Saints 1-4 Leicester - Match Thread

[Fan The Flames]

3 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Harsh to single him out. He was the only attacking player who looked like he was going to make something happen in the second half, he misplaced a pass in the attacking third that led to a goal because our entire defence was over-committed so you can't blame him for that, and the red card was a travesty.

The red card was shit, and so was his misplaced pass, he had his head up so he could see that we were over-committed, he had to make that pass work or do something else with it. It was sloppy or arrogant. He had made a shit pass earlier, with out the bad consequences, but didn't take the warning.

[saintant]

13 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

In fairness Ive been pretty vocal, certainly during the transfer window against any pessimistic voices, so its only fair I come here now with balance

Last night, and Sunderland were as poor a defensive performance as I can ever remember… potentially since the 9-0 but even then I felt like our defensive shape was better than it was in the last 180 mins

I think we likely have the best squad in this division, the best 11s are probably between us or Leicester and I do think we’re both better than Leeds overall, so ultimately its down to tactics and ours have too many negatives

I know I keep banging the drum but if he doesn’t give us more defensive structure then we’ll be struggling to mount a meaningful promotion drive come christmas, because despite how good we are on the ball we simply are too easy to play against us… if I was our opponent Id push high on us when we play from the back, then retreat as we progress.. keep two wide men wide and you have counter options and we see that counters work

At a basic level he needs a No.6 to stick to that position and atleast one of the WBs to support that, if we give up the flanks then we do.. you can’t cover everything, but unfortunately we can ne turned over wide or centrally right now

Im genuinely worried that RM is either too stubborn or incapable of changing things

Think you are kidding yourself and have believed the hype - we are not very good on the ball.

[OldNick]

10 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

In fairness Ive been pretty vocal, certainly during the transfer window against any pessimistic voices, so its only fair I come here now with balance

Last night, and Sunderland were as poor a defensive performance as I can ever remember… potentially since the 9-0 but even then I felt like our defensive shape was better than it was in the last 180 mins

I think we likely have the best squad in this division, the best 11s are probably between us or Leicester and I do think we’re both better than Leeds overall, so ultimately its down to tactics and ours have too many negatives

I know I keep banging the drum but if he doesn’t give us more defensive structure then we’ll be struggling to mount a meaningful promotion drive come christmas, because despite how good we are on the ball we simply are too easy to play against us… if I was our opponent Id push high on us when we play from the back, then retreat as we progress.. keep two wide men wide and you have counter options and we see that counters work

At a basic level he needs a No.6 to stick to that position and atleast one of the WBs to support that, if we give up the flanks then we do.. you can’t cover everything, but unfortunately we can ne turned over wide or centrally right now

Im genuinely worried that RM is either too stubborn or incapable of changing things

Good that you own up to being wrong.

As I had stated how can you win lots of games when you basically have a team of kids, who are not strong enough to stand up to the rough tough seasoned pro's we are going to face, especially in midfield. We can do it before the season really cranks up but once it does facing midfields with hardened Championship players will become impossible. I like Smallbone and noticed there was cries of we can't sell him etc etc, seems today the 7m offer from Sheff Utd was about right.

Where is that tough tackling midfielder we have been crying out for? Its almost we are in a coma and shouting at the club but can't be heard that we needed a big centre back, tough midfielder and and big centre forward. Until we see what Stewart can do the jury is out on him

[Yorkshire Saint]

If you want cheering up go and listen to the last 2 hours of radio 5 and that scrotum natjan jones ...

Edited 16 September, 2023 by Yorkshire Saint

[Forester]

Firstly am not going to go OTT, ten points from six games is only two behind  track and there is a long way to go.  However….….

Genuinely concerned if Martin’s view is that we ALWAYS have to line up in that formation with one holding midfielder.  Compounded with the flexibility he wants to give defenders to get forward (which I don’t dislike) we are too open.  Often last night they had four v four on us waiting for something to go wrong.

I don’t think we are far off it going forward, but rather than one holder and two attackers I would reverse that and play 4-2-1-3.  When all fit probably Downes and Charles as the 2.

The lack of tactical flexibility is an early concern for me.  I like his philosophy but any style can become predictable if not changed.

[Smirking_Saint]

7 minutes ago, saintant said:

Think you are kidding yourself and have believed the hype - we are not very good on the ball.

