Electric cars

[Smirking_Saint]

So unfortunately it looks like work is pushing me down the electric vehicle route, I do potentially have other options but the EVs are heavily subsidised as they want to champion an EV fleet

Im starting to lean that way, ultimately I think Im confortable, the options Im looking at seem to hage around 230m real world ranges and I can get a 1k loan for a home charger install

Anyone on here have an EV ? Just wondered peoples thoughts on current infrastructure etc

My one hang up is currently, if Im doing a long journey I can pop in, fill and go but that won’t be an issue anymore

[Turkish]

i couldn't believe the price of them. A hybrid car would make sense for me, most of my mileage is round town with a couple of 300 mile round trips for work a month. Looked into upgrade my car which is now 3 years old for a new hybrid version and it was coming out at £200 a month more. 

A lot of companies seem to be pushing people down this route, i opted out of the car scheme so get an allowance but that would only cover half what they want for new one.

[Saint Luke]

I have a Cupra Born with a 58Kw battery and V3 spec.

Quoted range 240 miles. You can get the 78Kw but you lose a seat in the back - this has a quoted range of around 340 miles I think.

Pottering around you can get that and sometimes more - after one charge it told me the range was 290 miles - no heating or AC on.

Any motorway driving and then no.

Most I've got was 200 on a motorway drive and probably not going over 65.

It's a great car, lots of toys, nice to drive - but £41K - over priced (company car - saves me lots of money over the previous Golf GTE which was a hybrid)

My boss has a Polestar -2 years old and that always says he gets 250 miles on a charge.

If you have to do a lot of mileage EV's are not for you.

If mainly short journeys then they are good.

Of course - whether they are really as good for the planet as they say is another matter. The damage from getting the lithium for the batteries, the eventual hit taht will come when all these EVs batteries reach the end of their life, how the electricity is generated etc etc.

I am all for alternative fuels but do wonder if EV is the answer and not something else (hydrogen)

[cloggy saint]

I've got a 35 year old 3.5 BMW that does 22 mpg on a good day, and they'll have to pry it from my cold dead hands.

[Tony F]

My wife and I have an EV each, one a VW with approx 300 mile range and a BMW runaround with less than 100.

I have commuted to work (44 miles) in the BMW (before I retired) and it was costing between 1p and 2p a mile to run it.  

The VW took us to Austria last year, 2000miles at a cost of 6p/mile and I am presently in Denmark enjoying it and paying little more, on average, for my mileage.  The real difference is that we only drive about 500-600km each day (with one stop to charge).  But we don't want to drive further than that each day anyway.  There are still hotels that let you charge for free, so we tend to stay in those.  No-one gives petrol or diesel away for free!!

These two cars suit us really well (and our driving costs have plummeted compared to driving petrol our diesel).  Other people maybe not so.  As time goes on they will get better and so will the infrastructure.

Oh - and they're both really nice to drive 🙂 

[Smirking_Saint]

  On 14/09/2023 at 11:40, Turkish said:

i couldn't believe the price of them. A hybrid car would make sense for me, most of my mileage is round town with a couple of 300 mile round trips for work a month. Looked into upgrade my car which is now 3 years old for a new hybrid version and it was coming out at £200 a month more. 

A lot of companies seem to be pushing people down this route, i opted out of the car scheme so get an allowance but that would only cover half what they want for new one.

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Yeah they’re ridiculously expensive for what they are, although prices are coming down

I can get the top spec Touota Bz4X for 100 a month though, and thats on a full maintenance contract with unlimited mileage.. so feels a no brainer.. but so far Im just a littke sceptical around infrastructure.. I don’t tend to do huge journeys, but my daily commutes can and do hit 100ish miles a day

I suppose the odd times we go somewhere like Devon or Cornwall for a break Ill either have to plan properly or use the petrol car we have instead… annoyingly that’s currently a Focus ST.. so might have to convince the Mrs to get a different car too 😂

[Smirking_Saint]

  On 14/09/2023 at 18:11, Tony F said:

My wife and I have an EV each, one a VW with approx 300 mile range and a BMW runaround with less than 100.

I have commuted to work (44 miles) in the BMW (before I retired) and it was costing between 1p and 2p a mile to run it.  

The VW took us to Austria last year, 2000miles at a cost of 6p/mile and I am presently in Denmark enjoying it and paying little more, on average, for my mileage.  The real difference is that we only drive about 500-600km each day (with one stop to charge).  But we don't want to drive further than that each day anyway.  There are still hotels that let you charge for free, so we tend to stay in those.  No-one gives petrol or diesel away for free!!

