Tonight’s fans forum.

[Convict Colony]

7 hours ago, Dman said:

Its clearly a PR stunt to try and get fans on board after the boo's are starting to return to St Marys, but it comes across as arrogance from the club, beyond belief. 

Martin, the master of mid-table, is in no position to start lecturing of how his tactics 'will come good'.

It hasn't taken Enzo time to get a tune out of Leicester, playing a very similar style.

Come on lets do Santa Claus next, I'd guess its something like the following:

"Clearly a PR stunt of a burglar who has been caught and told the homeowners he was leaving presents not stealing them, the arrogance of the burglar expecting us to believe he was doing a good thing and helping someone is arrogance beyond belief".

Edited 19 October, 2023 by Convict Colony

[LGTL]

This is all completely and utterly pointless propaganda for a team sitting mid-table in the Championship. The arrogance is astounding. 

‘Taking time’ argument doesn’t quite work when he’s left his previous clubs exactly where we find ourselves. 

[John B]

4 minutes ago, LGTL said:

This is all completely and utterly pointless propaganda for a team sitting mid-table in the Championship. The arrogance is astounding. 

‘Taking time’ argument doesn’t quite work when he’s left his previous clubs exactly where we find ourselves. 

I think you a bit unrealistic to think this bunch of players would be in an automatic prpmotion position at the end of October

 

Get real it is gpoing to take time to become a realistic pomtion bound team

 

Not sure any of the squad would have got into Adkins squad regularly apart from KWP

[LGTL]

9 minutes ago, John B said:

I think you a bit unrealistic to think this bunch of players would be in an automatic prpmotion position at the end of October

 

Get real it is gpoing to take time to become a realistic pomtion bound team

 

Not sure any of the squad would have got into Adkins squad regularly apart from KWP

Mission accomplished for Jase and Russ! We’re all just happy to be here!

[Toadhall Saint]

Talk is cheap - let’s see what happens on the pitch - that place where it actually matters 

[Turkish]

41 minutes ago, LGTL said:

This is all completely and utterly pointless propaganda for a team sitting mid-table in the Championship. The arrogance is astounding. 

‘Taking time’ argument doesn’t quite work when he’s left his previous clubs exactly where we find ourselves. 

Just you wait until those last nine games when we go on a run to just miss out on the play offs. Then next season when all our decent players leave we’ll have another 10 new signings that will take 37 games to learn Russball

[Micky]

I'm somewhat confused by RM's 'it takes time' argument.  This is football, every single manager knows that the one thing they probably won't get is time...!  They'll get the best of all the other resources that professional football demands, but time is the one thing very few managers get.  We all know this is a results based industry, it's all about here and now, and right now we are performing below par.  We need significant improvement to get the results to get us up the table, simple as.  That is the only thing that is going to buy RM time. 

[Challenger]

2 hours ago, Challenger said:

 

The Jehovah's witnesses must have a field day knocking on the doors of the gullible guppies if this BS is believed.

[Saint Garrett]

29 minutes ago, Micky said:

I'm somewhat confused by RM's 'it takes time' argument.  This is football, every single manager knows that the one thing they probably won't get is time...!  They'll get the best of all the other resources that professional football demands, but time is the one thing very few managers get.  We all know this is a results based industry, it's all about here and now, and right now we are performing below par.  We need significant improvement to get the results to get us up the table, simple as.  That is the only thing that is going to buy RM time. 

He’ll get a lot more time than the avg manager IMO, due to the complete rebuild the club are doing, don’t forget Wilcox is also new this summer. Whether it’s Martin, or someone else, it’ll still be the same style of football, so you might as well just keep Martin as long as there is progress. Ultimately we don’t know how this all ends, but I’m fully behind it. Life’s too short to whine about something that hasn’t happened yet, but I also appreciate others have a different mindset and that’s up to them, 

[suewhistle]

7 hours ago, Give it to Ron said:

Oh yeah those inverted full backs work so well ignoring other tactics posted.

Blimey, you've been traumatised by inverted full backs!

 

On a more general point can I suggest that the more cynical posters on this thread, and that seems to be their default position on anything, go to one of these events in future so that they can give their own first hand impressions and maybe even ask a question or two?

