Flynn Downes - Official: Signs 4 Year Contract

[Mr Saints]

Is it too early to ask West Ham how much they want for him in January?

Fantastic again today. 

[SaintBobby]

I fear he's in the "too good to play for us for long" category. But what a player. Calm whilst also pretty aggressive and just keeps the whole team ticking over. I was told he had 100% pass completion today?

[austsaint]

37 minutes ago, SaintBobby said:

I fear he's in the "too good to play for us for long" category. But what a player. Calm whilst also pretty aggressive and just keeps the whole team ticking over. I was told he had 100% pass completion today?

I think your fear is justified.   There are probably four players in that 'too good to play for us for long" category.   Downes, KWP, TBH and Sulemana.     It makes finding a way to get promoted this season all the more important.

[SNSUN]

7 hours ago, austsaint said:

I think your fear is justified.   There are probably four players in that 'too good to play for us for long" category.   Downes, KWP, TBH and Sulemana.     It makes finding a way to get promoted this season all the more important.

I agree - at least with Downes and THB we know we have them until the end of the season (unless there is a recall clause). With Sulemana and KWP we need brace ourselves for potential January interest from bigger clubs. We already know Everton have been interested in Sulemana and I think it was Newcastle who were interested in KWP. Replacing either with anywhere like similar quality would be almost impossible given our league status.

[AlexLaw76]

4 minutes ago, SNSUN said:

I agree - at least with Downes and THB we know we have them until the end of the season (unless there is a recall clause). With Sulemana and KWP we need brace ourselves for potential January interest from bigger clubs. We already know Everton have been interested in Sulemana and I think it was Newcastle who were interested in KWP. Replacing either with anywhere like similar quality would be almost impossible given our league status.

I just cannot see Newcastle buying KwP

In fact, if we entertain selling him, we deserve to not be promoted

[SNSUN]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I just cannot see Newcastle buying KwP

In fact, if we entertain selling him, we deserve to not be promoted

Not with Trippier and Livramento now no but there were rumours of interest in the summer. I think Villa and Fulham were also linked IIRC. I'm not saying we would entertain selling them but there will be undoubted interest. Same for all Premier League clubs looking for a Championship standout -  I think Leeds need to brace themselves for interest in their players too, specifically Summerville who looks fantastic. Leicester probably have the League position to tempt their players into staying (as they will almost undoubtedly be promoted) but if I were a Premier League boss I'd be sniffing around KDH in particular.

[austsaint]

14 minutes ago, SNSUN said:

I agree - at least with Downes and THB we know we have them until the end of the season (unless there is a recall clause). With Sulemana and KWP we need brace ourselves for potential January interest from bigger clubs. We already know Everton have been interested in Sulemana and I think it was Newcastle who were interested in KWP. Replacing either with anywhere like similar quality would be almost impossible given our league status.

Yep, January looms as a risk of losing someone important.   As you say, Downes and THB are here for the season.   I have a feeling that KWP is such a decent, honourable individual he will stay put until the summer.     Sulemana's fate is harder to predict.  He will be in demand; probably depends on whether SR want to cash in should a good offer come in during January.......if not it will almost certainly happen in the Summer, depending upon promotion, offers etc

[SWLondonSaint]

Simply too good for this level

[wild-saint]

16 minutes ago, austsaint said:

Yep, January looms as a risk of losing someone important.   As you say, Downes and THB are here for the season.   I have a feeling that KWP is such a decent, honourable individual he will stay put until the summer.     Sulemana's fate is harder to predict.  He will be in demand; probably depends on whether SR want to cash in should a good offer come in during January.......if not it will almost certainly happen in the Summer, depending upon promotion, offers etc

im not sure we would sell any of them (accept Adams) as we would get the same money 4 months later. easy to say you are not going until the end of the season.

[S-Clarke]

3 hours ago, SNSUN said:

I agree - at least with Downes and THB we know we have them until the end of the season (unless there is a recall clause). With Sulemana and KWP we need brace ourselves for potential January interest from bigger clubs. We already know Everton have been interested in Sulemana and I think it was Newcastle who were interested in KWP. Replacing either with anywhere like similar quality would be almost impossible given our league status.

Isn't it the Afcon next year? That means we'll be without Sulemana for most if it not all of Jan, i doubt clubs will be sniffing in January because of that.

[Saint_clark]

34 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Isn't it the Afcon next year? That means we'll be without Sulemana for most if it not all of Jan, i doubt clubs will be sniffing in January because of that.

Depends how well he does between now and then, I guess. Ghana may be out of the competition before the window closes, as well.

[Saint Garrett]

Downes really underwhelmed me when he first joined, came with a big reputation and was expecting him to come in and dominate, he didn’t. 

He now looks fit, and settled and now is probably first in the team sheet. 

[Turkish]

17 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

Downes really underwhelmed me when he first joined, came with a big reputation and was expecting him to come in and dominate, he didn’t. 

He now looks fit, and settled and now is probably first in the team sheet. 