These two cars suit us really well (and our driving costs have plummeted compared to driving petrol our diesel).  Other people maybe not so.  As time goes on they will get better and so will the infrastructure.

Oh - and they're both really nice to drive 🙂 

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Whats the charging infrastructure like in Europe ? I get a tad worried that Ill be driving and there will be no chargers or they’ll be offline

[Turkish]

  On 15/09/2023 at 06:50, Smirking_Saint said:

Yeah they’re ridiculously expensive for what they are, although prices are coming down

I can get the top spec Touota Bz4X for 100 a month though, and thats on a full maintenance contract with unlimited mileage.. so feels a no brainer.. but so far Im just a littke sceptical around infrastructure.. I don’t tend to do huge journeys, but my daily commutes can and do hit 100ish miles a day

I suppose the odd times we go somewhere like Devon or Cornwall for a break Ill either have to plan properly or use the petrol car we have instead… annoyingly that’s currently a Focus ST.. so might have to convince the Mrs to get a different car too 😂

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🤣 it’ll cost you more to get there than the hotel

will they not let you go hybrid?

 

 

[Fan The Flames]

  On 15/09/2023 at 06:51, Smirking_Saint said:

Whats the charging infrastructure like in Europe ? I get a tad worried that Ill be driving and there will be no chargers or they’ll be offline

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A work colleague's husband had to get a MG electric car through his work. They went to Europe and could only charge it up on a home plug, it wouldn't work on a street charger. They had to leave it at their family's home in Brussels and hire a car for ten days. It was an operating issue with MG. Another friend has a MG and has loads of issues fixing a problem.

Avoid Chinese cars.

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 15/09/2023 at 07:13, Fan The Flames said:

A work colleague's husband had to get a MG electric car through his work. They went to Europe and could only charge it up on a home plug, it wouldn't work on a street charger. They had to leave it at their family's home in Brussels and hire a car for ten days. It was an operating issue with MG. Another friend has a MG and has loads of issues fixing a problem.

Avoid Chinese cars.

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Like Tesla

[AlexLaw76]

I would be v.interested in getting an EV, if the infra around me was not so hilariously bad for charging purposes.

[benjii]

My car does about 8mpg. Lolz.

[aintforever]

We're thinking of getting a hybrid, seems to make more sense with the lack of infrastructure around.

My main concern with EVs is how long the battery lasts and the cost to replace it. If the range is 240 miles new then if it degrades anything like my iPhone then in 10 years time it would have a range of about 5 miles!

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 15/09/2023 at 11:22, aintforever said:

We're thinking of getting a hybrid, seems to make more sense with the lack of infrastructure around.

My main concern with EVs is how long the battery lasts and the cost to replace it. If the range is 240 miles new then if it degrades anything like my iPhone then in 10 years time it would have a range of about 5 miles!

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Costs about £15k at the moment to replace the batteries in a Tesla.

[Fan The Flames]

  On 15/09/2023 at 08:19, Weston Super Saint said:

Like Tesla

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That would fall into the group of 'avoid cars built by a megalomaniac wanker'

[Smirking_Saint]

  On 15/09/2023 at 06:59, Turkish said:

🤣 it’ll cost you more to get there than the hotel

will they not let you go hybrid?

 

 

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Hybrid is an option but not as heavily subsidised so for the same contract its going to be closer to 300 a month unfortunately

Ive currently got a Rav4 self charge hybrid.. great car for a work vehicle, but the contracts up

[OldNick]

A friend has one, the power range runs out very quickly. He loves the acceleration but says as soon as he puts any of the gizmos like heating on it drops quickly.

Another thing I was told last week that they are so heavy now, once they become the norm they will have to reinforce multi storey car parks etc. Im going to resist buying one for as long as possible, I hate stopping for petrol if there is 2 cars in a queue bugger it if I have to sit 30 mins to charge up 

[whelk]

Apparently the increased acceleration will also do far more damage to tarmac

[ecuk268]

Interesting bit of innovation from the Chinese...

 

[OldNick]

  On 18/09/2023 at 11:44, ecuk268 said:

Interesting bit of innovation from the Chinese...

 

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Always amazed that this system has not been done before, but  assume the weight is a major problem 

[badgerx16]

  On 18/09/2023 at 12:09, OldNick said:

Always amazed that this system has not been done before, but  assume the weight is a major problem 

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Renault tried it around 2010 in partnership with a company called Better Place, but it was a financial failure.