There really is no point people giving their accounts if the replies are going to be the same predictable moans.

 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

1 hour ago, Micky said:

I'm somewhat confused by RM's 'it takes time' argument.  This is football, every single manager knows that the one thing they probably won't get is time...!  They'll get the best of all the other resources that professional football demands, but time is the one thing very few managers get.  We all know this is a results based industry, it's all about here and now, and right now we are performing below par.  We need significant improvement to get the results to get us up the table, simple as.  That is the only thing that is going to buy RM time. 

We've had four managers in 15 months, we can't keep going like this

Edited 19 October, 2023 by Ex Lion Tamer

[Fabrice29]

12 minutes ago, suewhistle said:

Blimey, you've been traumatised by inverted full backs!

 

On a more general point can I suggest that the more cynical posters on this thread, and that seems to be their default position on anything, go to one of these events in future so that they can give their own first hand impressions and maybe even ask a question or two?

There really is no point people giving their accounts if the replies are going to be the same predictable moans.

 

This is what makes me laugh the most. This guy for example wanted more challenging questions asked but obviously was too in awe to ask them himself.

[warsash saint]

1 hour ago, Challenger said:

The Jehovah's witnesses must have a field day knocking on the doors of the gullible guppies if this BS is believed.

I am sceptical as most on RM but came away more positive last night ... so please fuck off labelling those who bothered to listen as 'gullible guppies'

[saint michael]

All these years and I never realised how complicated football is. These guys have been trained through the academy system and are supposed to be the shining lights, yet none of them seem to understand the basics that Martin is wanting. How different is his passing, how hard is it to say pass to one of our players how hard is it to say play forward, run, tackle read positions and movement etc etc. 

I have certainly lost the plot. The best way of getting better and stronger is not letting goals in and scoring more, winning creates confidence and with this comes stronger bonds between players and the team and scares the opposition. 
 

Skill and will go together. We are concentrating on learning without purpose. You are not unlucky to have so much of the stats against Rotherham and lose, you are not unlucky or lack bravery by letting early goals in….all to F ing complicated and for me very boring slow obvious football with obvious outcomes.

[ally_uk]

Considering the strength of our squad anything other than promotion this season is a catastrophe. 

Dress it up all you want 

" We need time " 

What so we can float around this league and lose further assets in the Summer..... 

 

 

[Osvaldorama]

The teams that get promoted from this league battle hard, do the basics well & look solid defensively. 
You then need a player or two with good finishing skills to put away any chances which come your way. 
 

We do literally none of those things. It worries me that it was Jack Stephens that had to instil some discipline. Isn’t that literally the managers job? 

[West end Saints]

Win every game we go up. 

We are improving. 

We are playing some good quality attacking football. 

Results still disappointing. 

I'm happy with him as our manager for the foreseeable future. 

But with all managers, lose 6 in a row you are shit, win 6 you are great, in between there will be mix of views. 

[saints-til-i-die]

2 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

This is what makes me laugh the most. This guy for example wanted more challenging questions asked but obviously was too in awe to ask them himself.

You do realise that it’s pot luck whether you get picked or ask a question?

[saints-til-i-die]

You have made yourself look a bit silly Fabrice29. Lots of hands went up but only 1 or 2 got to ask questions. 

[benjii]

If we don't go up this season then a big chunk of the first XI will leave. Then next season it'll be, "there are lots of new faces, it'll take time for them to understand what we're asking them to do..." rinse and repeat.

A long term strategy within the club is a good idea and it should contribute, over time, to a higher chance of having a good team. At a first team level, the only thing that matters is winning the next game.

If you have a good player then unless you are one of the big few clubs you have about two years to extract maximum return from them.

[Saint_clark]

16 hours ago, Saint_lambden said:

There's certainly a lot of hysteria about. Just a reminder that after the same amount of games last season, Burnley had just one more point than us. 

We've a more solid foundation now, helped by playing a more consistent X1 each week, so I think our biggest concern moving forward will be if we're clinical enough to finish games off. We're creating plenty, but need Adams to get out of his funk and start scoring or hope Ross Stewart can hit the ground running. We'll be in and around the play-offs, but probably not good enough/street smart enough to go up this season. 

