Preston 2-2 Saints - Match Thread

[doc oli]

2 hours ago, tdmickey3 said:

A perfect example of a mediocrity accepting fan and to actually say he enjoyed that turgid shite is astounding, must have no idea what is to have a team try to win instead of just keeping the ball for the sake of it.

To many fans like this I reckon, certainly a fair few on here.

You enjoy mediocrity, well, under mr 1 dimensional that is as good as it will get.

Loving and going nuts for a last minute goal is not accepting mediocrity. It’s being there for moments that salvage points that looked long gone. The rest of the 90+5 minutes can be forgotten in that moment.
 

Personally really enjoying the drama, and lower quality thrills and spills of the championship. This team would get battered in the premier league so why rush getting back there and not enjoy these sorts of moments? 

[Midfield_General]

13 hours ago, VectisSaint said:

Oh and please save me from that god-awful co-commentator, nothing to do with being female, but she just didn't know when to stop talking, why do these people think they have a right to talk and talk and talk

You're so right! I think someone who's being paid to co-commentate and give their opinions throughout the game should just sit in silence for 90 minutes. Commentators commentating, I mean who do they think they are? 

[derry]

We've just conceded so international centre back Bednarek is strolling forward as Preston retreat gets close to the halfway line mind is a blank so rolls the ball thirty yards out towards Edozie who is marked by Potts who intercepts the ball and goes on the burst lays it off and keeps going allegedly tracked by the Dozy Edozie gets the ball back and keeps going and scores. Potts was the obvious danger so time for Edozie instead of trying to catch him to take him down and accept the yellow card. 

Bednarek is poor with the ball doing what the idiot manager wants and yet again conceding unnecessarily through giving the ball away or losing it. 72% possession but we had the worst of the game until the flukey equaliser. Smallbone is just a ball recycler whose main job appears to be one touch passing. Holgate gives me the willies when he is in possession because he is careless.  

We can't continue to concede so many stupid goals. We are undisciplined and our defensive structure is like a sieve. We need to take a more disciplined structure where the defenders defend. The midfield of ball recyclers is a problem, for me it's Downes or Smallbone plus Alcaraz and S.Armstrong. Two wingers and two strikers. Adams has been hopeless. Last night Smallbone has the ball A.Armstrong makes a good run to the near post and the keeper saves. Where was Adams? in his usual static spot, on his heels just inside the penalty area. His job is in the goal area not lazily not bothering to make a proactive run. Mostly he is so inneffectve and isn't playing like a striker but looking like he is making challenging runs but is so late he never gets anywhere ever. 72% what's the point.

Edited 26 October, 2023 by derry

[antialias]

2 hours ago, tdmickey3 said:

A perfect example of a mediocrity accepting fan and to actually say he enjoyed that turgid shite is astounding, must have no idea what is to have a team try to win instead of just keeping the ball for the sake of it.

That's his right and you really should shut up and stop belittling other fans here. Who do f*** you think you are?

[Totton Saint]

Playing a posession is al well and good but including the opposition in that tactic  by passing to them is stupid

[igsey]

31 minutes ago, derry said:

We need to take a more disciplined structure where the defenders defend. The midfield of ball recyclers is a problem, for me it's Downes or Smallbone plus Alcaraz and S.Armstrong. Two wingers and two strikers. Adams has been hopeless. 

4-4-fackin'-2.

Not that I disagree with you about the ball-recycling midfield, Smallbone in particular, but I'm not sure two up top is the solution, particularly when the only options are Adams and Armstrong. Armstrong is not good enough as a 9, marginally better coming off the wing but if it were up to me, he'd be warming the bench.

 

 

[macca155]

2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

He makes too many mistakes.

No he doesn't, he makes some but no more than any other CH. Certainly OK for this league. He gets noticed because he puts himself on the line.  Not watching like some.

What he lacks is ability to consistently beat a forward to a header.  Without someone to help with that, the defence can be exposed.

 

[OldNick]

The playing the ball around the back is fine if you have fantastic technical players. Yes they get it right 90%-95% of the time, but get it wrong once you've lost the game. 

