Stoke 0-1 Saints - Match Thread

[gammon cheeks]

2 hours ago, Mr Nimbus said:

Good result. Both CB's impressed me as did Downes.

Sort of game you forget instantly and look back on at the end of the season as one of those gritty away day's that were a crucial part of a promotion season (hopefully)

That "finish" from Mara though, absolutely dreadful. Is there a player that can consistently contribute for us?

Mara is dreadful to be honest ...just hope Ross Stewart is available soon 

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, BARCELONASAINT said:

The team are starting to click and Martin is at last playing his strongest side.

The bonus is that I'm not sure he is playing his strongest side just yet, but I think he's playing the best XI with what is at his disposal.  Shea will soon cement his position as a holding midfielder, he looks a class act.  Ross Stewart will (hopefully) be the 9 we don't currently have.  

[kitch]

2 hours ago, JRM said:

It had been simmering, classic Stoke leaving late challenges, we put the ball out for one of their injured players and they didn't pass it back

 

 

What actually kicked that off, then? Alcaraz getting involved cos Burger started on Holgate? 

[SNSUN]

3 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

If we wrote off every player after one missed opportunity we'd never be able to field a team. 

Mara looked good when he came on, had good control and turned the opposition around a bit. Poor finish from someone over eager to get his first goal of the season but I would rather we use him than Adams at this point.

Mara is a strange one. I don't rate him right now but I see something in him long term. He played a great backheel pass shortly after he came on and I think with more game time he'd have sunk that shot. He seems like a confidence player that is lacking confidence right now. I know our fans are largely split on him but I do think, long term, he will do ok, even if it's not with us. He's only 21 and is only our 4th choice striker if you count Ross. If anything he was a strange choice over Che as sub but maybe Russ sees something in him that he doesn't in Che. Hopefully when we get a fit Ross in all this will be moot anyway.

[OldNick]

Stu really should have scored with his header, if he had I think it could have been 4. That left us hanging on a bit against the aerial barrage. In the main I was pleased how the defence coped.

I have read on here that Manning is poor etc but to me, I can see why he was snapped up and a decent player. Aribo is calm and will improve as he gets more game time.

Pleased to get the win, just a shame it had to be so edgy at the end. A new bit of housery that I liked and how we managed the injury time.

The commentator got on my nerves keep going on about no pen given, I dont think either was blatant.

That shot that went across the goal just before half time looked as though it was going in and my heart skipped a beat !!!

[AlexLaw76]

14 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Stu really should have scored with his header, if he had I think it could have been 4. That left us hanging on a bit against the aerial barrage. In the main I was pleased how the defence coped.

I have read on here that Manning is poor etc but to me, I can see why he was snapped up and a decent player. Aribo is calm and will improve as he gets more game time.

Pleased to get the win, just a shame it had to be so edgy at the end. A new bit of housery that I liked and how we managed the injury time.

The commentator got on my nerves keep going on about no pen given, I dont think either was blatant.

That shot that went across the goal just before half time looked as though it was going in and my heart skipped a beat !!!

The Bednarek challenge was a penalty all day long

[Whitey Grandad]

11 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

The Bednarek challenge was a penalty all day long

Nowhere near it, and the referee agreed. 

[skintsaint]

4 hours ago, JRM said:

It had been simmering, classic Stoke leaving late challenges, we put the ball out for one of their injured players and they didn't pass it back

 

 

That keeper is an embarrassment, why fall on the ground like that there 😅

[AlexLaw76]

23 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Nowhere near it, and the referee agreed. 

LOL. he rugby tackled him.

 

[Crab Lungs]

Well done on the support. Lovely to beat that side, what a horrid lot. I roll back some of my criticisms of Martin, much prefer a win and bit more pragmatism than pretty, ineffective football and gaping holes.

lived a life that by the motto tighter is normally better.  👍🏼

[benjii]

22 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

LOL. he rugby tackled him.

 

No more than goes on at virtually every corner. Couldn't have complained if it was given but it's not some great injustice that it wasn't.

