Saints 1-1 Rotherham - Match Thread

[IronCitySaint]

When the morons running the club get to analyse their spreadsheets on Monday, they will no doubt be orgasmic about the stats for the match. No doubt they will all walk around slapping each other on the back at how much possession we had. They will be congratulating themselves at how clever they all are. As usual, the important stats will be ignored. The ones that show yet another failure to win and that a third of the crowd nodded off watching the crab football. 

Wish they would all just piss off.

[Cabrone]

The board should have seen enough to make an assessment of RM by now.

Mine is that he is mid table quality at best.

I'd get rid before our season gets flushed away.

[S-Clarke]

Win that 1-0 and it would be viewed as a comfortable, no issues win. Absolutely baffled as to how they got anything out of that, a total and utter freak of a result.

Their keeper played a blinder, but our play 2nd half was all too slow and predictable. And when it goes on like that, you're only one random moment away from an equaliser.

9 times out of 10 we win that game, first half there was nothing wrong with us, but we went into a shells a bit second half.

Plainly obvious to me that auto promotion is going to be no where near us this year and I have to say I'm pretty devastated by that, we shouldn't be a play off hunting team with the squad we have. But that's the position we've got ourselves in so we've got to run with it. We'll probably go on a winning run when it doesn't matter.

[rallyboy]

That wasn't a bad performance, but it was probably the worst good one I've ever seen.

Toothless.

[Block41 Saint]

Just seen their goal back. Why is Bazunu that far off his line?

[Bad Wolf]

12 minutes ago, gallaghert366@yahoo.com said:

Where was that fact available to morons like myself?

The Echo reported it prior to the game. Obviously that's a questionable sauce but no doubt had they reported that he was dropped because Martin didn't like his hair or something it would be taken as Gospel.

[goodymatt]

3 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Win that 1-0 and it would be viewed as a comfortable, no issues win. Absolutely baffled as to how they got anything out of that, a total and utter freak of a result.

Their keeper played a blinder, but our play 2nd half was all too slow and predictable. And when it goes on like that, you're only one random moment away from an equaliser.

9 times out of 10 we win that game, first half there was nothing wrong with us, but we went into a shells a bit second half.

Plainly obvious to me that auto promotion is going to be no where near us this year and I have to say I'm pretty devastated by that, we shouldn't be a play off hunting team with the squad we have. But that's the position we've got ourselves in so we've got to run with it. We'll probably go on a winning run when it doesn't matter.

Fully agree with this assessment and to already be out of the running for automatic places with this squad and our resources is unacceptable. For that reason I can understand why Martin is being questioned. I just feel that today’s result wasn’t on him at all. I’d say 9 times out of 10 we win this game by multiple goals. To only score once today was ridiculous. 

Edited 7 October, 2023 by goodymatt

[Midfield_General]

Classic Saints. Incredibly frustrating and of course we should have won that, but 7 points from 9, and 3 points off third place - I would have taken that a week ago. 

[Saint Matty 76]

Nothing short of complacent. Should’ve been over by half time.

Not seen it a second time but should Bazunu be getting beat like that?

I don’t know. Shocking result.

Hands down the worst team I’ve seen come to St Mary’s in the 20 years I’ve been going games.

[S-Clarke]

2 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

Fully agree with this assessment and to already be out of the running for automatic places with this squad and our resources is unacceptable. For that reason I can understand why Martin is being questioned. I just feel that today’s result wasn’t on him at all. I’d say 9 times out of 10 we win this game by multiple goals. To I to score once today was ridiculous. 

Today was just one of those weird days you get, our issues were prior to this when we shipped goals against Sunderland, Leicester, Boro etc - that's what killed our season. We needed 9 points out of 9 from these 3 to bring us remotely back to the rabble, but we didn't. We cannot afford the 4 defeats in a row with teams like Leicester in the league, who will probably get in excess of 100 points without breaking sweat.

