Saints 4-4 Norwich

[LGTL]

Alcaraz is far too good for this league. Could comfortably be the best player in the division if we manage to keep hold of him. 

[Chez]

I hope Downes can head a ball. We have so many players that don't. 

[Chez]

4 minutes ago, LGTL said:

Alcaraz is far too good for this league. Could comfortably be the best player in the division if we manage to keep hold of him. 

Many saying he went missing for most of the game. "Did well in last 15minutes." Did you see it differently?

[SNSUN]

Bazunu - made a good block in the second half and could do  but in the first half he made me crap my pants whenever he got the ball. I hope for his sake he gets better fast but I would still rather us bring in a good keeper with experience. 6

 

KWP - not good first half but grew into the game. Wasn't helped that Tella was poor. 6

Bednarek - goal aside I thought both our centre backs were poor. 5

Stephens - See Bednarek. We need a CB with pace and presence if we are going to be susceptible on the counter. 5

Manning - set pieces weren't great, positioning was iffy. Needs more confidence. Wasn't our worst defender. 6

 

Smallbone - I really like him but he was better in the second half when Charles came on in a more advanced role. He kept the team ticking. 7

SArmstrong - Some neat footwork but he didn't really get into the game enough. He wouldn't be starting in my midfield. Will be a useful squad member though if he stays. 6

Alcaraz - some great shots on goal and was trying to be positive. Looked the most likely player to win the game for us in the last minute. 7

 

Edozie - positive again, tries to make things happen. Important player for us, shame about the injury. 6

Tella - touch was off, didn't impress me this week. 5

AA without the hyphen - ran about a lot and great penalties but I still think he looks better on the left. We improved when Che came on. 7

Subs

Charles - my MOTM. Great range of passing, looked very good. Took a clever booking for the team. We instantly looked better when he came on and Smallbone went more attacking IMO. 8

Adams - quite simply a better striker than AA, good goal. Either start him or sell and replace him but we can't go all season with AA as a lone striker. 7

A-A with the hyphen - So lively when he came on. First time I've seen him in the flesh. Will be pushing for a start soon. 7

 

Martin - every sub improved us but there is more work to be done both offensively, defensively and in the transfer market. 7

 

 

[LGTL]

1 minute ago, Chez said:

Many saying he went missing for most of the game. "Did well in last 15minutes." Did you see it differently?

Thought he was excellent throughout. But then I’m a massive fan of his. 

[East Kent Saint]

14 minutes ago, suewhistle said:

I was there today and jumping frustratedly at their third goal, and I've just seem the highlights and it was far worse than I thought. Even at grassroots level nobody gets left that unattended in the middle of the box! Lots of work to do defensively to just get the simple things right, which should help enormously. Although we haven't got an effective physical focus in attack if Adams goes I still think we'll have the ability to score.

But oh my, that defensive midfield and defence..

 

 

 

Don't they show the players the replays and ask them what they think they are doing as part of training ?

[Jonnyboy]

Went to the match today. Was lovely celebrating goals without VAR.

Edited 12 August, 2023 by Jonnyboy

[Raging Bull]

9 minutes ago, Chez said:

Many saying he went missing for most of the game. "Did well in last 15minutes." Did you see it differently?

Yes, he’s easily better than those around him and certainly didn’t go missing. 
 

His touch wasn’t always great today but his positioning and ability consistently allowed him to find space at the edge of their box to either shoot or find someone 10 yards out. 
 

I’ve jumped straight to the end of this thread so don’t know what anyone else thinks but if we keep him and keep using him well we’ll create and score a lot of goals. 
 

And as far as the team goes, we have a clear identity and (again, imho) we’re a few good signings away from being a very good championship team. I like what we’re doing a lot. 

[Chez]

4 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

Don't they show the players the replays and ask them what they think they are doing as part of training ?

Questions ought to be asked (both players and coaches) about the third goal conceded. 

[SotonianWill]

18 minutes ago, LGTL said:

Alcaraz is far too good for this league. Could comfortably be the best player in the division if we manage to keep hold of him. 

Second half Alcaraz getting forward, 1-2s, long range shots is top for this league. First half I thought he was fairly awful, letting people glide past him, being out-challenged. Then he grew into the game and showed why he could be a key difference for us, great player when he’s bang at it. 

[Chez]

1 minute ago, Raging Bull said:

Yes, he’s easily better than those around him and certainly didn’t go missing. 
 

His touch wasn’t always great today but his positioning and ability consistently allowed him to find space at the edge of their box to either shoot or find someone 10 yards out. 
 

I’ve jumped straight to the end of this thread so don’t know what anyone else thinks but if we keep him and keep using him well we’ll create and score a lot of goals. 
 

And as far as the team goes, we have a clear identity and (again, imho) we’re a few good signings away from being a very good championship team. I like what we’re doing a lot. 

