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Sarina Wiegman

LegalEagle

By LegalEagle,
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LegalEagle

LegalEagle

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With an apparent lull in transfer activity, I thought I’d start a healthy discussion. If Saints were struggling by Christmas, mid table or lower and we binned off RM, who would welcome SW as manager? Would it work? Interested in people’s thoughts. My view is why not but perhaps I’m being naive.

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Patches O Houlihan

Patches O Houlihan

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I just read an article in the Telegraph that suggests she's contracted until after the 2025 Euros and the FA won't let her go anywhere. Apparently she's on ~£400,000/yr. Southgate is on ~£6m/yr. PL managers are in the £4-20m/yr range.

So probably unlikely at Christmas 😁

I'd love to see how she does in the mens game though. She has managed a team to the final of the last 4 major international tournaments; won 2 and is favourite for the fourth... 🤞

Edited by Patches O Houlihan
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Fan The Flames

Fan The Flames

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I don't think I could handle the flak from the culture war boys. The pressure after a few losses would be immense and there would be hyper vigilance of everything she says and does.

I don't think there will be a female manager that crosses over, a match up would be top WSL to what, league 1 or bottom of Champ? and any decent WSL manager would see that as a step down, playing Champions League to Johnson's Paint Trophy. 

The first female manager will come up through the mens game, like Hannah Dingley at FGR.

Also being an international manager is a different thing to being a club manager.

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AlexLaw76

AlexLaw76

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2 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

I don't think I could handle the flak from the culture war boys. The pressure after a few losses would be immense and there would be hyper vigilance of everything she says and does.

I don't think there will be a female manager that crosses over, a match up would be top WSL to what, league 1 or bottom of Champ? and any decent WSL manager would see that as a step down, playing Champions League to Johnson's Paint Trophy. 

The first female manager will come up through the mens game, like Hannah Dingley at FGR.

Also being an international manager is a different thing to being a club manager.

She was a caretaker for about 3 weeks, over the summer

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Fabrice Fernandes no.1 fan

Fabrice Fernandes no.1 fan

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46 minutes ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

I just read an article in the Telegraph that suggests she's contracted until after the 2025 Euros and the FA won't let her go anywhere. Apparently she's on ~£400,000/yr. Southgate is on ~£6m/yr. PL managers are in the £4-20m/yr range.

So probably unlikely at Christmas 😁

I'd love to see how she does in the mens game though. She has managed a team to the final of the last 4 major international tournaments; won 2 and is favourite for the fourth... 🤞

A very impressive record, but it has always struck me that international management and club management are different animals altogether. She notoriously hates rotating players or making subs, so not sure how that looks across 46 games. Tactically she seems very astute, the way she's used the England squad is very admirable.

Should she be getting better offers, absolutely

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Lighthouse

Lighthouse

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38 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

I don't think I could handle the flak from the culture war boys. The pressure after a few losses would be immense and there would be hyper vigilance of everything she says and does.

I don't think there will be a female manager that crosses over, a match up would be top WSL to what, league 1 or bottom of Champ? and any decent WSL manager would see that as a step down, playing Champions League to Johnson's Paint Trophy. 

The first female manager will come up through the mens game, like Hannah Dingley at FGR.

Also being an international manager is a different thing to being a club manager.

A WSL team almost certainly wouldn’t beat an Isthmian League team, SW wouldn’t have to go and do a decent job there and then in L1/2 before anyone in the Championship would even consider appointing her.

All these ‘culture war’ and ‘ gammon’ comments are a bit rich when people can’t seem to just watch and enjoy women’s football, without having a snipe at the men’s game and those who watch it.

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Saint86

Saint86

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The reality is that SW has done absolutely nothing to demonstrate she can run a men's team at the level of the championship to mid table prem, it would be like saints going out and headhunting whichever mananger wins the fa trophy this season... I just can't understand the fans that think women's football is comparable to the men's game? It's nowhere near on the same level for athleticism or skill, because the games are played at an entirely different pace, with less power, more space, and different tactics. Let's not even start on the level of the goalkeeping and/or ridiculousness of having 5ft 4" goalkeepers (e.g. Haiti vs England) playing in the same size goals as in the men's game. It's basically a different sport at this point, and should be enjoyed as such.

Edited by Saint86
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Patches O Houlihan

Patches O Houlihan

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She wouldn't be playing against the Isthmian league herself - her players would be - and they'd be blokes. 

She would probably need to adapt her tactics - but this is clearly a her strong suit. 

The biggest issue would be getting respect from the team, but surely two x Euro wins (& maybe a WC) would help with a Championship squad?

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Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

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No

Whilst there's no reason that female managers in men's team can't work, taking a gamble in that predicament isn't the best way to go about it IMO. The first men's team to appoint a woman manager will be some League Two club who are about 14th place, can neither go up nor down, with ten games to go.

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Sunglasses Ron

Sunglasses Ron

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1 minute ago, Bad Wolf said:

No

Whilst there's no reason that female managers in men's team can't work, taking a gamble in that predicament isn't the best way to go about it IMO. The first men's team to appoint a woman manager will be some League Two club who are about 14th place, can neither go up nor down, with ten games to go.