I mean, we are, we’ve shown that to be true but when it goes wrong it goes very wrong, if we can play the way we want to we’re fine, we’re just trash defensively 

[Forester]

23 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

In fairness Ive been pretty vocal, certainly during the transfer window against any pessimistic voices, so its only fair I come here now with balance

Last night, and Sunderland were as poor a defensive performance as I can ever remember… potentially since the 9-0 but even then I felt like our defensive shape was better than it was in the last 180 mins

I think we likely have the best squad in this division, the best 11s are probably between us or Leicester and I do think we’re both better than Leeds overall, so ultimately its down to tactics and ours have too many negatives

I know I keep banging the drum but if he doesn’t give us more defensive structure then we’ll be struggling to mount a meaningful promotion drive come christmas, because despite how good we are on the ball we simply are too easy to play against us… if I was our opponent Id push high on us when we play from the back, then retreat as we progress.. keep two wide men wide and you have counter options and we see that counters work

At a basic level he needs a No.6 to stick to that position and atleast one of the WBs to support that, if we give up the flanks then we do.. you can’t cover everything, but unfortunately we can ne turned over wide or centrally right now

Im genuinely worried that RM is either too stubborn or incapable of changing things

Good post, this is how I see it

[The Cat]

 

 

[kitch]

There's nothing to be gained by trying to analyse last night. Only thing I took out of it was the number of times in the second half one of our creative players (normally Stu or Alcaraz) wandered into the opposing half looking to start something, before hanging onto the ball for what seemed like 4 hours while they desperately looked around for someone to move it to. How can a team that's set up with 5 attackers have no options in the final third?! Leicester weren't sat deep or anything (they didn't need to). 
Were players hiding? Were they in the wrong positions?

All the shit that's gone on over the past couple of years, and last night it looked like nobody at the club had learned a thing.

Credit to Baz, thought it'd be 5 or 6 if it weren't for him.

[Whitey Grandad]

4 hours ago, Chez said:

He started really brightly, and showed his electric pace, but he seemed to run out of steam quite quickly.

Also, I got the slight feeling that he might be more interested in putting a highlight reel together than get this team promoted. That might be as harsh as the red card he got. 

He started brightly but then disappeared. He must have vanished from sight because none of our players ever saw him or passed to him after that.

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

17 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

There were moments in the first half where Leicester wide players were just stood on their own with no full backs anywhere near them. I don't think the full backs have any idea what they are supposed to be doing. We've seen it with the amount of crosses that come into our box and with the lack of closing down. Similarly we had Edozie doing defensive work again, in front of the defense for one of the goals. I don't think a number of players know where they should be when we are defending which is what us causing all these problems. KWP is an excellent player yet he looks appaling. It has to be the coaching. 

Lazy Saturday, so reading pre-match and post match comments and despite the rumour, there's a lot of common sense written on this forum.

When the team was announced, we could all see the midfield was light. Shea has to be the defensive midfielder. And Shea, THB (despite that early mistake) and KWP are intrinsically good players so why are they looking so ordinary? The coaching is wrong. And unless he's injured/knackered, don't take off your best player.

And as for Sulemana being our saviour, his attitude stank. He can fuck right off.

Everton, after that Leicester game, was one of my worst in recent memory but that was almost funny with the crowd chucking their freebie scarfs away. Yesterday was depressing. The drive down and back through the M3 was shit and the players (other than AA and Edozie) didn't seem to care or know what to do. Sort it out RM

[saintant]

1 hour ago, kitch said:

There's nothing to be gained by trying to analyse last night. Only thing I took out of it was the number of times in the second half one of our creative players (normally Stu or Alcaraz) wandered into the opposing half looking to start something, before hanging onto the ball for what seemed like 4 hours while they desperately looked around for someone to move it to. How can a team that's set up with 5 attackers have no options in the final third?! Leicester weren't sat deep or anything (they didn't need to). 
Were players hiding? Were they in the wrong positions?

All the shit that's gone on over the past couple of years, and last night it looked like nobody at the club had learned a thing.

Credit to Baz, thought it'd be 5 or 6 if it weren't for him.

Yet some are saying we are great on the ball - I don't agree by the way.

[Saint_clark]

1 hour ago, kitch said:

 Only thing I took out of it was the number of times in the second half one of our creative players (normally Stu or Alcaraz) wandered into the opposing half looking to start something, before hanging onto the ball for what seemed like 4 hours while they desperately looked around for someone to move it to. How can a team that's set up with 5 attackers have no options in the final third?! Leicester weren't sat deep or anything (they didn't need to). 
Were players hiding? Were they in the wrong positions?