Like your positivity. Couldnt watch game as travelling, but the match thread and immediate aftermath was predictably negative.  

[bpsaint]

39 minutes ago, igsey said:

I hope we do some penalty practice in training, both of AA's were awful. Gunn should have got the first and the second would have been a simple save if he'd gone the right way. Stick it in the corner!

Is this a wind up? I’m not AAs biggest fan but his two penalties were quality. 

[Chez]

2 minutes ago, SotonianWill said:

Second half Alcaraz getting forward, 1-2s, long range shots is top for this league. First half I thought he was fairly awful, letting people glide past him, being out-challenged. Then he grew into the game and showed why he could be a key difference for us, great player when he’s bang at it. 

We have to get the right players in midfield to maximise his talent and minimise his weaknesses.

[SotonianWill]

2 minutes ago, Chez said:

We have to get the right players in midfield to maximise his talent and minimise his weaknesses.

We need a Wanyama/Romeu type player to break up play and let stuart armstrong and Alcaraz be creative ahead. Is Downes that man?!

[SNSUN]

11 minutes ago, Jonnyboy said:

Went to the match today. Was lovely celebrating goals without VAR.

Yeah good observation. Just simple elation without hesitation. I do think VAR has a place in football but it does make you second guess when a goal goes in.

Also 2 pens today so we got to cheer 6 times. 😎

[Chez]

12 minutes ago, SotonianWill said:

We need a Wanyama/Romeu type player to break up play and let stuart armstrong and Alcaraz be creative ahead. Is Downes that man?!

Not sure he is an out and out holding midfielder. Think he can get up and down the pitch.

[Appy]

The amount of bookings for both teams is unsustainable, double figures and it was hardly a dirty game. 

[Give it to Ron]

18 minutes ago, Chez said:

Like your positivity. Couldnt watch game as travelling, but the match thread and immediate aftermath was predictably negative.  

Because most dont have a scoobie about what they are watching! One even wrote the season off after 6 minutes!

If we can sort out dead ball situations and make some good signings in spine we will be close.

We have a pattern of play and team know what they are doing- we had 30 shots!

[benjii]

If we had a couple of people who could head the ball we'd be great.

[JRM]

18 minutes ago, Appy said:

The amount of bookings for both teams is unsustainable, double figures and it was hardly a dirty game. 

Ref was dishing them out for some very minor things, couldn't understand most of them and was certain we'd end up with a red. Going to end up with half the team suspended if it carries on like that 

[dellboysaint]

We need to sign a goalkeeper. Bazunu is not yet ready and McCarthy is weak.

[Chez]

53 minutes ago, SNSUN said:

Yeah good observation. Just simple elation without hesitation. I do think VAR has a place in football but it does make you second guess when a goal goes in.

Also 2 pens today so we got to cheer 6 times. 😎

Fuck VAR. If a mistake is made, everyone needs to just suck it up and accept that it happens. The game was better without it. Rant over.

Edited 12 August, 2023 by Chez

[musesaint]

4 hours ago, benjii said:

Smallbone is class and we have plenty if good forward options at this level. 

Just need some aerial power.

Smallbone our best player today. Hope he wasn’t injured seriously. We need him fit 

[revolution saint]

1 hour ago, Chez said:

Many saying he went missing for most of the game. "Did well in last 15minutes." Did you see it differently?

Everyone sees it differently but around the 55 or 60 minute mark I thought he faded a bit. There was one occasion when a Norwich player went on a run, Charley went with him but it was very laboured. Around the same time he started under hitting a few passes and I thought he’d get subbed. I guess injuries put paid to that. Anyway he seemed to get a second wind because he was great for the last 15 to 20 mins. 

[West end Saints]

2 hours ago, Chewy said:

Well that wasn’t dull.
The bad stuff

Not sure I watched the same match as everyone else but why the love in for Charlie today? Thought he offered little first half, and his pathetic attempt at tracking back was made to look even more crass when ArmA sped past him at twice the speed (literally - I’m not joking) to make a saving tackle. He looked threatening late on but was greedy with one of his shots where a pass would have been better.

I like Charlie and he is still young but this was not one of his better days.

Defence was awful, obviously. Stephens palmed his man off to Manning leaving Mannings man free  to cross for their first goal, which was a free header. Another free header from a corner, conceded because Edozie didn’t track the simplest of runs down the flank. A calamity of a 4th (wrong end but understand it was Manning) and a stroll through the entire centre of our midfield and defence for their second.

Dreadful.

We also got away with three other complete gifts at the back, one each for Jan, Jack and Shea Charles (who was otherwise solid in his debut).

Baz was actually blameless for any of the goals, but pitiful for their disallowed effort. His inexperience isn’t helping our defence get organized, his defense being so shite isn’t helping him. Plus ca change.