I only watched the game from about 30 minutes in. My view is that at no time did i have any confidence that we were going to keep them out. As soon as they pressed our back 4 they got edgy, we ccreated hardly anything and when we did the ball would flash across with nobody with the instinct to be in the right place.

I thought Bree looked competent 

Getting the last minute goal was brilliant

[derry]

7 minutes ago, igsey said:

4-4-fackin'-2.

Not that I disagree with you about the ball-recycling midfield, Smallbone in particular, but I'm not sure two up top is the solution, particularly when the only options are Adams and Armstrong. Armstrong is not good enough as a 9, marginally better coming off the wing but if it were up to me, he'd be warming the bench.

 

 

I see Adams as a waste of space. Ross Stewart is the next striker up alongside Armstrong or in front of.. Until then Mara. We need to offload Adams and Mara in due course and bring in a couple of strikers plus a proper centre back and a proper left back. Manning is a liability as he doesn't know how to defend. 72% possession and no penetration tells it's own story together with the keeper up for a corner in the 95th minute. Hail Mary football, how many times this season. 

[Oldandtired]

1 hour ago, derry said:

We've just conceded so international centre back Bednarek is strolling forward as Preston retreat gets close to the halfway line mind is a blank so rolls the ball thirty yards out towards Edozie who is marked by Potts who intercepts the ball and goes on the burst lays it off and keeps going allegedly tracked by the Dozy Edozie gets the ball back and keeps going and scores. Potts was the obvious danger so time for Edozie instead of trying to catch him to take him down and accept the yellow card. 

Bednarek is poor with the ball doing what the idiot manager wants and yet again conceding unnecessarily through giving the ball away or losing it. 72% possession but we had the worst of the game until the flukey equaliser. Smallbone is just a ball recycler whose main job appears to be one touch passing. Holgate gives me the willies when he is in possession because he is careless.  

We can't continue to concede so many stupid goals. We are undisciplined and our defensive structure is like a sieve. We need to take a more disciplined structure where the defenders defend. The midfield of ball recyclers is a problem, for me it's Downes or Smallbone plus Alcaraz and S.Armstrong. Two wingers and two strikers. Adams has been hopeless. Last night Smallbone has the ball A.Armstrong makes a good run to the near post and the keeper saves. Where was Adams? in his usual static spot, on his heels just inside the penalty area. His job is in the goal area not lazily not bothering to make a proactive run. Mostly he is so inneffectve and isn't playing like a striker but looking like he is making challenging runs but is so late he never gets anywhere ever. 72% what's the point.

Just imagine, we're playing that badly yet still 5th...

So according to your assessment of the way we're playing atm if we play even half way decently we should walk this league.

Edited 26 October, 2023 by Oldandtired

[OldNick]

16 hours ago, samcrocker said:

To those complaining about “crab” football, and not utilising the pace in our attacking players, do you not realise that everyone will sit deep and let us have the ball, not allowing space for our attackers to use their pace? The “crab” football is designed to draw them out and create space for our players to exploit. 
The alternative is we flood forward and try to get the ball through 9/10 players on the edge of their box, mostly at this level solid defenders who will kick and head it away all night with our tricky pacey players not getting a sniff. Then once we’ve got everyone in their half they counter us and score. Kind of how we used to play against Citeh…

Unfortunately we’re in the Championship with Championship players, only Leicester can claim to have a Premier League 1st 11 and be able to play on the front foot and break teams down easily all season!! 

whilst I do see that, by the time we have weaved our magic playing the ball around the back, they have had time to set their defence, lit a cigar and taken a sip of their brandy

[derry]

24 minutes ago, Oldandtired said:

Just imagine, we're playing that badly yet still 5th...

So according to your assessment of the way we're playing atm if we play even half way decently we should walk this league.

For a start places mean nothing in these circumstances. Only four points cover 3rd to 13th. Two draws could tumble us well down the league. True they count but we've scraped about seven points from injury time Hail Mary goals. So all the meaningless 72% possession statistics haven't produced much at all apart from conceding the highest goals against in the league. I'm calling for more discipline in defence, less off the cuff passing just totting up possession percentages especially in our own half.