So Morecambe then! 😀

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Jimmy_D

Jimmy_D

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Looks like it’s a moot point anyway.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66530873

Tactics-wise she’s obviously very good. We’ve faced teams using all different styles of tactics at this World Cup, missing some of our best players, and had an answer for all of them. With her international teams she’s managed to get players willing to run through walls for her, and more than that, believing they can run through walls for her. Whether she’d get the same respect from a men’s team… she certainly would from some players, but probably not all.

I don’t think it’d be impossible for her to build a team that works given enough time, but the chances of that seem relatively low to me. That said, I reckon she’d be a better shout than some of the players that have walked into top management jobs five minutes after retiring from playing.

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64saint

64saint

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11 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Fucking ridiculous thread.

Absolute woke bollocks.

Might be a ridiculous idea, probably would never happen but its not a ridiculous thread. The Op asked if it would work. Any thread that provokes discussion has to be good. Or do we want threads we all agree on. 

Edited by 64saint
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Osvaldorama

Osvaldorama

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Can’t be worse than Nathan Jones or Ruben selles, but..

I love women as much as the next bloke, but I wouldn’t want to see a woman managing saints. I just don’t see how the players would respect someone that hasn’t done it in the men’s game. 
 

They def didn’t respect NJ & RS and it got us relegated. It’s important for top level managers to be managed by someone they can respect IMO. 

Edited by Osvaldorama
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Fan The Flames

Fan The Flames

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44 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

A WSL team almost certainly wouldn’t beat an Isthmian League team, SW wouldn’t have to go and do a decent job there and then in L1/2 before anyone in the Championship would even consider appointing her.

All these ‘culture war’ and ‘ gammon’ comments are a bit rich when people can’t seem to just watch and enjoy women’s football, without having a snipe at the men’s game and those who watch it.

What has whether a WSL team wouldn't beat an Isthmian team got to do with it. We are talking about parity of value in the managers position, not in the ability of the team they manage. Currently a top manager in the women's game would only get a gig lower down the men's pyramid and for those top WSL managers it would be seen as a step down. 

I agree fans of the women's game shouldn't be calling out fans of the men's game, you've picked me up on my culture war comment but already someone has called it 'woke bollocks', I rest my case.

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Jimmy_D

Jimmy_D

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3 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

This is a joke yeah?

If you were at home and your wife took the kids to crazy golf and beat them, would that mean you'd have her as your Matchplay partner in the Club Championship? No you fucking wouldn't. 

Are you really trying to downplay a coach that’s reached four major international tournament finals in a row, winning at least two of them, to crazy golf level? :lol: 

 

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Charlie Wayman

Charlie Wayman

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She is Dutch and offers from the men's game would probably come from a Dutch side. I imagine it is being or has been discussed over there. 

Plenty of female CEO's lead big companies so why not? It's her brain that's bringing success not her skill or physical strength as a footballer.

Edited by Charlie Wayman
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Patches O Houlihan

Patches O Houlihan

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"We've always had great talent in England throughout the tournaments I've played in but it was about making everything come together. 

Finding the right formation, bringing the group together, perfecting the culture, pulling together the staff and then finding the right manager that compliments it. 

Sarina Wiegman is who we have been waiting for - she brings it all together. 

We needed someone to bring everyone's strengths together on and off the pitch and allow them to be free to express themselves.

She has helped create a winning mentality so it is not a one-off. It is now habitual and every player that comes into the England squad is a winner and buys into that culture she has created.

 

Sarina is just a genuinely lovely person that shows a lot of empathy towards you. She wants to know you on a human level, not just as a player. She has conversations with you about your family. 

You want that in a manager as well as having one who is very good at their job! Her communication levels are on another level to what we have experienced before.

It's the fact she knows each player individually and knows what makes them tick. You know what you're going to get from her. She's the leader essentially but she's mainly just a good person." - Ellen White on the BBC today (Euros 2021 winner) There's also a video of Gary Neville saying that he wished they'd had such a strong culture in the England team he played for. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66530508

 

So tactical skill, and ability to build a culture, and great 'man management'. She would have been far better than Jones, Selles and Pellegrino.  

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ashnats

ashnats

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Probably too expensive for us. Can see her going to eridivise, or as a director of football at a lower prem club, maybe us in a couple of years, but not sure our fan base is mature or supportive enough. Hopefully she'll stay england manager for the foreseeable.

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Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

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1 hour ago, Sunglasses Ron said:

So Morecambe then! 😀

I was thinking more Forest Green.

Putting the gender thing to one side, you also have to consider the fact that International management is VERY different to club management. In the men's game we've seen managers be useless at one and great at the other.

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Lighthouse

Lighthouse

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41 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

What has whether a WSL team wouldn't beat an Isthmian team got to do with it. We are talking about parity of value in the managers position, not in the ability of the team they manage. Currently a top manager in the women's game would only get a gig lower down the men's pyramid and for those top WSL managers it would be seen as a step down. 

If you’re being objective, you have to look at the level of football she has actually managed and she hasn’t put out nor come up against any team which would survive in the men’s football league. It may be a step down in terms of money and publicity but in terms of the standard of football being played it’s a big step up.

34 minutes ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

So tactical skill, and ability to build a culture, and great 'man management'. She would have been far better than Jones, Selles and Pellegrino

 

41 minutes ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

Would have done a better job than Selles, Jones and Pellegrino tbf.  

Total conjecture. Like them or not, Jones and MoPe in particular have both achieved success at a far higher standard of football than Weigman. 

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