Is our squad better now than in our promotion season?

[Ex Lion Tamer]

The answer is definitely no right now, but if you take potential into account, then I think it might be actually. The big difference is lack of ruthless goalscorers

Davis - Bazunu (but Baz has the potential to be as good in a few seasons)

Hooiveld - Bednarek

José Fonte - THB (But THB has potential to be as good or better)

Fox - Manning

Richardson - KWP

Lallana - Alcaraz (But Alcaraz has the potential to be as good)

Cork = Downes (maybe Downes is better, I couldn't decide)

Schneiderlin - Smallbone

Sharp - Sulemana (But Sully has the potential to be much better)

Guly - S Armstrong 

Lambert - A. Armstrong

[Lighthouse]

From our current team I'd have Bazunu, KWP and probably Sully (over Guly, not Sharp). The rest would be 100% 2011/12, even Fox who was an assist machine and I swear not AS bad as Manning defensively.

[notnowcato]

The manager has the potential to be much better 😉

[verlaine1979]

Fox was a fantastic crosser of the ball. Completely found out as a defender at PL level, but he was a cut above as an attacking FB in a dominant team in the Champ.

[hypochondriac]

It's not about individuals it's about the team. 

[Long Shot]

For me Manning sums up our team. Tries hard, runs about a bit but an average Championship player who is error strewn and lacking in positional discipline.  

[Saint_clark]

Davis

KWP

Fonte

Hooiveld

Fox

Sulemana

Schneiderlin

Cork

Lallana

Lambert

Sharp

 

Even KWP is debatable, Richardson was absolutely superb that season. 

[CSA96]

29 minutes ago, Long Shot said:

For me Manning sums up our team. Tries hard, runs about a bit but an average Championship player who is error strewn and lacking in positional discipline.  

Bit like Dan Harding / Danny Fox, then? 

[Dusic]

Squad: yes

Individual quality: no, because we had players like Lallana, Lambert, Fonte, Schneiderlin

[CB Fry]

The biggest issue is the current team has been slung together.

The promotion squad had a core that was into its third season, with quality being added as it went.

 

By March, say, we may see that the back five that played last night have proven to be just as good as Kelvin, Jos and co.

And maybe Ross Stewart is an instant legend by then.

[Saint_clark]

5 hours ago, CSA96 said:

Bit like Dan Harding / Danny Fox, then? 

Harding was never first choice and barely played the season we played in the championship. Fox was only error prone and lacking in discipline when we reached the Prem. Fox was an excellent player at this level.

Manning so far is about Harding's level, he'd probably be brilliant in league one. 

[Bad Wolf]

4 hours ago, Dusic said:

Squad: yes

Individual quality: no, because we had players like Lallana, Lambert, Fonte, Schneiderlin

Sully is better now than Lallana was then IMO.

(Not saying he's better than Lallana ever was mind)

[Lord Duckhunter]

4 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Sully is better now than Lallana was then IMO.

 

Nurse!!!!!

[Bad Wolf]

6 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Davis

KWP

Fonte

Hooiveld

Fox

Sulemana

Schneiderlin

Cork

Lallana

Lambert

Sharp

 

Even KWP is debatable, Richardson was absolutely superb that season. 

So was Butterfield. Though I think KWP is better than both individually, I think I'd trade KWP for the choice of Butterfield OR Richardson

[Saint_clark]

3 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

So was Butterfield. Though I think KWP is better than both individually, I think I'd trade KWP for the choice of Butterfield OR Richardson

Forgot about Butterfield entirely! Whilst KWP might have better ball control Richardson and Butterfield were both more effective going forward, although that may have more to do with having Lambert on the end of their crosses.

[Bad Wolf]

Just now, Saint_clark said:

Forgot about Butterfield entirely! Whilst KWP might have better ball control Richardson and Butterfield were both more effective going forward, although that may have more to do with having Lambert on the end of their crosses.