Burnley had also only lost one game after 12 and I'm pretty sure the amount their conceded was in the single figures, although for some reason I can't find the website that lets you look at tables after a certain amount of games anymore. 

They were laying a solid foundation for a title push, we're setting ourselves up for a season seesawing between just outside the playoffs and teetering into the bottom half.

Did anyone ask the manager exactly how patient we have to be? When should we start seeing consistent results from this footballing master plan? 

We're wasting this season with one of the best squads in the league trying to adapt it to a new style of play. By the time they've got it, it's too late for promotion so we're looking at next season and most of the players will want out so we start all over again.

[notnowcato]

I feel another SaintsWeb myth emerging.  The “most players will want out if not promoted this season”. The 2 important words in this emerging myth being “most” and “want”.

Most and want in this context suggests over half the first team squad will move of their own volition if we’re not promoted. For now, we’ll leave to one side the fact that some will move even if we are promoted. We’ll also ignore those on loan and those coming to the end of their contract as their future is outside the club’s control and not necessarily dependent on the league we’d be playing in.

If we’re not promoted this season we will more than likely lose:

KWP, Alvarez, Sulemana. 
 

We might lose:

Shea, Stu, Bednarek 

 

Am I wrong?  Can we stop peddling myths as facts??

[FarehamSaintJames]

If we don’t go up SR will begin to get hounded out, probably alongside Wilcox and Martin.

I’m not sure part of Sport Republic’s three year plan was to get relegated, bring in players with promise that don’t live up to the hype, and spunk parachute payments up the wall.

[Turkish]

56 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

I feel another SaintsWeb myth emerging.  The “most players will want out if not promoted this season”. The 2 important words in this emerging myth being “most” and “want”.

Most and want in this context suggests over half the first team squad will move of their own volition if we’re not promoted. For now, we’ll leave to one side the fact that some will move even if we are promoted. We’ll also ignore those on loan and those coming to the end of their contract as their future is outside the club’s control and not necessarily dependent on the league we’d be playing in.

If we’re not promoted this season we will more than likely lose:

KWP, Alvarez, Sulemana. 
 

We might lose:

Shea, Stu, Bednarek 

 

Am I wrong?  Can we stop peddling myths as facts??

Why are you ignoring loans? That's 5 players that will have spent the season learning Russball, who wont be here. So in addition to the players you mentionWe'll also lose Harwood-Bellis, Frazer, Downes, Holgate, McCarathy and Adam out of contract along with S Armstrong

So a minimum of 5 from the first team so half the outfield players wont be here, 10 from the squad, possibly 13, so the only one peddling myths is you

Edited 20 October, 2023 by Turkish

[Fabrice29]

8 hours ago, saints-til-i-die said:

You have made yourself look a bit silly Fabrice29. Lots of hands went up but only 1 or 2 got to ask questions. 

I’ve been at those forums where people have spoke and asked questions politely ‘off the cuff’ and been answered. It’s organised to bring structure but if you really have something to say it can be said. 

[notnowcato]

3 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Why are you ignoring loans? That's 5 players that will have spent the season learning Russball, who wont be here. So in addition to the players you mentionWe'll also lose Harwood-Bellis, Frazer, Downes, Holgate, McCarathy and Adam out of contract along with S Armstrong

So a minimum of 5 from the first team so half the outfield players wont be here, 10 from the squad, possibly 13, so the only one peddling myths is you

Simply because the loans and out of contract players are unlikely to be with us whether we are promoted or not, therefore cannot add ahem credibility to the myth of us losing most of the squad if we’re not promoted. 
 

You’re welcome. 

[Turkish]

55 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Simply because the loans and out of contract players are unlikely to be with us whether we are promoted or not, therefore cannot add ahem credibility to the myth of us losing most of the squad if we’re not promoted. 
 

You’re welcome. 

Harwood-Bellis will be as we've got an agreement to sign him if we go up. Downes might stay, so that's 4, possibly 5 of out best 10 starting outfield players wont be here next season. Possibly another 8 squad players. Stop altering facts

Edited 20 October, 2023 by Turkish

[Challenger]

11 hours ago, warsash saint said:

I am sceptical as most on RM but came away more positive last night ... so please fuck off labelling those who bothered to listen as 'gullible guppies'

Let's see what the rest of the season brings, and then debate it. Just because someone " bothered" to go or not will have absolutely fuck all bearing on it.

