Crouch: Why I proposed changes

[saintjay77]

LC said “I thought mine was a good proposal – it would have enabled us to get rid of our overdraft and give ourselves a fighting chance of bringing in some experienced players and an experienced English manager"

 

So one must presume that the other two declined any of his proposals? Which makes me wonder what it is exactly that the two clowns are doing in charge of the club!

 

Wipe out an overdraft, is that about £6m? Plus the, presumably, crippling interest on it?

 

A fighting chance of bringing in some experienced players? Presumably his proposal meant they would have been able to raise an amount to do this?

 

An experienced English manager? again this might well have cost a bit.

 

So what, exactly, was the flaw in his proposal?

 

Maybe he wanted a bigger say and the two clowns wanted him to remain marginalised? That makes me think it's all about control.

 

Couple of fools, in my honest opinion, with not a care about the business in reality.

 

God help us.

 

to be fair there could be plenty of reasons why they said no.

 

obvious one that most people here will come up with are that they want control and would rather see the club fail than see crouch succeed.

 

another could be that crouchs offer means the others also need to stump up 2 mil each. in todays climate can they afford to throw that money away? If you need to go to the bank for one of your other business' asking for money its not going to look that great when you have thrown away 2 mil without reducing costs where ever possible. sounds like crouchs idea involves spending money on an experienced manger which envolved paying off the exsisting team and paying more money re-shuffling the team.

 

the good old english manager approach hasnt worked that well for us for a while so they probably think the change of direction they are trying to take will be more benificial in the long run. I have no crystal ball so cant tell you who is right but just because leon thinks he has a good idea it doesnt mean it actualy is one.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

to be fair there could be plenty of reasons why they said no.

 

obvious one that most people here will come up with are that they want control and would rather see the club fail than see crouch succeed.

 

another could be that crouchs offer means the others also need to stump up 2 mil each. in todays climate can they afford to throw that money away? If you need to go to the bank for one of your other business' asking for money its not going to look that great when you have thrown away 2 mil without reducing costs where ever possible. sounds like crouchs idea involves spending money on an experienced manger which envolved paying off the exsisting team and paying more money re-shuffling the team.

 

the good old english manager approach hasnt worked that well for us for a while so they probably think the change of direction they are trying to take will be more benificial in the long run. I have no crystal ball so cant tell you who is right but just because leon thinks he has a good idea it doesnt mean it actualy is one.

 

If the obvious thought is one that you have in mind then I can't help but agree with you. I think it's all about control.

[Window Cleaner]

If the obvious thought is one that you have in mind then I can't help but agree with you. I think it's all about control.

 

I would have thought that "He who calls the tune pays the piper" would be fitting.Crouch is obsessed with his "English Manager " idea. If he wants one then let him pay to create the conditions. Anyway "Manager Wanted,Non.English need not apply" is discriminatory. None of the top 5 sides in the Prem is managed by an "Englishman" and only one by a Briton.

[saintjay77]

just thought off another reason they may have said no,

 

crouch owns about 10% right?

Lowe about 6%?

Wilde 14%?

 

Not too bothered exactly but my point is this, if you own 1/4 of a business and the other owner owns 3/4 shouldnt extra funds given to the company be relitive to your shareholdinig?

 

I mean if your 1/4 is worth 1 mill and you inject 2 mill shouldnt the other party put in 2 mill per 1/4 they own? If then the company becomes worth 2ice as much your 1/4 is then worth 2 mill and the 3/4 is worth 6 mill. If you put in 2 mill and so does the other party and the company still becomes worth 2ice as much all the benifit goes to the other party for very little effort and outlay.

 

So on that bases Leons offer sounds as flipant and likly to go no-where as Rupes and wildes offer of crouch stumping up 6 mill for them to step aside.

 

Christ I would love to sit in a room with them and listen to what they get up too. I bet its a constant working out of what everyone actually means with 1 stupid coment after another.

[saintjay77]

I would have thought that "He who calls the tune pays the piper" would be fitting.Crouch is obsessed with his "English Manager " idea. If he wants one then let him pay to create the conditions. Anyway "Manager Wanted,Non.English need not apply" is discriminatory. None of the top 5 sides in the Prem is managed by an "Englishman" and only one by a Briton.

 

I said earlier that our track record with good ole english/british managers is by no means any good so dont see why Leon is instisting on going that way.

 

Fair point that JP didnt do the business but I liked what he was trying to achieve. I am happy for the same model to be tried with different personalities and see if it can be a success. will give wotte some time to find out if he is the business or not though.

[Frank's cousin]

just thought off another reason they may have said no,

 

crouch owns about 10% right?

Lowe about 6%?

Wilde 14%?

 

Not too bothered exactly but my point is this, if you own 1/4 of a business and the other owner owns 3/4 shouldnt extra funds given to the company be relitive to your shareholdinig?