 

The forward players are stood waiting for a pass rather than making runs to create space, it's mental. We'd trying to move the ball round the opposition rather than move players into the space to receive it. Armstrong, Edozie, Fraser, Sulemana are all players who would thrive putting the ball over the top of the defence or between the two centrebacks yet we have them stood with their backs to goal waiting for the pass.

[kenneth_kenobi]

Why play back to keeper from OUR match kickoff?  Immediately put us under pressure. 
Whenever we get a corner it is more likely that the opposition will score on the break against our non-defence as we NEVER score from corners. 

[Galway saint]

The last two games have been so bad they pretty much defy analysis. it’s pretty comical really having conceded 19 goals in 7 games. 

however as far as i can see martin is trying to play a brand of football that might only work if we had roberto carlos at left back and cafu at right back with kante in his prime at centre midfield. 

it’s nuts that we are trying to play a style of football that doesn’t in any way reflect the players we have. 

i’m really not sure where martin goes from here.

 

 

 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

5 minutes ago, Galway saint said:

The last two games have been so bad they pretty much defy analysis. it’s pretty comical really having conceded 19 goals in 7 games. 

however as far as i can see martin is trying to play a brand of football that might only work if we had roberto carlos at left back and cafu at right back with kante in his prime at centre midfield. 

it’s nuts that we are trying to play a style of football that doesn’t in any way reflect the players we have. 

i’m really not sure where martin goes from here.

 

 

 

But that's the point a lot are making. They can be the best defenders in the world, but if the tactics/coaching is all wrong they look very ordinary.

Also there didn't seem to be so much tippy tappy passing sideways by the centre backs and Baz last night. There tended to be more of the Baz hoof, which to be fair to him, usually found his player.

[Galway saint]

1 minute ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

But that's the point a lot are making. They can be the best defenders in the world, but if the tactics/coaching is all wrong they look very ordinary.

Also there didn't seem to be so much tippy tappy passing sideways by the centre backs and Baz last night. There tended to be more of the Baz hoof, which to be fair to him, usually found his player.

i agree there was less aimless passing last night and the possession stats reflected that.

sometimes the players aren’t up to it and sometimes they aren’t set up and coached properly. sometimes both but at the moment the coach is having a total mare. 

god knows what the senior players make of it.

his post match interview was alarming as well

feels like we have made another gaff on the manager front 

[gurru991]

6 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Had we won 1-0 & Sully hadn’t been sent off, I bet James Justin would have said it was a red. 

I don't think so, James Justin is a stand up kind of guy. But you are welcome to think the worst .

[Block41 Saint]

Can't help but think SR have made another poor manager appointment here. He's going to be under so much pressure to perform in the coming games now, which are really tough on paper. 

We are absolutely shocking off the ball under RM and the better teams in this league have exploited it. I don't understand why we continue to have a massive gap between our midfield and back four, it's allowing teams so much space to attack us. 

Last night was a really tough watch which tbh has become the norm at St. Mary's since 2017. The rot is too big. 

I'd like to see us go for a 4-2-3-1. Shea Charles has to play in midfield as our midfield looks weak as fuck when he's not there. We need to stop having KWP and Manning come into the middle when we have the ball, it leaves us so vulnerable on the wings when we lose it. 

[lambtiss]

36 minutes ago, Block41 Saint said:

Can't help but think SR have made another poor manager appointment here. He's going to be under so much pressure to perform in the coming games now, which are really tough on paper. 

We are absolutely shocking off the ball under RM and the better teams in this league have exploited it. I don't understand why we continue to have a massive gap between our midfield and back four, it's allowing teams so much space to attack us. 

Last night was a really tough watch which tbh has become the norm at St. Mary's since 2017. The rot is too big. 

I'd like to see us go for a 4-2-3-1. Shea Charles has to play in midfield as our midfield looks weak as fuck when he's not there. We need to stop having KWP and Manning come into the middle when we have the ball, it leaves us so vulnerable on the wings when we lose it. 

Pretty much how I see it too. I would like to see this given a try against Ipswich 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

34 minutes ago, Block41 Saint said:

Can't help but think SR have made another poor manager appointment here. He's going to be under so much pressure to perform in the coming games now, which are really tough on paper. 

