Are the fans to Blame? (Split)

[Osvaldorama]

6 hours ago, littledavewatson said:

Fans are absolutely not to blame, but I'd argue there's a need for patience. 

At some point, there had to be a revolution with regards to our long-term plan and this summer has seen a huge churn to everything on the pitch and off the pitch and it's been coming for a while. I was pleasantly surprised with our start to the season, and have been unpleasantly surprised by our fall since but I think the inconsistency was inevitable, especially when you factor in key injuries and our transfer window activity going to the last day. It's disappointing when you compare to another relegated side in Leicester, but looking at the bigger picture their long term strategy is still along the same lines but with a new face at the helm. Ours has been flipped upside-down.

Probably in the minority but I'd be far more concerned if in the majority of games we were being battered and played off the park, but I don't think we are. It's individual mistakes and missed chances, if that can change then I think the crowd changes almost instantly. But it has to start clicking sooner rather than later.

 

If you’ve been watching us and don’t think we’ve been battered and played off the park in the last 4 games then I genuinely don’t know what you’ve been watching 

[hypochondriac]

25 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

If you’ve been watching us and don’t think we’ve been battered and played off the park in the last 4 games then I genuinely don’t know what you’ve been watching 

Yes and it's not the losses so much as the manner of them. Middlesbrough could have scored 4 or 5, Sunderland could have got more than the 5 they did get, Leicester probably should have been more with only Ipswich being a fair reflection score wise and even that had then hitting the bar and us offering nothing up the other end. 

[thesaint sfc]

I don't think the fans are expecting instant results. A few unexpected draws, maybe even a tough fought 1-0 loss here or there against clearly worst teams. Its the fact that on paper we should be a really good team but on the pitch everyone looks completely lost and some of our players are putting in gutless performances. The manager seems like a really nice bloke but I don't think thats what we need to get this team working. They need a rod of fire shoved up their arseholes - most of our team were premiership football players and I'm sure still consider themselves worthy of that - the football we are seeing is absolutely dreadful. To consider they are professional footballers being paid insane amounts of money there is nothing but anger that can be felt by the fans at the moment. 

[Dr. Kucho]

Players, managers and directors get a relatively easy ride here. Bit of booing and maybe a chant here and there. Just look at other clubs what happens there when it goes wrong.

Ajax fans kept throwing flares on the pitch last Sunday and when the match was postponed in the second half they smashed their way in through the main entrance to confront the board. 

Marseille fans burned down their training ground when results were poor and Feyenoord fans turned up at the house of this bloke who was about to be named member of their board wearing balaclavas demanding he didn’t. 

(By no way would I want us to do these kind of actions).

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Great spot and there I am on page 2 being pissed off like I said. He really shoved it down everyone's throats. 

Pissed off? 
 

You wanted us to go down, that’s pretty fucking poor. 

[Fabrice Fernandes no.1 fan]

I think we need a formal fan group, made up of long-serving fans local to the club, those the team is supposedly representing to hold the board, coaching staff and players to account.

If you look at continental Europe the teams all have them and it makes such a difference having the fans consulted more often and with a clear correspondence channel to the club (not the shitty fans forum). 

[miserableoldgit]

17 minutes ago, Fabrice Fernandes no.1 fan said:

I think we need a formal fan group, made up of long-serving fans local to the club, those the team is supposedly representing to hold the board, coaching staff and players to account.

If you look at continental Europe the teams all have them and it makes such a difference having the fans consulted more often and with a clear correspondence channel to the club (not the shitty fans forum). 

You are right. I am one of those people who attend the forums and generally come away feeling quite upbeat.......will I ever learn??

[Lee On Solent Saint]

28 minutes ago, Fabrice Fernandes no.1 fan said:

I think we need a formal fan group, made up of long-serving fans local to the club, those the team is supposedly representing to hold the board, coaching staff and players to account.

If you look at continental Europe the teams all have them and it makes such a difference having the fans consulted more often and with a clear correspondence channel to the club (not the shitty fans forum). 

Didn't we try that before? SiSU? Or whatever they were called.

