Sunderland 5-0 Southampton

[Jimbo]

16 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I think he must have been taught to go down with his hands. He is very agile but not strong enough.

agile as a cat at jumping out of the way of it when he could just stick his foot out and save it.  Forster saves that first goal.

[trousers]

3 minutes ago, captainchris said:

This is squarely on Martin’s shoulders. Bizarre team selection with unfit and out of practice players picked when they are not ready I play. Bizarre to pick AA up front, everyone knows he is shite there except Martin it seems.

If you'd posted this before the game we'd now be hailing you as a footballing genius...

[Kermitzasaint]

A great coach improves his players. Who can improve a limited coach though?

Martin is known for being hopeless defensively. We scraped through and gained points whilst playing poorly. 

 

[sambosa75]

Hopefully this result will stop the backslapping that seems to follow Martin around for his toothless “brand” of football.  Absolutely no point popping the ball around if you have no cutting edge with it, are an organisational shambles at the back and have a keeper who seems to shit himself anytime the ball comes in his general direction.

[JRM]

1 hour ago, BotleySaint said:

If Bazunu starts after conceding this many goals so far in the season then you've got to wonder if he'll ever be dropped. 

I think back to the fans forum when a perfectly good question was asked about the weakness of the spine of the team to be addressed starting with the goal keeper, rather than respond calmly Martin launched into an unnecessary long defence of Bazunu showering him with praise, definitely felt like a case of "the lady doth protest too much" , deep down Martin knows Baz is a fucking liability who let's a high percentage of shots on target in.  We're handicapped as a team because of this and will concede far too many over the course of the season

Don't want to see Holgate again either, dreadful player. 

Players and manager should beg forgiveness of the travelling fans, many left at 3am this morning, absolute shite performance to serve up 

Edited 2 September, 2023 by JRM

[mitch01]

Bazunu should have saved the third goal but that was not close to being the problem today. Very bad from a lot of players. Don't understand keeping Mara around when we were signing Stewart, or playing him wide. Holgate had a very tricky start. But the main concern for me was how open we looked in midfield, despite having three very decent players in there.

 

Lots of work to be done on the training field. Good on you to the fans who travelled up.

[captainchris]

16 minutes ago, trousers said:

If you'd posted this before the game we'd now be hailing you as a footballing genius...

I have been ! 

[JRM]

5 minutes ago, mitch01 said:

Bazunu should have saved the third goal but that was not close to being the problem today. Very bad from a lot of players. Don't understand keeping Mara around when we were signing Stewart, or playing him wide. Holgate had a very tricky start. But the main concern for me was how open we looked in midfield, despite having three very decent players in there.

 

Lots of work to be done on the training field. Good on you to the fans who travelled up.

Yep seeing Mara's name in the starting line up was worrying and he didn't do anything to change that, shame we're start with him and Tall Paul wages still, just wasted money 

[saintant]

4 minutes ago, mitch01 said:

Bazunu should have saved the third goal but that was not close to being the problem today. Very bad from a lot of players. Don't understand keeping Mara around when we were signing Stewart, or playing him wide. Holgate had a very tricky start. But the main concern for me was how open we looked in midfield, despite having three very decent players in there.

 

Lots of work to be done on the training field. Good on you to the fans who travelled up.

Charles needs to start in midfield probably in place of Smallbone who seemed to just get in the way of allowing Downes to do his job. Charles is young but has physicality and power which is severely lacking when he doesn't play. He's also dangerous from corners and set pieces.

[Saint NL]

 

😥

[Vancouver Saint]

OMG what happened? Glad I didn't even attempt to wake up at 4.30am to watch a crappy livestream. Had a feeling we might get a wake-up call with this game but never in a million years a 5-0 drubbing.

Saw we had 68% possession though!

Hopefully the only wake-up call we need...

 

[Chez]

We get smashed 5-0 and it could have been more, but typically a lot of the posts are about Baz. Compared to Holgate, he had a great game.