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 18/09/2023 at 12:09, OldNick said:

Always amazed that this system has not been done before, but  assume the weight is a major problem 

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I imagine every chassis is different making it almost impossible.

I've seen some great schemes in Asia for electric scooters / mopeds where the batteries are just taken out and swapped - I guess it's easier to build the infrastructure to support that when the bikes all use the same batteries.

 

[egg]

  On 18/09/2023 at 12:44, Weston Super Saint said:

I imagine every chassis is different making it almost impossible.

I've seen some great schemes in Asia for electric scooters / mopeds where the batteries are just taken out and swapped - I guess it's easier to build the infrastructure to support that when the bikes all use the same batteries.

 

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With some joined up thinking, there's no reason why, going forward, there can't be uniform battery tech, and uniform charging for those batteries. The difficulty though is that all manufacturers are jockeying for position and knocking out their own produce as the next best thing. 

The whole thing is a complete farce. Completely unachievable and environmentally disastrous in reality. 

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 18/09/2023 at 12:50, egg said:

With some joined up thinking, there's no reason why, going forward, there can't be uniform battery tech, and uniform charging for those batteries. The difficulty though is that all manufacturers are jockeying for position and knocking out their own produce as the next best thing. 

The whole thing is a complete farce. Completely unachievable and environmentally disastrous in reality. 

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Just look at how many different chargers are in use!

[egg]

  On 18/09/2023 at 13:53, Weston Super Saint said:

Just look at how many different chargers are in use!

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Yep. It's mental, as is the belief that there is any prospect that people in flats and terraced houses will have a the ability to charge their vehicles at home. The government need to concede to common sense on this one. 

[Fan The Flames]

  On 18/09/2023 at 15:59, egg said:

Yep. It's mental, as is the belief that there is any prospect that people in flats and terraced houses will have a the ability to charge their vehicles at home. The government need to concede to common sense on this one. 

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Lamp posts.

[egg]

  On 18/09/2023 at 18:07, Fan The Flames said:

Lamp posts.

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Every village and town will like like bloody Blackpool if we stick enough street lamps up to serve the vehicles that aren't on peoples driveways! 

Rows of terraced houses may have a few street lamps, but 2 cars to most houses. Zero prospect of the street lamps servicing that lot. Blocks of flats similar. 

It's a pipe dream. 

[badgerx16]

  On 18/09/2023 at 18:07, Fan The Flames said:

Lamp posts.

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Would need a complete electrical supply replacement, plus how many cars could you connect to a post at a time ?

[egg]

  On 18/09/2023 at 18:49, badgerx16 said:

Would need a complete electrical supply replacement, plus how many cars could you connect to a post at a time ?

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I can just imagine people racing to get home, finding a space on the street, getting their little cable out and plugging it into the lamppost and catching up with the neighbours all doing the same. Lovely. 

[Fan The Flames]

I agree it's difficult, but I see lamp posts and bollards with plugs in London. So there are solutions, will it be possible to scale up, who knows. 

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 18/09/2023 at 18:07, Fan The Flames said:

Lamp posts.

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They get switched off at midnight.

How long to charge a car from a lamp post?

Still, it's a good solution to the congestion issues as no one will ever be able to go anywhere!

[Fan The Flames]

  On 18/09/2023 at 19:04, Weston Super Saint said:

They get switched off at midnight.

How long to charge a car from a lamp post?

Still, it's a good solution to the congestion issues as no one will ever be able to go anywhere!

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I can't work out if your first line is a gag or not. 

[suewhistle]

  On 15/09/2023 at 08:24, AlexLaw76 said:

I would be v.interested in getting an EV, if the infra around me was not so hilariously bad for charging purposes.

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Yes, I wouldn't get one if you can't get a charger at your flat or bedsit, but for many people the infrastructure near you is a bit pointless if you charge at home overnight. Currently I pay 7.5p a kWh for 6 hours overnight which give me more than I need. Currently doing around 4 miles per kWh including hacking up and down the M27.

The only time I've needed to charge away from home (apart from testing) was when I went to see Saints at Sheffield, in my MG4 with no problems. Luckily I had to stop for a wee (and so charged as well) earlier than planned which was just as well as the M1 (along with my planned stop) was completely shut due to an accident .

Ignore any articles by Mail or Express 'journalists' on the subject: they are just trying to show that they are too stupid to own an electric car. As for charging in France, there has been a dramatic expansion in charger availability in the last year, particularly on and just off the autoroutes, which I've noticed in doing my own trip planning. I wouldn't worry there or in NL and Germany etc.

