January Transfer Window 2024

[Pat from Poole]

30 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

We were 2 nil up in 3 of our last 4 home league games by 64 minute, where we ended up winning by 4 plus. You could have given players meaningful time in any of those. 

Indeed.

And yet we still waste yet more time on the Mara experiment, which is destined never to amount to anything noteworthy.

[saintwbu]

Are Brighton giving loads of their academy players game time? I can only think recently Jack Hinshelwood, and Evan Ferguson but they signed him at 16, which is essentially what we’ve been doing with Tino, Lavia, Edozie, Larios. All the other young players they’ve been using have been bought in from abroad for money. 

[Pwoite]

36 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

Who was the last player to come out of the youth ranks and become would be considered a regular?  

Tella? Smallbone? Oxlade-Chamberlain?

Define a regular, but whichever way you look at it, the cupboard is bare..... How many of Dibling, Ballard, Bragg, SAA, Meghoma, Edwards, Rodriguez, (add as appropriate) will be automatic match day players in two, three years' time?

 

 

[Master Bates]

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/24074764.southampton-recall-defender-football-league-loan-spell/

[david in sweden]

1 hour ago, notnowcato said:

Nice selection, sir.

As we seem to be ignoring cup games, which Championship matches would you have played our academy prospects in?

Looking back on the 20 unbeaten games...starting 30 sept... RM's squad has been more or less unchanged. 

exceptions  ...Sulemana played his last game at end of November,  Bree played 5 games (instead of Manning ) before injury,  

Edozie had a good run of 5 games (until injury).. Che Adams started half-a-dozen games, but scored most of his goals coming off the bench.  

The remainder of the squad has either started, or been subbed on during the entire period with rare exceptions.

Dibling and Bragg came on for short periods in games that in real terms .....were already won.    Who should we drop to start them instead ? 

RM has held to the Manager's creed....." never change a winning side " , and now isn't the time to  "experiment ", or  change personnel for fun. 

Edited January 25 by david in sweden

[Daft Kerplunk]

30 minutes ago, Pwoite said:

Tella? Smallbone? Oxlade-Chamberlain?

Define a regular, but whichever way you look at it, the cupboard is bare..... How many of Dibling, Ballard, Bragg, SAA, Meghoma, Edwards, Rodriguez, (add as appropriate) will be automatic match day players in two, three years' time?

 

 

The last player to come through the Saints academy who was Premier League level was James Ward-Prowse.  Oxlade-Chamberlain is older than Prowsey.  It's likely that unless we buy players other academies, the next Premier League level player from our academy who has developed here over a long period is likely about 10 years away.  

Edited January 25 by Daft Kerplunk

[notnowcato]

10 minutes ago, david in sweden said:

Looking back on the 20 unbeaten games...starting 30 sept... RM's squad has been more or less unchanged. 

exceptions  ...Sulemana played his last game at end of November,  Bree played 5 games (instead of Manning ) before injury,  

Edozie had a good run of 5 games (until injury).. Che Adams started half-a-dozen games, but scored most of his goals coming off the bench.  

The remainder of the squad has either started, or been subbed on during the entire period with rare exceptions.

Dibling and Bragg came on for short periods in games that in real terms .....were already won.    Who should we drop to start them instead ? 

RM has held to the Manager's creed....." never change a winning side " , and now isn't the time to  "experiment ", or  change personnel for fun. 

Indeed and no doubt some of the youngsters will get more game time this Sunday, in a lower priority game, as it should be.

[notnowcato]

40 minutes ago, saintwbu said:

Are Brighton giving loads of their academy players game time? I can only think recently Jack Hinshelwood, and Evan Ferguson but they signed him at 16, which is essentially what we’ve been doing with Tino, Lavia, Edozie, Larios. All the other young players they’ve been using have been bought in from abroad for money. 

Ferguson was ready, physically ahead of his age, he had a great start to his career but his form has dipped, as you would expect.  Hinshelwood was forced on RDZ, he literally had no other options but to give him a chance, I'm fairly certain he's playing out of position at RB too, fair play to him though he's been good for them.

