Tonight’s fans forum.

[notnowcato]

12 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

You're splitting hairs.

When people talk about players wanting out when we don't get promoted we're clearly worried about losing our best players and being left with the shit ones that are happy with being in the championship. Nobody is saying James Bree, Will Smallbone and Sekou Mara will be demanding transfers to premier league clubs, what we're talking about is the scenario in which they become first choice players because the better ones have left.

Not really. Your point was about starting ‘Russball’ again next summer if we don’t get promoted, when clearly the majority of the squad, that we have some control over, will be in place enabling the refresh of new players into the squad to be a much smaller change to the overhaul we’re currently in the middle of. 

[AlexLaw76]

3 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Not really. Your point was about starting ‘Russball’ again next summer if we don’t get promoted, when clearly the majority of the squad, that we have some control over, will be in place enabling the refresh of new players into the squad to be a much smaller change to the overhaul we’re currently in the middle of. 

Seeing how we will have a significant turn over of players, it will likely be starting again. He can't get a consistent tune out of these players, dread to think what our transformation into 2022 Swansea will be like 

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, Long Shot said:

Pro RM fans argue we are just one point from the play offs (actually it’s two because of our awful GD) but should note Millwall just sacked their manager and they are just 3 points from the play offs. Also Rowett has finished above Martin the last two seasons. 

Let’s be more Millwall, great point. 

[notnowcato]

2 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Seeing how we will have a significant turn over of players, it will likely be starting again. He can't get a consistent tune out of these players, dread to think what our transformation into 2022 Swansea will be like 

Sorry, are you talking about if we’re promoted or not promoted??

 

(I might be fucking with you)

[Long Shot]

39 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Let’s be more Millwall, great point. 

They will probably be above us come Saturday evening. That’s how low we are sinking with a manager who talks the talk but is yet to walk it. 

[trousers]

57 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Sorry, are you talking about if we’re promoted or not promoted??

Going off on a slight tangent but, based on what was divulged by JW and RM at this week's tactics forum, do you still believe that SR won't "fuck about with a 2 year plan for promotion" as things stand?

Edited 20 October, 2023 by trousers

[Saint_clark]

1 hour ago, notnowcato said:

Not really. Your point was about starting ‘Russball’ again next summer if we don’t get promoted, when clearly the majority of the squad, that we have some control over, will be in place enabling the refresh of new players into the squad to be a much smaller change to the overhaul we’re currently in the middle of. 

Ok, so let's say we lose the players you list upon not going up. 

We lose from the squad;

THB

KWP

Alcaraz

Sulemana

Downes

Holgate

Fraser

S. Armstrong

Che Adams

McCarthy

Lumley

Bednarek 

 

I also believe we will lose;

Edozie

A. Armstrong

And you think that won't constitute serious upheaval and effectively reset any progress made towards learning the style of play.

 

[gio1saints]

With all due respect to all the above people stating that if we do not get promoted we will lose all our best players / team. That’s so true I don’t know why it keeps getting repeated. 
 

BUT it is also true that Saints ALWAYS lose our best players/ team - win lose or draw. Season after season.
 

Let us not try to pretend Saints have not been a selling club like everyone else the last twenty years - or that if the price is right and it suits then we sell anyone. It makes not one iota of difference what league we are in. Whether we are top ten EPL or mid table Championship. 

Watching some of you belatedly,  Frantically, worrying about something that’s been happening for decades at Saints but somehow giving it a 2023 twist to suggest it’s now the reason we MUST go up this season is grasping at straws.
 

Breaking news to you : Players will leave SFC - period.
 

I get we are frustrated and want wins and want promotion. But frightening ( or trying to frighten) us with the doom and gloom of “losing our best players” if we don’t is a pretty feeble excuse of an argument.

Guess what? If we win all our matches rest of this season I think we are going to get promoted but, sadly, lose all our best players - sound familiar??? We been doing it forever. 

Edited 20 October, 2023 by gio1saints

[AlexLaw76]

5 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

 

Breaking news to you : Players will leave SFC - period.
 

 

Fuck me. Never thought of this!