The focus imo should be on the tactics and whether playing this way will pay off in the long run. It was painful to watch today and spending all that effort just to get the ball between their strikers and midfield simply does not look worth it.

[Galway saint]

Just got back. Absolutely abysmal and in no particular order :

1. shocking debut from holgate. Self evident why he couldn’t get in a poor Everton team. 
 

2.  The slow aimless passing at the back is not providing control and it just allows the opposition to reset. We have to be able to mix it up and move at pace but it so often appeared to be on the edge of calamity. To have some much possession yet to concede 5 goals is proof that it’s not working.

3. Martin should watch the next game from the stands so he can see how easily we are caught out up field when the opposition win back the ball. It was embarrassing as two or three passes and they were through us. Need to play Charles as a holding player.
 

4. Defensively we were shambolic. I’m hoping that was down to holgate and he won’t play much again but it was amateurish. I didn’t understand why when holgate went off we ended up with Charles at RB, and Manning on the left of centre. 

5 Mara was hopeless and contributed nothing. However surely better to play him as CF if you are going to play him as AA is not productive there.

5 Bazanu should have saved a couple but we know his fallibilities and the club have chosen to ignore it for now. However whilst he cost us a couple of goals I put the blame for the defeat squarely on the manager. Totally outthought by Mowbray.

6. Thought KWP was the only one to come out with any credit.

We’ve no played 5 and conceded 4 and 5 in two of those so that tells its own story.

 

[Farmer Saint]

This league is fucking mental though. 

Leicester losing at home to Hull

Norwich losing away at Rotherham

Leeds drawing at home to Sheff Wed

Boro losing at home to QPR

Plymouth hammering Blackburn

Edited 2 September, 2023 by Farmer Saint

[kenneth_kenobi]

Hope the club read these posts. We have no idea how to break down an organised defence. 70% possession all backwards and 2 shots for the match is embarrassing. Sunderland looked like scoring every time they broke. Smallbone did nothing except 5 yard passes backwards. Holgate looked like he had not played for ages, and gave them the 3rd. Why do we never contest crosses?. The most dangerous we looked was when Alcarez came on as he ran and passed.  Woeful. Fans excellent as usual, outsinging 40,000 locals to the end.   

Edited 2 September, 2023 by kenneth_kenobi

[kenneth_kenobi]

2 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

This league is fucking mental though. 

Leicester losing at home to Hull

Norwich losing away at Rotherham

Leeds drawing at home to Sheff Wed

Boro losing at home to QPR

Plymouth hammering Blackburn

Carrick out 🤣🤣🤣

[Challenger]

8 minutes ago, Galway saint said:

Just got back. Absolutely abysmal and in no particular order :

1. shocking debut from holgate. Self evident why he couldn’t get in a poor Everton team. 
 

2.  The slow aimless passing at the back is not providing control and it just allows the opposition to reset. We have to be able to mix it up and move at pace but it so often appeared to be on the edge of calamity. To have some much possession yet to concede 5 goals is proof that it’s not working.

3. Martin should watch the next game from the stands so he can see how easily we are caught out up field when the opposition win back the ball. It was embarrassing as two or three passes and they were through us. Need to play Charles as a holding player.
 

4. Defensively we were shambolic. I’m hoping that was down to holgate and he won’t play much again but it was amateurish. I didn’t understand why when holgate went off we ended up with Charles at RB, and Manning on the left of centre. 

5 Mara was hopeless and contributed nothing. However surely better to play him as CF if you are going to play him as AA is not productive there.

5 Bazanu should have saved a couple but we know his fallibilities and the club have chosen to ignore it for now. However whilst he cost us a couple of goals I put the blame for the defeat squarely on the manager. Totally outthought by Mowbray.

6. Thought KWP was the only one to come out with any credit.

We’ve no played 5 and conceded 4 and 5 in two of those so that tells its own story.

 

Post of the day.

Why the club advocates this type of football is beyond reason.

[Farmer Saint]

6 minutes ago, kenneth_kenobi said:

Carrick out 🤣🤣🤣

Exactly - loads of people wanted him here. His stock is falling massively. 