 

I mean if your 1/4 is worth 1 mill and you inject 2 mill shouldnt the other party put in 2 mill per 1/4 they own? If then the company becomes worth 2ice as much your 1/4 is then worth 2 mill and the 3/4 is worth 6 mill. If you put in 2 mill and so does the other party and the company still becomes worth 2ice as much all the benifit goes to the other party for very little effort and outlay.

 

So on that bases Leons offer sounds as flipant and likly to go no-where as Rupes and wildes offer of crouch stumping up 6 mill for them to step aside.

 

Christ I would love to sit in a room with them and listen to what they get up too. I bet its a constant working out of what everyone actually means with 1 stupid coment after another.

 

I would like to think that when the 3 of them are together i a room they behave like professional adults.... but maybe thats expecting too much?

[hypochondriac]

I would have thought that "He who calls the tune pays the piper" would be fitting.Crouch is obsessed with his "English Manager " idea.

 

I wasn't aware that he was obsessed. Just because he lined up an English manager does not mean that was his only option.

 

If he wants one then let him pay to create the conditions. Anyway "Manager Wanted,Non.English need not apply" is discriminatory. None of the top 5 sides in the Prem is managed by an "Englishman" and only one by a Briton.

 

Whereas eleven of the top thirteen teams in the division that matters are what nationality?

[John Smith]

Hahahahahah, I almost laughed my flippin head off at this thread!

 

So Lowe continues his holidays in a luxurious ski resort at the most important time for our club. On the brink of administration, Manager resigned, players being brought in, players apparently looking to be sold to others, but no-one here to do the deal and get the money in. 2 days a week, hahahaha, and then he takes a holiday! I think Lowes the only man that invested in investment banking just as investment banks hit the wall! Did he also invest in Barings after having a chat with Nick Leeson! HAHAHAHAHA!

 

let's recap, Lowe and Wilde gallop into Dodge (sorry SMS) to stave off administration (failing), push our way up the league and aim for promotion (failed), install 'Total Football' (failed), bring in the young with a balance of senior pro's and talented youngsters and reserves (failed). Was he going to bring the fans back? If he thought that, FAILED. Was he going to stop us from being relegated? Failing!

 

Has he got £2mil to put into Saints? Even if he did, he wouldn;t, that's not an investment, that';s a risk, Lowe doesn;t do risk, he buys shares! Oh yeah, that brings me back to WH Ireland, risk or investment, you tell me!

 

So, after 10years+ how much have we paid Lowe in Salary? Dividends? Bonuses? Expenses? How much stake does he have? And remind me EXACTLY how much this cost him in CASH?

 

OK, let's now remind ourselves of what Wotte said on the back of his employment by Lowe, remembering that Wotte was brought in to work with JP and Hokaday in order to form continuity. SO where's that continuity we were told about and trumpetted from the rafters? Let's revisit Wottes statement:

 

"At FC Den Haag I was working with a very good head coach, Co Adriaanse. He put the under-18s and the first team together and picked the best players for the first team from that pool of players.

 

"You will be amazed to see that when young players get an opportunity to show themselves with the big players then their development can sometimes be very surprising.

 

"Of course you can't win every match with 11 players of 18 years old. You need some guidance in the team and need some experienced players too, but the most important thing is that we have the desire to play attacking football.

 

"I like players that want to fight for every ball and want to show the people that we have one aim and that is going back up as soon as possible."

 

With the additional input of current Under 18s coach David Hockaday and Reserve team manager Stewart Henderson, Wotte hopes that the Dutch duo's Orange revoltion will help transform Saints' fortunes both on and off the pitch.

 

He explained: "It will not be possible that we take a player on loan for three months when we have a good 17 or 18 year old player in the same position, because it might block his development. Both Mr Wilde and Mr Lowe have told us from day one that we have to look at the talents within the Club and give them time to play.

 

"This is partly because of the financial situation but I also think it's healthy because fans like to see the young players fight for every minute and every ball.

 

"Of course it's all about winning games. If you win games then everyone is happy but if you can win games with a team that can grow into the Premiership then that would be very very nice."

 

HAHAHAHAHA! How times have changed!

 

My suggestion, Lowe/Wilde sell your shares to Crouch for £1 and F*ck off! You are going to lose EVERYTHING anyway and take us down with you. Let a man who is willing to do something, do that something! And if he fails, at least he's failed with HIS money.

 

Lastly, how much investment has Lowe brought in after 10 years + sweet F A! What about Wilde? HAHAHAHAHA! And you guys think we're better off with them and put Crouch down.

 

YOU LOT NEED YOUR HEADS READ!

 

Lowe is a failure and he's failing again, and what's he doing whilst Rome burns? Skiiing! Tells you everything really.