[Saint Fan CaM]

32 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Didn't we try that before? SiSU? Or whatever they were called.

It’s always been a complete waste of time. It’s their business/money and short of significant numbers of supporters deliberately not attending SMS, nothing will stop the club implementing whatever they want. The best method of demonstrating dissatisfaction is for many anti-SR placards to be waved by supporters especially when games are televised, assuming they’re not ejected by Stewards.

[JRM]

 

[Fitzhugh Fella]

3 hours ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Didn't we try that before? SiSU? Or whatever they were called.

They were the chancers that nearly bought us (Thanks to Leon they didn't) who then went on to damn near wreck Coventry.

[saintant]

6 minutes ago, JRM said:

 

Well unless they are completely stupid I'm sure they know how to turn the negativity into positivity yet 'for several years' they have been unable to.

[tdmickey3]

31 minutes ago, JRM said:

 

Poor souls

[Fan The Flames]

4 hours ago, Fabrice Fernandes no.1 fan said:

I think we need a formal fan group, made up of long-serving fans local to the club, those the team is supposedly representing to hold the board, coaching staff and players to account.

If you look at continental Europe the teams all have them and it makes such a difference having the fans consulted more often and with a clear correspondence channel to the club (not the shitty fans forum). 

Why only local fans?

See we can't even agree on that, no chance any group will be able to form a consensus.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

41 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

They were the chancers that nearly bought us (Thanks to Leon they didn't) who then went on to damn near wreck Coventry.

Ah yes. I was trying to think of the guys who were quite active during the Branfoot days. Didn't Illingsworth etc try to become a fans group or something 

[revolution saint]

53 minutes ago, JRM said:

 

Southampton fans are acutely aware of the lack of productivity from players, not just now but for several years.

[JRM]

50 minutes ago, saintant said:

Well unless they are completely stupid I'm sure they know how to turn the negativity into positivity yet 'for several years' they have been unable to.

Yeah I don't know why I shared that  , no quote attributed to anyone or any context, just sense a simmering dislike of the fanbase that could boil over on Saturday, one boo from an old granny in the Itchen and Russel Martin is going full Eric Cantona on her 

Edited 28 September, 2023 by JRM

[Gloucester Saint]

3 hours ago, JRM said:

Yeah I don't know why I shared that  , no quote attributed to anyone or any context, just sense a simmering dislike of the fanbase that could boil over on Saturday, one boo from an old granny in the Itchen and Russel Martin is going full Eric Cantona on her 

Even then it would be a limp Smallbone style leg disturbing said granny’s blanket and at worst, knocking over a flask of lukewarm tea.

I agree it’s a weird comment. I thought from the block 1 closure and Kingsland padded seats kicking out of scores of STHs that the board didn’t like passionate supporters? Unless they wear away colours.

Such a weak, spineless, losers mentality from the club. It’s fuck all compared to what the Leeds players hear from the Revie end at times, or generations of West Ham players from the Chicken Run before they moved. Millwall players would all have stage fright on that basis.

More excuses. Keep it tight, work harder, get fitter, Poch double training sessions if the other 23 teams are better than you, stop the crosses and long range efforts coming in better, attack and defend as unit, screen the back four. Not difficult and no philosophies required but the club cannot do it, even at a lower level than last year with the third most expensive squad.

It doesn’t make me want to return to SMS for the foreseeable, I know that much. I have far nicer things to do than spend 2 hours in the car getting to Southampton, another 45 minutes stuck in the most stupid road layout in Europe, 90 minutes of more stationary traffic this time on the pitch with a 0-4 defeat, an hour to get out again and 2 hours more back.

Did it for Pards, Nigel’s, Poch’s, Ronald’s teams, even Puel’s, as at least they gave it their all. Not doing it now and the club can call me and everyone else on here a negative Nelly if they want.

But it’s their business and it’s the football equivalent of Wilko PLC or Carillion (as opposed to Carrillo who was as big a disaster).