[Dr Who?]

Well it started well, me and the boys met Le Tissier. Such a nice person. I said I was sorry to disturb him, and he said ‘take a seat’ talked to him for a couple of minutes and then took photos. 

Then the match, well what’s to say? We play so laboured, yes we knock it around nicely and keep the ball for long periods of time, but where is the injection and urgency. Because we play so laboured in possession, when we lose the ball, we are not fully on it and defend sluggishly. At this level you need to be up and at them at all times, like we were the first half against Wednesday. We played nice football but ran at them and were more direct. 

All in it was a very unprofessional game we played and defensively we were shocking, and gave the ball away in really bad positions. It’s sure a big wake up call. 

[Saint NL]

Even after the result today, I'm still enjoying the Championship. The results are random, anything can happen and it's a far cry from the predictable nonsense we saw last season. 

 

 

[saintant]

1 minute ago, Saint NL said:

Even after the result today, I'm still enjoying the Championship. The results are random, anything can happen and it's a far cry from the predictable nonsense we saw last season. 

 

 

I thought today looked very much like a re-run of what we saw last season - hardly a far cry from it.

[BotleySaint]

 

The other results today makes this one feel slightly better.

[Saint Matty 76]

It may sound a bit ridiculous in the scheme of what happened but I'd much rather the referee miss an obvious call against us like the Manning penalty decision than have to wait minutes to watch VAR fuck up the Ake header at City. I can handle somebody making a mistake in real time, but I can't be fucked in having to sit around waiting for them to still make the mistake.

Anyway, Leicester lose at home and Leeds draw at home, could've been a worse weekend overall.

[InvictaSaint]

With all we knew we would go through before the close of the transfer window, would we have taken 2 points off the auto places at the start of the season?

[Micky]

27 minutes ago, Galway saint said:

Just got back. Absolutely abysmal and in no particular order :

1. shocking debut from holgate. Self evident why he couldn’t get in a poor Everton team. 
 

2.  The slow aimless passing at the back is not providing control and it just allows the opposition to reset. We have to be able to mix it up and move at pace but it so often appeared to be on the edge of calamity. To have some much possession yet to concede 5 goals is proof that it’s not working.

3. Martin should watch the next game from the stands so he can see how easily we are caught out up field when the opposition win back the ball. It was embarrassing as two or three passes and they were through us. Need to play Charles as a holding player.
 

4. Defensively we were shambolic. I’m hoping that was down to holgate and he won’t play much again but it was amateurish. I didn’t understand why when holgate went off we ended up with Charles at RB, and Manning on the left of centre. 

5 Mara was hopeless and contributed nothing. However surely better to play him as CF if you are going to play him as AA is not productive there.

5 Bazanu should have saved a couple but we know his fallibilities and the club have chosen to ignore it for now. However whilst he cost us a couple of goals I put the blame for the defeat squarely on the manager. Totally outthought by Mowbray.

6. Thought KWP was the only one to come out with any credit.

We’ve no played 5 and conceded 4 and 5 in two of those so that tells its own story.

 

This.  100% this. Having the ball is absolutely pointless if you have no idea what to do with it, and we patently don't.   This manager needs to learn really quickly that goals win games, not possession.   Not only that,  but we are going to need quite a lot of goals given our woeful defence and Bazes inability to save very much that is hit at him.  Woeful performance, the manager and players need to take a long hard look at themselves after that clusterfuck.  WEll done to the travelling fans, came over loud and clear on sky, the one and only positive from SFC today.  Crap. 

Edited 2 September, 2023 by Micky

[saintant]

Just now, Saint Matty 76 said:

It may sound a bit ridiculous in the scheme of what happened but I'd much rather the referee miss an obvious call against us like the Manning penalty decision than have to wait minutes to watch VAR fuck up the Ake header at City. I can handle somebody making a mistake in real time, but I can't be fucked in having to sit around waiting for them to still make the mistake.

Anyway, Leicester lose at home and Leeds draw at home, could've been a worse weekend overall.