[Turkish]

51 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Ferguson was ready, physically ahead of his age, he had a great start to his career but his form has dipped, as you would expect.  Hinshelwood was forced on RDZ, he literally had no other options but to give him a chance, I'm fairly certain he's playing out of position at RB too, fair play to him though he's been good for them.

Ferguson is an exceptional talent too, going to be a top player if he can stay injury free and focused. 

[Baird of the land]

1 hour ago, Daft Kerplunk said:

The last player to come through the Saints academy who was Premier League level was James Ward-Prowse.  Oxlade-Chamberlain is older than Prowsey.  It's likely that unless we buy players other academies, the next Premier League level player from our academy who has developed here over a long period is likely about 10 years away.  

I'm curious about the actual production vs the financial outlay equation looks.

[Daft Kerplunk]

5 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

I'm curious about the actual production vs the financial outlay equation looks.

I understand that this was a challenge put to previous leaders at the academy. Perhaps the CoT could confirm as they’ll be able to ask what the new CEO thought of the academy success when remnants of previous regimes were waxing lyrical about the amazing academy.  A huge amount spent, not a great deal of production. Ultimately, whilst busy patting themselves on the back, they lost their way, and spent plenty doing it. 

[BERMUDASAINT]

2 hours ago, Pat from Poole said:

Indeed.

And yet we still waste yet more time on the Mara experiment, which is destined never to amount to anything noteworthy.

So say you.........he is our young player that needs game time, one that has show more promise than KD. 

" never amount to anything"? what the fuck has he done to you? Why such the hate? 

[Midfield_General]

4 hours ago, Chez said:

we done sir.

I remember and played football with Neil. Did he play for any local non league teams after departing Saints? 

Not sure tbh… I just remember playing against him when he played for BRSA in the Tyro league and being in awe of how good he was when we were 13! 

[egg]

3 hours ago, Baird of the land said:

We were 2 nil up in 3 of our last 4 home league games by 64 minute, where we ended up winning by 4 plus. You could have given players meaningful time in any of those. 

I'm all for giving the kids minutes, but it'd be madness to bring kids on with half an hour to go when we're only 2 nil up. If we then concede a goal, we'd be in trouble.

Promotion is the key this season, not promoting kids to the first team. 

[egg]

3 hours ago, Pat from Poole said:

Indeed.

And yet we still waste yet more time on the Mara experiment, which is destined never to amount to anything noteworthy.

Who's our alternative? Stewart is crocked. 

[Weston Super Saint]

54 minutes ago, egg said:

I'm all for giving the kids minutes, but it'd be madness to bring kids on with half an hour to go when we're only 2 nil up. If we then concede a goal, we'd be in trouble.

Promotion is the key this season, not promoting kids to the first team. 

Catch 22 though.  Get promoted and next year it will be 'survival is key so no chance an untested academy player gets minutes'.

[egg]

2 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Catch 22 though.  Get promoted and next year it will be 'survival is key so no chance an untested academy player gets minutes'.

So be it. If a kid is stellar, he'll get chances. 

[Dusic]

Brooks captaining AFCB tonight so seems highly unlikely they loan him out days later.

I reckon it will be Benson or nobody for us - and literally no point bringing in a wide right attacker unless they are good enough to start games so wouldn't be overly bothered if it is nobody.

[hypochondriac]

13 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Catch 22 though.  Get promoted and next year it will be 'survival is key so no chance an untested academy player gets minutes'.

Fair enough. When we establish ourselves in the prem we will have the luxury of giving more youth a chance. 

[FarehamSaintJames]

4 minutes ago, Dusic said:

Brooks captaining AFCB tonight so seems highly unlikely they loan him out days later.

I reckon it will be Benson or nobody for us - and literally no point bringing in a wide right attacker unless they are good enough to start games so wouldn't be overly bothered if it is nobody.

Still wouldn’t be a bad window. Just another option out wide for us.

Full back is a concern if we get injuries.