I think we are far below the level this team could play at it's best and playing the way we are, are probably never going to be. Furthermore we are falling further behind the top two each week with current results.

[Dr Who?]

22 hours ago, Saint86 said:

Baz just scored a goal basically... Should do his confidence no end of good as well.

Well, he actually did score a goal. Great day for him. 

[Hopper]

Seems like a lot of people forget just how poor the team and the football was last season. We're not going to walk the league, we've come off the back of season after season of getting beaten into the ground. We had an abysmall squad completely bereft of confidence who had no style of play and no personallity.

No mistakes about it, the size of the job in front of RM coming in was massive. We're not playing electric football but we're a mile away from how we finished up last season.

The reaction to Baz's save and goal show just how much work has been done to get this group playing for each other. We are scoring late goals, which is obviously not ideal... but the team are battling until the death and that's more than I can remember in maybe the last 4-5 years.

It's wasn't a great performance. Holgate was abysmall again and should be nowhere near the first team. Stephens can't come back soon enough!

But we scrapped and took a difficult point away from home against a team in 4th.. Just for a bit of perspective.

Edited 26 October, 2023 by Hopper

[The Kraken]

1 hour ago, Hopper said:

Seems like a lot of people forget just how poor the team and the football was last season. We're not going to walk the league, we've come off the back of season after season of getting beaten into the ground. We had an abysmall squad completely bereft of confidence who had no style of play and no personallity.

Out of interest, what is Leicester’s excuse for their runaway start? They so abysmal last season that they lost to us. Twice.

[Dman]

12 hours ago, The Kraken said:

Out of interest, what is Leicester’s excuse for their runaway start? They so abysmal last season that they lost to us. Twice.

Its funny, at the start of the season, we had people like @Smirking_Saint telling us how they are skint etc. and that we're in a much better position then they are. 

Now its proven that's complete bollox, we're being told Leicester have only started faster than us because they weren't as bad as us last season. 

If we swapped managers, which in the summer was a fair chance of that happening, we'd be top and they'd be where we are, I'm almost certain of that. 

 

[Hodgey]

Not sure I agree with that. Firstly Leicester were 9 points better than us last season and clearly had a better team so their starting point was better. Secondly they have been much more proactive in the transfer window losing £100m of talent but spending £50m of that - and they have spent it better with Winks replacing Tielemans and the excellent Mavidi replacing Barnes, meanwhile they upgraded their keeper who arguably was a major reason for their relegation (I agree with previous posts that all 3 teams relegated last season had by far the worst gks). Simply put they have better players all over the park - ie strikers they have Vardy, Ihanacho and Daka with their £8m prospect Cannon learning in the wings. Both managers try and play a similar way (Man City style), one has much more capable players to do that with. I don’t think if we had their manager (who turned us down) we would be much different. 

[Dman]

1 minute ago, Hodgey said:

Not sure I agree with that. Firstly Leicester were 9 points better than us last season and clearly had a better team so their starting point was better. Secondly they have been much more proactive in the transfer window losing £100m of talent but spending £50m of that - and they have spent it better with Winks replacing Tielemans and the excellent Mavidi replacing Barnes, meanwhile they upgraded their keeper who arguably was a major reason for their relegation (I agree with previous posts that all 3 teams relegated last season had by far the worst gks). Simply put they have better players all over the park - ie strikers they have Vardy, Ihanacho and Daka with their £8m prospect Cannon learning in the wings. Both managers try and play a similar way (Man City style), one has much more capable players to do that with. I don’t think if we had their manager (who turned us down) we would be much different. 

FWIW I agree with and said all of this at the start of the season and was ridiculed. Not by you, but by a number of posters who've now gone quiet as its left them with egg on their face. 

[gio1saints]

2 hours ago, Dman said:

If we swapped managers, which in the summer was a fair chance of that happening, we'd be top and they'd be where we are, I'm almost certain of that. 