Edited 7 October, 2023 by S-Clarke

[Hodgey]

Frustrating though it is - it does seem like this was one of those days. We created good chances and dominated.

Not sure I can slate RM for today as it looks like his tactics did break a resolute team down, we just finished appallingly. 

Another bad home result though, and if we don’t turn that around we won’t be going up. Even with a pretty average start we are 3 points off 3rd - so whilst automatics look increasingly unlikely (we won’t catch Leicester, but Ipswich could fall apart if they lose a few) we are in the mix and if Stewart comes in firing we could see dramatic improvement.

[stknowle]

28 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

10 shots on target , something we used to dream about 😄

Yep, just like comfortable wins.

[Bad Wolf]

17 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

We all do mush but we wont with this clown, but perhaps we could all clap like performing seals like you irrespective of the tactical garbagethis fool wants us to use resulting in pathetic results like this one

Do we? I certainly don't. The PL has caused a rot in our fanbase. 

If by some miracle we went up this season, what would you consider success the year after? Somewhere between 7th and 9th? Maybe a cup final  to go with it? News flash, stuff like that just doesn't happen to clubs like us.

[Norm]

I’m so pleased I didn’t pay to watch that, I saw 80 minutes online. Really boring possession football, tip tap tip tap. I accept their keeper had a good game but it was a drab spectacle. Did we assume we would win and play as if they were no threat? 
Rotherham, 1-1 against possibly the weakest team in the Div. 

[stknowle]

12 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

I watched him a lot second half and I noticed so many times where in defensive positions he wanted to have a touch for the sake of it. Comparing him with Lavia last year is obviously completely unfair in terms of ability; but when getting the ball from the defence, Lavia was so often looking to play on the turn and make things happen. Smallbone (and others tbf) just seem to want to get the ball from the defenders and play it straight back to them on the first touch. It’s not “brave” as we’re told, it’s just non committal, and just pegs us into having possession while the other team gently gets all their players back into position. It’s ponderous and predictable.

So true. It's utter shit propaganda football. 80% possession stats mean the square root of fuck all if the other team do more or as much with their 20%. Also, it's FUCKING BORING to watch.

[S-Clarke]

2 minutes ago, stknowle said:

Yep, just like comfortable wins.

On any other day this is a comfortable win, just a freak result honestly. The issue isn't todays game, it's those 4 defeats in a bounce meaning that we need to be pretty much perfect every week - at least at home to get anywhere near the top 2. Teams who go up automatic don't lose 4 in a row, so it was always a tall order after that. In the bigger picture 7 out of 9 isn't terrible, but just not enough because of the strength of Leicester.

[Baz Fl]

We haven’t had a proper goal scorer for 3 seasons and it was the main reason for most of our problems and pain which finally led to relegation. So when we went into yet another transfer window to fix it we bought an injured one, having a decent striker would have won today’s game and that’s why people are frustrated. 

[rooney]

Our strikers were poor last season and they are this as they are the same people. Nothing to do with Martin it is just that they lack quality.They do not have the ability to change and we have to face up to that.

 

 

 

 

 

[LGTL]

8 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Do we? I certainly don't. The PL has caused a rot in our fanbase. 

If by some miracle we went up this season, what would you consider success the year after? Somewhere between 7th and 9th? Maybe a cup final  to go with it? News flash, stuff like that just doesn't happen to clubs like us.

News flash, that’s exactly what happened to ‘a club like us’ not actually that long ago.

Edited 7 October, 2023 by LGTL

[Leighsterrr]

Should have sewn it up in the first half with those chances we had, 1 up so early on, how could it go wrong with the opportunities we had! Still not sure why Sulemana and Armstrong went off...anyone kno!

 

Not sure of the outcome of the fan near us in the stand but it didn't look good. Seemed to take a long time to get anyone to work on him. Hope he pulled through 

 

[Bad Wolf]

1 minute ago, LGTL said:

News flash, that’s exactly what happened to ‘a team like us’ not actually that long ago.