[notnowcato]

27 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Harwood-Bellis will be as we've got an agreement to sign him if we go up. Downes might stay, so that's 4, possibly 5 of out best 10 outfield players wont be here next season. 

The myth is (paraphrasing) "most players will want out if we're not promoted this season and so 'Russball' will have to start again" - it's clearly bollocks.  We will lose, arguably, some of our best players (of which some we have no control over) but the majority who will stay for next season know how to play the way Jason and Russell wants.

[Saint_clark]

2 hours ago, notnowcato said:

I feel another SaintsWeb myth emerging.  The “most players will want out if not promoted this season”. The 2 important words in this emerging myth being “most” and “want”.

Most and want in this context suggests over half the first team squad will move of their own volition if we’re not promoted. For now, we’ll leave to one side the fact that some will move even if we are promoted. We’ll also ignore those on loan and those coming to the end of their contract as their future is outside the club’s control and not necessarily dependent on the league we’d be playing in.

If we’re not promoted this season we will more than likely lose:

KWP, Alvarez, Sulemana. 
 

We might lose:

Shea, Stu, Bednarek 

 

Am I wrong?  Can we stop peddling myths as facts??

Says it's a myth that we will lose our best players if we don't get promoted. 

Proceeds to list the players we would lose if we don't get promoted all of whom are our best players. 

[gio1saints]

 

Did anyone ask the manager exactly how patient we have to be? When should we start seeing consistent results from this footballing master plan? 
 

Thats a great question at the heart of the debate we are having on this forum right now- and no doubt on the terraces of SMS and at Hull shortly. 
 

Despite some of the acrimony theres no question all sides on this discussion only want Saints to do well. So we have a common goal in mind 100%. When by thought? 
 

The major difference, I suggest, is that after 11 games some have seen enough. Patience is finite.  Whereas others do not have such a definitive number of games or points number in kind.
 

Neither are “ wrong” . 

NB. my caveat is abusing the team& manager ( v legitimate criticising)- ditto abusing those who defend the team and manager ( v debate criticising) -  both are disgraceful. 

Im in the “ do not have a definitive number of games or points” camp. And I DO understand those who can argue that this is dangerously stupidly madly wrong.

Last season was a right mess.

Indeed the last few years were very disappointing.
 

But NOBODY could accurately judge how long it was going to take to dig out all the obvious decay, standards depreciation and general depression within Southampton Football Club.
 

NOBODY could accurately judge how the restart would execute, how long it would take for minds to clear, players to leave, new to start, for new positive thinking to take root and flourish.

NOBODY -  despite what any footballing business plans SR might produce - and no matter how desperately we saints supporters want it all yesterday 
 

We as supporters are brilliant at endlessly deluding ourselves that we are all ok if we win on Saturday or all terrible if we do not. 

Id prefer we concentrate on getting the last vestiges of fear anxiety and depression out of our club ( that’s Russell’s job) replaced with positivity clarity of thought and a coherent style of football ( that’s Russell’s job too). 
 

GET that right and we will start winning games playing brilliant football. Doing it in a sustainable way even better. (That means not needing to buy big fee players but developing them ourselves). 
 

IF that happens we don’t need worry so much about “ when by” as the points and results and promotions and supporter happiness accordingly will all come. 
 

BUT for those that insist - I think k at least one season. I want to judge on how the club is evolving in a holistic way - yes ultimately  points- but I just think that there is VALUE in stability after all the rubbish we’ve been through. Time itself is a great healer. Trying to force it and getting angry when it’s not at the pace we’d like- well that’s no doing our health any good nor frankly helping players perform.
Anxiety is the enemy- for fans AND players. All support can do really to help is - encourage. 

Edited 20 October, 2023 by gio1saints

[Turkish]

33 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

The myth is (paraphrasing) "most players will want out if we're not promoted this season and so 'Russball' will have to start again" - it's clearly bollocks.  We will lose, arguably, some of our best players (of which some we have no control over) but the majority who will stay for next season know how to play the way Jason and Russell wants.