Sort it out, don’t hide behind folk being a corporate coward and stop blaming hard working people paying to watch your bullshit failures. Admit you’ve let the club and city down since 2017 and fucking own the solutions, starting with bringing in a first team manager who can install the EFL basics outlined above. I don’t want to see pages of context from the ex-Dyson bloke, I want to see the team being far harder to beat and competing properly. Tackles, headers, blocks, organisation and communication, attack and shoot like you mean it.

Do the above, and you will get us back onside.

Edited 28 September, 2023 by Gloucester Saint

[Saint_clark]

7 hours ago, JRM said:

 

Started with the club pricing out a lot of the fans who had stuck with them all the way to league one and back. Whatever happened to that discount for fans who had a season ticket in league one by the way? 

Then dire performances at home consistently since Puel and what do you expect? The fans tried at the start of this season, the atmosphere really picked up - but the performances have been worse this season than last season, whether or not you take into account the quality of the opposition. 

[WestMidSaint]

It’s been mentioned above, but I think it’s such a shame everyone at the club gets off so light for such a longtime. Teams like West Ham and Newcastle have made so much noise in the past and put so much pressure on the managers and owners. In Europe the fans go nuts at everyone when they aren’t happy. 
 

The players, manager and board should all be given a far tougher time. “Players are acutely aware of negativity…” GOOD. Surely they can’t think it’s acceptable what they’ve produced. 
 

If (when) we lose again at the weekend, I really hope the pressure is ratcheted up on the board. 
 

What I’d give for some old Dell fever and passion. I know things did go a bit far with the Branfoot protests (by today’s standards we’d probably be kicked out the league!!!), but at least there was some proper passion and noise.

[hypochondriac]

9 hours ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Ah yes. I was trying to think of the guys who were quite active during the Branfoot days. Didn't Illingsworth etc try to become a fans group or something 

We need Richard Chorley and his thirty pieces of silver. 

[Badger]

20 hours ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Didn't we try that before? SiSU? Or whatever they were called.

 

16 hours ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Ah yes. I was trying to think of the guys who were quite active during the Branfoot days. Didn't Illingsworth etc try to become a fans group or something 

Wasn’t it called SISA ? 
 

Thought it a good idea, but as I recall it was undone by a few conflicting egos running it.

[Badger]

9 hours ago, WestMidSaint said:

What I’d give for some old Dell fever and passion. I know things did go a bit far with the Branfoot protests (by today’s standards we’d probably be kicked out the league!!!), but at least there was some proper passion and noise.

Did it ? I thought it was all fairly civilised, holding red cards up and car park protests after a few matches (Port Vale especially).

I don’t recall any disruptions to games,or pitch invasions. It wasn’t just the young and yob elements, but a lot of older (including grey haired old men and ST holders) in the car park after Port Vale. 

[Gloucester Saint]

18 minutes ago, Badger said:

Did it ? I thought it was all fairly civilised, holding red cards up and car park protests after a few matches (Port Vale especially).

I don’t recall any disruptions to games,or pitch invasions. It wasn’t just the young and yob elements, but a lot of older (including grey haired old men and ST holders) in the car park after Port Vale. 

I still remember the banner over the lower East ‘Mr Blobby in, Branfoot out!’

The games where it got a bit more tasty was Oldham home (big protest outside), Sheffield Utd (in the rain) and Leeds home. No pitch invasions or tennis balls but it was a majority of supporters, overwhelming majority. Still the odd person on the Milton saying ‘who are you going to replace him with?’ as per now with Martin.

Remember one away game at Wimbledon/Selhurst where the keepers and full backs were just lumping it forward and us singing ‘we love football, we hate Branfoot’.

The two things that did for him in the end as far as the board were concerned was the 9000 gate v Ipswich, or that’s what it was recorded as, it was almost certainly less in the ground, and the horrific money lost on Dixon/Speedie/Hurlock’s contract. 

Also, I’m ITK on this, but Dimplex only stepped up as last minute shirt sponsor to help the club because all of the other options wouldn’t stump up until Branfoot left because they didn’t want the association with the protests. The board didn’t want to give in to the fans. As mostly the case over the years, the board was 100% wrong, huge improvement under Bally and Lawrie. Dimplex did get their just reward though by MLT scoring his most iconic goals and some of the best in PL history wearing their logo.