OH YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You're right!!!! I forgot about that!!!! What a silly goose I am.

Well I'm guessing that manager must have got a contract extension and been adored by fans? 

[Miltonaggro]

Scored early, if another one goes in during the first half we would have likely won comfortably due to Rotherham switching off. They were expecting a dicking today. Instead Saints opted for full Russball and thought they could eke out a 1-0 like they did at Stoke. No penetration, no urgency, no guile just tippy tappy weak nonsense. Then, as seems to be the way - one attack, one shot, one goal - naive as fuck. Rotherham are a poor side, kick and rush, but their keeper looked superb today with and without the ball, so fair play to them for taking a point at our place due to our inherent complacency. 

[Osvaldorama]

4 minutes ago, Baz Fl said:

We haven’t had a proper goal scorer for 3 seasons and it was the main reason for most of our problems and pain which finally led to relegation. So when we went into yet another transfer window to fix it we bought an injured one, having a decent striker would have won today’s game and that’s why people are frustrated. 

That, plus the worst goalkeeer we have had in decades. It means we are awful at both ends of the pitch. 
 

We haven’t fixed either,  the club is too busy wanking themselves off about how clever they are. Meanwhile we are sleep walking into mid table mediocrity and being in this league for a long long time. 

[JRM]

Fair play to Rotherham but fucking hell they are another bogey team for us, not beaten them since 1965 and you could see the players never believed the curse could be broken. 

[VectisSaint]

38 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

I might be seeing a reason for our struggles - I blame the celts.

Russell Martin - scottish

Stuart Armstrong - scottish

Che Adams - scottish

Ross Stewart - scottish

Bazunu - Irish

Smallbone - Irish

Manning - Irish

Fraser and Charles as well.

[Saint Gifford]

16 minutes ago, Cabrone said:

The board should have seen enough to make an assessment of RM by now.

Mine is that he is mid table quality at best.

I'd get rid before our season gets flushed away.

100% agree with you.
 

However I’m not sure the board understands enough about football to make the right assessment. 

[stknowle]

2 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

On any other day this is a comfortable win, just a freak result honestly. The issue isn't todays game, it's those 4 defeats in a bounce meaning that we need to be pretty much perfect every week - at least at home to get anywhere near the top 2. Teams who go up automatic don't lose 4 in a row, so it was always a tall order after that. In the bigger picture 7 out of 9 isn't terrible, but just not enough because of the strength of Leicester.

I know all that and don't disagree whatsoever. Russell Martin is still a shit manager though.

[yellow&blue]

Rotherham’s goalkeeper rolled the ball out of play so they could make a substitution, but there was no apparent injury.  
 

We then gave the ball back, and I felt that we shouldn’t have to as there was no injury and they scored directly from that.

Unnecessary…..

[Lee On Solent Saint]

6 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

On any other day this is a comfortable win, just a freak result honestly. The issue isn't todays game, it's those 4 defeats in a bounce meaning that we need to be pretty much perfect every week - at least at home to get anywhere near the top 2. Teams who go up automatic don't lose 4 in a row, so it was always a tall order after that. In the bigger picture 7 out of 9 isn't terrible, but just not enough because of the strength of Leicester.

I get results like this happen. No team has a divine right to win every game, but if you are serious about promotion, you have to absolutely beat the likes of Rotherham, especially at home. I somehow doubt that Leicester would have little difficulty in dispatching them. 

[markr27]

Very slow reactions by the stewards and subsequently medical staff to the emergency, which occurred the next row over.
Another fan began CPR before the first steward had even walked up the stand to the location, whilst multuple others were gesturing for attention.
Indeed I think the Rotherham keeper noticed before the stewards did.
Emergency services again lacked much urgency initially getting to the location, but once there worked tirelessly to help.