We are absolutely shocking off the ball under RM and the better teams in this league have exploited it. I don't understand why we continue to have a massive gap between our midfield and back four, it's allowing teams so much space to attack us. 

Last night was a really tough watch which tbh has become the norm at St. Mary's since 2017. The rot is too big. 

I'd like to see us go for a 4-2-3-1. Shea Charles has to play in midfield as our midfield looks weak as fuck when he's not there. We need to stop having KWP and Manning come into the middle when we have the ball, it leaves us so vulnerable on the wings when we lose it. 

Agree, the pressure is building but there is a good squad at St Marys and competent footballers. We've got rid of a lot of the dross.  It's been unfortunate that Jack Stephens and Bednerek have been injured at the same time and a bit concerning that RM doesn't think Holgate is up to being in central defence hence Shea did the job last night, but I agree Shea has to play in midfield.

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, kenneth_kenobi said:

Why play back to keeper from OUR match kickoff?  Immediately put us under pressure. 
Whenever we get a corner it is more likely that the opposition will score on the break against our non-defence as we NEVER score from corners. 

For my sins I watched the goal again this morning. Straight from the kick off we just played it all the way back to Bazunu in three or four passes. This can only have been a deliberate much-practised plan. Almost as though every one of our moves has to start with fiddling around at the back trying to show off.

[sfc4prem]

41 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

For my sins I watched the goal again this morning. Straight from the kick off we just played it all the way back to Bazunu in three or four passes. This can only have been a deliberate much-practised plan. Almost as though every one of our moves has to start with fiddling around at the back trying to show off.

Is our tactic to actually encourage the opposition to press high in numbers in order to make it easier to 'play through them'?!?!

Great fucking idea, that one.

[Saint_clark]

8 minutes ago, sfc4prem said:

Is our tactic to actually encourage the opposition to press high in numbers in order to make it easier to 'play through them'?!?!

Great fucking idea, that one.

It's definitely along the lines of "more opposition in our half means less opposition in their half". It's mental. 

I'd rather we have a back four that sits and a CM two that pings balls through/over the top to two wingers and forwards from a deep starting position all game. 

[the boy from saints]

22 hours ago, 6ft8saint said:

Also could st marys turn up thr singing. We were so quiet tonight. It doesn't inspire them to play better. Kameldeen tried to spur us back on after hr came on but nothing. If anything it is slightly embarrassing. Wheres the noise from the Dell gone????

It's quite difficult to create a good atmosphere if you concede a goal after 25 seconds. Kameldeen came on when we were losing 1-3 and was mainly shite.

[Osvaldorama]

15 hours ago, Kermitzasaint said:

So are we still wet wipes? Are you team wet wipe? Are you finished insulting those with different options?

Its so hard to keep up with your inconsistency 

Apologies. I had hit the 3 post limit. 
 

Also apologies for calling people wet wipes. I seriously thought that there were promising signs and something to build on. I like Martin and he speaks well. He seemed to assess the issues with our performances correctly and said he would learn. I want to be positive and back him. 
 

But yeah you were correct. Last two games have been an absolute catastrophe. I’m basically speechless at how shit we were yesterday. All of the basics of professional football are just gone. 
 

So yeah I am genuinely sorry. I still hope he can turn it around and get us playing. But I’ve never seen a more naive and shit defensive performance from a saints side - and that’s an incredible feat 

[gurru991]

6 hours ago, Galway saint said:

The last two games have been so bad they pretty much defy analysis. it’s pretty comical really having conceded 19 goals in 7 games. 

however as far as i can see martin is trying to play a brand of football that might only work if we had roberto carlos at left back and cafu at right back with kante in his prime at centre midfield. 

it’s nuts that we are trying to play a style of football that doesn’t in any way reflect the players we have. 

i’m really not sure where martin goes from here.

 

 

 

It's one the things that make me mental about football these days. All these young managers want to play like Pep but very few teams have the players to execute that style of football. Surely they need to build a team first to fit the plan rather than install a plan that doesn't fit the players.

[verlaine1979]

7 hours ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

 

Also there didn't seem to be so much tippy tappy passing sideways by the centre backs and Baz last night. There tended to be more of the Baz hoof, which to be fair to him, usually found his player.

I think that had more to do with the fact that they got caught at least 3 times in the first 18 minutes turning over the ball within 25 yards of goal, and were lucky Leicester only converted two of those chances. Not that surprising that Bazunu decided it was probably safer going long for the rest of the match.