Yes but clearly they aren't the only two sides we're competing against. The Championship could well be far closer than many thought with numerous teams making a run for promotion. Who'd have thought Preston would be top, or we'd be getting hammered at Sunderland or Leicester would be losing at home to Hull? I'm certainly changing my mind on how it is likely to pan out - from what I've seen so far it's all to play for with a very open field.

[ally_uk]

Just seen the score fack me! I assume Holgate played a blinder then... 

[saintant]

2 minutes ago, InvictaSaint said:

With all we knew we would go through before the close of the transfer window, would we have taken 2 points off the auto places at the start of the season?

Yes but without today's 5-0 mauling which has set alarm bells clanging.

[Dr Who?]

As I said. It was a nice start to the day, until kick off. 

[saintant]

Just now, ally_uk said:

Just seen the score fack me! I assume Holgate played a blinder then... 

He was worse than the worst you could ever imagine.

[hasper57saint]

1 hour ago, Challenger said:

The possession based crab football was the undoing in the Prem and it's now been sussed out in this league.

We seem to recruit specifically ( on and off the pitch )for a system that opponents counter with ease.

I thought that when JWP left the ‘crab’ would cease. Today proves me wrong. We are a complete and utter shambles and I really do feel for our travelling supporters. They should get a refund from the so-called players.

[East Kent Saint]

1 hour ago, OttawaSaint said:

Haven't seen it yet. Most are hits post, hits goalie goes in. There's no way in hell Baz would have saved the late chances. 

That’s what happened apparently !

[Holmes_and_Watson]

2 hours ago, Saint NL said:

"If you don't want to run" - who is he talking about? Thats a pretty bad thing to say about a player on your team

Aribo gets a pass there. He can't run. 🙂

[SaintJackoInHurworth]

36 minutes ago, Galway saint said:

Just got back. Absolutely abysmal and in no particular order :

1. shocking debut from holgate. Self evident why he couldn’t get in a poor Everton team. 
 

2.  The slow aimless passing at the back is not providing control and it just allows the opposition to reset. We have to be able to mix it up and move at pace but it so often appeared to be on the edge of calamity. To have some much possession yet to concede 5 goals is proof that it’s not working.

3. Martin should watch the next game from the stands so he can see how easily we are caught out up field when the opposition win back the ball. It was embarrassing as two or three passes and they were through us. Need to play Charles as a holding player.
 

4. Defensively we were shambolic. I’m hoping that was down to holgate and he won’t play much again but it was amateurish. I didn’t understand why when holgate went off we ended up with Charles at RB, and Manning on the left of centre. 

5 Mara was hopeless and contributed nothing. However surely better to play him as CF if you are going to play him as AA is not productive there.

5 Bazanu should have saved a couple but we know his fallibilities and the club have chosen to ignore it for now. However whilst he cost us a couple of goals I put the blame for the defeat squarely on the manager. Totally outthought by Mowbray.

6. Thought KWP was the only one to come out with any credit.

We’ve no played 5 and conceded 4 and 5 in two of those so that tells its own story.

 

Agree with so much of this:

Holgate was dreadful and Martin has got to up his managerial game or he will become our next managerial casualty! Just to illustrate how badly he cocked it up, this is how we lined up at the end of the game in comparison to each players 'normal position':

Player        Normal Pos    Final Pos today

Bazunu      GK                   GK
Charles      CDM               RB
KWP           RB                   LB
Bednarek   RCB                RCB
Manning     LB                   LCB
Downes     CM                  CDM
Alcaraz      AM                   CM
Arma          CF                    AM
Fraser        RW                   LW
Aribo          AM                   RW
Adams        CF                   CF

I fully understand that some players like Arma may be better playing in a different position and others, like KWP and Charles, are good in their alternative position, but having 8 out of 11 players in a different position is absolutely crazy.

One other comment I feel I have to make is that Downes is better as a CM/Box-to-Box player like Smallbone than in the CDM/holding player position. Downes did not close the space or provide an effective outlet from the defence. This contributed to the openness of our midfield and the ease with which they were able to cut through us.

