Saints 2-1 West Brom - Match Thread

[hypochondriac]

41 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Must admit, wasn't convinced by today's performance. Thought we were lucky, whereas we were always in control in the previous couple of games. West Brom were shit. They had quite a few opportunities to find the right pass and instead found the touchline. When they were on top in the second half, they had the ball in the middle of the field with acres of space but made the wrong pass or were too slow. We were lucky today.

 RHB was great. KWP great. Dare I say it, but thought Holgate was very good. And who says the Loch Ness monster doesn't exist? Great to see Stewart and his cameo.

Good news is RM will be in the stands for the next game. Keep him there and let someone else do the half time team talk because his evidently don't work.

Not a chance were West brom shit. They were largely lacking a final ball but their defence was the most organised I've seen this year. They will make the playoffs imo. 

[S-Clarke]

I thought the first half performance was really strong, against a strong opponent. Alcaraz was causing them all sorts of problems in between the lines, some of his passing was excellent. Looked a lot sharper than he has done, which should send fear to everyone in this league.

Second half was polar opposite though, it was somewhat coming as WBA ended the first half well, but they had us penned in for a lot of that 2nd half. We struggle to get onto the ball because tactically they closed off all of our passing angles, and pressed us at the right times - so it was really difficult to gain any momentum on the ball. They were causing us issues with their pace down the wide areas and the equaliser was well deserved to be honest.

At that stage I didn't see the winner coming, but for the first time in years it feels like this bunch have some steel to them. They picked themselves up from being penned in and were clinical in one of the only chances we had in that second half, absolutely priceless.

I know Holgate got MOTM, and he was excellent, but for me it could only be one player - THB. He will make anyone look good, he doesn't get much mention because he does everything right and goes somewhat under the radar. The ball was like a magnet to him when we were defending corners, and he always got a fair distance on them. He is a top, top, top CB and for us to have him at this level is a bit of a joke. He should be playing PL now.

The last few weeks were needed, Ipswich and Leicester have wobbled a bit and we've clawed them back in. Leeds will say the same. Leicester were 17 points clear of us at one stage, but it's back down to single figures. 

Let's get this last international break out of the way, and put everything into this next block of Christmas fixtures - this will be the defining run, anything can still happen at this stage.

[Bad Wolf]

If our manager was called Rustov Martinez, the feeling toward him would be very different.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

2 hours ago, macca155 said:

I thought Adams really got stuck in when he came on. Won a few tackles and pushed the team further forward. He either signs a contract or moves in Jan, needs to sort things out

Yes I thought Che looked motivated today

[64saint]

2 hours ago, revolution saint said:

What the fuck are we going to talk about for next couple of weeks now? FFS!

Well, for entertainment we could dig out all the old posts from Holgates debut a couple of months ago , you know the ones that said they never wanted to see him in a Saints shirt again, the worst ever signing, how their Granny could perform better etc etc.  😂😂.  Our Official Man of the Match today !!!  In fairness he was shit on his debut but maybe a lesson for all us knee jerk posters, don't write anyone off after one game.

[StrangelyBrown]

Good that we got the win today and a great buzz going home tonight, but I can't help that think we make life a bit hard for ourselves and that it could have worked out a lot worse for us if west brom were a little more clinical.

Not sure why we don't take more shots on - it seems to be an instruction to retain possession at the expense of taking risks, which when we've got players like sule and Charly who have a bit of magic about them is a shame.

Organisationally we are so much better than we started the season and the combination of THB, Holgate and Downes in the middle seems to make us pretty robust.

Not sure what is wrong with Che - despite a couple of moments of effort he didn't seem like a player who was playing to get back in the team. On the plus side Stewart looked very positive.

Fair play to RM - he's certainly taking us in the right direction and has the team playing for each other right to the death. I just wish he'd be a little more ambitious in getting a second and maybe even third goal.

[hypochondriac]

Ipswich have some really tough fixtures up to the end of the year including West brom away, Middlesborough away, Millwall off the back of a good result for them, Leeds away and Leicester. Lots to play for before January. 