[WestMidSaint]

1 hour ago, Badger said:

Did it ? I thought it was all fairly civilised, holding red cards up and car park protests after a few matches (Port Vale especially).

I don’t recall any disruptions to games,or pitch invasions. It wasn’t just the young and yob elements, but a lot of older (including grey haired old men and ST holders) in the car park after Port Vale. 

“Hope you die soon” was the headline at the time. Imagine that in today’s world

[Badger]

3 minutes ago, WestMidSaint said:

“Hope you die soon” was the headline at the time. Imagine that in today’s world

Yes, I remember that but it was a fanzine headline, it certainly wouldn't bring any sanctions against the club though would it ?(being kicked out the league as you mentioned). Lets face it, Millwall are still in the league despite pitch invasions, and threats to life over a few decades.

The headline was picked up by the national media at the time, I remember it was subject of discussion on Radio 5 as I think it was then. General conclusion was it was pretty shameful, but just the work of a few 'hotheads'.

 

 

 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

5 minutes ago, Badger said:

Yes, I remember that but it was a fanzine headline, it certainly wouldn't bring any sanctions against the club though would it ?(being kicked out the league as you mentioned). Lets face it, Millwall are still in the league despite pitch invasions, and threats to life over a few decades.

The headline was picked up by the national media at the time, I remember it was subject of discussion on Radio 5 as I think it was then. General conclusion was it was pretty shameful, but just the work of a few 'hotheads'.

 

 

 

Think I remember it being on what was then Football Focus on BBC1. Think it was Mark Lawrenson at the time, essentially calling the Ugly Inside a disgraceful publication or something like that.

[Turkish]

23 minutes ago, Badger said:

Yes, I remember that but it was a fanzine headline, it certainly wouldn't bring any sanctions against the club though would it ?(being kicked out the league as you mentioned). Lets face it, Millwall are still in the league despite pitch invasions, and threats to life over a few decades.

The headline was picked up by the national media at the time, I remember it was subject of discussion on Radio 5 as I think it was then. General conclusion was it was pretty shameful, but just the work of a few 'hotheads'.

 

 

 

Yes it was either On the March or The Ugly Inside. If i remember rightly it was a common "insult" at the time due to it being used on Harry Enfields comedy show and it was taken from there. I know there was a lot of outrage at the time, although minor in comparison to what it would have got today. This is the sketch it was taken from i believe. 

 

 

 

[TheAlehouseBrawlers]

It was on the cover of the ‘On The March’ fanzine, think it folded soon after, crap headline tbh.

I went to most of the SISA meetings, the early ones at The Captains Corner (?) pub, Hulse Road and Bally’s night at the Polygon we’re excellent evenings but got more and more lefty-political in the end (bit like the UI fanzine) and faded away - but our fans generally take a bit to get them riled enough to start significant action.

[East Kent Saint]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66958019

Oops ! another sensitive owner pulling the plug , he obviously doesn't understand our culture unlike Ms Braverman.

[Midfield_General]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

Yes it was either On the March or The Ugly Inside. If i remember rightly it was a common "insult" at the time due to it being used on Harry Enfields comedy show and it was taken from there. I know there was a lot of outrage at the time, although minor in comparison to what it would have got today. This is the sketch it was taken from i believe. 

 

 

 

Might be a few other lines from that sketch that will come in handy watching us at the moment.

As Smallbone slowly knocks the ball square five yards for the hundredth time with no urgency or pace - 

“Faster! Faster you bitch!” 

[Turkish]

Just now, Midfield_General said:

Might be a few other lines from that sketch that will come in handy watching us at the moment.

As Smallbone slowly knocks the ball square five yards for the hundredth time with no urgency or pace - 

“Faster! Faster you bitch!” 

"What did you want go and do that for you stupid bitch"

as we give the ball away from tapping it around between defence and midfield again

[rallyboy]

20 hours ago, JRM said:

 one boo from an old granny in the Itchen and Russel Martin is going full Eric Cantona on her 

any sort of organised attack would be progress, he's more likely to run up to her and then slide gently sideways or backwards.