It's not a myth, we will have too. As i said above we will probably lose half of our first choice outfield players and 10-13 from our squad. If we take your list of players that will leave plus loans that wont be here (which you've strangely decided to leave out) from the starting XI in out last game we will Bazunu, Smallbone, Manning and Adam Armstrong. On the bench Aribo, Mara, Edozie, Bree

4 out of 11 starting left and 8 out of 20 in the match day squad. 

Tell us again why it's  myth?

[notnowcato]

13 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Says it's a myth that we will lose our best players if we don't get promoted. 

Proceeds to list the players we would lose if we don't get promoted all of whom are our best players. 

Try reading it again. 
 

You said, paraphrasing, most of our squad will be off if we’re not promoted this season. Apologies for calling out bollocks when I see it.  

[notnowcato]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

It's not a myth, we will have too. As i said above we will probably lose half of our first choice outfield players and 10-13 from our squad. If we take your list of players that will leave plus loans that wont be here (which you've strangely decided to leave out) from the starting XI in out last game we will Bazunu, Smallbone, Manning and Adam Armstrong. On the bench Aribo, Mara, Edozie, Bree

4 out of 11 starting left and 8 out of 20 in the match day squad. 

Tell us again why it's  myth?

I’ve tried to enlighten you twice. 

[saintant]

2 hours ago, notnowcato said:

I feel another SaintsWeb myth emerging.  The “most players will want out if not promoted this season”. The 2 important words in this emerging myth being “most” and “want”.

Most and want in this context suggests over half the first team squad will move of their own volition if we’re not promoted. For now, we’ll leave to one side the fact that some will move even if we are promoted. We’ll also ignore those on loan and those coming to the end of their contract as their future is outside the club’s control and not necessarily dependent on the league we’d be playing in.

If we’re not promoted this season we will more than likely lose:

KWP, Alvarez, Sulemana. 
 

We might lose:

Shea, Stu, Bednarek 

 

Am I wrong?  Can we stop peddling myths as facts??

We'll also lose Che Adams whether people like him or not. Add the loan players such as Downes and THB to the list. Along with those you mention that's a large percentage of players in and around the first team who'll need to be replaced by newcomers who will have to come in and learn RM's convoluted system at the start of next season. In those circumstances how are we expected to improve and move forward? It does feel as though it threatens to become a case of rinse and repeat while hovering around mid-table if we don't go up this season. I suspect RM has this grand idea of how he wants his teams to play but he is not convincing me that he and his coaches have the necessary skill levels to teach and implement it - this is my concern because progress to date should be far more evident than what we have seen so far, not just in terms of results but also in terms of performance levels. We need to see a strong display tomorrow and hopefully a win.

Edited 20 October, 2023 by saintant

[once_bitterne]

1 hour ago, notnowcato said:

 therefore cannot add ahem credibility to the myth of us losing most of the squad if we’re not promoted. 
 

You’re welcome. 

Could you do again in English?

[Long Shot]

Pro RM fans argue we are just one point from the play offs (actually it’s two because of our awful GD) but should note Millwall just sacked their manager and they are just 3 points from the play offs. Also Rowett has finished above Martin the last two seasons. 

[Turkish]

12 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

I’ve tried to enlighten you twice. 

Can you spell it out then? If we lose half out first choice team and half our squad leaving us only with the worst players we currently have, how is that not losing our best players and having to start again?

[AlexLaw76]

1 hour ago, notnowcato said:

The myth is (paraphrasing) "most players will want out if we're not promoted this season and so 'Russball' will have to start again" - it's clearly bollocks.  We will lose, arguably, some of our best players (of which some we have no control over) but the majority who will stay for next season know how to play the way Jason and Russell wants.

if we dont go up...

KwP, THB, Bednarek, Holgate, Downes, Sully, Fraser, Adams, Alcaraz....potentially, S.Armstrong, Aribo 

They will go. 

That is the vast majority of our matchday first team squad. Can you please explain your view of "the majority"

Edited 20 October, 2023 by AlexLaw76

[warsash saint]

1 hour ago, Challenger said:

Let's see what the rest of the season brings, and then debate it. Just because someone " bothered" to go or not will have absolutely fuck all bearing on it.