[goodymatt]

16 minutes ago, 64saint said:

Well, for entertainment we could dig out all the old posts from Holgates debut a couple of months ago , you know the ones that said they never wanted to see him in a Saints shirt again, the worst ever signing, how their Granny could perform better etc etc.  😂😂.  Our Official Man of the Match today !!!  In fairness he was shit on his debut but maybe a lesson for all us knee jerk posters, don't write anyone off after one game.

Holgate was decent today, 4th time lucky in my book though. After being subbed ant Sunderland and Boro, then looking quite shakey vs Preston. It shouldn’t take that long for a £70k/week CB with his experience IMO. I hope this is the corner turned and he can help us going forward.

[Sheaf Saint]

Just now, goodymatt said:

Holgate was decent today, 4th time lucky in my book though. After being subbed ant Sunderland and Boro, then looking quite shakey vs Preston. It shouldn’t take that long for a £70k/week CB with his experience IMO. I hope this is the corner turned and he can help us going forward.

He's a CB. That's not his job 😉

[Forester]

Not a convincing performance (after the first 30 mins) but a very good sign that we can win when not at our best.

 

Thought Bazanu, THB, Holgate and Adam Armstrong all excellent.  We are nearly at the 2 points per game threshold, forget everyone else and the league table.  This is the only number that counts if you look at the history books over 46 games

[Chez]

A bit fortunate to get a win, but will take it. We played well first half, with some tremendous passing out from the back. But WBA were by far the better side on the second half and could easily have won the game. My major concern was just how much time we gave their wide players to pick a cross. There was no pressure on the ball at all. Manning made things worse not better. Actually the subs in general made us worse. When Smallbone went off, moving Stu into the middle didn't work. 

[gammon cheeks]

West Brom were pretty good to be honest ...condensed the play and were very physical side ....they will defo be in the play off places ....only gripe was we gave them all day to cross the ball ..far to easy in that respect .    Grinding out a win today was a great result ...only 9 points of automatic places now!

[woodsaint1]

I see that WBAs first game after the international break is home to Ipswich. Could do with them winning that. They're a decent side and will very likely be thereabouts for the playoffs

[miserableoldgit]

58 minutes ago, 64saint said:

Well, for entertainment we could dig out all the old posts from Holgates debut a couple of months ago , you know the ones that said they never wanted to see him in a Saints shirt again, the worst ever signing, how their Granny could perform better etc etc.  😂😂.  Our Official Man of the Match today !!!  In fairness he was shit on his debut but maybe a lesson for all us knee jerk posters, don't write anyone off after one game.

Someone on one of the Saints forums on FB called THB "Hardon Bellend" after two games....that's knee jerk!😒

[Ex Lion Tamer]

46 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

Holgate was decent today, 4th time lucky in my book though. After being subbed ant Sunderland and Boro, then looking quite shakey vs Preston. It shouldn’t take that long for a £70k/week CB with his experience IMO. I hope this is the corner turned and he can help us going forward.

Give the guy a break. His confidence and actual abilities has been shattered by playing at a shitshow like Everton and it can take time to turn something like that around

[Harry_SFC]

30 minutes ago, Chez said:

A bit fortunate to get a win, but will take it. We played well first half, with some tremendous passing out from the back. But WBA were by far the better side on the second half and could easily have won the game. My major concern was just how much time we gave their wide players to pick a cross. There was no pressure on the ball at all. Manning made things worse not better. Actually the subs in general made us worse. When Smallbone went off, moving Stu into the middle didn't work. 

Yep we really missed Smallbone and Downes going off didn't help things either. S.Armstrong is very good in that advanced position but isn't the same player deeper in the midfield. 

Manning just let's the winger cross the ball or run into the penalty area doesn't he? You can certainly tell he's a natural midfielder and not a defender.

[goodymatt]

I reckon Barley was in an offside position when the header was made that bounced off the bar for him to tap in. Hard to tell from the replays but I don’t think that goal should have stood.

[Lighthouse]

16 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

I reckon Barley was in an offside position when the header was made that bounced off the bar for him to tap in. Hard to tell from the replays but I don’t think that goal should have stood.