 

You lot are well matched and deserve each other. at least you lot can meet up again this time next year at the Lowe love in! At least it'll replace SFC for you.

[saintjay77]

I would like to think that when the 3 of them are together i a room they behave like professional adults.... but maybe thats expecting too much?

 

from the way they behave in the press sometimes do you really think they behave any better?

 

Lowe is known for his snipes, Wilde only speaks when he thinks someone will agree and Crouch has been sucked right into the t1t for tat exchanges with lowe. I imagine there are a team of espionage detectives in a side room listening in on all the comments and desyphering them as fast as possible so that there shareholder gets the true meanings as quick as possible.

 

I dont think there has been 1 occasion where we have heard that any of the chairmen have actually laid all there cards on the table and asked the others if they could all find a way to move the club forward?

 

If I was a major player I would get them all together and lock the door. No-one would leave untill we could all agree on a way forward. end of

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

I wonder if when they come to write the story of Southampton Football Club's demise they conclude that Friday 23rd January 2009 was the key date - the rejection of the 'Crouch Plan' and the subsequent appointment of Wotte as Head Coach will be seen as the exact moment the club's long decline finally became irreversible .

 

I fear our last best chance has passed into history now and the club (as we know it) may well already have entered the last few months of its existence .

 

The mismanagement this grand old club has been subject to is little short of a crime , it's my considered opinion that there are several regular contributors to this forum who could do a better job of running the club - hell my old mum could hardly do much worse .

[up and away]

Originally Posted by Puddings and Monkeys

Why would Barclays ask them to step down when they have drastically improved the financial position? Even if they did, why would they want Crouch back in...someone they associate with letting costs run out of control.

Am i getting a bit confused here, but i thought it was Wilde and his Execs that spent all the money post relegation.:confused:

 

Maybe you should ask Crouch exactly what he meant by this statement?

"I opposed the mass exodus of staff at the club, we are losing too many good people. I knew it would be a real battle and it has been. I am devastated. I have spent the last 18 months battling these people."

 

Then taking into the comments of Dave Jones at the last AGM,

I stayed and supported Leon Crouch, Patrick Trant and Lee Hoos to try and resolve the situation. After not accepting the SISU bid we were in a dire financial state which we still are.

The compare that to Crouch's statement at that exact period.

We have no intention of selling our best players. There is a new board now and we will draw a line under everything that has gone before. As far as I am concerned we are going forward now with a good squad of players. We are not in a desperate situation.

and Saints chairman Leon Crouch has dismissed reports the club has approached Arsenal in a bid to secure an early cash settlement in the Theo Walcott transfer, in order to avoid administration.

 

Then with all that knowledge, you go and agree the permanent signing of Andrew Davies, soon to become one of the highest wage earners at the club?

 

Still confused? I thought so.

[Frank's cousin]

 

If I was a major player I would get them all together and lock the door. No-one would leave untill we could all agree on a way forward. end of

 

sadly it would ahveto be a VERY big space to accomodate three such egos...

[Window Cleaner]

Whereas eleven of the top thirteen teams in the division that matters are what nationality?

 

Martinez is a Spaniard, Magilton and McCarthy are Irish, McLeish is a Scot

so that's 4 non-English,Dave Jones must be Welsh I suppose,Coyle is an Irish Scot; so you see quite a lot of "non-englishmen" in there, quite a lot of non-Britons as well,the Irish Republic being what it is.

 

Ooh I forget Paulo Sousa Italian? Irvine is a Scot,

so in fact that just leaves Blackwell and Coppell in the top 10 or so;

Edited 27 January, 2009 by Window Cleaner

[hypochondriac]

Martinez is a Spaniard, Magilton and McCarthy are Irish, McLeish is a Scot

so that's 4 non-English,Dave Jones must be Welsh I suppose,Coyle is an Irish Scot; so you see quite a lot of "non-englishmen" in there, quite a lot of non-Britons as well,the Irish Republic being what it is.

FFS be pedantic then. The reason Crouch got an "English manager" lined up is because he wanted someone who understood English lower league football and who had a knowledge of the lower leagues and what the best way is to get us out of the division. He might as well just have stated British manager. It was obvious what he meant and most fans would agree with him. Seemingly most other teams in this division agree as well because the majority have appointed a manager from the British Isles. (and QPR don't count anyway because they are an exception.)

[aintforever]

Martinez is a Spaniard, Magilton and McCarthy are Irish, McLeish is a Scot

so that's 4 non-English,Dave Jones must be Welsh I suppose,Coyle is an Irish Scot; so you see quite a lot of "non-englishmen" in there, quite a lot of non-Britons as well,the Irish Republic being what it is.

 

Ooh I forget Paulo Sousa Italian? Irvine is a Scot,

so in fact that just leaves Blackwell and Coppell in the top 10 or so;

 

Who gives a ****, Crouch had an English manager lined up, that's obviously why he said English.