Our only natural CDM is actually Shea Charles and I think he needs to be given the chance to claim that position as his own. Yet, even with the players that started, it seems that Martin would have been better swapping Smallbone and Downes around. Smallbone strikes me as the better tackler and the one who has more nouse to create the space to link up play with the defence to get the ball out.

[JRM]

32 minutes ago, InvictaSaint said:

With all we knew we would go through before the close of the transfer window, would we have taken 2 points off the auto places at the start of the season?

Fair play to Preston and Ipswich 

Assume we have comfortably the worst goals conceded record? 

[Convict Colony]

I would rather get spanked before the break when we can work on it rather during the run of tough games after

[derry]

Watching the general play, a lot of the possession was aimless. I got the impression a lot of the players don't understand that the only way to win is score goals and prevent them at the other end. It looked like it wasn't passing to get goals but a game played without goals. Receive the ball, unload it then do it again. That doesn't cut it. First of all we need pace. Sulemana and Frazer, Until Stewart is fit, Adams up front, Alcaraz or one of the Armstrongs behind. Downes and Charles holding, THB and Bednarek with KWP and Manning playing like full backs. It was disgraceful that the only player tracking Clarke after the corner down our right sde was our left winger Edozie. That was KWP's responsibility. That together with the fact that he and Manning were coming inside exposing us down the touchlines where they murdered us and worse still had planned to play that way. Out thought, outplayed with 32% possession, totally exposed and gave the ball away for at least four goals.

Edited 2 September, 2023 by derry

[AlexLaw76]

if the other team does not have the ball, they dont score...right?

[Lee On Solent Saint]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

if the other team does not have the ball, they dont score...right?

But if we have the ball we don't score either

[Bad Wolf]

Has Russell actually spoken since?

[kenneth_kenobi]

43 minutes ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

It may sound a bit ridiculous in the scheme of what happened but I'd much rather the referee miss an obvious call against us like the Manning penalty decision than have to wait minutes to watch VAR fuck up the Ake header at City. I can handle somebody making a mistake in real time, but I can't be fucked in having to sit around waiting for them to still make the mistake.

Anyway, Leicester lose at home and Leeds draw at home, could've been a worse weekend overall.

Agree on that, but so annoying that piddly things got yellows, but rugby tackling to the ground multiple times by Sunderland not penalised. 

[Roo1976]

39 minutes ago, Dr Who? said:

Well it started well, me and the boys met Le Tissier. Such a nice person. I said I was sorry to disturb him, and he said ‘take a seat’ talked to him for a couple of minutes and then took photos. 

Then the match, well what’s to say? We play so laboured, yes we knock it around nicely and keep the ball for long periods of time, but where is the injection and urgency. Because we play so laboured in possession, when we lose the ball, we are not fully on it and defend sluggishly. At this level you need to be up and at them at all times, like we were the first half against Wednesday. We played nice football but ran at them and were more direct. 

All in it was a very unprofessional game we played and defensively we were shocking, and gave the ball away in really bad positions. It’s sure a big wake up call. 

Weren't we warned about all you've just pointed out, by the Swansea fans that had to endure this?  ponderous play yet again,looks good but no end product AGAIN. I cant see what they see when we play .I hope this is just a blip,but as previous posts have said and ive read many with the same thread,we look so shacky when we loose the ball, and then panic sets in trying to defend.Same has been said time and time again over the last 2/3 seasons. Spin of the midfield has to be stronger than we have sadly,Smallbone way too lightweight,needs to be more creative but sadly not. Why didnt Alcaraz start instead? .Like most we need to identify our strongest team and stick with it,then tinker with that instead of trying to be too cute and out smart a seasoned manager in Mowbray. At halftime Sunderland didnt need to do anything as we played the self distruct playbook for them ,they only needed to pick us off when we were sloppy in ponderous play.BIG WAKE UP CALL for all involved and we need to sort out the fucking shambles that we call defending.