[Chez]

29 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Catch 22 though.  Get promoted and next year it will be 'survival is key so no chance an untested academy player gets minutes'.

If they are good enough, they will force their way in, as JWP did when we got promoted. They may all want minutes in matches, but the manager will see how they manage at championship level every day in training. If you don't hold you own, impose yourself or shine there, by and large you aren't going to on match day.

[S-Clarke]

5 minutes ago, Chez said:

If they are good enough, they will force their way in, as JWP did when we got promoted. They may all want minutes in matches, but the manager will see how they manage at championship level every day in training. If you don't hold you own, impose yourself or shine there, by and large you aren't going to on match day.

Absolutley, as a club we're not scared to throw young players in if they're good enough. Like you say - JWP starting at Man City, Shaw coming in at the back end of that season and then starting the next season etc. 

If they're good enough they'll play, if they're not good enough they won't. I think as a club we've got as good a record of giving young players a chance than any other.

[S-Clarke]

37 minutes ago, Dusic said:

Brooks captaining AFCB tonight so seems highly unlikely they loan him out days later.

I reckon it will be Benson or nobody for us - and literally no point bringing in a wide right attacker unless they are good enough to start games so wouldn't be overly bothered if it is nobody.

And he's pretty much unplayable so far! 2 assists, Bournemouth 3-0 up and they've not even played 15 mins.

[Chez]

6 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Absolutley, as a club we're not scared to throw young players in if they're good enough. Like you say - JWP starting at Man City, Shaw coming in at the back end of that season and then starting the next season etc. 

If they're good enough they'll play, if they're not good enough they won't. I think as a club we've got as good a record of giving young players a chance than any other.

RM just needs the talent at his disposal. I know there are always good players in the youth team, but there certainly has been a lot investment (£1m on at the time 16 year old Meghoma and SAA and sizeable first pro contracts contracts) and subsequent hope that the latest batch would produce a Premiership level player or two. There still might be.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

14 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

And he's pretty much unplayable so far! 2 assists, Bournemouth 3-0 up and they've not even played 15 mins.

Apparently, if they win tonight, will only be the 5th time they been in the 5th round their entire history

[Bad Wolf]

5-0 at half time

You just know if we win on Sunday we'll get them in the next round and he'll score a hatrick and get a hatrick of assists.

[S-Clarke]

12 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

5-0 at half time

You just know if we win on Sunday we'll get them in the next round and he'll score a hatrick and get a hatrick of assists.

Swansea seem to make it easy for everyone. If they'd have played this keeper at the weekend we'd have scored more than 3 in that period.

Brooks ran that first half though, always rated him - classy operator.

[Pat from Poole]

3 hours ago, BERMUDASAINT said:

So say you.........he is our young player that needs game time, one that has show more promise than KD. 

" never amount to anything"? what the fuck has he done to you? Why such the hate? 

It’s not hate, FFS.

He’s crap. 

Lazy, slow, little presence, doesn’t hold the ball up well.

He has had too much game time as it is. He can only be trusted to come on the pitch when we are at least 2 goals up.

[egg]

2 minutes ago, Pat from Poole said:

It’s not hate, FFS.

He’s crap. 

Lazy, slow, little presence, doesn’t hold the ball up well.

He has had too much game time as it is. He can only be trusted to come on the pitch when we are at least 2 goals up.

Not a fan then? 

I'll ask again though, who's the alternative? 

[Pat from Poole]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

Not a fan then? 

I'll ask again though, who's the alternative? 

Well, we have Adam Armstrong and Che who can play centrally up top, particularly if we sign Benson, then Armstrong can revert to a striker.

The moment Ross Stewart was ruled out for the season, we should have made a new striker the first priority. 
 

it is trusting to luck with injuries and suspensions to only have two strikers who can be a threat in this League.

We didn’t have to sign Rothwell at all.

[Bad Wolf]

9 minutes ago, Pat from Poole said:

It’s not hate, FFS.

He’s crap. 