Seats around the incident were cleared as fans re-allocated along the neighbouring blocks, and another poor chap was taken down in tears, after being hit by the person as they fell. It didn't look good and I heard reports of people down in the concourse taking pictures of the person on the stretcher heading out, and others refusing to move aside to speed up the transfer to the ambulance.

 

 

Edited 7 October, 2023 by markr27

[SaintTex]

frustrating.. yes.. but let me be out of character and optimistic.

only 3 points off 3rd place.

1 point of 6th place.

(ducking)

 

Leicester and Ipswich separating from the rest.

 

Edited 7 October, 2023 by SaintTex

[sfc4prem]

Well, we had enough opportunities to win that. Big one for me was Armstrong's shitty little left footed shot when he could have laid it off to Che.

[saintant]

12 minutes ago, yellow&blue said:

Rotherham’s goalkeeper rolled the ball out of play so they could make a substitution, but there was no apparent injury.  
 

We then gave the ball back, and I felt that we shouldn’t have to as there was no injury and they scored directly from that.

Unnecessary…..

Is this really what happened? If so which numpty decided to give them the ball back?

[markr27]

4 minutes ago, saintant said:

Is this really what happened? If so which numpty decided to give them the ball back?

Adams.

[spyinthesky]

Like the majority of fans I am very frustrated by the result.

But at a lower level I have played in decent sides when we murdered opponents and didnt get a win.

I also played in a cup game where we struggled to get a side out against a team three divisions higher and we won due to a fantastic performance by our keeper.

Today was reminiscent of this. 

Rotherham were very poor but their keeper made at least 4 'worldy' saves and on another day, if we had scored a second, I think we would have won comfortably.

All that said the substitutes ie Aribo and Mara and to a lesser extent Fraser added absolutely nothing (again!!!) 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

There are a number of ways of interpreting that result. In the end though, it’s that it’s a single point at home for a team that should be looking for promotion against a team who are towards the foot of the table.

We had over 80% possession in the first half. Possession alone, isn’t going to win any games. So what did we do with it?

In an earlier game Martin pointed to a single chance for Adams as justification for his approach. So, he’s going to have no problems at all pointing to the 12 efforts on goal, with 5 on target in the first half.

And he would have a point. We were completely dominant, got an early lead and created a number of opportunities. When out of possession, we looked a lot more solid. When in possession, we worked the ball patiently towards creating an opportunity.

We were on top at the break. Rotherham changed formation with a sub. That stopped us having quite so much space for several minutes. But we’d started creating again before half time.

There’s always going to be a bit of me wondering if that 12 efforts could actually have been more, had we been more determined. Or if fewer, could they have offered even better chances, as we drive at them, taking us clear before half time.  

The second half should have been more of the same. We didn’t seem to have the same level of dominance, although we ended up with just as many efforts and chances as we had in the first half. We had plenty of nearly moments too, in both halves. A couple of deliveries across the box, that no one got on the end of.

The idea of multiple subs is to presumably to bring energy into the side. Quite often it just means that the teams gets a bit disjointed and loses momentum as the new arrivals settle in. That’s what happened today. Sulemana was the one causing the most problems, but off he went. I like Edozie’s development. But rather than have him keep up his minutes, he’s been missing for a few games due to our form. That really showed today. Some good things combined with lots that took us back to his most raw days.

Adam Armstrong going off lost us that high work rate, meaning that when the ball was given away (which is was more often) it was tougher for us to get it back. The switches lost us that dominance, and we have no alternative plan of action to compensate.

Rotherham were like us under Selles. Sit and sit and sit, and hope for a breakaway or a mistake. In the end, it was a punt up from their goalkeeper. Our clearance dropped kindly for them, and Bazunu was chipped from distance.

A criticism of the patient, build up approach is that it seems beyond a lot of teams to up the tempo or change approach if a goal is needed rather than be carefully being built towards. We created a lot today. But not anywhere near as much, when we actually needed to.