[trousers]

59 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

With all due respect to all the above people stating that if we do not get promoted we will lose all our best players / team. That’s so true I don’t know why it keeps getting repeated. 
 

BUT it is also true that Saints ALWAYS lose our best players/ team - win lose or draw. Season after season.
 

Let us not try to pretend Saints have not been a selling club like everyone else the last twenty years - or that if the price is right and it suits then we sell anyone. It makes not one iota of difference what league we are in. Whether we are top ten EPL or mid table Championship. 

Watching some of you belatedly,  Frantically, worrying about something that’s been happening for decades at Saints but somehow giving it a 2023 twist to suggest it’s now the reason we MUST go up this season is grasping at straws.
 

Breaking news to you : Players will leave SFC - period.
 

I get we are frustrated and want wins and want promotion. But frightening ( or trying to frighten) us with the doom and gloom of “losing our best players” if we don’t is a pretty feeble excuse of an argument.

Guess what? If we win all our matches rest of this season I think we are going to get promoted but, sadly, lose all our best players - sound familiar??? We been doing it forever. 

I don't believe anyone is suggesting that Saints player turnover rates are going to be hugely different to before, quite the opposite in fact - we all know a self-sustaining club requires certain levels of player turnover - but doesn't that underline the point that some people are making? i.e. it's going to be more difficult to deal with player turnover if the new philosophy is more dependant on player continuity than under previous systems / regimes?

Edited 20 October, 2023 by trousers

[Toussaint]

54 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

With all due respect to all the above people stating that if we do not get promoted we will lose all our best players / team. That’s so true I don’t know why it keeps getting repeated. 
 

BUT it is also true that Saints ALWAYS lose our best players/ team - win lose or draw. Season after season.
 

Let us not try to pretend Saints have not been a selling club like everyone else the last twenty years - or that if the price is right and it suits then we sell anyone. It makes not one iota of difference what league we are in. Whether we are top ten EPL or mid table Championship. 

Watching some of you belatedly,  Frantically, worrying about something that’s been happening for decades at Saints but somehow giving it a 2023 twist to suggest it’s now the reason we MUST go up this season is grasping at straws.
 

Breaking news to you : Players will leave SFC - period.
 

I get we are frustrated and want wins and want promotion. But frightening ( or trying to frighten) us with the doom and gloom of “losing our best players” if we don’t is a pretty feeble excuse of an argument.

Guess what? If we win all our matches rest of this season I think we are going to get promoted but, sadly, lose all our best players - sound familiar??? We been doing it forever. 

I believe the flaws in this argument are:-

1. we haven't had to factor in Russball Radicalisation in previous seasons, a system of football that is so complex most of us stupid fans and most of the players seemingly struggle to comprehend it. Confusingly the opposition seem to have sussed it out a few games into the season.

2. When we have lost our best players in the past we have charismatic top quality managers who could attract new high calibre talent, Koeman as one example. We have also had premier league income plus player sales revenue to rebuild we have now sold most of the family silver.

3. We are now in the championship, if we fail to get promoted this season our financial and playing resources will be seriously diminished going into next.

4. We do not have Marcus Liebherr this time to pull us from the brink of oblivion. 

But, as you say, keep winning and this all becomes academic. However, I'll say again, we need to bounce back his season. 

 

[notnowcato]

2 hours ago, trousers said:

Going off on a slight tangent but, based on what was divulged by JW and RM at this week's tactics forum, do you still believe that SR won't "fuck about with a 2 year plan for promotion" as things stand?

Fuck me, this is controversial / scraping the barrel.  Good to see Turkish thinks promotion will be a bonus this season. 🤔

I'm not sure what you're referring to at the Fans Forum.

[saintant]

1 hour ago, gio1saints said:

With all due respect to all the above people stating that if we do not get promoted we will lose all our best players / team. That’s so true I don’t know why it keeps getting repeated. 
 

BUT it is also true that Saints ALWAYS lose our best players/ team - win lose or draw. Season after season.
 

Let us not try to pretend Saints have not been a selling club like everyone else the last twenty years - or that if the price is right and it suits then we sell anyone. It makes not one iota of difference what league we are in. Whether we are top ten EPL or mid table Championship. 