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

7 hours ago, CamSaint said:

Really? We created some excellent chances in the second half. Stuey's header just after the break. Sulemana's run & shot that the keeper made a good save from, Mara blazing wide when through on goal.... I think we actually created some better scoring opportunities last night than against Leeds - the finishing was just better against Leeds. In that game, Armstrong's first was a super finish from a very acute angle. His second was actually parried away by the keeper initially and wouldn't have gone in if it hadn't hit the defender and Smallbone's was another lovely finish from the edge of the area. Last night the finishing wasn't as clinical. Despite the naysayers on here, we actually broke at pace a number of times last night. Certainly not flowing football, but effective and the defending & commitment to the common cause was a million times better than in some of the previous matches.

After the first four games, I mentioned that our position in the League was because of some late goals and actually we were playing pretty crap football. The ensuing nosedive down the table when we played some 'better' teams was all too predictable. After last night's game, I feel much more comfortable. There's a wealth of talent at the club. Martin, possibly more by luck than judgement, has found a defence and midfield that's working.  Still think there's room for Charles to start as a defensive midfielder but we're looking good.

We were in total charge from mid way in the first half until the second half when Martin took off Sulemana and Alcaraz. Up to then, we looked like scoring again. Not convinced Martin has got his substitutions right. Sitting back, we invited trouble. I'd like to see Edozie and SAA on the pitch some time. 

[austsaint]

8 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

I do think Smallbone flatters to deceive and is someone we could definitely improve on. 

Probably a minority view, but I’m a Smallbone sceptic too.  Wasn’t bad last night, and took his goal well on Saturday, but I prefer an Alcaraz type as an attacking midfielder and Charles as a better proposition in a defensive/central midfield role.    Think we have a gem in Charles and I see him ahead of Smallbone in the pecking order in the near future.  Even if WS is a RM favourite at the moment.

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

LOL. he rugby tackled him.

 

No he didn’t. You have been fooled by the attacker throwing himself to the ground as soon as he felt an arm touch him. There are multiple signs there if you know what you’re looking at.

[Chez]

13 hours ago, Give it to Ron said:

You don’t think Leeds are a decent side?

not especially.

[AlexLaw76]

2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

No he didn’t. You have been fooled by the attacker throwing himself to the ground as soon as he felt an arm touch him. There are multiple signs there if you know what you’re looking at.

He had his arms around his waist whilst falling into him = foul

[The Kraken]

2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

No he didn’t. You have been fooled by the attacker throwing himself to the ground as soon as he felt an arm touch him. There are multiple signs there if you know what you’re looking at.

I know you think video replays don’t count, the ref always has the best view, he made the right call etc etc and all that other waffle, but I’m surprised even someone as blinkered as you can’t see that this was a defensive error by Bednarek and a ckear penalty. He literally wrapped both arms around a striker who was running past him. I know you’ll disagree but I think that only goes to further show that you really don’t know what you’re talking about when it comes to matters like this.

 

 

[Chez]

3 hours ago, austsaint said:

Probably a minority view, but I’m a Smallbone sceptic too.  Wasn’t bad last night, and took his goal well on Saturday, but I prefer an Alcaraz type as an attacking midfielder and Charles as a better proposition in a defensive/central midfield role.    Think we have a gem in Charles and I see him ahead of Smallbone in the pecking order in the near future.  Even if WS is a RM favourite at the moment.

I'm a sceptic. His performance at Boro was absolutely pathetic. He bottled tackles FFS, just dangling a leg at things. That's unacceptable for a central midfielder. The flip side is that he is a tidy footballer, with a decent first touch and good passing. Every pass last night was crisp and accurate.

I worry that he is too passive. He needs to dictate and dominate. Physicality isn't everything I suppose. His passing if important too.

[Osvaldorama]

8 hours ago, gammon cheeks said:

Mara is dreadful to be honest ...just hope Ross Stewart is available soon 

Agree.  Looks like a fish out of water even at this level. 
 

Which begs the question.. what is his level? Does he have any potential at all? 

[SNSUN]

1 hour ago, Chez said:

I'm a sceptic. His performance at Boro was absolutely pathetic. He bottled tackles FFS, just dangling a leg at things. That's unacceptable for a central midfielder. The flip side is that he is a tidy footballer, with a decent first touch and good passing. Every pass last night was crisp and accurate.

I worry that he is too passive. He needs to dictate and dominate. Physicality isn't everything I suppose. His passing if important too.