Yes, that routine with Butterfield or Richardson floating it into the back post onto Lambert to cushion a header down to Lallana or Sharp was gold. It's something we did week after week and yet the opposition very rarely had an answer for it.

[swannymere]

NO

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

6 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Sully is better now than Lallana was then IMO.

(Not saying he's better than Lallana ever was mind)

No way. Lallana was a key player, consistently good, a mainstay of the side, 13 goals from midfield that year too

[Bad Wolf]

2 minutes ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

No way. Lallana was a key player, consistently good, a mainstay of the side, 13 goals from midfield that year too

Not disputing that but everytime Sully has touched the ball so far in his few games he's just oozed class.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

13 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

It's not about individuals it's about the team. 

I think the point is that not only is our first 11 not so good as then, but we're also not benefiting from the team playing together for two years.

So although I'm as guilty as anyone of expecting promotion this season, perhaps that's not realistic when a number of our top players still young and not near their best abilities. Although we can probably expect some improvement as the season progresses.

The other possibility is we do have a promotion level team and the previous one was just even better. And actually Adkins wasn't a great manager and should have had us winning the league. 

Overall though, I do think a lot of it comes down to the fact we're not clinical in front of goal. Hopefully Stewart will help.

[Miltonaggro]

The fans were better, and that's what counts...

[Chez]

15 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

The answer is definitely no right now, but if you take potential into account, then I think it might be actually. The big difference is lack of ruthless goalscorers

Davis - Bazunu (but Baz has the potential to be as good in a few seasons)

Hooiveld - Bednarek

José Fonte - THB (But THB has potential to be as good or better)

Fox - Manning

Richardson - KWP

Lallana - Alcaraz (But Alcaraz has the potential to be as good)

Cork = Downes (maybe Downes is better, I couldn't decide)

Schneiderlin - Smallbone

Sharp - Sulemana (But Sully has the potential to be much better)

Guly - S Armstrong 

Lambert - A. Armstrong

I'd take Cork over Downes. Cork's no stop running was a massive part of why that side was effective. He regained the ball so often in games, allowing players like Lallana to get the ball high up the pitch a lot. 

You are missing Dean Hammond (started 31 games), who'd have to be ahead of Sharp, who only started 11 games (Connelly started 17, as did Chaplow). Slightly different type of player to Stu. Guly va Sulemana might be a better comparison. Different types of course. Maybe need a bit more time to see how Sulemena works out, as Guly's ten goals made a big difference.

Hammond - S Armstrong

Guly - Sulemena

 

[pimpin4rizeal]

If you tried to look at this debate without the hindsight glasses on though I think you would easily go for our current squad ..

The promotion team was basically a mix of players who had stepped up from league one .. even lambert unproven in the championship  

whilst current squad many have played at prem level some still looking good there like kwp Alcaraz sula .strikers having proven 20 goal seasons like AA and Adams’..

i think it would be hard to argue the promotion team look better on paper if you didn’t already they got promoted and went on to better 

[skintsaint]

5 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

Sully is better now than Lallana was then IMO.

Lallana was quality that season, think he chipped in with double figure goals as well. 

[Challenger]

If you were pissed in the pub and this question was mooted then may be. But in the cold light of day, nowhere near it.

[AlexLaw76]

Without hindesight, yes it is better now.

This squad should be serious contenders for top 2. If you asked anyone at the start of that promotion season, no way.

Obviously, we had some serious players and leaders in that team

[CSA96]

6 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Harding was never first choice and barely played the season we played in the championship. Fox was only error prone and lacking in discipline when we reached the Prem. Fox was an excellent player at this level.

Manning so far is about Harding's level, he'd probably be brilliant in league one. 

Harding played in half the games and Fox was constantly caught upfield and out of position (a bit like Manning). Great going forward, sure. I'd agree with the summary, though I don't think Fox was ever excellent. He was good though.