Edited 17 September, 2023 by verlaine1979

[Smirking_Saint]

16 hours ago, OldNick said:

Good that you own up to being wrong.

As I had stated how can you win lots of games when you basically have a team of kids, who are not strong enough to stand up to the rough tough seasoned pro's we are going to face, especially in midfield. We can do it before the season really cranks up but once it does facing midfields with hardened Championship players will become impossible. I like Smallbone and noticed there was cries of we can't sell him etc etc, seems today the 7m offer from Sheff Utd was about right.

Where is that tough tackling midfielder we have been crying out for? Its almost we are in a coma and shouting at the club but can't be heard that we needed a big centre back, tough midfielder and and big centre forward. Until we see what Stewart can do the jury is out on him

I mean… lets not put words in my mouth, Im not admitting Im wrong as I don’t think I am

It was a pretty decent window with everything considered and we have one of the best squads in the division

Our issues imo are largely tactical around team shape and defensive structure, not necessarily personnel 

[david in sweden]

If we are looking for anything positive from that shambles, we can see that Bazunu was not soley responsible for those 16 goals we've concede so far.

His level of responsibility for the latest defeat may possibly stand for ..one goal (?)... whilst his several saves - and Leicester's misplaced sitters might            

easily have brought another 0-9 result.   His nervousness came mostly from the numerous back passes from the red and white statues in front of him

who were incapable of making passes upfield instead. They looked terrified after that horrific start and Vardy had a smile on his face for the whole game.

 

My MOM was Adam Armstrong - who having to live with jibes about not scoring regularly did a huge job in defending, backtracking, and even making a 

last ditch clearance that clearly should have been someone else's job, but no-one else was there. 

 

Bednarek and Stephens were heavily criticised by " some fans" on here at the start of the season, but without them we really look a very poor side.

These new talents we have may have been stars in U21 footballing circles, but are having a tough introduction into the world of " men's football ".

 

[lambtiss]

11 minutes ago, david in sweden said:

If we are looking for anything positive from that shambles, we can see that Bazunu was not soley responsible for those 16 goals we've concede so far.

His level of responsibility for the latest defeat may possibly stand for ..one goal (?)... whilst his several saves - and Leicester's misplaced sitters might            

easily have brought another 0-9 result.   His nervousness came mostly from the numerous back passes from the red and white statues in front of him

who were incapable of making passes upfield instead. They looked terrified after that horrific start and Vardy had a smile on his face for the whole game.

 

My MOM was Adam Armstrong - who having to live with jibes about not scoring regularly did a huge job in defending, backtracking, and even making a 

last ditch clearance that clearly should have been someone else's job, but no-one else was there. 

 

Bednarek and Stephens were heavily criticised by " some fans" on here at the start of the season, but without them we really look a very poor side.

These new talents we have may have been stars in U21 footballing circles, but are having a tough introduction into the world of " men's football ".

 

I agree David. I thought Bazunu had his best game for Southampton and some of his distribution was world class. We seem to be much better when he kicks long as we don't have the players with the talent to pass it comfortably along the back when they are under pressure (which they will be now that other teams have sussed his out).

[igsey]

Haven't read any of this thread but thought I would add my thought. This was my first game of the season, I went with my (Leicester-supporting) father- and sister-in-law and my (carefully bi-partisan) wife.

I actually thought a lot of our players were fine. Not good, but fine. Tactically though, we were shambolic and that's all on the manager.

We started with a back three of a kid who's been here for about two training sessions, a midfielder and a very attacking full-back, and put KWP in midfield. I'm surprised we lasted as long as we did before Leicester scored.

We lose the ball from our kick off routine, Leicester press it efficiently and score, and then from the next kick off we do... exactly the same thing?

Bazunu has obviously been told to play out from the back but there has been no thought about what to do if the opposition is pressing our defenders, which lead to 5+ occasions of "look for a short pass, hesitate, hesitate, roll it out to near Vardy, panic and hoof it long to 5ft4 Fraser". Poor tactics from Martin.

 

We looked very confused across the pitch, players didn't know where they were supposed to be, where their teammates would be, and it looked like they didn't trust each other. At multiple times, we had KWP, Edozie and Smallbone all attacking on the right wing with nobody providing any kind of option for short passes or to receive in the middle of the pitch. Poor tactics from Martin.