[Convict Colony]

4 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Has Russell actually spoken since?

RUSSELL Martin hopes that Saints' 5-0 defeat to Sunderland, which ended their unbeaten start to the Championship, will be the wake-up call his players need.

 

Bradley Dack put the Black Cats four goals ahead just after the break, taking the Saturday lunchtime kickoff out of Saints' reach.

Gavin Bazunu pulled off some important saves to prevent Sunderland from adding to their lead before 16 year old Chris Rigg rounded off the game with his first senior league goal.

Despite making a fast start to life back in the second tier, earning 10 points from their first four games, Martin has repeatedly pointed out his dissatisfaction with the performances against Plymouth and QPR.

 

Speaking to Sky Sports immediately after his first league loss as Saints manager, Martin continued that message, saying: “It was deserved.

"To start the game so poorly makes it difficult, but our reaction to the dissapointment or to defend in the final third, all the stuff we had worked on, (wasn’t good enough.)

 

“Sunderland just fought more. They came out of every single duel with the ball pretty much and had much more willingness than us to run when out of possession.

“I said before the game that we have so much to improve on amidst all the noise and the chaos of the last 10 days - late last night two of the players thought they were moving but they didn’t.

“But that’s not an excuse when you step onto the pitch, especially here. The game plan goes out of the window a little bit when you go 2-0 down.

“I think the fifth goal sums us up, we let the guy do three turns in our half with no contact at all. He crosses it and they score.

"I don’t think that happens if one of our players does that, I’m pretty sure one of our players ends up on the floor from a Sunderland player.

"The mentality was a big problem today. "However good you are on the ball, if you don’t want to run it’s a big problem.

 

“I told the players that we need to make sure that this is a hugely important day for us in terms of understanding what the Championship is all about.

"It’s important for me not to overreact with all the hurt, your ego is dented when you get beat and it’s on the TV."

[Chez]

20 minutes ago, SaintJackoInHurworth said:

Agree with so much of this:

Holgate was dreadful and Martin has got to up his managerial game or he will become our next managerial casualty! Just to illustrate how badly he cocked it up, this is how we lined up at the end of the game in comparison to each players 'normal position':

Player        Normal Pos    Final Pos today

Bazunu      GK                   GK
Charles      CDM               RB
KWP           RB                   LB
Bednarek   RCB                RCB
Manning     LB                   LCB
Downes     CM                  CDM
Alcaraz      AM                   CM
Arma          CF                    AM
Fraser        RW                   LW
Aribo          AM                   RW
Adams        CF                   CF

I fully understand that some players like Arma may be better playing in a different position and others, like KWP and Charles, are good in their alternative position, but having 8 out of 11 players in a different position is absolutely crazy.

One other comment I feel I have to make is that Downes is better as a CM/Box-to-Box player like Smallbone than in the CDM/holding player position. Downes did not close the space or provide an effective outlet from the defence. This contributed to the openness of our midfield and the ease with which they were able to cut through us.

Our only natural CDM is actually Shea Charles and I think he needs to be given the chance to claim that position as his own. Yet, even with the players that started, it seems that Martin would have been better swapping Smallbone and Downes around. Smallbone strikes me as the better tackler and the one who has more nouse to create the space to link up play with the defence to get the ball out.

I'm with you. Not sure I fully understand why so many players are/were played out of position, but Fraser is a left winger.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Holgate clearly pony, but he shouldn’t have been playing, chucked under a bus by the manager. I thought he said it would take players a while to get used to his unique brand of football, so therefore why the fuck didn’t he continue with the centre half pairing that finished the QPR game. 
 

Baz is clearly pony, he’s going to cost is far more points with his Julian Clary wrists than he’ll gain us with his Hoddlesque distribution. 
 

What worries me is Sunderland laid down the blueprint of how to beat us, and we’ll just continue to play the same way. 
 

The only bloke who can look himself in the mirror tonight  is KWP.
 