Watching some of you belatedly,  Frantically, worrying about something that’s been happening for decades at Saints but somehow giving it a 2023 twist to suggest it’s now the reason we MUST go up this season is grasping at straws.
 

Breaking news to you : Players will leave SFC - period.
 

I get we are frustrated and want wins and want promotion. But frightening ( or trying to frighten) us with the doom and gloom of “losing our best players” if we don’t is a pretty feeble excuse of an argument.

Guess what? If we win all our matches rest of this season I think we are going to get promoted but, sadly, lose all our best players - sound familiar??? We been doing it forever. 

Breaking news for you, RM's system of play is, by his own admission, very difficult to learn. If we don't go up and there is more major upheaval next pre-season, with new players having to learn this exceedingly difficult way of playing football, we'll be almost back to square one so results are likely to follow the pattern we are seeing now. The point many are making is how do we get out of this perpetual cycle? It seems a fair question.

[notnowcato]

2 hours ago, Long Shot said:

They will probably be above us come Saturday evening. That’s how low we are sinking with a manager who talks the talk but is yet to walk it. 

Now you're confusing me... do you want to be more Millwall or not?  Let's see where we are after 46 games, like it or not RM will be here for the duration.

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Fuck me. Never thought of this!

NOOOOOO!!!! Most players will leave if we're not promoted. 

[notnowcato]

5 minutes ago, saintant said:

Breaking news for you, RM's system of play is, by his own admission, very difficult to learn. If we don't go up and there is more major upheaval next pre-season, with new players having to learn this exceedingly difficult way of playing football, we'll be almost back to square one so results are likely to follow the pattern we are seeing now. The point many are making is how do we get out of this perpetual cycle? It seems a fair question.

With a really simple answer, it's not a perpetual cycle. 

[trousers]

9 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Fuck me, this is controversial / scraping the barrel.  Good to see Turkish thinks promotion will be a bonus this season. 🤔

I'm not sure what you're referring to at the Fans Forum.

Ok, regardless of what was discussed the Fans Forum, do you still think that SR won't "fuck around with a 2 year plan for promotion"?

[saintant]

Just now, notnowcato said:

With a really simple answer, it's not a perpetual cycle. 

I described what I think will happen if we don't get promoted and suggested this could continue - to me what I describe constitutes a perpetual cycle ie a situation or process that repeats itself in an ongoing manner.

You're welcome.

[notnowcato]

3 minutes ago, trousers said:

Ok, regardless of what was discussed the Fans Forum, do you still think that SR won't "fuck around with a 2 year plan for promotion"?

Do I think we can achieve promotion this season?  Yes.

Is this the route I thought they'd take, back in May?  No.  

[notnowcato]

5 minutes ago, saintant said:

I described what I think will happen if we don't get promoted and suggested this could continue - to me what I describe constitutes a perpetual cycle ie a situation or process that repeats itself in an ongoing manner.

You're welcome.

A perpetual cycle is where you start again from the very same state you started the previous cycle.  If you think that's the case then fair enough, I disagree.

[Fabrice29]

4 hours ago, once_bitterne said:

The more time argument makes no sense.  We will lose the loan players, Stu and Adams are out of contract and players like KWP, Bednarek and Alcaraz won't spend a second season in the 2nd tier.

There can be no continuity.  We will be starting afresh next season with a greatly different first XI.

Even if we go up I’d be surprised if KWP and Alcaraz stay fwiw. 

[saintant]

9 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

A perpetual cycle is where you start again from the very same state you started the previous cycle.  If you think that's the case then fair enough, I disagree.

Just to help you the following example was given by the Collins English dictionary.  It doesn't seem to align with your opinion that it has to 'start again from the very same state you started the previous cycle in'  although I'm sure you'll disagree.

It's just part of the perpetual cycle of public opinion on architecture and the arts.