Like Fraser he’s hardly played for a year going to take a bit of time time for them to get back into the groove. Both of them will play a bit part for us this season, Downes looks like one of the best players in the league now which we hoped he would be. 
 

hopefully Stewart will be as good as we hoped and Harwood-bellis is potentially the best central defender in the league, that’s a decent spine something we’ve lacked for years 

Edited 29 October, 2023 by Turkish

[Dman]

What a brilliant player Downes is at this level. Asides KWP, easily our best player and argually the most influentual. 

Unlikley if we don't go up, but i'd love for us to snap him up on a permant deal. Is there much difference between him and JWP? I'm not too sure there is. 

[AlexLaw76]

7 minutes ago, Dman said:

What a brilliant player Downes is at this level. Asides KWP, easily our best player and argually the most influentual. 

Unlikley if we don't go up, but i'd love for us to snap him up on a permant deal. Is there much difference between him and JWP? I'm not too sure there is. 

well, there is...clearly

One is doing very well (again, after many years of doing. very well) in the top half of the premier league, at a club that did not want to keep Downes, or JwP would have kept out of the team almost every game.

[Dman]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

well, there is...clearly

One is doing very well (again, after many years of doing. very well) in the top half of the premier league, at a club that did not want to keep Downes, or JwP would have kept out of the team almost every game.

Which is kind of my point. Is JWP £30m better than Downes? For me, no. 

He's 5 years older so naturally has more experience, but other than corners (for which WH have significantly more threat from), is a run of the mill PL CM (not just saying now he's left - I've always consistently said that)

Would WH be any worse off if they'd kept and played Downes over JWP? Impossible to answer, but again, not for me. 

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, Dman said:

Which is kind of my point. Is JWP £30m better than Downes? For me, no. 

He's 5 years older so naturally has more experience, but other than corners (for which WH have significantly more threat from), is a run of the mill PL CM (not just saying now he's left - I've always consistently said that)

Would WH be any worse off if they'd kept and played Downes over JWP? Impossible to answer, but again, not for me. 

If JwP is sold this summer, he leaves for far more than £30m. 

Karen Brady did an interview on the radio where she confirmed Saints came back to the table and significantly lowered the threshold regarding the sale of JwP.
right now, JwP is much better than Downes. Where they play tells you this, regardless of how old someone is, or where they may be in 5 years.

As for the last point, look on KUMB. They absolutely love JwP and believe they have an absolute bargain (yep, they do) for a player like him. 

Edited 18 December, 2023 by AlexLaw76

[gio1saints]

We go up,Flynn joins,  Flynn starts every week. 
We go up, Flynn leaves, Flynn warms the bench at West Ham or somewhere else.

 
As long as the wage money offered is decent I’d like to think we could convince Flynn to join Saints if we got promoted. And he is as integral to this team now as JWP ever was imo. 

[SNSUN]

1 hour ago, Dman said:

Which is kind of my point. Is JWP £30m better than Downes? For me, no. 

He's 5 years older so naturally has more experience, but other than corners (for which WH have significantly more threat from), is a run of the mill PL CM (not just saying now he's left - I've always consistently said that)

Would WH be any worse off if they'd kept and played Downes over JWP? Impossible to answer, but again, not for me. 

He's been a bit out of form of late but his early season form didn't surprise me at all. He was fresh and ready to go. Considering he covers every inch of grass on a football pitch multiple times a game, and almost never misses a minute, it's not surprising he drifts in and out of form as he's probably knackered. 

Downes is a West Ham fan and will be going back to them off the back of being one of the best midfielders in the Championship (the sort of players West Ham look to sign - Bowen/Benrahma etc) - I really don't think he'll be playing for any team bar the one at E20 next season. I'd love it to be us but I can't see it, even if we go up.

[S-Clarke]

He's pretty much the Championship version of JWP, very similar players. He just doesn't have the set pieces.

We've done very well to replace JWP with him, I can't think of many more like for likes we could have got relative to our league status.

[trousers]

Time to start praying that he doesn't pick up another injury for the rest of the season...

#pivotalplayer

[CB Fry]

We've conceded six goals since he went off injured on Saturday.

[S-Clarke]

Critical player in how we play, the holes throughout midfield tonight have been glaring and they wouldn't have been there if Downes was available. I felt a bit sorry for Charles in the first half, it was like seeing a kid thrown into the lions den - so out of his depth trying to play the Downes role it was untrue.

[karlb79]

42 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Critical player in how we play, the holes throughout midfield tonight have been glaring and they wouldn't have been there if Downes was available. I felt a bit sorry for Charles in the first half, it was like seeing a kid thrown into the lions den - so out of his depth trying to play the Downes role it was untrue.

I agree he was poor in the 1st half and gave the ball away too much, but at least it was still 0-0 when he went off. It felt like with that change at half time we completely surrendered any sort of midfield defensive shape.

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, CB Fry said:

We've conceded six goals since he went off injured on Saturday.