I see the usual misinformation here you get on any thread about EVs. If you don't want one, don't get one, but spare us all the tabloid guff.

[ecuk268]

  On 18/09/2023 at 19:04, Weston Super Saint said:

They get switched off at midnight.

How long to charge a car from a lamp post?

Still, it's a good solution to the congestion issues as no one will ever be able to go anywhere!

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Could be a bit dodgy when a passing dog cocks his leg.

[Fan The Flames]

  On 18/09/2023 at 19:39, suewhistle said:

Yes, I wouldn't get one if you can't get a charger at your flat or bedsit, but for many people the infrastructure near you is a bit pointless if you charge at home overnight. Currently I pay 7.5p a kWh for 6 hours overnight which give me more than I need. Currently doing around 4 miles per kWh including hacking up and down the M27.

The only time I've needed to charge away from home (apart from testing) was when I went to see Saints at Sheffield, in my MG4 with no problems. Luckily I had to stop for a wee (and so charged as well) earlier than planned which was just as well as the M1 (along with my planned stop) was completely shut due to an accident .

Ignore any articles by Mail or Express 'journalists' on the subject: they are just trying to show that they are too stupid to own an electric car. As for charging in France, there has been a dramatic expansion in charger availability in the last year, particularly on and just off the autoroutes, which I've noticed in doing my own trip planning. I wouldn't worry there or in NL and Germany etc.

I see the usual misinformation here you get on any thread about EVs. If you don't want one, don't get one, but spare us all the tabloid guff.

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Although the Express love Chinese EVs now they are the enemy of the EU.

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 18/09/2023 at 19:07, Fan The Flames said:

I can't work out if your first line is a gag or not. 

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It's not a joke. Been like it for years.

https://n-somerset.gov.uk/my-services/parking-travel-roads/roads-streets/street-lights-signs/led-part-night-street-lighting

[Fan The Flames]

  On 18/09/2023 at 21:12, Weston Super Saint said:

It's not a joke. Been like it for years.

https://n-somerset.gov.uk/my-services/parking-travel-roads/roads-streets/street-lights-signs/led-part-night-street-lighting

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Yes, but that's just the light going off not the electricity.

[suewhistle]

As it happens I have a terrace house but luckily have space out front. But remember most people don't charge every day; for example I do a bit more than once a fortnight depending on my usage patterns. Some people can charge at work. Although I agree that the situation isn't good for flat dwellers a bit of constructive regulation by government would help. We may have to wait a bit for the current useless lot to be gone before seeing that.

 

To anybody who is being pushed towards an EV there is really nothing to fear. Have a look at a specialist forum like SpeakEV which will answer many of your concerns and even help you choose a model if you get a choice on your company car scheme.

[Turkish]

Just had a quick look on the Tesla site. They are fairly reasonably priced on a PCP deal. CAn pick up the larger model ex demo for about £550 a month £1k down, which is pretty good considering Ranger Rover were quoting me for a new hybrid evoque £700 a month recently.

[Guided Missile]

Buy a relatively new Euro 6 diesel and run it into the ground, in my opinion. I was an early adopter of a Golf E and couldn't wait to get shot of it after 2 years. A nightmare. 

One day E.V's maybe practical, but probably not. Remember Gordon Brown? Sales of diesel vehicles soared from 1.5 million to 11 million since a tax break was introduced when Tony Blair was Prime Minister. In 2001, Gordon Brown – then Chancellor – introduced lower vehicle tax for diesel cars on the basis they were less polluting and would bring down overall carbon dioxide levels.🤣

Don't trust the government. They are banning gas boilers for heat fucking pumps. 

[spyinthesky]

Interesting programme on the TV last night re corrosion problems on bridges and flyovers caused by encasing steel within concrete which have degraded..

Many of these structures were built with tolerances relative to the average weight of cars and commercial vehicles.

Both these assumptions would not have factored in the heavier weight of battery cars and heavier weight limits allowable for HGV's.

Dealing with this could potentially mean billions of £££££ in upgrades/maintenance.

[badgerx16]

  On 19/09/2023 at 10:23, Guided Missile said:

Don't trust the government. They are banning gas boilers for heat fucking pumps. 

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Our house has never had gas, but we do love our new heat pump. We now have hot water on tap without having to put the immersion heater on.