 

[AlexLaw76]

25 minutes ago, SaintJackoInHurworth said:

Agree with so much of this:

Holgate was dreadful and Martin has got to up his managerial game or he will become our next managerial casualty! Just to illustrate how badly he cocked it up, this is how we lined up at the end of the game in comparison to each players 'normal position':

Player        Normal Pos    Final Pos today

Bazunu      GK                   GK
Charles      CDM               RB
KWP           RB                   LB
Bednarek   RCB                RCB
Manning     LB                   LCB
Downes     CM                  CDM
Alcaraz      AM                   CM
Arma          CF                    AM
Fraser        RW                   LW
Aribo          AM                   RW
Adams        CF                   CF

I fully understand that some players like Arma may be better playing in a different position and others, like KWP and Charles, are good in their alternative position, but having 8 out of 11 players in a different position is absolutely crazy.

One other comment I feel I have to make is that Downes is better as a CM/Box-to-Box player like Smallbone than in the CDM/holding player position. Downes did not close the space or provide an effective outlet from the defence. This contributed to the openness of our midfield and the ease with which they were able to cut through us.

Our only natural CDM is actually Shea Charles and I think he needs to be given the chance to claim that position as his own. Yet, even with the players that started, it seems that Martin would have been better swapping Smallbone and Downes around. Smallbone strikes me as the better tackler and the one who has more nouse to create the space to link up play with the defence to get the ball out.

We have plenty of players to not actually need to do this.

[adrian lord]

1. Defensive players were repeatedly nowhere near their man or, if in the same postcode, were on the wrong side. 
2. As Martin has seemingly identified, there was a distinct lack of running (code for poor attitude and motivation)

[Chewy]

Can’t add a great deal to what’s been said.

I won’t write a player off totally in 60 minutes, but as bad a debut as I can remember. 
Jan was poor

Manning was poor.

KWP was motm (maybe 6.5 out of 10?)

Charles did well when coming on, really like the look of him

Smallbone and Downes are too similar, got in each others way and were far too easily by-passed. I’ve been impressed by both so far this season - they were woeful today

Stu was anonymous 

Edozie was quiet going forward and is a liability going back. It’s forgivable when you’re being productive as he has been lately, but he wasn’t today. So just a liability, then.

Same could be said for Mara, except he’s never been productive going forward. Might be capable of doing a job up front, but a total waste of space out wide. He shouldn’t have started the first half, got booked and so absolutely definitely shouldn’t have started the second. The fact he did concerns me.

ArmA can’t be a lone striker. Still.

Bazunu. Um … yeah, not great. The 3rd was mostly his fault and the 5th was somewhat. It didn’t cost us the game, but it certainly didn’t help.

Subs confused me today, but the game was over by half time anyway.

Tactically I think the issues are very similar to last week. Need a proper number 9, not ArmA. Can understand that Che wasn’t mentally right but if you’re dumb enough to play Mara, at least do it up top.
We’re easy to attack because our full backs have huge holes behind them and no protection from the wingers who can’t/won’t track back. That element is identical to last week and needs addressing. If I can see it I’m damn sure every analyst at every other championship side can see it.
And the midfield balance is wrong. It was actually different today with two passing 6s and only one 8/10. Smallbone was meant to be inside right as an 8 but didn’t do this properly so we ended up with two identical players doing the same job. Neither are great at tackling so we were so easy to play through. It also meant we lost creativity going forward so we had three midfielders creating little, protecting little, but retaining possession. Great.

I’m certainly not going to knock possession football but we have to a) move it quicker, b) protect ourselves from losing the ball with some cover and c) offer a cutting edge. Personally I think Charles needs to start as the base to add protection and then work from there. And if you partner him with a passing 6 and only have one 8/10, please make sure your wingers can pose a threat and beat a man, rather than vaguely move around like Mara.

Overall then I’m obviously bitterly disappointed. It’s very early days, and we only found out our squad for the season late last night so I don’t expect us to be anywhere near the finished article. But there are some obvious tactical issues plus some obvious weak spots that need addressing quickly. I also think we’re a little arrogant thinking our possession makes us somehow better. Losing 5-0 suggests it doesn’t. To that end, having our ego dented (manager included) might do us some good.