Martin will no doubt put this down to “scar tissue” the players all apparently have, preventing them from making the right choices at key moments. In the end, it’s the job of the coaching team to give the team tactical options to work towards when that sort of decision making is going on. If the patient, multi pass model falls apart every time they need a goal, then have them well trained enough to do something else. Even if just to get back control and drive.

When Rotherham went more direct and pushed, we looked at our most fragile. That’s something we’ve seen a lot of. If we’re allowed to play to Martin’s tactic, then it can work well. If we’re put under pressure we don’t come away with the three points. Today, it didn’t; even take pressure to give the goal away. It came from only 1 of their two efforts on target. We wobbled after it went in, unable to move away form the pace and style that gave us so much control of the first half, but simply wasn’t quick or dangerous enough when we needed a winner.

Martin will point to the control, the efforts on goal and the ones on target. He will rue an unlikely outcome from one of their very few efforts on target.

Behind that, there’s an awful lot to be done to provide a much faster, more dangerous edge to his tactics. We’re a team that continues to be easily undone. From the glaring tactical gaps in earlier defeats through self-made errors to things like today, where it was just a soft goal that we didn’t have enough to bounce back from.

[revolution saint]

Quite pleasantly surprised that the reaction isn’t too negative. Any other day we win that easily. Frustrating not too win obviously but created loads of chances and their keeper had a great game.

Thought Edozie looked very good. Che didn’t do himself any favours. Hopefully Stewart will be in the squad soon.

[saintant]

4 minutes ago, markr27 said:

Adams.

Did their keeper roll the ball out so they could bring on subs? If so Adams was stupid to give it back to them and even more so if it led to their equaliser. He needs to be told this was a mistake.

[Dragon_man]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

On any other day this is a comfortable win, just a freak result honestly. The issue isn't todays game, it's those 4 defeats in a bounce meaning that we need to be pretty much perfect every week - at least at home to get anywhere near the top 2. Teams who go up automatic don't lose 4 in a row, so it was always a tall order after that. In the bigger picture 7 out of 9 isn't terrible, but just not enough because of the strength of Leicester.

I'm not so sure, if this happened to Leicester it's a freak result. For us, it's sort of expected.

Second half was woeful and like many around me, we just knew what was coming ... and it came. And none of us were that surprised.

It's the sort of thing that happens to a mid table team.

I think today was the final confirmation that mid table is where we rightly are and will stay. Majority of players are mid table level - Manning, Adams, Fraser et al.

There's no real surprise or shock here today.

 

Edited 7 October, 2023 by Dragon_man

[spyinthesky]

With my positive hat on (a very rare situation) we should have conceded a penalty at Stoke and drawn 1-1 and then gone on to a deserved win over Rotherham providing 4 points.
The circumstances helped us at Stoke but not at home v Rotherham but the outcome was 4 points and three games unbeaten which hopefully we can continue with after the International break.

Edited 7 October, 2023 by spyinthesky

[woodsaint1]

Was always going to happen wasnt it? The talk all week on here was about returning to positive goal difference and getting another clean sheet.

Its football. If you dont convert your chances you give the opposition a chance to steal something and thats exactly what happened. 

Its on the players, nothing to do with RM. Unfortuately these are the sort of teams you need to be putting to the sword at home if you want to stand any chance of automatic

[Saint NL]

48 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Obviously that's a questionable sauce

Just like my local Chinese restaurant 

[Baird of the land]

Disappointing result. Watching it, it definitely felt like like saints needed to go for the 2nd more at 1 nil. Subs other than Alcaraz didn't have a real impact.

[ElTrinidad]

Saints were unlucky here. This was nothing down to RM, we didnt take some great chances - we created a TON

We weren't helped by their keeper pulling of a plethora of top saves to keep it at 1-0.

Che Adams' finishing is still leaving a lot to be desired even in the championship, but we honestly played well today.