He’s a recycler, his passing is good and he enables us to hold on to the ball. That is useful in games where we should be possession based against ‘lesser’ teams, it isn’t such a good trait in games where we need more grit or simply more than that against better teams. Charles offers more defensively, Charly more in attack. I actually like Will at times, I think as the game got stretched later on last night that he made himself available wider on the pitch. Still, he lacks certain things that at 23 means he’ll probably never be Premier League quality. Still he’s a decent option this season as a squad player - my issue is Martin seems to think he’s undroppable right now. He’s not doing enough to earn that really.

1 hour ago, The Kraken said:

I know you think video replays don’t count, the ref always has the best view, he made the right call etc etc and all that other waffle, but I’m surprised even someone as blinkered as you can’t see that this was a defensive error by Bednarek and a ckear penalty. He literally wrapped both arms around a striker who was running past him. I know you’ll disagree but I think that only goes to further show that you really don’t know what you’re talking about when it comes to matters like this.

 

 

My initial reaction was penalty. If there was VAR I think the ref’s decision would have been overturned and it would have been given. But it wasn’t and we won. It’s the luck of the green we haven’t had recently. Thankfully it’s Stoke and not us moaning about that ref.

[gecko]

12 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

No he didn’t. You have been fooled by the attacker throwing himself to the ground as soon as he felt an arm touch him. There are multiple signs there if you know what you’re looking at.

This has to be a wind-up.

I could possibly see an argument for it being a "coming together" - stoke lad runs across Bedders' path, both seemingly with an eye for the ball. But the arms around his waist seem to me like it's Bedders trying to make it look that way whilst also taking the man out.

If that happened to one of our strikers we'd definitely be calling that a penalty.

Anyway, these bad calls tend to even themselves out over the season, so I'm sure we'll pay for it in a later match.

[Pamplemousse]

12 minutes ago, gecko said:

This has to be a wind-up.

I could possibly see an argument for it being a "coming together" - stoke lad runs across Bedders' path, both seemingly with an eye for the ball. But the arms around his waist seem to me like it's Bedders trying to make it look that way whilst also taking the man out.

If that happened to one of our strikers we'd definitely be calling that a penalty.

Anyway, these bad calls tend to even themselves out over the season, so I'm sure we'll pay for it in a later match.

We've already had our fair share of luck with refereeing decisions - the Kyle Walker-Peters penalty against Norwich decision as well which was very soft.

The only bad decision I can think of was the Sulemana red card but we were already 4-1 down

[Whitey Grandad]

10 hours ago, The Kraken said:

I know you think video replays don’t count, the ref always has the best view, he made the right call etc etc and all that other waffle, but I’m surprised even someone as blinkered as you can’t see that this was a defensive error by Bednarek and a ckear penalty. He literally wrapped both arms around a striker who was running past him. I know you’ll disagree but I think that only goes to further show that you really don’t know what you’re talking about when it comes to matters like this.

 

 

Please don’t try to insult me. 
 

Benarek’s left arm is not in use. His right hand is open palmed and flat across the player’s chest. Whether that was enough to count as ‘holding’ I wouldn’t agree. Is that player held back by Bednarek? Clearly not. As soon as the player feels the contact he stops running and trails both legs behind himself thus initiating his fall.

This is a common ploy by professionals who use it all the time to try to engineer a penalty. Some of them are very good at it which is not surprising when they practise it all week.

I watched the replays of the incident again and they all confirm my view. The referee at the game felt the same way too, but there again he sees this sort of gamesmanship all the time.

[Whitey Grandad]

23 minutes ago, gecko said:

This has to be a wind-up.

I could possibly see an argument for it being a "coming together" - stoke lad runs across Bedders' path, both seemingly with an eye for the ball. But the arms around his waist seem to me like it's Bedders trying to make it look that way whilst also taking the man out.

If that happened to one of our strikers we'd definitely be calling that a penalty.

Anyway, these bad calls tend to even themselves out over the season, so I'm sure we'll pay for it in a later match.

Not a wind up at all. These ‘professionals’ cheat all the time at throwing themselves to the ground.

Stoke lad runs across Bedders and slows down to create a collision. Players cheat.

It’s only one arm, not two, and it is not holding the player. Not a sensible thing to do, mind you, and probably unnecessary.