We now have a good two weeks to get to work which is great news for all concerned, and the next couple of games will be a better point to start assessing and judging things. 

 

Edited 2 September, 2023 by Chewy
Spelling/ typing

[Chez]

4 minutes ago, adrian lord said:

1. Defensive players were repeatedly nowhere near their man or, if in the same postcode, were on the wrong side. 
2. As Martin has seemingly identified, there was a distinct lack of running (code for poor attitude and motivation)

The marking and tracking is woeful. However, I would say that defenders were constantly being asked to cover gaps caused by others losing the ball up field and having men beyond the ball, to defend facing their own goal and cover more than one man due to wingers not tracking all the way back. There's big gaps, wide open spaces, not enough cover and lots of one on ones.

I'm all for possession based football, but we seem obsessed with working the ball slowly through the middle. Twenty passes to get the ball just ten yards forward seems excessive. Is it even necessary at this level? I understand the benefit of getting between the lines, but we seem to make bloody hard work of doing it.

[Chez]

17 minutes ago, Chewy said:

Can’t add a great deal to what’s been said.

I won’t write a player off totally in 60 minutes, but as bad a debut as I can remember. 
Jan was poor

Manning was poor.

KWP was motm (maybe 6.5 out of 10?)

Charles did well when coming on, really like the look of him

Smallbone and Downes are too similar, got in each others way and were far too easily by-passed. I’ve been impressed by both so far this season - they were woeful today

Stu was anonymous 

Edozie was quiet going forward and is a liability going back. It’s forgivable when you’re being productive as he has been lately, but he wasn’t today. So just a liability, then.

Same could be said for Mara, except he’s never been productive going forward. Might be capable of doing a job up front, but a total waste of space out wide. He shouldn’t have started the first half, got booked and so absolutely definitely shouldn’t have started the second. The fact he did concerns me.

ArmA can’t be a line striker. Still.

Bazunu. Um … yeah, not great. The 3rd was mostly his fault and the 5th was somewhat. It didn’t cost us the game, but it certainly didn’t help.

Subs confused me today, but the game was over by half time anyway.

Tactically I think the issues are very similar to last week. Need a proper number 9, not ArmA. Can understand that Che wasn’t mentally right but if you’re dumb enough to play Mara, at least do it up top.
We’re easy to attack because our full backs have huge holes behind them and no protection from the wingers who can’t/won’t track back. That element is identical to last week and needs addressing. If I can see it I’m damn sure every analyst at every other championship side can see it.
And the midfield balance is wrong. It was actually different today with two passing 6s and only one 8/10. Smallbone was meant to be inside right as an 8 but didn’t do this properly so we ended up with two identical players doing the same job. Neither are great at tackling so we were so easy to play through. It also meant we lost creativity going forward so we had three midfielders creating little, protecting little, but retaining possession. Great.

I’m certainly not going to knock possession football but we have to a) move it quicker, b) protect ourselves from losing the ball with some cover and c) offer a cutting edge. Personally I think Charles needs to start as the base to add protection and then work from there. And if you partner him with a passing 6 and only have one 8/10, please make sure your wingers can pose a threat and beat a man, rather than vaguely move around like Mara.

Overall then I’m obviously bitterly disappointed. It’s very early days, and we only found out our squad for the season late last night so I don’t expect us to be anywhere near the finished article. But there are some obvious tactical issues plus some obvious weak spots that need addressing quickly. I also think we’re a little arrogant thinking our possession makes us somehow better. Losing 5-0 suggests it doesn’t. To that end, having our ego dented (manager included) might do us some good.

We now have a good two weeks to get to work which is great news for all concerned, and the next couple of games will be a better point to start assessing and judging things. 

 

decent post. Glad you only gave a 6.5 for MoTM as KWP was only OK. I don't understand why he is being asked to play so much in midfield. He isn't right for that role.