Our pressing was half-arsed, Leicester also wanted to play it back to their keeper and play it out from the back, but unlike our opposition, we didn't know how to press. They would wait until Adams pressed, the wingers would press wide, leaving a totally clear midfield for the keeper to play a nice simple pass to the halfway line. Either press properly or don't press at all. Poor tactics. From a Leicester free kick, we had six players pushing up around the penalty area, then an absolute gulf of empty space, then our back four. In fairness this actually worked most of the time, forced Leicester to go long and Charles was genuinely brilliant and running up into midfield and winning the headers ahead of the Leicester player. I suspect other teams will work out how to play against this very quickly though.

 

Midfield is our biggest weakness. Adam Armstrong, particularly in the first half, put in a good performance as a #8 and was literally the only player willing to run forward with the ball with any urgency. End product was still lacking though and I still don't know where his best position is, because he doesn't do anything defensively. Will Smallbone is completely pointless, does nothing, contributes nothing. Having him as the one man back from corners was ridiculous. Equally, I don't see the point of Downes, he may as well have not been there for most of the game (and did a very good impression of this every time Leicester attacked). Smallbone and Downes both have this amazing ability to watch balls be passed around them with no understanding of or care for where a pass might be going. Training cones would have been more useful.

 

Ryan Manning is a very average left-back, and the sooner Martin realises this, the better. He's not very quick, he's poor positionally, isn't very good at crossing, and doesn't get back into position quickly enough. So many of Leicester's attacks came down our left-hand side when Manning was somewhere else. I have zero idea why he was taking all our corners from the right - he's not very good at them and then when we lose the ball, he's nowhere near where he needs to be. He took one corner where all he did was roll it to Edozie! Clearly Martin wants in-swingers but sometimes you have to work with what you have, and an out-swinger from the right is going to be much less damaging than having our left-back take them.

The subs were largely fine, we had a short period where we looked quite good with Alcaraz, Sulemana, Armstrong and Adams playing nicely, with Fraser sort of shunted out to the right where he's not very effective. Aribo was dreadful though, he may as well not have a choc-ice instead of a right foot and the defenders know it.

I really hope Martin swallows his pride and learns some lessons from this. We need two centre backs at centre back. Charles must start at #6. KWP is not a midfielder. Adam Armstrong can run off the shoulder but is otherwise useless as a striker. Manning should not be taking corners (and ideally would be benched but there's not much competition there). Smallbone and Downes are the same player and both offer very little.

Ipswich next - likely to be another humbling experience.

 

[James G]

20 hours ago, Forester said:

Firstly am not going to go OTT, ten points from six games is only two behind  track and there is a long way to go.  However….….

Genuinely concerned if Martin’s view is that we ALWAYS have to line up in that formation with one holding midfielder.  Compounded with the flexibility he wants to give defenders to get forward (which I don’t dislike) we are too open.  Often last night they had four v four on us waiting for something to go wrong.

I don’t think we are far off it going forward, but rather than one holder and two attackers I would reverse that and play 4-2-1-3.  When all fit probably Downes and Charles as the 2.

The lack of tactical flexibility is an early concern for me.  I like his philosophy but any style can become predictable if not changed.

I think 4213 is a great idea.

Is it fair to say that when Saints have been ahead, they've managed the game fairly well. I think if they can figure out a way of being less risky at the start of a match and get the first goal, that may lead to better outcomes.

[saintant]

18 minutes ago, igsey said:

Haven't read any of this thread but thought I would add my thought. This was my first game of the season, I went with my (Leicester-supporting) father- and sister-in-law and my (carefully bi-partisan) wife.

I actually thought a lot of our players were fine. Not good, but fine. Tactically though, we were shambolic and that's all on the manager.

We started with a back three of a kid who's been here for about two training sessions, a midfielder and a very attacking full-back, and put KWP in midfield. I'm surprised we lasted as long as we did before Leicester scored.

We lose the ball from our kick off routine, Leicester press it efficiently and score, and then from the next kick off we do... exactly the same thing?

Bazunu has obviously been told to play out from the back but there has been no thought about what to do if the opposition is pressing our defenders, which lead to 5+ occasions of "look for a short pass, hesitate, hesitate, roll it out to near Vardy, panic and hoof it long to 5ft4 Fraser". Poor tactics from Martin.

 

We looked very confused across the pitch, players didn't know where they were supposed to be, where their teammates would be, and it looked like they didn't trust each other. At multiple times, we had KWP, Edozie and Smallbone all attacking on the right wing with nobody providing any kind of option for short passes or to receive in the middle of the pitch. Poor tactics from Martin.