So what makes us 'gullible' as you so eloquently put it??

[once_bitterne]

The more time argument makes no sense.  We will lose the loan players, Stu and Adams are out of contract and players like KWP, Bednarek and Alcaraz won't spend a second season in the 2nd tier.

There can be no continuity.  We will be starting afresh next season with a greatly different first XI.

[wild-saint]

24 minutes ago, once_bitterne said:

The more time argument makes no sense.  We will lose the loan players, Stu and Adams are out of contract and players like KWP, Bednarek and Alcaraz won't spend a second season in the 2nd tier.

There can be no continuity.  We will be starting afresh next season with a greatly different first XI.

exactly this. We dont go up ths season it will be much harder next year and we will have another influx of players (probably not as good) and i predict within 2/3 years we will change manager to a Nathan Jones long ball style to kick our way out like the other clubs that tend to go up via the play offs rely on.

What good times are coming for the happy clappy patient types. 

[Turkish]

26 minutes ago, once_bitterne said:

The more time argument makes no sense.  We will lose the loan players, Stu and Adams are out of contract and players like KWP, Bednarek and Alcaraz won't spend a second season in the 2nd tier.

There can be no continuity.  We will be starting afresh next season with a greatly different first XI.

It's pretty weird how anyone can argue otherwise really.

[gio1saints]

Weird or not here goes: 

The opposite of “ it takes tIme ” is “ results now”. Give or take. 
 

The biggest gripe seems to be we will not go up and lose all our players if we carry on this path. 
 

There’s no clear alternative solution favoured atm but it’s as clear as day that  those who want it now don’t think the style suits SFC ( it does suit our owners obviously - it’s really them it does not suit ) 
 

JW and RM have set out their position on that. We are not ditching the process but are amenable to tweaks is the gist of it. Anything other than that you guys are saying JW and RM OUT but dont feel courageous enough to come out with it - yet. 

 

IF you look at it logically then from your perspective it can only mean one thing. RM and JW must go. It follows that unless SR change the style that  they too, must go. 

 

Replacing what would be our fourth manager in 18 months and 5 in 18 might seem a better option than the path we are currently in But, weirdly, I respectfully disagree. I think that’s guaranteed to further unsettle club and support. 
 

 

Edited 20 October, 2023 by gio1saints

[Saint_clark]

1 hour ago, notnowcato said:

Try reading it again. 
 

You said, paraphrasing, most of our squad will be off if we’re not promoted this season. Apologies for calling out bollocks when I see it.  

You're splitting hairs.

When people talk about players wanting out when we don't get promoted we're clearly worried about losing our best players and being left with the shit ones that are happy with being in the championship. Nobody is saying James Bree, Will Smallbone and Sekou Mara will be demanding transfers to premier league clubs, what we're talking about is the scenario in which they become first choice players because the better ones have left.

[TheAlehouseBrawlers]

We’re going to see a big change in players next season whether we go up or remain in the Championship. As said, fail to get promoted and certain players will want out (+ loans).

Go up and half this side won’t be suited to the PL anyway and will need changing. You’d need to spend a fortune recruiting the quality to play this possession style immediately in that world. We’ll sign cheap and have to teach them Russball. Fucked by Xmas.

And we’ll also have some we’ve sent out on loan (deemed not good enough/don’t want to be here) returning and back on the payroll.

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, once_bitterne said:

Could you do again in English?

After you… 

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

Can you spell it out then? If we lose half out first choice team and half our squad leaving us only with the worst players we currently have, how is that not losing our best players and having to start again?

The point you appear to be deliberately missing is the relevance of promotion or not to us losing players. 
 

It’s in the thread, read it if you really care. 

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, notnowcato said:

The point you appear to be deliberately missing is the relevance of promotion or not to us losing players. 
 

It’s in the thread, read it if you really care. 

we will lose our best players, and some not so best players. 

Pretty straight forward really

[Toussaint]

In summary, we really need to go up this season or we could spend years in the doldrums, as many clubs, much bigger than Saints, have done in the past. That I see is the  reason, and justification for the impatience and acrimony. He needs to turn it round soon, ideally starting tomorrow, time and tide waits for no man, including the good talkers and smooth operators.