Some players have their best games when they don’t play 

[Fabrice Fernandes no.1 fan]

10 hours ago, karlb79 said:

I agree he was poor in the 1st half and gave the ball away too much, but at least it was still 0-0 when he went off. It felt like with that change at half time we completely surrendered any sort of midfield defensive shape.

Agreed, as poor as Charles was on the ball, he was getting into the right places when we were defending most of the time. Smallbone definitely can't play that role. Downes truly is crucial to this system.

[Convict Colony]

10 hours ago, Turkish said:

Some players have their best games when they don’t play 

True, McCarthy is having a stellar season, not conceded a goal yet - he is a wall.

[S-Clarke]

7 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

True, McCarthy is having a stellar season, not conceded a goal yet - he is a wall.

He let in 3 at Gillingham  

[Baz Fl]

It’s definitely a concern that there seems to be such a big drop of in quality when Downes isn’t available 

[HKsaint]

So we stopped our unbeaten run once Downes is not available ?

[Master Bates]

6 minutes ago, HKsaint said:

So we stopped our unbeaten run once Downes is not available ?

Yeah, we didnt want to continue it without him.

[Turkish]

21 minutes ago, Baz Fl said:

It’s definitely a concern that there seems to be such a big drop of in quality when Downes isn’t available 

it would be the same if Harwood-Bellis was out for any length of time. We all saw the drop in quality when he went off at Swansea. It's not just their ability and players its the organisation, structure and leadership they bring to the team that's also missed. 

[Wade Garrett]

Without Downes the midfield was impotent last night.  Movement was poor, passing was abysmal and choice of pass was just too safe.  Real propaganda football.

 

[stknowle]

4 hours ago, HKsaint said:

So we stopped our unbeaten run once Downes is not available ?

That's about the size of it HK my old pal.

[Osvaldorama]

Today he said there’s been no contact on his future from anyone. 
 

To whom it may concern at the club:

PLEASE sign him up. Please. Sign da ting 

[ErwinK1961]

1 minute ago, Osvaldorama said:

Today he said there’s been no contact on his future from anyone. 
 

To whom it may concern at the club:

PLEASE sign him up. Please. Sign da ting 

If we go up we’ll sign him, if we don’t we won’t.

[egg]

6 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

If we go up we’ll sign him, if we don’t we won’t.

Seems that way. He's a cracking player, and arguably out most important. 

[richardc]

transfers have now been put on hold for a year until Wilcox is replaced

[Dark Munster]

53 minutes ago, richardc said:

transfers have now been put on hold for a year until Wilcox is replaced

If only we had someone at the club who could take over with transfers.

Oh shit.

[AlexLaw76]

1 hour ago, Dark Munster said:

If only we had someone at the club who could take over with transfers.

Oh shit.

[Wade Garrett]

We need him for a promotion push next season.

[AlexLaw76]

5 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

We need him for a promotion push next season.

he is no way good enough 'on the ball' for our Russ

[Wade Garrett]

23 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

he is no way good enough 'on the ball' for our Russ

I’m half expecting him to be dropped tomorrow so Jack can start in midfield.

[Dark Munster]

4 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

he is no way good enough 'on the ball' for our Russ

With a bit of luck he won't be our Russ next season.

[danjosaint]

unfortunately we're stuck with him

[FarehamSaintJames]

He won’t be here next season. He’ll return to West Ham and probably be sold to a promoted team like Leeds.

[beatlesaint]

1 hour ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

He won’t be here next season. He’ll return to West Ham and probably be sold to a promoted team like Leeds.

Unfortunately I think thats the most likely case.

[S-Clarke]

2 hours ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

He won’t be here next season. He’ll return to West Ham and probably be sold to a promoted team like Leeds.

I reckon he'd consider staying if we broached it, but financially we won't be able to go for players like him if we remain down (WHU would want £15m, he'd want 40-50k). Leeds picked up a really good player from a European league in the summer that not many had heard of, Gruev. Cost them 2-3m. Coventry found Hamer when they were a l1 club for around £1m.

Players are out there of equal footing if we have good enough scouting, but that's where the issue starts with us. Our perm signings have been horrendous for far too long. As a Championship club we spent £20m on two players this summer, 1 was injured and still is so has never kicked a ball, and the other is bit-part at best and isn't trusted to play when we don't have a CM available.

[Toussaint]

Does anyone have the results / points total from the games he has not played in? It seemed to have dramatic effect on us on Tuesday when he was pulled at half time, then there was today and the awful run earlier this year when he was out. He has been crucial for us. 

[HarvSFC]

20 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

Does anyone have the results / points total from the games he has not played in? It seemed to have dramatic effect on us on Tuesday when he was pulled at half time, then there was today and the awful run earlier this year when he was out. He has been crucial for us. 

Downes has missed 9 league matches, 1-0 defeat against Ipswich, 1-1 draw with Watford, 1-1 with Coventry, 2-1 win against Plymouth, 3-1 loss against Bristol City, 2-0 win against West Brom and then 2-1 defeats against Hull, Millwall and Cardiff today.

So, of the 9, we've won 2, drawn 2 and lost 5 without him.