 

So, if I understand right, Southampton, already filled up with plenty ex Man City players, with a Man City DOF and unashamedly trying to emulate the success of Man City- but on a budget- is lacking only one thing. Which is an ex Man City assistant manager? 😃

In other words we are not Man City enough? That’s an interesting variation. Our  players are good but Maybe we are still too committed to the Saints past epitomised by losing and should go all in on Man City model ( but without the money or soon to be massive points deduction for FFP cheating). Russell is not Man City enough for Saints. Are there any other ex Man City back room staff available that you can think of? 
Arteta springs to mind. Arsenal fans wanted him out early doors as I recall but he has obviously turned it around. No comparison of course to RM. Though the vigour which Arse fans showed in wanting him out- and it was vicious- looks a bit ott in retrospect now to most Gooners. 
 

Let’s hope Saints follow a similar path to Arsenal I guess is the moral of the story! 

Edited 27 October, 2023 by gio1saints

[Dman]

37 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

So, if I understand right, Southampton, already filled up with plenty ex Man City players, with a Man City DOF and unashamedly trying to emulate the success of Man City- but on a budget- is lacking only one thing. Which is an ex Man City assistant manager? 😃

In other words we are not Man City enough? That’s an interesting variation. Our  players are good but Maybe we are still too committed to the Saints past epitomised by losing and should go all in on Man City model ( but without the money or soon to be massive points deduction for FFP cheating). Russell is not Man City enough for Saints. Are there any other ex Man City back room staff available that you can think of? 
Arteta springs to mind. Arsenal fans wanted him out early doors as I recall but he has obviously turned it around. No comparison of course to RM. Though the vigour which Arse fans showed in wanting him out- and it was vicious- looks a bit ott in retrospect now to most Gooners. 
 

Let’s hope Saints follow a similar path to Arsenal I guess is the moral of the story! 

Nice ramblings mate. Very well put together. 

I'll make it simple... Moral of the story is RM is a very average manager who isn't capable of putting a team together to challenge for promotion across 38 - 40 games. 

[gio1saints]

14 minutes ago, Dman said:

Nice ramblings mate. Very well put together. 

I'll make it simple... Moral of the story is RM is a very average manager who isn't capable of putting a team together to challenge for promotion across 38 - 40 games. 

I think that’s a fair argument. Probably not quite favourite with the bookies but still a reasonable and fact based pov. Thank you and respect.  Dman. 

[Saint_clark]

16 hours ago, Hopper said:

Seems like a lot of people forget just how poor the team and the football was last season. We're not going to walk the league, we've come off the back of season after season of getting beaten into the ground. We had an abysmall squad completely bereft of confidence who had no style of play and no personallity.

 

Sounds like a roundabout way of saying "scar tissue" to me. Doesn't really explain why Leicester are running away with the league, though. 

[gio1saints]

What was it about how bad we were  in attack, how poor we were in defence, how rubbish we were at holding onto a lead, and even worse at holding onto a manager last season that makes anyone so confident we will smash this league?
 

Let alone binning a third of the squad including our four “ best “ players ( JWP, MS, BK and OR) and attempting to integrate a new system plus bring along youngsters with promise? 

For many of us actually being in contention at top end of the table playing a consistent style makes a helluva change! 
 

The fantastic and admirable belief ( despite the facts) in Saints innate superiority as a club v rest of the league is something Nietsche would be proud of. - and which is riddled throughout so many of the discussions here. 
 

We lost a lot of what I felt Saints are truly about when we lost our humility as a club. Arguably we are now the kind of aBilly big boots club Saints fans used to despise with this u fathomable and unjustified sense of innate superiority.
 

Saints the plucky underdogs, the relegation survivors against the odds and the team many had as their “ second” team replaced by swaggering this league is shit and we should win every game attitudes. 

Im hoping we beat Brum. I think we will. Best team on the day will though. 
 

 

[tdmickey3]

2 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

What was it about how bad we were  in attack, how poor we were in defence, how rubbish we were at holding onto a lead, and even worse at holding onto a manager last season that makes anyone so confident we will smash this league?
 

Let alone binning a third of the squad including our four “ best “ players ( JWP, MS, BK and OR) and attempting to integrate a new system plus bring along youngsters with promise? 