[St_Tel49]

Think the issue here is obvious - Crouch is fortunate enough to have his 2 mil ready to put in.... unfortunately, I would guess that both Wilde and Lowe do NOT have those kind of liquid assets to hand - If the injection of 6 mil was going to save the club and allow it to survive - prop up the shareprice etc, and save their sahre investment then I have no doubt Wilde and Lowe would do their bit IF they had the cash available -if only to SAVE their investment - but I seriously do not think they do.

 

The question then is, does Crouch know this, because if so, is it not really a hollow offer no matter how generous, because he wont do this without the others who he knows cant?

 

Duncan (FF) reckons this is a cheap shot at Crouch who is obviously a fan prpared to put his money where his mouth is - which is fair enough, but I disagree, I would ask that questions direct to Leon:

 

Leon, I appreciate that this is a genuine offer and a very generous one at that considering the high risk involved that could in effect wipe out this loan to the club, but do you believe both Wilde and Lowe actually have this amount in liquid assets or are they simply refusing to be as generous.... because of the risk. I know if I had exactly 2mil my net wortyh so to speak, would I risk it all on saints? No

 

To be straightforward here - how many of the posters on here would actually WANT Lowe and Wilde to put in more money - that surely only strengthens their position. And conversely, if L&W read the stuff posted on here, and IF they had the the readies, would they actually WANT to put it in. I know I wouldn't. I sincerely hope that Crouch can find the £6m through a consortium or whatever but his final words did not sound too optimistic on that front.

[Wopper]

Crouch sees saints as a hobby not a meal ticket. He will be at Norwich cheering the team on as usual.

[Stirchleysaint]

I say no to Crouch, Lowe and Wilde. Why pick sides when the ship sails merrily on to its iceberg regardless of who is supposedly steering.

 

Given that metaphor, which one of the three will be Kate Winslet when the boat sinks?

[Nineteen Canteen]

He is more succesful at business then Lowe and Wilde put together.

Crouch is a fan of the club and has in the past already put his hand in his pockets. Lowe and Wilde have never done that in the 12 years combined they have had at this club.

Crouch could buy out either of thems shares but what would the point in that be? That would not benefit the club just the two greedy bastards who are holding out for their last pay cheque. If he puts £2million into the club and gets a good manager (i heard he had spoke to Boothroyd) and maybe a few decent buys,loans then our fortunes on the pitch could change. If we then survived next season we can rebuild again. But the problem is Lowe and Wilde are sticking to their guns, they don't want to abandon this dutch system they have chosen. And the fact they have rejected the proposal of money makes me question if Barclays will allow them to remain in control. Crouch said he would pay off the overdraft, they would obviously love that. Lowe and Wilde will have to explain why they rejected it to them.

 

Crouch is anything but stupid. If i were in his financial position i would do the same thing. I would rather put my money into the club knowing it would help the club rather then help the board.

 

You don't believe the saying then that 'a fool and his money are easily parted'. It seems to be the view that Crouch is more wealthy than Lowe or Wilde but that doesn't mean his pockets are deep enough to sustain the club long term especially based on his apparent wish to introduce fan friendly policies. Good luck if he wants to put his money where is mouth is and I shall watch with interest and a large dose of incredulity if he can take the club any further forward in the next two years than the last time Lowe was removed from office.

 

Crouch is a fan and a rich one to boot but that doesn't make him an obvious choice to run this club as IMO he is simply not shrewd enough and at times has conducted himself somewhat childishly for a chairman of any real credibility. We need a chairman who can manage the club within its own revenue streams as sugar daddies with significant fortunes are thin on the ground. Crouch maybe a fan but what will his fortune deliver the club let alone his ability to withstand the flak when the going inevitably gets tough.

 

£2m? £6m? An individual who wants to take this club forward the easy way will need a minimum of £50m just to turn us into a yo-yo club like WBA, Birmingham or Reading and god knows how much to buy some time in the premiership as Sunderland and Portsmouth are still trying to do although the latter looks to have given up the effort.

 

If Crouch is the solution to our problems then IMO it will get a whole lot worse and we simply need to back Lowe until, with our support, he creates a club worth investing in. At the moment only a mug would buy or inject their large sums of cash before administration. To avoid this Crouch would be better off rallying his support behind the board and encouraging the fans to do likewise. All the Lowe hatred and no one has a master plan that doesn't already look holed before a lot of you jump in towards your promised land, in essence nothing more than a stay of execution. Unless Crouch can hire a shrewd and strong CEO with complete automony over the company then regardess of Crouch's cash we would be screwed as he was a disaster in even his previous and thankfully short tenure.