If you think it’s a penalty then you have been conned.

[AlexLaw76]

8 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Not a wind up at all. These ‘professionals’ cheat all the time at throwing themselves to the ground.

Stoke lad runs across Bedders and slows down to create a collision. Players cheat.

It’s only one arm, not two, and it is not holding the player. Not a sensible thing to do, mind you, and probably unnecessary.

If you think it’s a penalty then you have been conned.

LOL

[AlexLaw76]

13 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Please don’t try to insult me. 
 

Benarek’s left arm is not in use. His right hand is open palmed and flat across the player’s chest. Whether that was enough to count as ‘holding’ I wouldn’t agree. Is that player held back by Bednarek? Clearly not. As soon as the player feels the contact he stops running and trails both legs behind himself thus initiating his fall.

This is a common ploy by professionals who use it all the time to try to engineer a penalty. Some of them are very good at it which is not surprising when they practise it all week.

I watched the replays of the incident again and they all confirm my view. The referee at the game felt the same way too, but there again he sees this sort of gamesmanship all the time.

As we know, referees make mistakes....and in our games.

It was a penalty and it is very odd that you insist it was not

[Tamesaint]

22 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said:

We've already had our fair share of luck with refereeing decisions - the Kyle Walker-Peters penalty against Norwich decision as well which was very soft.

The only bad decision I can think of was the Sulemana red card but we were already 4-1 down

Manning was cleaned out in the penalty box ar Sunderland. The score at the time was 2 0 and we were putting Sunderland under a lot of pressure at the time.

[benjii]

11 hours ago, The Kraken said:

I know you think video replays don’t count, the ref always has the best view, he made the right call etc etc and all that other waffle, but I’m surprised even someone as blinkered as you can’t see that this was a defensive error by Bednarek and a ckear penalty. He literally wrapped both arms around a striker who was running past him. I know you’ll disagree but I think that only goes to further show that you really don’t know what you’re talking about when it comes to matters like this.

 

 

Clearly offside though.

[Miltonaggro]

16 hours ago, skintsaint said:

That keeper is an embarrassment, why fall on the ground like that there 😅

Travers, think he slips there, came through with the Republic of Ireland with GB so they are likely mates.  Remarkable difference in physical size with Travers (6ft 3ins) towering above Bazunu but only an inch taller according to Wikipedia.  I reckon Gav is actually about 5ft 11ins, very diminutive for a top level goalie these days. 

[Wurzel]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Please don’t try to insult me. 
 

Benarek’s left arm is not in use. His right hand is open palmed and flat across the player’s chest. Whether that was enough to count as ‘holding’ I wouldn’t agree. Is that player held back by Bednarek? Clearly not. As soon as the player feels the contact he stops running and trails both legs behind himself thus initiating his fall.

This is a common ploy by professionals who use it all the time to try to engineer a penalty. Some of them are very good at it which is not surprising when they practise it all week.

I watched the replays of the incident again and they all confirm my view. The referee at the game felt the same way too, but there again he sees this sort of gamesmanship all the time.

9 times out of 10 I agree with your interpretations of applications of the rules but you're seeing that one wrong. The second picture makes it clearer, the white patch on JB's sleeve gives away which arm is which, his left arm goes under the Stoke guys armpit and is across his stomach. The left arm you see hanging verically in fron of the grey shirt is the Stoke guy's arm, unless JB isd triple jointed. It's difinitely a two armed hug.

Whether it was iniated by the forwarddeliberately slowing his run so JB hads no option but to collide with him and was holding on to try and  prevent a fall is another matter that can't be seen in stills.

 

[Saint_clark]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

As we know, referees make mistakes....and in our games.

It was a penalty and it is very odd that you insist it was not

I agree, if the arms hadn't been round him then it wouldn't be as it's clearly a coming together but the fact his arms go round him makes it look like deliberate contact. 

[Patrick Bateman]

On 04/10/2023 at 12:33, JRM said:

It had been simmering, classic Stoke leaving late challenges, we put the ball out for one of their injured players and they didn't pass it back

 

 

Check out about 23 seconds in, Aribo giving Wesley some evils and a talking to (on the left) haha

[notnowcato]

3 hours ago, benjii said:

Clearly offside though.