 

5:45 for their goal, looks like Holgate is playing Bartley on at the time of the first header.

[SNSUN]

17 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Give the guy a break. His confidence and actual abilities has been shattered by playing at a shitshow like Everton and it can take time to turn something like that around

http://westbrom.com/forum/index.php?topic=22734.100

When he was on loan at WBA in 2019 they liked him, thought he was committed and solid. I agree that it can't have been easy playing at Everton over the last few years (though under Dyche it looks like they're getting their shit together) but perhaps the Championship is his level.

I do think that it's no coincidence though at how much better our CBs look when playing next to Harwood-Bellis. If he doesn't play for England in the next 3/4 years, when we have ageing CBs, then I'd be very surprised. I want promotion for us this season for so many reasons but one of the more important things is because I want us to sign him permanently.

[macca155]

31 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

I reckon Barley was in an offside position when the header was made that bounced off the bar for him to tap in. Hard to tell from the replays but I don’t think that goal should have stood.

I thought that, I reckon VAR would have been in use there.

However they more than deserved that goal. Tidy outfit, we may meet them again the play offs.

[macca155]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Ipswich have some really tough fixtures up to the end of the year including West brom away, Middlesborough away, Millwall off the back of a good result for them, Leeds away and Leicester. Lots to play for before January. 

They will fall away I suspect, Leeds and Saints will probably be slogging it out for 2nd. Mind you Leicester are wobbling a bit.

Great league this 😀

Just need to keep plugging away.

[Vancouver Saint]

WBA were a very good team - can't believe a couple of posters here are saying otherwise. At 1-1 I thought they had the upper hand and the momentum so was happy to see that AA goal go in. A really big win to keep the momentum going. WBA will beat some of our competitors around us if they play like that - starting with Ipswich after the international break with luck.

[SaintBobby]

West Brom were good - that match could have gone either way.

[david in sweden]

5 hours ago, macca155 said:

They will fall away I suspect, Leeds and Saints will probably be slogging it out for 2nd. Mind you Leicester are wobbling a bit.

Great league this 😀

 

....oh you mean when we win games regularly ..AGREED !

[SWLondonSaint]

14 hours ago, miserableoldgit said:

Random thoughts on todays game:-

First half fairly even but Saints just about edged it. Although both teams were playing a similar style, Saints were more clinical and determined. Too many passes going astray for the Baggies and too many tackles lost.

Second half....Baggies seemed to react to their HT talk better than Saints did theirs. We went through the traditional second-half wobble, when they scored, before responding. All in all an entertaining game.

Difficult to pick a MotM. I actually thought that Mason Holgate did OK today....definitely not MotM though! 😂. Thought that everbody played well and a big plus seeing Ross Stewart on the pitch! All in all an entertaining game.

Overheard people talking on the way back to the car, saying that "We were lucky....we can't keep on being lucky. RM is a lucky manager". When do we start giving the team/manager credit for what is happening. I actually hope that he is a "Lucky Manager!"

 

The lucky thing is amusing. You can’t go 8 unbeaten (4 teams who we’re in the top 6 at the time) with 6 wins in there by fluking it.

 

[AlexLaw76]

12 hours ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Must admit, wasn't convinced by today's performance. Thought we were lucky, whereas we were always in control in the previous couple of games. West Brom were shit. They had quite a few opportunities to find the right pass and instead found the touchline. When they were on top in the second half, they had the ball in the middle of the field with acres of space but made the wrong pass or were too slow. We were lucky today.

 RHB was great. KWP great. Dare I say it, but thought Holgate was very good. And who says the Loch Ness monster doesn't exist? Great to see Stewart and his cameo.

Good news is RM will be in the stands for the next game. Keep him there and let someone else do the half time team talk because his evidently don't work.

I think you are on your own on that one...

[Chewy]

Late back so thought I’d sleep on it.

West Brom are a good side with a good coach; overall I thought we were a tad fortunate to get all 3 points; the winner was against the run of play but kudos for our character and the finish. Last years team doesn’t have the mentality to draw that game, let alone win it, and last years Armstrong slashes that wide rather than calmly controls it. Great stuff.