[Lord Duckhunter]

3 hours ago, WestMidSaint said:

“Hope you die soon” was the headline at the time. Imagine that in today’s world

I always thought it was in response to Branfoot saying he wasn’t going anywhere. A joke (not particularly funny) based on that’s the only way he leaves the club. It didn’t strike me as a particularly hate filled, although written down it clearly looks bad. It was blown a bit out of proportion, but as you say, repeated now & plod would probably feel your collar. 
 

I remember one gathering in the car park, can’t remember the game, & plod had stationed 2 wooden tops on Branfoots car. Someone pointed out that his tax disc was out of date by a few days & reported it to one of the coppers . His reply was “fuck off & grow up “. Different times. 

[Turkish]

10 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I always thought it was in response to Branfoot saying he wasn’t going anywhere. A joke (not particularly funny) based on that’s the only way he leaves the club. It didn’t strike me as a particularly hate filled, although written down it clearly looks bad. It was blown a bit out of proportion, but as you say, repeated now & plod would probably feel your collar. 
 

I remember one gathering in the car park, can’t remember the game, & plod had stationed 2 wooden tops on Branfoots car. Someone pointed out that his tax disc was out of date by a few days & reported it to one of the coppers . His reply was “fuck off & grow up “. Different times. 

I remember the car park protest. Also the early SISA meetings were good, remember being on the stairs at Captains corner it was packed then it moved to Hulse Road.

 

I also remember the sit in after a game. I was a full on Milton muppet in those days, about 14 i think and about 1,000 of us sat down on the terrace after the game, i remember it being wet and miserable we sat down for about 2 minutes until the stewards came over and said to everyone come on get yourself off home and everyone got up and wet, the worst protest you've ever seen.

[harvey]

23 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I always thought it was in response to Branfoot saying he wasn’t going anywhere. A joke (not particularly funny) based on that’s the only way he leaves the club. It didn’t strike me as a particularly hate filled, although written down it clearly looks bad. It was blown a bit out of proportion, but as you say, repeated now & plod would probably feel your collar. 
 

I remember one gathering in the car park, can’t remember the game, & plod had stationed 2 wooden tops on Branfoots car. Someone pointed out that his tax disc was out of date by a few days & reported it to one of the coppers . His reply was “fuck off & grow up “. Different times. 

I think I still have an "Echo" photo of that car park demo.

[AlexLaw76]

The red card protest after the newcastle game was one I remember.

More so as a teenager, I saw MLT win us the game and score 2 worldies...1 of which will probably be one of the best goals I will ever see live

[Wsaint]

The only fan to blame is the young lad sat behind me at the Ipswich game bitching and moaning the whole game and around 60ish minutes in shouted out "PLAY FOOTBALL", as if we'd been practicing curling for the first 59 minutes. He's to blame and deserves a lifetime ban.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

21 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

The red card protest after the newcastle game was one I remember.

More so as a teenager, I saw MLT win us the game and score 2 worldies...1 of which will probably be one of the best goals I will ever see live

Remember that one. Sunday afternoon on Sky I think. Didn't Le Tiss start after missing about half a dozen games or something like that.

[WestMidSaint]

5 hours ago, Badger said:

Yes, I remember that but it was a fanzine headline, it certainly wouldn't bring any sanctions against the club though would it ?(being kicked out the league as you mentioned). Lets face it, Millwall are still in the league despite pitch invasions, and threats to life over a few decades.

The headline was picked up by the national media at the time, I remember it was subject of discussion on Radio 5 as I think it was then. General conclusion was it was pretty shameful, but just the work of a few 'hotheads'.

 

 

 

You’re right about not bringing sanctions against the team. I’m just being facetious with the “kicked out the league” 😂.  

[harvey]

2 hours ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Remember that one. Sunday afternoon on Sky I think. Didn't Le Tiss start after missing about half a dozen games or something like that.