[HarvSFC]

Positives: We looked a level above. Rotherham were just... there?

Negatives: Everything else.

Three games in a row, the subs coming on have killed our flow going forward. Alcaraz, Sulemana and KWP are the only three who can play on the turn, the rest get a bit predictable and really only pass the ball back to where they've received it from. Manning's so poor going forward. Adams doing a trademark Adams, missing from blank range for the first goal, fortunately, S. Armstrong was there, then Adams was just crap for the rest, as he has been ever since August finished.

Can't blame a toxic home atmosphere for this one.

[Midfield_General]

7 minutes ago, Dragon_man said:

I'm not so sure, if this happened ro Leicester it's a freak result. For us, it's sort of expected.

Second half was woeful and like many around me, we just knew what was coming ... and it came. And no of us were that surprised.

It's the sort of thing that happens to mid table team.

I think today was the final confirmation that mid table is where we rightly are and will stay. Majority of players are mid table level - Manning, Adams, Fraser et al.

There's no real surprise or shock here today.

 

I accepted that automatic promotion wasn’t happening after the four defeats on the bounce. 

So, while that’s a real anticlimax this early in the season and with the resources available to us, the realistic goal has to be to get promoted through the play-offs. 

3 points off third place at this stage suggests a play-off place is totally achievable. Over the course of the season we should have enough to finish in the top six. Who knows what happens from there. 

If we don’t, then that really does have to be considered a total failure by all concerned, and should have the appropriate consequences. 

[harvey]

31 minutes ago, Norm said:

I’m so pleased I didn’t pay to watch that, I saw 80 minutes online. Really boring possession football, tip tap tip tap. I accept their keeper had a good game but it was a drab spectacle. Did we assume we would win and play as if they were no threat? 
Rotherham, 1-1 against possibly the weakest team in the Div. 

The same, there were opportunities for the forward pass / through ball a few times that appeared easier than the sideways / back pass that actually happened.

[Greedyfly]

1 hour ago, Wsaint said:

21 goal attempts with 8 on target doesn't scream ponderous build up play and awful tactics (don't come at me whitey I'm sorry), more so our players still can't put goals away for shit, only the other week people were saying we were more direct, so I don't buy we are playing slower with each game.

Russell Martin is not a world class manager or a tactical genius by any means, but some of the outrage on here is laughable. Not you personally, but it's quite funny.

None taken ..I think.

 

Nah we're having one of those respectable debates that hasn't turned to discussing university's or whatever else is going on around us.

 

But here's the thing, the 8 on target might have been enough IF Arma starts in the position in which he excelled last week instead of shoe horning in an absolute cart horse in Che. 

 

If he starts Alcaraz who was the reason we could pass out from the back, to attack, we might convert one of the 8.

 

If he doesn't take off Suleman, if he starts Charles etc etc etc. 

 

He's making no friends when in reality he could make life easier for himself. I mean where the fuck has Edozie gone? Scored 2, nah on the bench son.

 

He's managed to get the Left Back team of the year player, looking like shit. Turned Smallbone, who was lauded at Sunderland, into a match stick, and bigged up one of the worst keepers I've ever seen. 

 

Yes there's players that should cop some of the blame but he's the Southampton version of Frank Lampard. Over complicating with under complicated players. 

 

Really, the stats are flattering us. 8 on target Vs Rotherham is the bare minimum. 

 

 

[Jimmy_D]

Between their keeper having a blinder and limiting them to basically nothing, just a shot to nothing that goes into row z at least 95% of the time undoing us, a proper freak result.

We’ll play far worse than that and win this season.

[HedgeEnder]

21 minutes ago, saintant said:

Did their keeper roll the ball out so they could bring on subs? If so Adams was stupid to give it back to them and even more so if it led to their equaliser. He needs to be told this was a mistake.

I’m pretty sure he was told by the ref to throw it back to their keeper