Other high points - great by both cbs. Excellent defense at all the set pieces - west Brom had quality delivery and some physical monsters and we dealt with every one. Think Charlie made a couple of clearing headers so kudos to him to. Charlie had his best game over a full 90 in the more withdrawn role than I can remember. He’s had better days higher up but this was more disciplined and assured - very good.

And great to see the LND. He exists!! Only a few minutes but you can see he’s a player and gave us an important outlet for managing the last few mins. Our end of game management has been pretty good this season.

A few negatives- not sure why we lost control of midfield; it happened on about 40 minutes and got more concerning as the second half progressed. Smallbones injury didn’t help, neither did Downes’ yellow card. Didn’t think Fraser for Will was the right move, we needed Shea I thought. Of course Ryan’s brilliant work got us the winner but not until we’d surrendered more of the midfield and an equalizer. Ryan for Kamaldeen a bit later and Shea for Will would have made more sense IMHO. Otherwise the subs were good.

I also think the biggest issue was not getting a second when we were on top for 40 minutes. Hopefully Ross will help here, and maybe there was an errant linesman’s flag but we still aren’t clinical enough in the final third. But west Brom will be one of the tougher nuts to crack.

Overall, got to be very happy. Looked a tough game before and so it proved and yet we won, scoring against the run of play, scoring twice against a very efficient defense, having to show strong mentality to go again and playing our 4th choice cb due to injury and suspension. All of these are major positives and suggest a promising season. And that’s before you talk about 8 unbeaten including 6 wins. 
We’re in a good place. Not an ideal time for a break although it’ll allow Ross, Jack (and possibly Bree and Smallbone) to recover some more. We should have a pretty much full squad when we return, brimming with confidence and hopefully a bigger goal threat. Exciting times ahead (usual caveat of this being saints, and I have 40 years experience of what that means … 😉)

[fanimal]

Best atmosphere at SMS for years!

More like the old times..

Swapped my Northam seat for block 35 Kingsland brilliant support up there as well.

Great to dig out a tough win the linesman denied us two excellent chances in the first half when we were buzzing that was very annoying 

[saintstowin]

It was a good game. I thought WBA were incredibly fast and had some very physically strong players and played very skilfully. The win shouldn't be underestimated. 

We almost weathered the 2nd half pressure but when we didn't we came back at them and took our chance. 

I was near their fans and it was a really good atmosphere. 

Everyone did well. Stand outs THB, brilliant. Bazunu, kept well and some of those passes! But all those who got on contributed. And those less popular, pleased for Holgate and Manning was good coming on late when the pressure was pretty intense.

[saintant]

11 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

 

5:45 for their goal, looks like Holgate is playing Bartley on at the time of the first header.

Looked like Bartley could have been offside when the first West Brom player headed the ball but not conclusive.

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I think you are on your own on that one...

Certainly am...well almost. Just seen the video of one of their fans asleep at the game😃

[beatlesaint]

My only (small) critcism of this style of play is that when we go one up I would really like us to give it 10 minutes where we go for the juggular, not all out attack and throw caution to the wind but increase the intensity a little to try to get a second. Instead we seem to sit back a little and pass it around more. Ok I know we are waiting to break their line etc and that creates chances in itself and maybe its because of that run of conceding almost straight away has made them more cautious after scoring. 

I think yesterday as the first half wore on we gave WBA encouragement they didnt need to be given, and second half we nearly paid for it if we are being honest.

Edited 12 November, 2023 by beatlesaint

[miserableoldgit]

1 hour ago, SWLondonSaint said:

The lucky thing is amusing. You can’t go 8 unbeaten (4 teams who we’re in the top 6 at the time) with 6 wins in there by fluking it.

 

Sadly, a lot of our fan-base think that way. I have heard this numerous times after virtually every result....."We were lucky again".....you don't regularly score last gasp goals by being lucky....you get them by keeping going to the very last minute.

