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Mason Greenwood would you take him?

Streaky

By Streaky,
in The Saints

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imadirtyurchin

imadirtyurchin

Posted
Posted (edited)

Absolutely not at our club. Just not the attention or noise we need. Plus too many question marks about his character. I couldn’t in good conscience cheer him. 

He needs to go abroad somewhere and play where the case wasn’t so high profile - earn a living there. He might have to accept that his days of earning a top wage, at a top club, in the spotlight is over. Unless there is a public airing of the new evidence that demonstrates that the images and audio wasn’t what it appeared to be. I think he’s too “damaged goods” in the public perception to be in the spotlight in this country without loads of discourse.

 

Edited by imadirtyurchin
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Colinjb

Colinjb

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I'm in two minds on this. By very nature this is going to be emotive and i'm trying to avoid a knee jerk reaction. 

Firstly, our justice system is based on the chance of rehabilitation. This is a man who has been convicted of no crime and therefore he shouldn't have his livelihood taken away. It seems like he has reconciled with his partner, who is now pregnant? (Stand to be corrected here) And he could definitely offer something to a club at our level.

However, he has been recorded exhibiting extremely aggressive, misogynistic behaviour towards his partner and while there has been no conviction it can be considered abusive. No conviction does not mean innocent. His presence at the club could be divisive in the dressing room and quite horrifying on the same basis to many in our fanbase. If not entirely alienating. This however assumes that he will never change, or has not learned from his experiences as a young man. And let's make no mistake, he is just a step or two on from childhood.

I would be inclined to give him a chance on the basis of a chance for redemption. But, It would bring a storm of negativity with it. 

 

Edited by Colinjb
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Saint Matty 76

Saint Matty 76

Posted
Posted
Just now, Colinjb said:

I'm in two minds. 

No conviction does not mean innocent. His presence at the club could be divisive in the dressing room and quite horrifying on the same basis to many in our fanbase. If not entirely alienating. This however assumes that he will never change, or has not learned from his experiences as a young man. And let's no mistake, he is just a step or two on from childhood.
 

Everything else you've written is bullshit.

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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Colinjb said:

I'm in two minds. 

Firstly, our justice system is based on the chance of rehabilitation. This is a man who has been convicted of no crime and therefore he shouldn't have his livelihood taken away. It seems like he has reconciled with his partner, who is now pregnant? (Stand to be corrected here) And he could definitely offer something to a club at our level.

However, he has been recorded exhibiting extremely aggressive, misogynistic behaviour towards his partner and while there has been no conviction it can be considered abusive. No conviction does not mean innocent. His presence at the club could be divisive in the dressing room and quite horrifying on the same basis to many in our fanbase. If not entirely alienating. This however assumes that he will never change, or has not learned from his experiences as a young man. And let's no mistake, he is just a step or two on from childhood.

I would be inclined to give him a chance on the basis of a chance for redemption. But, It would bring a storm of negativity with it. 

 

If he was alive may as well have Fred West as our groundman ? 

Edited by OldNick
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sambosa75

sambosa75

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12 minutes ago, Colinjb said:

I'm in two minds on this. By very nature this is going to be emotive and i'm trying to avoid a knee jerk reaction. 

Firstly, our justice system is based on the chance of rehabilitation. This is a man who has been convicted of no crime and therefore he shouldn't have his livelihood taken away. It seems like he has reconciled with his partner, who is now pregnant? (Stand to be corrected here) And he could definitely offer something to a club at our level.

However, he has been recorded exhibiting extremely aggressive, misogynistic behaviour towards his partner and while there has been no conviction it can be considered abusive. No conviction does not mean innocent. His presence at the club could be divisive in the dressing room and quite horrifying on the same basis to many in our fanbase. If not entirely alienating. This however assumes that he will never change, or has not learned from his experiences as a young man. And let's make no mistake, he is just a step or two on from childhood.