Our pressing was half-arsed, Leicester also wanted to play it back to their keeper and play it out from the back, but unlike our opposition, we didn't know how to press. They would wait until Adams pressed, the wingers would press wide, leaving a totally clear midfield for the keeper to play a nice simple pass to the halfway line. Either press properly or don't press at all. Poor tactics. From a Leicester free kick, we had six players pushing up around the penalty area, then an absolute gulf of empty space, then our back four. In fairness this actually worked most of the time, forced Leicester to go long and Charles was genuinely brilliant and running up into midfield and winning the headers ahead of the Leicester player. I suspect other teams will work out how to play against this very quickly though.

 

Midfield is our biggest weakness. Adam Armstrong, particularly in the first half, put in a good performance as a #8 and was literally the only player willing to run forward with the ball with any urgency. End product was still lacking though and I still don't know where his best position is, because he doesn't do anything defensively. Will Smallbone is completely pointless, does nothing, contributes nothing. Having him as the one man back from corners was ridiculous. Equally, I don't see the point of Downes, he may as well have not been there for most of the game (and did a very good impression of this every time Leicester attacked). Smallbone and Downes both have this amazing ability to watch balls be passed around them with no understanding of or care for where a pass might be going. Training cones would have been more useful.

 

Ryan Manning is a very average left-back, and the sooner Martin realises this, the better. He's not very quick, he's poor positionally, isn't very good at crossing, and doesn't get back into position quickly enough. So many of Leicester's attacks came down our left-hand side when Manning was somewhere else. I have zero idea why he was taking all our corners from the right - he's not very good at them and then when we lose the ball, he's nowhere near where he needs to be. He took one corner where all he did was roll it to Edozie! Clearly Martin wants in-swingers but sometimes you have to work with what you have, and an out-swinger from the right is going to be much less damaging than having our left-back take them.

The subs were largely fine, we had a short period where we looked quite good with Alcaraz, Sulemana, Armstrong and Adams playing nicely, with Fraser sort of shunted out to the right where he's not very effective. Aribo was dreadful though, he may as well not have a choc-ice instead of a right foot and the defenders know it.

I really hope Martin swallows his pride and learns some lessons from this. We need two centre backs at centre back. Charles must start at #6. KWP is not a midfielder. Adam Armstrong can run off the shoulder but is otherwise useless as a striker. Manning should not be taking corners (and ideally would be benched but there's not much competition there). Smallbone and Downes are the same player and both offer very little.

Ipswich next - likely to be another humbling experience.

 

KWP is not playing midfield he is trying to play the inverted fullback role which involves him moving into midfield. The problem is he does not seem to know how to do it. Either we coach our fullbacks to play the inverted role correctly pretty damn quickly or we abandon it and use them as traditional fullbacks with more emphasis on defending than attacking. The way we are leaking goals I think we need to go for the latter option.

[hypochondriac]

7 hours ago, saintant said:

KWP is not playing midfield he is trying to play the inverted fullback role which involves him moving into midfield. The problem is he does not seem to know how to do it. Either we coach our fullbacks to play the inverted role correctly pretty damn quickly or we abandon it and use them as traditional fullbacks with more emphasis on defending than attacking. The way we are leaking goals I think we need to go for the latter option.

Should be the latter option 100%. If we did that, played Charles as a dm, sorted out the stupid leaving no one back at corners then that's the majority of problems solved. 

[DT]

On 12/09/2023 at 12:46, DT said:

Fair chance we get no points from this one and Ipswich. Will be all doom and gloom on here, but both will be up there at the end of the season. Personally think we'll still be mid-table at the end as we ship too many goals and feels almost in the DNA now. Said this at start of season and only getting a good experienced keeper in will make a difference. Bazanu cost us relegation last season and will cost us promotion this. Hey ho.

50% complete

[OldNick]

On 17/09/2023 at 07:26, Smirking_Saint said:

I mean… lets not put words in my mouth, Im not admitting Im wrong as I don’t think I am

It was a pretty decent window with everything considered and we have one of the best squads in the division

Our issues imo are largely tactical around team shape and defensive structure, not necessarily personnel 

Ok, I don't mind if you think you are right or wrong as we all have opinions.