Lazy, slow, little presence, doesn’t hold the ball up well.

He has had too much game time as it is. He can only be trusted to come on the pitch when we are at least 2 goals up.

You're thinking of Adams.

[egg]

9 minutes ago, Pat from Poole said:

Well, we have Adam Armstrong and Che who can play centrally up top, particularly if we sign Benson, then Armstrong can revert to a striker.

The moment Ross Stewart was ruled out for the season, we should have made a new striker the first priority. 
 

it is trusting to luck with injuries and suspensions to only have two strikers who can be a threat in this League.

We didn’t have to sign Rothwell at all.

Ross Stewart has been crocked since he's been here so Mara was our only back up. Nobody can complain that the only alternative is played. 

Armstrong is crap through the middle, and it'd be nuts to shift him given his form imo. 

Che has been used. 

Rothwell will be decent imo, and frees SA up to push wide left or right. No harm in having extra depth in the middle for the run in. 

It's a game of opinions, but I'm genuinely struggling to understand your complaint about the manager playing the lad (in small amounts) when he's had no other option. 

[saints1988]

Doyle will not be the last to leave out of this batch of youngsters.

I have been told by someone who coaches within the club that youth team players that have gone through the age groups where not happy with the terms offered to the two players we got in from Tottenham recently.

For a number of years, the club has had a structure around salaries for youth players - that went out the window for the two high profile signings from Tottenham and it did not go down well.

Personally, if I had dedicated my development since an 8 year old to a certain club and had been told that we have a structure around financials to keep kids grounded and that changes to hoover up talent elsewhere, it would not sit right with me.

 

 

 

[Dusic]

1 hour ago, saints1988 said:

Doyle will not be the last to leave out of this batch of youngsters.

I have been told by someone who coaches within the club that youth team players that have gone through the age groups where not happy with the terms offered to the two players we got in from Tottenham recently.

For a number of years, the club has had a structure around salaries for youth players - that went out the window for the two high profile signings from Tottenham and it did not go down well.

Personally, if I had dedicated my development since an 8 year old to a certain club and had been told that we have a structure around financials to keep kids grounded and that changes to hoover up talent elsewhere, it would not sit right with me.

 

 

 

Of Doyle's 'batch' the ones that are good enough to potentially play PL football have either already left (Doyle, JJM) or signed pro (Dibling - after also leaving, Ballard, SAA, Meghoma).

I don't think there is anyone else considered top prospect until you get to Gomes and Miles, both of whom it will surely be hard to keep.

Assuming you are referring to Meghoma and SAA, I get the point but at the end of the day we signed them because they are good...and good costs money.

I would much rather we were active in trying to get the likes of SAA than not bothering incase it offends someone who may not make it anyway. I would be shocked if we were not willing to offer Doyle or Dibling a similar wage to what SAA or Meghoma are on.

[Wade Garrett]

8 hours ago, saints1988 said:

Doyle will not be the last to leave out of this batch of youngsters.

I have been told by someone who coaches within the club that youth team players that have gone through the age groups where not happy with the terms offered to the two players we got in from Tottenham recently.

For a number of years, the club has had a structure around salaries for youth players - that went out the window for the two high profile signings from Tottenham and it did not go down well.

Personally, if I had dedicated my development since an 8 year old to a certain club and had been told that we have a structure around financials to keep kids grounded and that changes to hoover up talent elsewhere, it would not sit right with me.

 

 

 

Youth team players?  Come a long way since future internationals Shearer, Wallace and Le Tissier had to get by on £26 per week.

[egg]

8 hours ago, saints1988 said:

Doyle will not be the last to leave out of this batch of youngsters.

I have been told by someone who coaches within the club that youth team players that have gone through the age groups where not happy with the terms offered to the two players we got in from Tottenham recently.

For a number of years, the club has had a structure around salaries for youth players - that went out the window for the two high profile signings from Tottenham and it did not go down well.

Personally, if I had dedicated my development since an 8 year old to a certain club and had been told that we have a structure around financials to keep kids grounded and that changes to hoover up talent elsewhere, it would not sit right with me.