I would be inclined to give him a chance on the basis of a chance for redemption. But, It would bring a storm of negativity with it. 

 

Do you think it is likely he has shown genuine contrition for his actions or rather his partner is a bit of a braindead WAG who has become accustomed to the lifestyle he affords her and has accepted that to maintain that, she may have to take the occasional hiding behind closed doors or knock a couple of kids out with him and then divorce him but with enough leverage to be seen right financially?

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qwertyell

qwertyell

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11 minutes ago, Colinjb said:

Firstly, our justice system is based on the chance of rehabilitation. This is a man who has been convicted of no crime and therefore he shouldn't have his livelihood taken away. It seems like he has reconciled with his partner, who is now pregnant? (Stand to be corrected here)

He broke the terms of his bail to have no contact with the key witness and knocked her up in the process. She then refused to be a witness against him and the case collapsed.

And our justice system did little more than furrow its brow and tut. Grim.

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Colinjb

Colinjb

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1 minute ago, sambosa75 said:

Do you think it is likely he has shown genuine contrition for his actions

No idea, that would be key to any decision for me. If he hasn't, then he shouldn't be anywhere near a return to football.

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Colinjb

Colinjb

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2 minutes ago, qwertyell said:

He broke the terms of his bail to have no contact with the key witness and knocked her up in the process. She then refused to be a witness against him and the case collapsed.

A possibility. But that's just one interpretation and as we are neither Greenwood or his partner, we won't ever know for sure.

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qwertyell

qwertyell

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5 minutes ago, Colinjb said:

A possibility. But that's just one interpretation and as we are neither Greenwood or his partner, we won't ever know for sure.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/mason-greenwood-bail-police-ignored-29122334

Not a possibility. It's literally what happened. The charges were dropped in February 2023. The key witness against him had his baby in July 2023. You don't need a degree in maths or biology to figure out that he knocked her up while violating the conditions of his bail. The case collapsed because the key witness - who was busy sleeping with the accused - withdrew their cooperation.

 

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OldNick

OldNick

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1 minute ago, The Curse of St Mary's said:

Likely primed for a move to the Saudi Pro league where they won't give a shit about his history. Absolute PR disaster for anyone else. 

probably get a medal over there forwhat he did

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Holmes_and_Watson

Holmes_and_Watson

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11 minutes ago, Colinjb said:

I'm in two minds on this. By very nature this is going to be emotive and i'm trying to avoid a knee jerk reaction. 

Firstly, our justice system is based on the chance of rehabilitation. This is a man who has been convicted of no crime and therefore he shouldn't have his livelihood taken away. It seems like he has reconciled with his partner, who is now pregnant? (Stand to be corrected here) And he could definitely offer something to a club at our level.

However, he has been recorded exhibiting extremely aggressive, misogynistic behaviour towards his partner and while there has been no conviction it can be considered abusive. No conviction does not mean innocent. His presence at the club could be divisive in the dressing room and quite horrifying on the same basis to many in our fanbase. If not entirely alienating. This however assumes that he will never change, or has not learned from his experiences as a young man. And let's make no mistake, he is just a step or two on from childhood.

I would be inclined to give him a chance on the basis of a chance for redemption. But, It would bring a storm of negativity with it. 

 

Appreciate you taking the time to explain your reasoning.

I can't say I'm in two minds, even agreeing with rehabilitation and with there being no conviction.

The club represents us and our communities. The behaviour you point out underlies his personality and views. There's no indication any of that has changed, regardless of the status of his relationship with his partner. We shouldn't be offering to hand hold him through that process. Currently, his views are toxic and absolutely not in keeping with our club, or us.

His footballing ability and availability are nowhere near as important.

Press reaction is also far less important, but has a different impact. If there was a universal press campaign to get him to join us, we should still say no. Because of the above values.