 

People have said that Lowe makes them sick well if you are looking for an antidote please don't try reading Leon's programme notes from last season. It will have you questioning his business acumen like his current alledged stance of saying I'll put in £2m if Wilde and Lowe can match it. This is crude schoolboy boasting/bullying at best, along the lines of my house is better than yours and hardly a way to conduct professional negotiations, especially when Crouch doesn't have enough to get us to the end of next season. Achieves nothing as no doubt time will tell and if Leon wants revenge then he'd better wait before the dish gets a little cooler as at the moment IMO he looks ridiculous.

[saintjay77]

FFS be pedantic then. The reason Crouch got an "English manager" lined up is because he wanted someone who understood English lower league football and who had a knowledge of the lower leagues and what the best way is to get us out of the division. He might as well just have stated British manager. It was obvious what he meant and most fans would agree with him. Seemingly most other teams in this division agree as well because the majority have appointed a manager from the British Isles. (and QPR don't count anyway because they are an exception.)

 

But to be fair there is nothing proving that by having a Britsh manager that knows english leagues success will be garenteed.

 

Swansea have done very well with Roberto Martinez and we did utter hash with Harry Redcrap.

 

I wonder how much Roberto knew about the lower leagues compared to how much Harry knows about the game?

 

I think the system the club is trying to use has some legs about it but the staff still needs tweaking. Wotte maybe the answer but he may not. The English way has had many years of effort without much success so the Dutch way deserves more than half a season IMO.

[aintforever]

regardess of Crouch's cash we would be screwed as he was a disaster in even his previous and thankfully short tenure.

 

Was that when he saved us money by loaning out Rasiak and Skacel, found a good manager and kept us up after Wilde's execs had ****ed over the club?

[hypochondriac]

You don't believe the saying then that 'a fool and his money are easily parted'. It seems to be the view that Crouch is more wealthy than Lowe or Wilde but that doesn't mean his pockets are deep enough to sustain the club long term especially based on his apparent wish to introduce fan friendly policies.

 

 

But infinitely better than ptting in nothing which is Lowe and Wilde's plan.

 

Good luck if he wants to put his money where is mouth is and I shall watch with interest and a large dose of incredulity if he can take the club any further forward in the next two years than the last time Lowe was removed from office.

 

 

Lowe ha the security and financial luxury that the premiership offers. It is because of Lowe that Crouch does not have that.

 

Crouch is a fan and a rich one to boot but that doesn't make him an obvious choice to run this club

 

Agreed but as I said he is the lesser of two evils.

 

as IMO he is simply not shrewd enough and at times has conducted himself somewhat childishly for a chairman of any real credibility. We need a chairman who can manage the club within its own revenue streams as sugar daddies with significant fortunes are thin on the ground. Crouch maybe a fan but what will his fortune deliver the club let alone his ability to withstand the flak when the going inevitably gets tough.

 

See above.

 

£2m? £6m? An individual who wants to take this club forward the easy way will need a minimum of £50m just to turn us into a yo-yo club like WBA, Birmingham or Reading and god knows how much to buy some time in the premiership as Sunderland and Portsmouth are still trying to do although the latter looks to have given up the effort.

 

6 million would pay off the overdraft and ease the financial constraints somewhat. Besides, any extra money into Southampton should be welcomed.

 

If Crouch is the solution to our problems then IMO it will get a whole lot worse

 

Why?

 

and we simply need to back Lowe until, with our support, he creates a club worth investing in.

 

That will never ever ever happen

 

At the moment only a mug would buy or inject their large sums of cash before administration.

 

Agreed. Its one of the reasons that finance should be welcomed and not shunned

 

 

To avoid this Crouch would be better off rallying his support behind the board and encouraging the fans to do likewise.

 

How is that in any way better than proposing actual finance to help the club out!

 

All the Lowe hatred and no one has a master plan that doesn't already look holed before a lot of you jump in towards your promised land, in essence nothing more than a stay of execution.

 

You have no idea about that. Lowe has been a proven failiure on three occasions now.

 

Unless Crouch can hire a shrewd and strong CEO with complete automony over the company then regardess of Crouch's cash we would be screwed as he was a disaster in even his previous and thankfully short tenure.

 

 

Utter rubbish. In fact, the consensus is that his major mistake was Dodd and Gorman, something which he had the good sense to rectify.

 

People have said that Lowe makes them sick well if you are looking for an antidote please don't try reading Leon's programme notes from last season. It will have you questioning his business acumen like his current alledged stance of saying I'll put in £2m if Wilde and Lowe can match it. This is crude schoolboy boasting/bullying at best,

 

 

Something which Lowe has never been guilty of?

 

along the lines of my house is better than yours and hardly a way to conduct professional negotiations, especially when Crouch doesn't have enough to get us to the end of next season.

 

 

You have no idea. You do realise that Leon had an agreement with the bank? You do realise he was preparing cost cutting measures of his own?

