too keen to scapegoat players like Ryan, Will, etc when it’s as much /majorly our tactics that’sfundementally at the heart of the issue. 

Another patronising essay 

[Convict Colony]

23 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

@Fabrice29is not saying Ryan is the best Left back in the league or even in the team, he’s explained why it sometimes appears the left back is a weak spot. It’s Russell’s call not Ryan’s. Blame Russell if you don’t like the tactic that, occasionally, encourages the direct ball exploiting the space ( often ) available in our left back area. 

And it might not be amiss for some of you to chill with the exaggerated negative comments on Ryan. Makes you sound like Pompey fans. 

It’s been explained very clearly by @Fabrice29 and by @The Cat but one last time : 

When KWP goes forward with ball running - wherever he likes but usually on RH side and central - it is because he and the team know he is allowed to do so. He is a ( arguably THE) key disrupter for us of opposition defensive tactics. He is specifically told and allowed to do this by Russell. 
 

KWP attacking triggers an immediate response for the rest of the defence. They shuffle across - which means the LB ( Ryan Manning) tucks in more centrally, and the right CB - usually THB but can be Beds pops out a little for a temporary back three. In that moment space - and plenty of it - is obviously visible in our lb position. Less visibly so on the rh side because thats the side of play being disrupted. 
 

Given that there’s a good chance KWP will get dispossessed and a “ breakaway” is possible via a direct long ball, usually lofted, if I was an opposition manager I would reckon my players chances of successfully executing a direct pass to a forward who had to face Ryan in the obvious left hand side was higher than on the ( disrupted) rh side, where, incidentally our best defender awaits : THB. So target left back. 
 

Straight away from a height and strength and defensive ability perspective it’s no contest. THB >RM. So target left back. 
 

So blame Ryan all you like but were you to replace him with Meg - and with KWP in same free role role as before with same RM tactics - then some of you lot will be calling him “ dog shit “ etc and destroying his career before he’s even really started. RM is a pretty seasoned pro and can take the criticism - I doubt Meg could.

Who else for LB instead of Ryan?  Well obviously Bree - but I bet you willbe all over him like a rash the minute a goal goes in from that area. 

It’s up toRuss to solve that problem. Player bashing pundits like some of you far too keen to scapegoat players like Ryan, Will, etc when it’s as much /majorly our tactics that’sfundementally at the heart of the issue. 

Not defending the tactic - it’s clearly an Achilles heel of sorts- just trying to explain why in singling our Ryan you are largely missing the point. 

I would agree with a lot of that if most of the time the ball isnt played over his head as he minces around ball watching near the halfway line.

Edited March 4 by Convict Colony

[Tommy Mulgrew]

To me, it does not really matter whether the cause of the problem is Manning or Martin.  The problem is costing us about two goals a game at present.  Ultimately Martin has to sort that out.  Like others on here, I would prefer, in descending order, Bree, Meghoma or Stephens at LB.  Even without the required tactical adjustment to stop the problem happening so frequently, that simple change would probably reduce our goals conceded to more acceptable levels.  Surely Martin and his staff and the players can see that every one of our recent opponents has targeted No-Mannings Land and been notably successful in doing so.  As a result, our push for automatic promotion is almost over and our chances of victory in the play-offs is under threat.  If that does not galvanise action to overcome the problem, I don’t know what will.  We do not need a change of manager.  We do need our present manager to act decisively and shore up our faltering promotion challenge.  Him merely saying “rubbish goals” after every match without changing anything is no good whatsoever.  Action, not words, Russell.  Not long now until we welcome Preston.

Please tell him, gio1saints.  🙏  Thank you.

[VectisSaint]

1 hour ago, gio1saints said:

@Fabrice29is not saying Ryan is the best Left back in the league or even in the team, he’s explained why it sometimes appears the left back is a weak spot. It’s Russell’s call not Ryan’s. Blame Russell if you don’t like the tactic that, occasionally, encourages the direct ball exploiting the space ( often ) available in our left back area. 

And it might not be amiss for some of you to chill with the exaggerated negative comments on Ryan. Makes you sound like Pompey fans. 

It’s been explained very clearly by @Fabrice29 and by @The Cat but one last time : 

When KWP goes forward with ball running - wherever he likes but usually on RH side and central - it is because he and the team know he is allowed to do so. He is a ( arguably THE) key disrupter for us of opposition defensive tactics. He is specifically told and allowed to do this by Russell. 
 

KWP attacking triggers an immediate response for the rest of the defence. They shuffle across - which means the LB ( Ryan Manning) tucks in more centrally, and the right CB - usually THB but can be Beds pops out a little for a temporary back three. In that moment space - and plenty of it - is obviously visible in our lb position. Less visibly so on the rh side because thats the side of play being disrupted. 
 

Given that there’s a good chance KWP will get dispossessed and a “ breakaway” is possible via a direct long ball, usually lofted, if I was an opposition manager I would reckon my players chances of successfully executing a direct pass to a forward who had to face Ryan in the obvious left hand side was higher than on the ( disrupted) rh side, where, incidentally our best defender awaits : THB. So target left back. 
 

Straight away from a height and strength and defensive ability perspective it’s no contest. THB >RM. So target left back. 
 

So blame Ryan all you like but were you to replace him with Meg - and with KWP in same free role role as before with same RM tactics - then some of you lot will be calling him “ dog shit “ etc and destroying his career before he’s even really started. RM is a pretty seasoned pro and can take the criticism - I doubt Meg could.

Who else for LB instead of Ryan?  Well obviously Bree - but I bet you willbe all over him like a rash the minute a goal goes in from that area. 

It’s up toRuss to solve that problem. Player bashing pundits like some of you far too keen to scapegoat players like Ryan, Will, etc when it’s as much /majorly our tactics that’sfundementally at the heart of the issue. 

Not defending the tactic - it’s clearly an Achilles heel of sorts- just trying to explain why in singling our Ryan you are largely missing the point. 

Whether or not Manning is out of position due to Martin's tactics, the bottom line is that he is not a very good defender. Even when "in position" he is easily beaten, and does not have enough pace to match wide players and is lacking in positional sense. In addition, he is also caught  "out of position" whenever we get a corner, because in the same way as Bertrand used to he takes corners from the diametrically opposite corner from where he is supposed to defend. This means whenever a corner attack breaks down he is so far away from being able to defend that we are left hopelessly exposed. This would be OK if he was actually really good at corners, but either his corners are not very good or we are not very good at attacking from corners, or more likely both.  Whatever way you dress it up at the moment Ryan is the weakest link in the team, and is costing us goals.

On Saturday I wasn't surprised to see Manning start. I don't think Bree was an option, anyone who saw him subbed off against Liverpool would have noticed he was absolutely out on his feet, looked completely exhausted, unsurprisingly first game back since a lay-off. Pretty sure if he had been fit he would have played on the right anyway in place of KWP (possibly with Stephens on the left, but not sure). Much as I would like to see it I don't think Martin has enough faith in Meghoma yet, which I can sort of understand when you have a misfiring defensive group and you are trying to shore it up, but struggling because of injuries. Hopefully for PNE KWP will be back, Bree will be fit and we will see a back 4 of KWP, THB, Bednarek and Bree (but I won't hold my breath).