Employing him could lead to a breakdown in relationships to our other employees and with the community. Press coverage, which is likely to be the opposite of the above, would alert any sponsors already not concerned. And they would be right to be concerned, as we'd be going against our values. Withdrawal of their support would have a financial impact that makes signing him a waste financially, but even more so due to the reputational damage.

It would diminish us as a club and us as supporters of it.

So, an absolutely not from me

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Jimmy_D

Jimmy_D

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26 minutes ago, Colinjb said:

I'm in two minds on this. By very nature this is going to be emotive and i'm trying to avoid a knee jerk reaction. 

Firstly, our justice system is based on the chance of rehabilitation. This is a man who has been convicted of no crime and therefore he shouldn't have his livelihood taken away. It seems like he has reconciled with his partner, who is now pregnant? (Stand to be corrected here) And he could definitely offer something to a club at our level.

However, he has been recorded exhibiting extremely aggressive, misogynistic behaviour towards his partner and while there has been no conviction it can be considered abusive. No conviction does not mean innocent. His presence at the club could be divisive in the dressing room and quite horrifying on the same basis to many in our fanbase. If not entirely alienating. This however assumes that he will never change, or has not learned from his experiences as a young man. And let's make no mistake, he is just a step or two on from childhood.

I would be inclined to give him a chance on the basis of a chance for redemption. But, It would bring a storm of negativity with it. 

 

Even if you step back for a moment and look at it from a purely footballing perspective, there’s no way anyone would be able to deal with the constant scrutiny and abuse he’ll be getting if he plays in England.

You’d get almost no benefit from signing him and the cost to the image of the club would be immense.

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Colinjb

Colinjb

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1 minute ago, qwertyell said:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/mason-greenwood-bail-police-ignored-29122334

Not a possibility. It's literally what happened. The charges were dropped in February 2023. The key witness against him had his baby in July 2023. You don't need a degree in maths or biology to figure out that he knocked her up while violating the conditions of his bail. The case collapsed because the key witness - who was busy sleeping with the accused - withdrew their cooperation.

 

Thanks for the link. Yeah, that's shady.

So, the questions are. Do we think he has at any point shown any contrition? Is there any possibility he can change for the better?

Pragmatically I know the club will want to avoid drama, he will never come here. But should he be denied a chance to continue his career if those two questions have been positively answered?


 

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The Kraken

The Kraken

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Posted
Just now, OldNick said:

I expect Utd have given him a big pay- off. I cant understand how they ever came to the decision to take him back. Total lunacy. 

If just going by the statement made by United, I’m not sure if they’ve yet terminated his contract. It’s all a bit woolly but the club are saying “ It has therefore been mutually agreed that it would be most appropriate for him to do so away from Old Trafford, and we will now work with Mason to achieve that outcome.” So sounds like they’re just going to try and sort out a transfer rather than jettisoning him.

Certainly don’t think there’s any club in the UK that would take him, only need to see the David Goodwillie saga to identify how fans groups would react. Saudi, maybe, although it’s a headache they don’t need and Greenwood is hardly a big name outside of this scandal.

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Barsiem

Barsiem

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6 minutes ago, Colinjb said:

But should he be denied a chance to continue his career if those two questions have been positively answered?

Yes he absolutely should be denied a chance to continue his football career.  Would you be saying the same if it was a teacher at your local school who had behaved like Greenwood and wanted to return to their teaching role?  How about a politician or your GP? 

Footballers are in a privileged position whereby they earn a shitload of cash and are idolised by children.  People who behave like Greenwood should lose that privilege and take up another career. 

The only mitigating factor for Greenwood is that he hasn't been convicted, but as has already been shown the reasons for that are more than a little suspect.

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Jeremy Corbyn

Jeremy Corbyn

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26 minutes ago, The Curse of St Mary's said:

Likely primed for a move to the Saudi Pro league where they won't give a shit about his history. Absolute PR disaster for anyone else. 

I wonder though, Ronaldo hates him apparently and always has. If he has far reaching influence, could make it difficult.

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