Times, Sunday Times

 

 

 

[gio1saints]

45 minutes ago, saintant said:

Breaking news for you, RM's system of play is, by his own admission, very difficult to learn. If we don't go up and there is more major upheaval next pre-season, with new players having to learn this exceedingly difficult way of playing football, we'll be almost back to square one so results are likely to follow the pattern we are seeing now. The point many are making is how do we get out of this perpetual cycle? It seems a fair question.

Fair point. And sorry for previously using the condescending term “breaking news” - it was kind of cheap and disrespectful. Soz. 

My response : 

RM & friends has had to teach our club a whole new system. Dozens of players plus the back up teams. All over the last whatever weeks it’s been. 

IF we don’t go up or if we DO go up I believe we will lose players.

BUT, and this is the main point- only the replacement players we getin would need teaching the new way - not the whole club once more.

And, to be clear, I believe we will need more new players to learn it whether we go up or not - for reasons already stated.
 

That is the nub of the response to you. Staff  turnover is not as bad a boogeyman as you might think- we have to engineer it in as a given win lose or draw anyways. We would not be back in a “perpetual cycle.” Unless by that you mean the one in which we develop great players then sell them to top six.  That’s a perpetual cycle I reckon!
 

Caveat: As long as there is a plan and a process in place. 

I will not be shy in calling JW or RM out if they change the rules of the regime halfway - but to date I think our best bet is to give our players and our manager as much encouragement as we can. 
 

[notnowcato]

29 minutes ago, saintant said:

Just to help you the following example was given by the Collins English dictionary.  It doesn't seem to align with your opinion that it has to 'start again from the very same state you started the previous cycle in'  although I'm sure you'll disagree.

It's just part of the perpetual cycle of public opinion on architecture and the arts.

Times, Sunday Times

 

 

 

Whilst your thumbing through a dictionary, look up context.

[Dark Munster]

4 hours ago, gio1saints said:

Replacing what would be our fourth manager in 18 months and 5 in 18 might seem a better option than the path we are currently in But, weirdly, I respectfully disagree. I think that’s guaranteed to further unsettle club and support. 
 

 

There’s a simple solution to not having to replace 4 managers in 18 months.  Stop hiring crap ones.

As long as Ankersen keeps choosing failures as part of his cunning, genius plan this cycle of disaster will continue. And keeping his latest crap manager on past his sell by date (which was after the Leicester debacle) won’t solve the problem, only prolong it.

Dragan needs to tell JM to sort this mess out now, get rid of RM and find a replacement with zero input from Ankersen, and preferably advice from outside experts.

This cycle of shit has to end now. 

[warsash saint]

1 hour ago, Toussaint said:

I believe the flaws in this argument are:-

1. we haven't had to factor in Russball Radicalisation in previous seasons, a system of football that is so complex most of us stupid fans and most of the players seemingly struggle to comprehend it. Confusingly the opposition seem to have sussed it out a few games into the season.

2. When we have lost our best players in the past we have charismatic top quality managers who could attract new high calibre talent, Koeman as one example. We have also had premier league income plus player sales revenue to rebuild we have now sold most of the family silver.

3. We are now in the championship, if we fail to get promoted this season our financial and playing resources will be seriously diminished going into next.

4. We do not have Marcus Liebherr this time to pull us from the brink of oblivion. 

But, as you say, keep winning and this all becomes academic. However, I'll say again, we need to bounce back his season. 

 

Just how many contradictions can you make in one post? 🤣

Edited 20 October, 2023 by warsash saint

[gio1saints]

34 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

There’s a simple solution to not having to replace 4 managers in 18 months.  Stop hiring crap ones.

As long as Ankersen keeps choosing failures as part of his cunning, genius plan this cycle of disaster will continue. And keeping his latest crap manager on past his sell by date (which was after the Leicester debacle) won’t solve the problem, only prolong it.

Dragan needs to tell JM to sort this mess out now, get rid of RM and find a replacement with zero input from Ankersen, and preferably advice from outside experts.

This cycle of shit has to end now. 

I personally thought Ralph was a good appointment. And for a good while it was a blast.

I personally thought Jones was worth supporting though iffy but we took a chance and fucked it up. Selles was a non recruitment stop gap move.

Russell has shown already he has good qualities. And some he needs improving in.