Edited 19 September, 2023 by badgerx16

[Tony F]

  On 15/09/2023 at 06:51, Smirking_Saint said:

Whats the charging infrastructure like in Europe ? I get a tad worried that Ill be driving and there will be no chargers or they’ll be offline

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Sorry to be late replying.

 

Basically, it's pretty good, better than UK.  If you buy an RFID card from "Chargemaps" which will allow you to access about 90% of chargers.  Then use the Chargemaps App to find chargers, charge up, and get an invoice at the end of the month.

[iansums]

Only just seen this thread, I’ve got a Polestar 2 as a company car. I had a Merc A class hybrid on order for 6 months before being cancelled so I had to quickly find an alternative and went for the Polestar. I absolutely love the car, it’s a dream to drive, looks great IMO and the infotainment system with Google Maps built in is excellent. I use the one pedal drive which makes driving especially in traffic so much more relaxing. I fully understand many of the reservations on here, I would say that if you do a lot of miles then charging infrastructure is a big problem. I get a range of about 230 miles and can do a round trip to Heathrow on a single charge, any further then I’d need to plan a charging stop. I’m lucky as being a company car and having free charging at work I’m saving well over £300 a month compared to my previous Mazda 6.

[Lord Duckhunter]

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/motors/11320530/electric-vehicle-car-brakes-malfunction-glasgow-police/

[Fan The Flames]

Don't buy Chinese. The car was being controlled from Beijing.

[igsey]

I've had an electric car (MG 4 Trophy) for about 4 months now, I've been very impressed and had no issues. We got it because it was the cheapest electric car with decent range (~240 miles), and as we got it through a work scheme via Octopus, came with a home charger installed for free (should be around £1k).

Since we got the car we've switched to the Intelligent Octopus tariff which lets you charge overnight for 1/4 the cost without increasing the rest of your energy like a typical Economy 7 tariff would.

No regrets, electric cars go like nothing else and I don't miss going to petrol stations at all.

I think in the 4 months we've had it we've needed to stop and charge at a public charger three times, all for a 10 minute top up to add 50 miles to get home. It can be a pain (Exeter services was awful, had to wait for a working charger for about 20 minutes) but they are expanding everywhere all the time, and charging at a public charger works out around the same price-per-mile as petrol.

[Tony F]

Although an EV owner, I try to read these sorts of discussions with objectivity.  EV owners on here like SueWhistle and Igsey, say it's absolutely fine for them.  As it is for me.  Most daily journeys are supported by home charging, and if you get about 4 miles per unit and pay between 10 and 20p per unit (on a night rate) then you're driving for less than 5p/mile, compared to at least 15p, probably nearer 20p for anyone burning fuel.  

My adult son tells me, "Dad, if it's cheap or free it might not be perfect" and of course he's right.  Long journeys need some planning, might take a bit longer (but when you're over 60 you want regular rests and pee stops anyway) but my wife and I went to Austria and back for 6p/mile, more recently around Germany and Denmark for about the same cost (including free charges at some hotels), and we were driving mostly on motorways.  So it makes great sense to us. Plus, our new EV is the most comfortable to drive that we have ever had, with really noice options like the option to pre-heat the car on a cold day (or pre-cool it on a hot day), massager built into the seat etc. And no, I don't feel that the list price of the car was much more than we were going to spend renewing our car anyway.

Some of the negative opinions/points are really practical, the strongest being along the lines of "There is no-where I can charge up at my home" (especially those that live in flats) and I get that, its a problem that needs to be solved.  Others who maybe need to drive 300miles or more each day, on a schedule, and say an EV would be a problem.  At the moment, that's true, but in time it will probably be solved.

However, a lot of the nay-sayers clearly have no factual information to base their objections on.  They are probably petrol heads who feel threatened. I've encountered quite a few of those and laughed at some of the crap they have come up with.  Some of which seems to be planted by tabloids with an agenda - and mostly completely wrong.  Like the "alert" that batteries are really dangerous if you get in a traffic accident (err - yes - but you'd be the first to run from your car if you thought the full tank of petrol was gonna go up!)  Like so many things in life, sometimes it might be better to keep quiet if you don't really know what you're talking about, or are prepared to take a balanced view.  But that's a lot to ask, I guess!

I'll be driving to the Saints game today, in my small EV I get about 5.5 miles/kWh and I am paying 11p/kWh, so I am driving for 2p a mile.  I pay no road tax (yet - yes, that will change) and my servicing costs are really low, just steering, brakes and windscreen wipers really.  

Edited 8 October, 2023 by Tony F