[64saint]

16 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

 Just seen the video of one of their fans asleep at the game😃

The whole of the Itchen North saw him asleep as well and gently tried to wake him up with a soothing song  😂😂😂

Edited 12 November, 2023 by 64saint

[saintant]

18 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

My only (small) critcism of this style of play is that when we go one up I would really like us to give it 10 minutes where we go for the juggular, not all out attack and throw caution to the wind but increase the intensity a little to try to get a second. Instead we seem to sit back a little and pass it around more. Ok I know we are waiting to break their line etc and that creates chances in itself and maybe its because of that run of conceding almost straight away has made them more cautious after scoring. 

I think yesterday as the first half wore on we gave WBA encouragement they didnt need to be given, and second half we nearly paid for it if we are being honest.

I agree with you. I've been following Saints for a long time and the best sides we've had always went for the jugular after scoring a goal. We used to put teams under the cosh, put them under immense pressure and the crowd would roar the team on baying for another goal and it quite often came. I don't understand the idea of taking your foot off the gas because you miss the chance to apply pressure and end up letting the opposition back in. We have always looked a better team when trying to get at opponents and have never been that great at keeping it tight.

[miserableoldgit]

6 minutes ago, saintant said:

I agree with you. I've been following Saints for a long time and the best sides we've had always went for the jugular after scoring a goal. We used to put teams under the cosh, put them under immense pressure and the crowd would roar the team on baying for another goal and it quite often came. I don't understand the idea of taking your foot off the gas because you miss the chance to apply pressure and end up letting the opposition back in. We have always looked a better team when trying to get at opponents and have never been that great at keeping it tight.

It is a very strange one for me. When it is working, the playing style/system is a joy to watch. When we are up against it, it is very frustrating!

[Chewy]

14 minutes ago, saintant said:

I agree with you. I've been following Saints for a long time and the best sides we've had always went for the jugular after scoring a goal. We used to put teams under the cosh, put them under immense pressure and the crowd would roar the team on baying for another goal and it quite often came. I don't understand the idea of taking your foot off the gas because you miss the chance to apply pressure and end up letting the opposition back in. We have always looked a better team when trying to get at opponents and have never been that great at keeping it tight.

And yet we tried it earlier in the season and had a horrible habit of conceding within minutes of scoring. It’s a tough one.

[Saint Gifford]

24 minutes ago, miserableoldgit said:

Sadly, a lot of our fan-base think that way. I have heard this numerous times after virtually every result....."We were lucky again".....you don't regularly score last gasp goals by being lucky....you get them by keeping going to the very last minute.

Agree with you 100%. I said before, great to see us playing to 95 minutes.
 

Absolutely gives us that extra edge against teams who will undoubtedly start to understand that’s how we are playing.

It would be nice however to have the game won inside 80 / 85 minutes.
 

Positive goal difference at last helps, 4th place really good.

But, on paper we should be aiming for automatic, not going for last gasp winners. We rely on that in the playoffs at our peril. 

TBF promotion is clearly the only goal and if it happens I guess it doesn’t matter how it’s achieved. 

We are good enough to do this the easy way, and not have the mindset of we will be ok because will score with the last kick of the game.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jimmer42]

2 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I think you are on your own on that one...

West Brom were poor first half because we were good. Their manager worked us out by half time and they neutralised us second half. West Brom were much the better team second half and look a really good and well managed team.

I never thought I'd say this about us but that looked liked two really good defensive displays by both teams yesterday.

I still think we'll be fighting Leeds for top two by the end of the season and WBA won't be far behind

 

 

[SaintBobby]

Side bar: when did we last go 8 league games unbeaten?

[Midfield_General]

The timing of our second goal absolutely floored them. We were a boxer on the ropes at that point, clinging on under a flurry of punches and then blam, sucker punch out of nowhere, put them on their arse. You could see it just completely deflated them. Love it. 

[saintant]

23 minutes ago, Chewy said:

And yet we tried it earlier in the season and had a horrible habit of conceding within minutes of scoring. It’s a tough one.