 

Achieves nothing as no doubt time will tell and if Leon wants revenge then he'd better wait before the dish gets a little cooler as at the moment IMO he looks ridiculous.

 

It's noting to do with revenge and everything to do with being a fan who wants to help out the club, saomething that you and Lowe would never understand.

[CanadaSaint]

Unless the interest rate on the overdraft is really penal or Barclays is applying heavy pressure, I don't understand why it's such a priority to pay it off. After all, we're certainly not the only club with an overdraft, and it's supposedly heading in the right direction.

 

Surely the emphasis should be on acquiring affordable players to help us move away from the relegation zone - or bringing back onto the payroll some of the loanees who could help us.

 

If they, like most of us, feel that relegation = administration, Barclays would buy into that. They wouldn't really have much choice.

 

Crouch's proposal seems to me to be more about control and fan perception than finances - starting with the manager's/head coach's position. He's too smart a man to think that he could say "Let's all sling in another 2 million" and Wilde & Lowe would respond with "Oh yes, let's". Especially when one of the first victims would be Lowe's Dutch experiment, on which he's hung much of his fast-dwindling/already screwed reputation.

 

I have precious little time for Lowe and Wilde but I'm not sure Crouch suggested anything remotely palatable to them.

[exit2]

The problem with this siutaion is that it is a "back at yer" from Lowe. I know as do most of us that Leon would part with his money, but Lowe syaing no you stump up the whole £6m is a stupid divious comment. Why the hell should LC put in £6m pound to get the club out of the ****, while Lowe/ Wilde move to the side still holding their share holding / proxies. The cash injection would steady the club money wise, making the share price go up a bit therefore making their "investment" worth more and the also in the postion to get straight back on the board if they wanted too.

 

This episode has shown a lot fans what a man he is. Fans at work were still on the fence are longer and seeing Lowe in good books

[hypochondriac]

Unless the interest rate on the overdraft is really penal or Barclays is applying heavy pressure, I don't understand why it's such a priority to pay it off. After all, we're certainly not the only club with an overdraft, and it's supposedly heading in the right direction.

 

Surely the emphasis should be on acquiring affordable players to help us move away from the relegation zone - or bringing back onto the payroll some of the loanees who could help us.

 

If they, like most of us, feel that relegation = administration, Barclays would buy into that. They wouldn't really have much choice.

 

Crouch's proposal seems to me to be more about control and fan perception than finances - starting with the manager's/head coach's position. He's too smart a man to think that he could say "Let's all sling in another 2 million" and Wilde & Lowe would respond with "Oh yes, let's". Especially when one of the first victims would be Lowe's Dutch experiment, on which he's hung much of his fast-dwindling/already screwed reputation.

 

I have precious little time for Lowe and Wilde but I'm not sure Crouch suggested anything remotely palatable to them.

 

Perhaps it is the issue that Barclays have. People have said that they are effectively controlling everything. If the overdraft were paid off, perhaps the club could operate more effectively.

[70's Mike]

thing is owners of busineeses all over the country are putting their own money into their businesses at the moment to keep them a float, either by cash or guaranteeing overdraft facilities by securing their homes agains the debt.

Why should SLH BE DIFFERENT it is basically a private company controlled and owned by 10 people

[hypochondriac]

The problem with this siutaion is that it is a "back at yer" from Lowe. I know as do most of us that Leon would part with his money, but Lowe syaing no you stump up the whole £6m is a stupid divious comment. Why the hell should LC put in £6m pound to get the club out of the ****, while Lowe/ Wilde move to the side still holding their share holding / proxies. The cash injection would steady the club money wise, making the share price go up a bit therefore making their "investment" worth more and the also in the postion to get straight back on the board if they wanted too.

 

This episode has shown a lot fans what a man he is. Fans at work were still on the fence are longer and seeing Lowe in good books

 

Good post. I was not actually dead against Lowe until recently. His recent actions including the AGM means that he simply has to leave before this club can be in any way united again.

[CanadaSaint]

Perhaps it is the issue that Barclays have. People have said that they are effectively controlling everything. If the overdraft were paid off, perhaps the club could operate more effectively.

 

But what can they do, Hypo? In many ways, they have the club by the nuts and the club has them by the nuts.

 

In the current time they, like the rest of the banks, can't take too hard a line with problem files or they're going to have administrations coming out of their ying-yangs. Surely Barclays can only win if Saints avoid administration, which - for starters - means staying up this year.

[hypochondriac]

But what can they do, Hypo? In many ways, they have the club by the nuts and the club has them by the nuts.

 

In the current time they, like the rest of the banks, can't take too hard a line with problem files or they're going to have administrations coming out of their ying-yangs. Surely Barclays can only win if Saints avoid administration, which - for starters - means staying up this year.

 

They can handle all incoming and outgoing trasfers, force saints to sell off players for less than they are worth and a lot more thing besides. Paying off the overdraft will make a significant difference IMO. It will allow us to run the club more effectively without shackles.