 

Who would we be desperate to keep who isn't on a pro contract? 

[CB Fry]

8 hours ago, saints1988 said:

Doyle will not be the last to leave out of this batch of youngsters.

I have been told by someone who coaches within the club that youth team players that have gone through the age groups where not happy with the terms offered to the two players we got in from Tottenham recently.

For a number of years, the club has had a structure around salaries for youth players - that went out the window for the two high profile signings from Tottenham and it did not go down well.

Personally, if I had dedicated my development since an 8 year old to a certain club and had been told that we have a structure around financials to keep kids grounded and that changes to hoover up talent elsewhere, it would not sit right with me.

 

 

 

It's going to blow their little minds when they find out that players at every professional football club in the country are on wildly varying salaries, often with no direct correlation to performance on the pitch.

Stick the lot of them on YTS forms and get the entitled fuckers some boots to clean.

[JRM]

Football fans love a "homegrown" player, "he's one of our own" but reality is most top academies just nick players in their mid teens from other clubs, makes you wonder what the future is for youth development, not much point if the best players just end up leaving before establishing themselves anyway. 

[gio1saints]

1 hour ago, JRM said:

Football fans love a "homegrown" player, "he's one of our own" but reality is most top academies just nick players in their mid teens from other clubs, makes you wonder what the future is for youth development, not much point if the best players just end up leaving before establishing themselves anyway. 

Yes it’s an obvious sign of the “ development” of the game. Those days of local lads playing for your team are gone for the reason you mention. 

Something of a tangent on that but if fans really want to support “ one of our own” they could do worse than try advocate for a “ State of Origin” match approach in Australia. Mind you it might mean Pompey players in same team as Saints so perhaps not! 😳

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, JRM said:

Football fans love a "homegrown" player, "he's one of our own" but reality is most top academies just nick players in their mid teens from other clubs, makes you wonder what the future is for youth development, not much point if the best players just end up leaving before establishing themselves anyway. 

for most if not all clubs it's a revenue generator. Look at us, we've handed Man City £50m or so in the last couple of seasons for player who were never going to get anywhere near their first team. It's probably cost them less than £50k to bring these players through. Same with Chelsea, they hoover up all the best players in the region but the reality is when they're spending hundreds of millions a year on new players hardly any are going to make the first team, so they sell them on. Man City have just nicked a kid from Leeds who was meant to be one of the best players in the country in his age group, rumours are they're sniffing round Archie Grays younger brother who is meant to be even better than Archie. 

Even our model is to give them a few years in the first team and sell them, we've made tens millions from Shaw, Bale, JWP, Chamberlain, Walcott, Targett etc, even the ones we've got a bit later from other clubs like Tella so like everything in football it comes down to money and not Corteses dream of seeing a team full of academy players winning the champions league.

[S-Clarke]

Brooks words after the match last night, not sure a loan is out of the equation yet - probably why this one will go to the wire.

Quote

"Without being disrespectful, I've had two years out so I want to play, regardless of the circumstances.

"I'm looking to do that. I want first-team football, especially for my own career. Wales have some big qualifiers coming up so I am looking to play as many minutes as possible.

"I just want to play first-team football. I'd love to continue my football here, but I think it's up to everyone to decide what the best situation is."

He continued: "If he thinks there isn't guaranteed first-team football for me here then I will explore opportunities elsewhere. 

"It is up to the gaffer and what he wants. I can try to work around that."

 

Edited January 26 by S-Clarke

[SaintsFan86]

After brooks performance against Swansea it proves at championship level it would be a cheat code.

If Saints bring him in, then he starts every game at RW and  Arma provably goes up top. 

If Saints manage to bring in Benson, then Arma stays wide right. That's the difference. 

Edited January 26 by SaintsFan86
.

[Wade Garrett]

39 minutes ago, SaintsFan86 said:

After brooks performance against Swansea it proves at championship level it would be a cheat code.