For many of us actually being in contention at top end of the table playing a consistent style makes a helluva change! 
 

The fantastic and admirable belief ( despite the facts) in Saints innate superiority as a club v rest of the league is something Nietsche would be proud of. - and which is riddled throughout so many of the discussions here. 
 

We lost a lot of what I felt Saints are truly about when we lost our humility as a club. Arguably we are now the kind of aBilly big boots club Saints fans used to despise with this u fathomable and unjustified sense of innate superiority.
 

Saints the plucky underdogs, the relegation survivors against the odds and the team many had as their “ second” team replaced by swaggering this league is shit and we should win every game attitudes. 

Im hoping we beat Brum. I think we will. Best team on the day will though. 
 

 

Whilst I respect your right to post on here, however you do write a helluva lot without actually saying much at all 

[notnowcato]

53 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Sounds like a roundabout way of saying "scar tissue" to me. Doesn't really explain why Leicester are running away with the league, though. 

There are many reasons why.  A significant factor / differentiator between us, at quite a fundamental level, is that they have central strikers in Vardy and Iheanacho scoring at much higher rate than 1 goal in every 2 matches.  I'm not sure dropping Adams or Mara into Leicester would see them emulate Vardy or Iheanacho's scoring record. 

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, notnowcato said:

There are many reasons why.  A significant factor / differentiator between us, at quite a fundamental level, is that they have central strikers in Vardy and Iheanacho scoring at much higher rate than 1 goal in every 2 matches.  I'm not sure dropping Adams or Mara into Leicester would see them emulate Vardy or Iheanacho's scoring record. 

if you dropped Vardy and Iheanacho into saints, they would hardly score either

[notnowcato]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

if you dropped Vardy and Iheanacho into saints, they would hardly score either

Well I'd obviously disagree with that

[saintant]

7 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

What was it about how bad we were  in attack, how poor we were in defence, how rubbish we were at holding onto a lead, and even worse at holding onto a manager last season that makes anyone so confident we will smash this league?
 

Let alone binning a third of the squad including our four “ best “ players ( JWP, MS, BK and OR) and attempting to integrate a new system plus bring along youngsters with promise? 

For many of us actually being in contention at top end of the table playing a consistent style makes a helluva change! 
 

The fantastic and admirable belief ( despite the facts) in Saints innate superiority as a club v rest of the league is something Nietsche would be proud of. - and which is riddled throughout so many of the discussions here. 
 

We lost a lot of what I felt Saints are truly about when we lost our humility as a club. Arguably we are now the kind of aBilly big boots club Saints fans used to despise with this u fathomable and unjustified sense of innate superiority.
 

Saints the plucky underdogs, the relegation survivors against the odds and the team many had as their “ second” team replaced by swaggering this league is shit and we should win every game attitudes. 

Im hoping we beat Brum. I think we will. Best team on the day will though. 
 

 

I don't expect us to beat everybody - as you say, that's arrogance. What I'd love to see is a team playing a system that works and produces some sustained periods of good football that is entertaining and exciting. What I see is a turgid team making a clumsy attempt to grapple with possession football with players continually giving the ball away cheaply leading to an embarrassing goals against tally.

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, notnowcato said:

Well I'd obviously disagree with that

Our style of play is killing our forwards

[notnowcato]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

Our style of play is killing our forwards

It really isnt.

If Will Smallbone is able to find space in the box, receive a ball from a cut back and calmly score twice I'm sure as hell Vardy and Iheanacho would do the same and some more.  Many crosses have fizzed invitingly across our oppos box with none of our strikers remotely close, taking a chance, they're just not natural predators in the mould of rat boy.

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, notnowcato said:

It really isnt.

If Will Smallbone is able to find space in the box, receive a ball from a cut back and calmly score twice I'm sure as hell Vardy and Iheanacho would do the same and some more.  Many crosses have fizzed invitingly across our oppos box with none of our strikers remotely close, taking a chance, they're just not natural predators in the mould of rat boy.

it really is, they are all playing terribly