Branfoot had previously left him out of the team in favour of Paul Moody if I recall?....the camera panned to Branfoot after Matt scored his second and Branfoot had a look on his face as though to say ' I wish that hadn't have just happened ' 

[david in sweden]

On 27/09/2023 at 20:52, thesaint sfc said:

I don't think the fans are expecting instant results. A few unexpected draws, maybe even a tough fought 1-0 loss here or there against clearly worst teams. Its the fact that on paper we should be a really good team but on the pitch everyone looks completely lost and some of our players are putting in gutless performances. The manager seems like a really nice bloke but I don't think thats what we need to get this team working. They need a rod of fire shoved up their arseholes - most of our team were premiership football players and I'm sure still consider themselves worthy of that - the football we are seeing is absolutely dreadful. To consider they are professional footballers being paid insane amounts of money there is nothing but anger that can be felt by the fans at the moment. 

1-      I agree most fans realise that this is a new squad who haven't got it together yet, however those calling for the manager's head are over-represented on this site. 

2-     We may seem to be a good side - based on those players who were good at U21 level - but this is men's football and we lack experience and firepower.

3-     looking at it ... very few of our squad could really be considered Prem. League standard.   KWP, Bednarek and Fraser certainly have experience, and although 

          Ché Adams and Adam Armstrong had a couple of seasons they hardly rank as Prem. level strikers of any real note.

          Bazunu, Edozie both had disappointing seasons and Alcarez  half of a poor season.  Aribo and Manning are only Championship level on a good day,  and 

          the other new names ; Harwood-Bellis and Charles barely had any Prem. time to reckon and Downes is still to find his feet.  They had no pre-season together ,

          and need time we can't afford if we are to consider an instant return to the Prem.     Hardly a well-balanced squad when we lose to the bottom team. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

I’ve still got a Branfoot out tee shirt somewhere. 

[Whitey Grandad]

3 hours ago, harvey said:

Branfoot had previously left him out of the team in favour of Paul Moody if I recall?....the camera panned to Branfoot after Matt scored his second and Branfoot had a look on his face as though to say ' I wish that hadn't have just happened ' 

Branfoot was about to substitute MLT and even had the number 7 card ready. When Matty scored he turns round to ‘Moods’ and says “sit down” with a wry smile on his face.

[harvey]

42 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Branfoot was about to substitute MLT and even had the number 7 card ready. When Matty scored he turns round to ‘Moods’ and says “sit down” with a wry smile on his face.

Thanks for that.....i stand corrected 👍

[Badger]

2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Branfoot was about to substitute MLT and even had the number 7 card ready. When Matty scored he turns round to ‘Moods’ and says “sit down” with a wry smile on his face.

Paul Moody to replace MLT!! 

Could have deprived us of seeing one of the greatest individual goals in the club’s history. 

[Badger]

To Branfoot’s credit though I think he handled the abuse well. He always faced up to it, and continued to walk the touchline to the dugouts. 
 

By comparison, I recall Chris Nicholl started to watch the first half from the Directors Box when he was facing flak (especially after the dispute with Mark Dennis). He’d then come to the touch line 10-15 minutes into the second half, almost hoping no one would notice. Fortunately for him he did turn things round and his popularity improved.

 

[Dark Munster]

6 hours ago, david in sweden said:

1-      I agree most fans realise that this is a new squad who haven't got it together yet, however those calling for the manager's head are over-represented on this site. 

Before the mods rudely deleted the poll, there were over 100 responses and over 80% were calling for the muppet to be sacked.

[Lighthouse]

27 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

Before the mods rudely deleted the poll, there were over 100 responses and over 80% were calling for the muppet to be sacked.

The poll was deleted accidentally, so apologies for that. On the other hand a poll asking if you want the manager sacked, immediately after a fourth successive defeat, is quite clearly only going to go massively in one direction, to the point that there’s very little point in having it.

[Dark Munster]

22 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

The poll was deleted accidentally, so apologies for that. On the other hand a poll asking if you want the manager sacked, immediately after a fourth successive defeat, is quite clearly only going to go massively in one direction, to the point that there’s very little point in having it.

Fair play. I'll wait a few days after our 6th successive defeat before posting a new one!