If Saints bring him in, then he starts every game at RW and  Arma provably goes up top. 

If Saints manage to bring in Benson, then Arma stays wide right. That's the difference. 

Where would Benson play then?

[DT]

Klopp leaving Liverpool at end of the season. Can we have Virgil back?

[VectisSaint]

5 minutes ago, DT said:

Klopp leaving Liverpool at end of the season. Can we have Virgil back?

Might explain where Russell Martin was yesterday, interviews already taking place.

[East Kent Saint]

7 minutes ago, DT said:

Klopp leaving Liverpool at end of the season. Can we have Virgil back?

I don't think he will want to sit on the bench waiting for  Janny B to get injured.

[Turkish]

12 minutes ago, DT said:

Klopp leaving Liverpool at end of the season. Can we have Virgil back?

Lets hope they take years to recover like Man United.

[david in sweden]

2 hours ago, JRM said:

Football fans love a "homegrown" player, "he's one of our own" but reality is most top academies just nick players in their mid teens from other clubs, makes you wonder what the future is for youth development, not much point if the best players just end up leaving before establishing themselves anyway. 

Good teenage talents need the challenge of playing at a better level.   Few would deny that Saints have one of the best Academy set-ups in the country 

and each generation brings it own.  The fact that they didn't " make it " with Saints was often down to ..* .managerial changes, " bad timing,"  or bad injuries . 

Jack Stephens came from Plymouth at 16, and was part of our successful Academy group of those born around 1995/6 that included players like;

JWP,  Shaw, Targett, Chambers, Reed,  Sims, Hesketh  and McQueen.   Some others just " got lost " along the way like Ben White  ( a late developer who  

eventually went from Brighton to Arsenal ( and later England ), but just didn't  " make the cut " in that vital year that was most important. 

 

The fact they many of them moved onto other clubs was no criticism of their performances, but when first team places were nailed down by the likes of

international players like; Bertrand, Long, Mane and Davis ... just when they needed to get first team football at a crucial stage in their development, and 

some of the above were sadly just " victims " of the one of those situations ( * named above). 

Shaw and later Targett wouldn't have got past Bertrand (except on a good day), Chambers left for big money when he was (perhaps)  a bit too young ,

Harrison Reed was just " spare " ..at the wrong time, but did OK at Fulham .  Sam McQueen might have been the natural replacement for Bertrand, but for

his career-ending injury whilst the other midfield prospects (mentioned above) were in a long queue behind the likes of Steven Davis and JWP. 

 

With many first teams already fielding good teenage talents, the pressure is even greater on the Academies to come up with their best prospects, and any 

player who doesn't at least get on the bench, and get game time on a regular basis will be looking to their future by the time he's 21/22. 

Edited January 26 by david in sweden

[Lee On Solent Saint]

22 minutes ago, DT said:

Klopp leaving Liverpool at end of the season. Can we have Virgil back?

Que the massive over the top media wank fest that is about to happen.

[Mr Nimbus]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

for most if not all clubs it's a revenue generator. Look at us, we've handed Man City £50m or so in the last couple of seasons for player who were never going to get anywhere near their first team. It's probably cost them less than £50k to bring these players through. Same with Chelsea, they hoover up all the best players in the region but the reality is when they're spending hundreds of millions a year on new players hardly any are going to make the first team, so they sell them on. Man City have just nicked a kid from Leeds who was meant to be one of the best players in the country in his age group, rumours are they're sniffing round Archie Grays younger brother who is meant to be even better than Archie. 

Even our model is to give them a few years in the first team and sell them, we've made tens millions from Shaw, Bale, JWP, Chamberlain, Walcott, Targett etc, even the ones we've got a bit later from other clubs like Tella so like everything in football it comes down to money and not Corteses dream of seeing a team full of academy players winning the champions league.

Thats the key thing. It will also likely become even more of a priority now due to FFP, and "homegrown" players being classed as pure profit.

You've seen it with City selling Palmer to Chelsea and obviously as you say us signing a fair few (and probably signing THB if we get promoted)