Don't agree - at that time we were just playing a bad system that saw KWP playing almost as a midfielder in a bid to emulate Man City. It clearly did not work and we have been much tighter since we ditched it.

[Lighthouse]

1 hour ago, SaintBobby said:

Side bar: when did we last go 8 league games unbeaten?

I think it was August - November 2013, if we’re talking league games.

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

Thought there was a thread about Sulemana but can't find it.

I can't work out whether I want him in the team or not. He's been given a lot of chances recently. Yesterday, he did very little and almost got in the way a couple of times. Of course, he's super quick and there was one game where he ran the defender ragged, but he seems to flatter to deceive. His control is naff, his crosses are average and he can't shoot. Does he defend? Maybe it's time for Edozie to come back in the fold. 

[dellboysaint]

Cannot understand why Alcarez, S.Armstrong and Sulemana were not picked for games like Ipswich. They have made a huge difference to be playing week in week out recently. Baffling from Martin.

[Matty's Caddy]

The biggest difference for me was Fraser coming on. For the goal, he hasn’t farted around with it trying to beat his man multiple times, ala sulemana, he just dropped his shoulder, shifts it and puts an excellent cross into the danger area. 
With Ross Stewart hopefully now our focal point and even Adams, the more of that type of tactic with the forwards knowing when the ball is coming into the box, should give them a chance to attack the ball instead of standing around waiting for sulemana to do his thing then have the ball recycled. For me, sulemana is by far the more skilful player but Fraser is far more effective. 
 

[saintant]

8 minutes ago, Matty's Caddy said:

The biggest difference for me was Fraser coming on. For the goal, he hasn’t farted around with it trying to beat his man multiple times, ala sulemana, he just dropped his shoulder, shifts it and puts an excellent cross into the danger area. 
With Ross Stewart hopefully now our focal point and even Adams, the more of that type of tactic with the forwards knowing when the ball is coming into the box, should give them a chance to attack the ball instead of standing around waiting for sulemana to do his thing then have the ball recycled. For me, sulemana is by far the more skilful player but Fraser is far more effective. 
 

Yeah, I think we'd be better starting Fraser and bring Sulemana off the bench when opponents are tiring. Sulemana is still very raw whereas Fraser is a wily seasoned campaigner who is often involved in our goals and has scored a couple from only limited time on the pitch. Time to give him a run in the side as a first pick. 

[trousers]

41 minutes ago, saintant said:

Yeah, I think we'd be better starting Fraser and bring Sulemana off the bench when opponents are tiring. Sulemana is still very raw whereas Fraser is a wily seasoned campaigner who is often involved in our goals and has scored a couple from only limited time on the pitch. Time to give him a run in the side as a first pick. 

^ this

[StrangelyBrown]

45 minutes ago, saintant said:

Yeah, I think we'd be better starting Fraser and bring Sulemana off the bench when opponents are tiring. Sulemana is still very raw whereas Fraser is a wily seasoned campaigner who is often involved in our goals and has scored a couple from only limited time on the pitch. Time to give him a run in the side as a first pick. 

Sulemana looks like he's been told to play a specific way that doesn't play to his strengths. He needs to be let off the leash a bit and the  he'd be a much more dangerous player.

Too many times he recycles the ball when he should attack his man, but it looks like this goes against his natural instincts to me.

[Fabrice29]

1 hour ago, StrangelyBrown said:

Sulemana looks like he's been told to play a specific way that doesn't play to his strengths. He needs to be let off the leash a bit and the  he'd be a much more dangerous player.

Too many times he recycles the ball when he should attack his man, but it looks like this goes against his natural instincts to me.

He's currently playing his best and most consistent football since being here and for the first time he's trusted from the start on a regular basis. This idea he should "play to his strengths" and "be let off the leash" has only ever got him inconsistency from what I can tell. I think he should continue to be used in the way he is whilst developing an end product.

Recycling the ball is a much better decision for the team than him running blindly up the field with everyone around him struggling A) to keep up and B) to know what he's going to do. It's also clearly better for him as well because he becomes unpredictable for defenders and it's getting him more game time.

Edited 12 November, 2023 by Fabrice29