Clearly not getting anywhere near the deflected cross either. 

[JRM]

1 hour ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Check out about 23 seconds in, Aribo giving Wesley some evils and a talking to (on the left) haha

Don't mess with Big Joe Aribo 

[Saint_clark]

1 hour ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Check out about 23 seconds in, Aribo giving Wesley some evils and a talking to (on the left) haha

My favourite part was before that, Downes running up to get involved with a big grin on his face. 

That Pearson was a horrible little prick all game long. 

[Fabrice Fernandes no.1 fan]

Bit of a cliche admittedly but isn't it nice to see players who stand up for each other like that and bite back a bit. Lots of teams we've put out in the last few years would have lost that game by losing their heads much earlier in the game

[StrangelyBrown]

23 hours ago, SNSUN said:

Mara is a strange one. I don't rate him right now but I see something in him long term. He played a great backheel pass shortly after he came on and I think with more game time he'd have sunk that shot. He seems like a confidence player that is lacking confidence right now. I know our fans are largely split on him but I do think, long term, he will do ok, even if it's not with us. He's only 21 and is only our 4th choice striker if you count Ross. If anything he was a strange choice over Che as sub but maybe Russ sees something in him that he doesn't in Che. Hopefully when we get a fit Ross in all this will be moot anyway.

Maybe Russ sees a bit of passion and effort? To me Che has been going through the motions since the window closed.

[miserableoldgit]

I mention in my observations after the Leeds match that Saints seem to have injected a bit of "nastiness/agressiveness" into their game that was missing before. Glad to see it continued at Stoke.....they didn't like it!!

Edited 5 October, 2023 by miserableoldgit

[Midfield_General]

12 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

I agree, if the arms hadn't been round him then it wouldn't be as it's clearly a coming together but the fact his arms go round him makes it look like deliberate contact. 

Stoke claiming that the PGMOL have apologised and said it should have been a pen: 

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/23837440.pgmol-tell-stoke-penalty-southampton/

[Saint_clark]

14 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Stoke claiming that the PGMOL have apologised and said it should have been a pen: 

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/23837440.pgmol-tell-stoke-penalty-southampton/

They also told them the freekick was soft!? It was an obvious foul by the letter of the law. 

This new trend of PGMOL licking the boots of everyone unhappy with them is starting to do my head in. It's kind of pathetic.

[Patrick Bateman]

Just now, Saint_clark said:

They also told them the freekick was soft!? It was an obvious foul by the letter of the law. 

This new trend of PGMOL licking the boots of everyone unhappy with them is starting to do my head in. It's kind of pathetic.

It's the new tedious thing this season ... "PGMOL" .... bore off, annoyed with hearing "PGMOL" already.

[Kenilworthy]

7 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

They also told them the freekick was soft!? It was an obvious foul by the letter of the law. 

This new trend of PGMOL licking the boots of everyone unhappy with them is starting to do my head in. It's kind of pathetic.

Perhaps PGMOL should also review the numerous dreadful fouls by Stoke players that went unpunished, their failing to return the ball when kicked out so one of their injured players could get attention and the frequent surrounding of the referee?

[AlexLaw76]

23 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Not a wind up at all. These ‘professionals’ cheat all the time at throwing themselves to the ground.

Stoke lad runs across Bedders and slows down to create a collision. Players cheat.

It’s only one arm, not two, and it is not holding the player. Not a sensible thing to do, mind you, and probably unnecessary.

If you think it’s a penalty then you have been conned.

Looks like PGMOL disagree with you. It was a blatant penalty, and for the life of me, can't think why you would suggest otherwise.

8 hours ago, Midfield_General said:

Stoke claiming that the PGMOL have apologised and said it should have been a pen: 

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/23837440.pgmol-tell-stoke-penalty-southampton/

 

[John Boy Saint]

Us and Stoke pinged for the handbags after the final whistle.

Stoke £12,000 - Saints £8,000

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67196117 

[Lighthouse]

1 minute ago, John Boy Saint said:

Us and Stoke pinged for the handbags after the final whistle.

Stoke £12,000 - Saints £8,000

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67196117 

I guess they must have been Louis Vuitton or D&G.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

I'm still in the dark about what actually happened

Edited 24 October, 2023 by Ex Lion Tamer