[John B]

It's noting to do with revenge and everything to do with being a fan who wants to help out the club, saomething that you and Lowe would never understand.

 

 

Yes I agree that Crouch is acting as a fan but not as CEO.

 

The poster was only pointing out that with Crouch in charge the Premiership is still a long way off and if he spends recklessly as a fan the club will still be in financial meltdown

[CanadaSaint]

They can handle all incoming and outgoing trasfers, force saints to sell off players for less than they are worth and a lot more thing besides. Paying off the overdraft will make a significant difference IMO. It will allow us to run the club more effectively without shackles.

 

I don't disagree, Hypo. They could do those things, but would they do them? My question is what's the point of using the money to pay off the overdraft if the very act of doing that takes away the money we could use for survival? That wouldn't be running the club more effectively - it would be painting ourselves into an even darker corner.

 

I'm just thinking aloud, like pretty much everyone else on this forum.

[hypochondriac]

Yes I agree that Crouch is acting as a fan but not as CEO.

 

The poster was only pointing out that with Crouch in charge the Premiership is still a long way off and if he spends recklessly as a fan the club will still be in financial meltdown

 

And I knew someone would make that comment! What evidence is there that Crouch let his support cloud his managerial judgement whilst in charge? Why just because someone is a fan means that they will automatically see things as a fan and will be incapable of making sensible judgements? He opposed the signing of Ewell and he is a successful millionaire.

[hypochondriac]

I don't disagree, Hypo. They could do those things, but would they do them? My question is what's the point of using the money to pay off the overdraft if the very act of doing that takes away the money we could use for survival? That wouldn't be running the club more effectively - it would be painting ourselves into an even darker corner.

 

I'm just thinking aloud, like pretty much everyone else on this forum.

 

If Crouch pays off the overdraft then some of the money which would have been spent paying it off could then be spent on players/ a new manager etc. Seems quite simple to me.

[stevegrant]

And I knew someone would make that comment! What evidence is there that Crouch let his support cloud his managerial judgement whilst in charge?

He wasn't "in charge", but on the board, but it's still relevant IMO - he strongly opposed the sale of Gareth Bale to Spurs despite the player making it clear he wanted to go and despite the knowledge that we needed the money.

[Mr X]

Just when you think you've heard it all you have 'mathhew le god' suggesting crouch is a racist http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=8937 for requesting an english manager!

[John B]

And I knew someone would make that comment! What evidence is there that Crouch let his support cloud his managerial judgement whilst in charge? Why just because someone is a fan means that they will automatically see things as a fan and will be incapable of making sensible judgements? He opposed the signing of Ewell and he is a successful millionaire.

 

I would have been against signing Euell but he did sign Davies for something like £1m at £10000 per week when we should have been cutting back.

 

 

He was a good player but really we could not afford him.

 

I dont see why he should not be the Football Club Chairman but not Chairman of the Holding Company

[John B]

Just when you think you've heard it all you have 'mathhew le god' suggesting crouch is a racist http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=8937 for requesting an english manager!

 

Well it is a bit Strange Strachan and Burley would not have had an interview then.

 

As I said in the other thread I think Crouch may have meant a manager playing 4 4 2

[saintwarwick]

Was that when he saved us money by loaning out Rasiak and Skacel, found a good manager and kept us up after Wilde's execs had ****ed over the club?

 

 

But we wasn't in a relegation scrap with Wilde's execs.

[Wopper]

All Leon has to do is bide his time. He has offered his help and been turned down.

[David Strover]

£2m? £6m? An individual who wants to take this club forward the easy way will need a minimum of £50m just to turn us into a yo-yo club like WBA, Birmingham or Reading and god knows how much to buy some time in the premiership as Sunderland and Portsmouth are still trying to do although the latter looks to have given up the effort.

 

Most of the FANS on this forum are more worried about sinking into League Division Three and from there into League Division Four not going up to the Premiership! The 'king Premiership is a lifetime away, we're not even good enough to be a mid-table League Division Two side at the moment for feck's sake!

 

Goodness me how you do spin your web.

[hypochondriac]

I would have been against signing Euell but he did sign Davies for something like £1m at £10000 per week when we should have been cutting back.

 

 

He was a good player but really we could not afford him.

 

I dont see why he should not be the Football Club Chairman but not Chairman of the Holding Company

 

Who when then sold on for a profit! Davies was not an error IMO but I suppose that bit is just opinion. It doesn't matter anyway because we can both agree that he is a better choice than Lowe and Wilde can't we? That is the salient point.

[Mr X]

Well it is a bit Strange Strachan and Burley would not have had an interview then.