Personally, I dont think we do have one of the best squads as they are not tailored to fit this league IMO. We may have plenty of promising youngsters but hardly a team that is strong. I read last season that our squad was full of talent, where did that get us. 

Some of our fanbase has an arrogance that we are all conquering, the last 2 games have tempered that a bit, luckily.

I'm not sure it was a decent window as are we really strong enough in the midfield? Until Ive seen Stewart play I reserve judgement, I also feel we are a small side, Leicester underlined this with their strong runners.

[OldNick]

On 17/09/2023 at 11:28, igsey said:

Haven't read any of this thread but thought I would add my thought. This was my first game of the season, I went with my (Leicester-supporting) father- and sister-in-law and my (carefully bi-partisan) wife.

I actually thought a lot of our players were fine. Not good, but fine. Tactically though, we were shambolic and that's all on the manager.

We started with a back three of a kid who's been here for about two training sessions, a midfielder and a very attacking full-back, and put KWP in midfield. I'm surprised we lasted as long as we did before Leicester scored.

We lose the ball from our kick off routine, Leicester press it efficiently and score, and then from the next kick off we do... exactly the same thing?

Bazunu has obviously been told to play out from the back but there has been no thought about what to do if the opposition is pressing our defenders, which lead to 5+ occasions of "look for a short pass, hesitate, hesitate, roll it out to near Vardy, panic and hoof it long to 5ft4 Fraser". Poor tactics from Martin.

 

We looked very confused across the pitch, players didn't know where they were supposed to be, where their teammates would be, and it looked like they didn't trust each other. At multiple times, we had KWP, Edozie and Smallbone all attacking on the right wing with nobody providing any kind of option for short passes or to receive in the middle of the pitch. Poor tactics from Martin.

Our pressing was half-arsed, Leicester also wanted to play it back to their keeper and play it out from the back, but unlike our opposition, we didn't know how to press. They would wait until Adams pressed, the wingers would press wide, leaving a totally clear midfield for the keeper to play a nice simple pass to the halfway line. Either press properly or don't press at all. Poor tactics. From a Leicester free kick, we had six players pushing up around the penalty area, then an absolute gulf of empty space, then our back four. In fairness this actually worked most of the time, forced Leicester to go long and Charles was genuinely brilliant and running up into midfield and winning the headers ahead of the Leicester player. I suspect other teams will work out how to play against this very quickly though.

 

Midfield is our biggest weakness. Adam Armstrong, particularly in the first half, put in a good performance as a #8 and was literally the only player willing to run forward with the ball with any urgency. End product was still lacking though and I still don't know where his best position is, because he doesn't do anything defensively. Will Smallbone is completely pointless, does nothing, contributes nothing. Having him as the one man back from corners was ridiculous. Equally, I don't see the point of Downes, he may as well have not been there for most of the game (and did a very good impression of this every time Leicester attacked). Smallbone and Downes both have this amazing ability to watch balls be passed around them with no understanding of or care for where a pass might be going. Training cones would have been more useful.

 

Ryan Manning is a very average left-back, and the sooner Martin realises this, the better. He's not very quick, he's poor positionally, isn't very good at crossing, and doesn't get back into position quickly enough. So many of Leicester's attacks came down our left-hand side when Manning was somewhere else. I have zero idea why he was taking all our corners from the right - he's not very good at them and then when we lose the ball, he's nowhere near where he needs to be. He took one corner where all he did was roll it to Edozie! Clearly Martin wants in-swingers but sometimes you have to work with what you have, and an out-swinger from the right is going to be much less damaging than having our left-back take them.

The subs were largely fine, we had a short period where we looked quite good with Alcaraz, Sulemana, Armstrong and Adams playing nicely, with Fraser sort of shunted out to the right where he's not very effective. Aribo was dreadful though, he may as well not have a choc-ice instead of a right foot and the defenders know it.

I really hope Martin swallows his pride and learns some lessons from this. We need two centre backs at centre back. Charles must start at #6. KWP is not a midfielder. Adam Armstrong can run off the shoulder but is otherwise useless as a striker. Manning should not be taking corners (and ideally would be benched but there's not much competition there). Smallbone and Downes are the same player and both offer very little.

Ipswich next - likely to be another humbling experience.

 

Manning has been our main player giving assists, so I dont agree with you about crossing, corners etc. Amazing how Small bone was a 'must keep' a few weeks ago, there was a sort of meltdown when it seemed he may go and now those people have melted away and all of a sudden he's a duff.