But it’s hardly fair to describe it as a “cycle of shit” unless you have a very glass half empty outlook. 

 

Your solution of sack everyone and replace them has not really worked to date. Maybe sacking Ankersen and Russell ( I presume JW must go as well) and getting in replacements for all of them is a better bet than actually giving the team more time than - what you reckon he should have gone after the Leicester result - what’s that 8 matches in?😂

Do you realise what you are saying? If the new manager is not brilliant within 8 games he must go not only him the whole lot above him. I think Dark Munster you must be a having a giraffe with me. 😄

Edited 20 October, 2023 by gio1saints

[trousers]

1 hour ago, notnowcato said:

Whilst your thumbing through a dictionary, look up context.

Do you have to work long hours on perfecting your sarcastic/self-righteous tone or does it just come naturally? Either way, I'm very impressed.... 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Lego head is the David Brent of managers. 
 

He hasn’t reinvented the wheel, he hasn’t devised some new tactical innovations that are so specialist it takes weeks for professionals to learn. He’s making excuses wrapped up in pony management waffle. 

Edited 20 October, 2023 by Lord Duckhunter

[gio1saints]

3 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Lego head is the David Brent of managers. Love it! 😂
 

He hasn’t reinvented the wheel, 👍✅ he hasn’t devised some new tactical innovations that are so specialist it takes weeks for professionals to learn. 👍✅He’s making excuses wrapped up in pony management waffle. ❌😂

Lord D, Post of the week! 😍

RM stood up the other night and expressly said it was his fault no excuses. 

He showed where it had gone wrong and why, and what he was doing about it. Not in the form of “pony management waffle” ( excellent term of derision btw) but with straightforward English and some videos.

Oh and he used a laser pointer thing- THAT was pony granted. But the explanation ( NOT excuse) was, in my opinion, reasonable. 

Returning to “Pony management waffle” though. I’m sure if you told Lego head ( not sure that’s all that funny but it’s not bad I guess and it’s got a certain ring to it)  about your description of his explanation as pony management waffle he may well agree with you. He seems that kind of bloke. 
Ask him yourself - bet you he agrees! 

[notnowcato]

25 minutes ago, trousers said:

Do you have to work long hours on perfecting your sarcastic/self-righteous tone or does it just come naturally? Either way, I'm very impressed.... 

Do I come across as sarcastic/ self righteous?  Sad to hear that. 

[trousers]

2 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Do I come across as sarcastic/ self righteous?  Sad to hear that. 

Maybe I was getting yourself and gio1saint mixed up... Easily done...

[CB Fry]

Has anyone here got a visual representation of what a "perpetual cycle" would look like?

[notnowcato]

3 minutes ago, trousers said:

Maybe I was getting yourself and gio1saint mixed up... Easily done...

Haha  I can see what you’re doing here Trousers.  
I can barely be bothered to try and educate / respond / ingratiate myself to the planks on here with one user account. Having said that Gio1 seems a decent person. 

[notnowcato]

1 minute ago, CB Fry said:

Has anyone here got a visual representation of what a "perpetual cycle" would look like?

Calling Trousers to this thread

[Lord Duckhunter]

19 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

RM stood up the other night and expressly said it was his fault no excuses. 

 

Was this no excuses pony before or after he claimed Rotherham was a freak result & Statto called to say  we’d win it 98 times out of 100? 

[Dark Munster]

1 hour ago, gio1saints said:

I personally thought Ralph was a good appointment. And for a good while it was a blast.

But it’s hardly fair to describe it as a “cycle of shit” unless you have a very glass half empty outlook. 

Ralph was ok, until the end when he'd given up. And he was hired well before Ankersen arrived and started his disastrous RMS Titanic captaincy.

Incompetent recruitment, flushing tens of millions down the toilet, hiring managers that the majority could see immediately were out of their depth. Relegated in rock bottom place. Continuing with another hopeless manager and blowing our golden chance of bouncing back up.

I'd think anyone with half a brain would view that as a cycle of shit. And my glass isn't half empty, it's completely empty.