 

As I said in the other thread I think Crouch may have meant a manager playing 4 4 2

 

He meant he was requesting the english manager he already had in mind. Also if crouch is 'racist' why does his company LPE employ all sorts of nationalities from polish to russian and german

[Saint Fan CaM]

And if that's true (which, personally, I don't believe, otherwise why would they have each attended numerous games when they WEREN'T in the boardroom, in the same way that Leon Crouch is doing currently), so what? The end target is still exactly the same, i.e. an improvement in the financial situation at SFC, regardless of whether their investment is all they care about.

 

I would suggest that Crouch also cares quite a lot about his investment as well. £2m and he's not even got a guaranteed seat in the boardroom for that, and given that he's told the Echo that he doesn't have the £6m Lowe and Wilde have suggested he inject and then take their places, £2m is clearly still a lot of money to him.

 

Now I do not know this for sure, but what if Lowe and Wilde were drawing a salary for their position and 'services' to the PLC? It would not surprise me in the slightest, even if viewed from a neutral perspective.

 

If they could maintain their power base all the while drawing a salary, eventually they will effectively recoup their investment in share value. They can do this whatever league we're in and they even do this at a distance and with little personal time spent in attendance at the club - you know, like going away on holiday, propping up Jersey business etc. etc.

 

Lastly, why on earth would Crouch (or anyone else for that matter) invest any money in SFC when it would not result in the departure of Lowe and Wilde themselves? For Lowe and Wilde to suggest such a thing demonstrates their clear devotion to their wallets rather than the saving of SFC IMO.

[Saint Fan CaM]

And I knew someone would make that comment! What evidence is there that Crouch let his support cloud his managerial judgement whilst in charge? Why just because someone is a fan means that they will automatically see things as a fan and will be incapable of making sensible judgements? He opposed the signing of Ewell and he is a successful millionaire.

 

Absolutely spot on the money. And I can independently vouch for the fact that Leon has made his money through wise investment in his companies infrastructure. And the manner in which he has directed this has been primarily to satisfy his customers expectations and then some. For an engineering company, the operation can be considered top class and there is a low turnover of staff. You don't get that if you're a poor businessman. Pity he didn't get the chance to deploy some of that skill over a decent period of time at SMS.

[saint lard]

Crouch on solent now

[sidthesquid]

Crouch is doubtless a shrewd businessman. That is why he comes out with provocative offers like this one. If he really thought Lowe and Wilde were willing and/or able to stump up £2 mill each this offer would have remained private. It is clear that neither have access to such funds at the moment so why not ratchet it all up a bit by making hollow gestures. And they respond by saying 'it's yours for £6 mill,' because they know he hasn't got that either. It's all boardroom politics from a bunch of rich t*ss*rs who are all more interested in their own egos than the plight of the club

[saint lard]

Crouch "chance for others to put money where their mouth is"

"Time for Rupert Lowe to put something back"

"After all he takes money,through dividends,from SFC"

"Deal would wipe out overdraught,appoint CCC manager,and get some experienced players in"

 

Loads more but couldnt keep up,while trying to listen.

Full interview online tomorrow apparently.

He was extremely scathing towards both lowe and especially Wilde at times.

"shouldve stayed with Pearson in charge"

"Wilde promised so much but has delivered nothing"

"we would be in a much better position if he was still at the helm"

[Channon's Sideburns]

I like Leon's style..getting his hits in on Lowe and Wilde when they are elsewhere.

 

Lowe skiiing with his butler, and Wilde, well who knows, perhaps he's still hiding in the loos at SMS...trying to find out if Leon's left yet.

 

Lowe will respond at some point, probably with 'Well we did not accept Leon's proposals and of course we did offer to step aside'..Wilde will be in the shadows trying to avoid everyone....

[up and away]

Originally Posted by John B

I would have been against signing Euell but he did sign Davies for something like £1m at £10000 per week when we should have been cutting back.

 

 

He was a good player but really we could not afford him.

 

I dont see why he should not be the Football Club Chairman but not Chairman of the Holding Company

Who when then sold on for a profit! Davies was not an error IMO but I suppose that bit is just opinion. It doesn't matter anyway because we can both agree that he is a better choice than Lowe and Wilde can't we? That is the salient point.

 

And we could still have Davies on our books now, how many minutes has he played for Stoke? We had to take their managers son as part of the deal, but beggars cannot be choosers and it was still a deal we were glad of. And that's without all the loans on even higher salaries.

[Wopper]

I like Leon's style..getting his hits in on Lowe and Wilde when they are elsewhere.

 

Lowe skiiing with his butler, and Wilde, well who knows, perhaps he's still hiding in the loos at SMS...trying to find out if Leon's left yet.

 

Lowe will respond at some point, probably with 'Well we did not accept Leon's proposals and of course we did offer to step aside'..Wilde will be in the shadows trying to avoid everyone....

Some fans prefer to be run by a couple of spivs.