Edited 20 October, 2023 by Dark Munster

[gio1saints]

I think he said it at the beginning but it may have been in the middle. Or the end. He did say it. Honest. 

He was self deprecating all night.
 

Described his football ability as “ crap” , Described his ability as a fb as “ crap”  also, described playing for a “little country “ called Scotland. He can take a joke and takes the piss out of himself.
 

When asked what’s the idea with not leaving a player up front from corners he says with a big smile “ i don’t really know” let’s ask xyz ( our Swedish set piece guy who was very good btw). 
 

Nobody likes arrogance. But my impression is that he’s honest, committed and passionate. Obstinacy Is his middle name but he’s articulate in his beliefs. Maybe the all- black outfits look he wears is a little Silicon Valley or TED talk like but if all I got is critiquing his clothes…

Edited 20 October, 2023 by gio1saints

[sfc4prem]

3 hours ago, notnowcato said:

A perpetual cycle is where you start again from the very same state you started the previous cycle.  If you think that's the case then fair enough, I disagree.

Fuck me, you must be bored. How much fucking time have you spent making strawman arguments and digging holes these past two days? Take a break!

[Whitey Grandad]

55 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Has anyone here got a visual representation of what a "perpetual cycle" would look like?

[saintant]

2 hours ago, notnowcato said:

Whilst your thumbing through a dictionary, look up context.

Sorry, you've lost me there.

[trousers]

1 hour ago, notnowcato said:

Haha  I can see what you’re doing here Trousers.  
I can barely be bothered to try and educate / respond / ingratiate myself to the planks on here with one user account. Having said that Gio1 seems a decent person. 

The main conspiracy theory I'm working on at the moment is that either or both of you is/are the long lamented Saintbletch. Spookily similar traits... I'll keep you posted on the outcome of my investigations.... 

Edited 20 October, 2023 by trousers

[Challenger]

8 hours ago, warsash saint said:

So what makes us 'gullible' as you so eloquently put it??

Let me get this right, you personally tell me to fuck off ( as you eloquently put it )then ask me to justify my use of the word gullible which I used generally rather than directly to you ?

Nah,I don't think so.

Soak up all you want from the heirachy at St Mary's, I guess you lapped it up last season as well,but I suggest you trust what happens on the pitch rather than the smooth talk coming from the boardroom/dressing room/interview room and you won't, ultimately be disappointed.

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, sfc4prem said:

Fuck me, you must be bored. How much fucking time have you spent making strawman arguments and digging holes these past two days? Take a break!

Thanks for your concern. ❤️

[notnowcato]

40 minutes ago, trousers said:

The main conspiracy theory I'm working on at the moment is that either or both of you is/are the long lamented Saintbletch. Spookily similar traits... I'll keep you posted on the outcome of my investigations.... 

You little flatterer, Trousers. I’d forgotten about Bletch, he was a legend for a while on here, but I would say that, wouldn’t I??

Edited 20 October, 2023 by notnowcato

[Convict Colony]

Aside from the good snippets on page 1 from the event this thread since then is more about complaints.

Any chance anyone who went can give a few more insights on the tactics, expectation that they have etc etc. Just some sort of wider review of the discussion, how it was received etc as based on the initial views it seems those who went really enjoyed it and have more confidence in what we are trying to do.

 

[trousers]

1 hour ago, notnowcato said:

You little flatterer, Trousers. I’d forgotten about Bletch, he was a legend for a while on here, but I would say that, wouldn’t I??

[suewhistle]

3 hours ago, trousers said:

Do you have to work long hours on perfecting your sarcastic/self-righteous tone or does it just come naturally? Either way, I'm very impressed.... 

I suspect he finds it as easy as you find your own posting style. Unfortunately I'm not in a position this late on a Friday night to elucidate..

[The Kraken]

7 minutes ago, suewhistle said:

I suspect he finds it as easy as you find your own posting style. Unfortunately I'm not in a position this late on a Friday night to elucidate..

On the booze again eh Sue?! Cor, what are you like?! 🤪

[suewhistle]

No, it was the effing home grown chillie, whaaaa.. seriously! 🙂