Defensive shape also a major issue - we basically played with 2 10s (inside forwards if you will) and 2 wingers. In itself brave - but when you do you probably need a destructive number 6, not a play maker. I actually loved the way Smallbone played and knitted stuff together but he can’t be at 6 with 2 10s, especially when neither can or will track back.

The good stuff

Stu - best I’ve seen him in ages; he’s poor at the defensive elements but is a class above at this level, in this form. ArmA - not a fan and he’s not the right 9 for this system (IMHO) but given his torrid run of form I’ll give him massive credit for both pens. He worked very hard too once shunted out to the wing.

Che looked a handful, Edozie bright and occasional product; Tella was a bit quieter but still is an obvious threat. SAA also looked great - I give him half an assist for the KWP penalty by scaring the shit out of them and creating the space. He’d barely been on 5 mins and they were petrified.

Overall

We have a losing mentality, shit players and shit tactics to recover from and it’s going to take time so I’m going to stay patient. Some of our play was genuinely great to watch. We carry a threat, and even better we carry threats all over now, with a couple of options from the bench too. We will also play many sides worse than Norwich this season. And we rallied from behind 3 times.

Definitely things to be positive about.

But … defend like that all season and we won’t be going up. Good job too cos if we played like that in the premier league we’d be adding many more 9-0s. The center backs are not good enough. I’d hoped they would be at this level but clearly not. Or at least not if they are expected to play it out and have zero protection. 
The midfield balance needs to be better. Last Friday we had more of a 6/8/10 combination and it was more solid. I think Smallbone will be fine as an 8, think we need one of Stu or Charlie, not both (unless chasing a game) and need a proper 6. We need one of our cbs and gk to have real presence and status - none of them have it and it’s killed us for years.

I think the club are sticking with Baz whether we like it or not, so just pray that conceding 7 goals in the last 2 games focuses the mind on where to start spending our money - and fast. If we’re not getting a new gk we need a new cb or 2 pretty damn quickly.

An exciting game, lots of positives and lots to look forward to I think, but a reminder of how much needed turning around and that it’ll take more than 5 weeks to do so.

We all see it differently... 

 

I thought Charlie struggled to get into the first half but still did a lot more than Stu, who I thought was a passenger throughout. (about three of his trade mark good runs, then watch the game go by with no interest in getting the ball back when he loses it.) I appreciate I maybe wrong, as he is popular on here, but I just feel that whenever he plays, for 90% of the time we are as good as a man short! 

Thought Charlie had a very good second half. What I like about him is that he plays quick incisive passes in the right area. 

Agree with most of the rest. Downes for Stu and I would be more optimistic. 

Adam A looked better on the left, and we needed Che as a target. 

Tella was in pain towards the end after repeated kicks. 

[HarvSFC]

1 hour ago, Jonnyboy said:

Went to the match today. Was lovely celebrating goals without VAR.

Quick free-kicks made a welcome return too. Haven't seen them since Bertrand put Ings through to score against Arsenal. We tried one in the first half, playing Edozie through while Norwich were setting up their wall and when Norwich were celebrating the offside goal, we quickly took the dead ball and were moving up the pitch. Neither resulted in a goal, but far more entertaining than waiting for somebody to allow/disallow something. 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

2 hours ago, bpsaint said:

Is this a wind up? I’m not AAs biggest fan but his two penalties were quality. 

It did occur to me that a Premier League keeper would have saved that first one

[Saint Troy]

1 hour ago, West end Saints said:

We all see it differently... 

 

I thought Charlie struggled to get into the first half but still did a lot more than Stu, who I thought was a passenger throughout. (about three of his trade mark good runs, then watch the game go by with no interest in getting the ball back when he loses it.) I appreciate I maybe wrong, as he is popular on here, but I just feel that whenever he plays, for 90% of the time we are as good as a man short! 

Thought Charlie had a very good second half. What I like about him is that he plays quick incisive passes in the right area. 

Agree with most of the rest. Downes for Stu and I would be more optimistic. 

Adam A looked better on the left, and we needed Che as a target. 

Tella was in pain towards the end after repeated kicks. 

Agree about Charley. Got in to game when Adam’s went up top. Adams created space and Alcaraz has ball moving fwd rather than static back to goal. AA doesn’t cut it in that system up front at all. Liked him wide and his energy was great but first half made next to no runs and offers little in terms of back to goal or balls swung in. 
 

Felt for edoize first half. With full back so deep and narrow he is always 1 v 2 and little surprise no end product. 
 

the system is great when the oppo is set. But when we break a line we need to be in a position to move fwd quickly and not there yet. A few times we seem to just wait for them to get set. 
 

charles looked good and helped us get a better hold I felt. 
 

exhausting to watch!! 

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, Chez said:

Fuck VAR. If a mistake is made, everyone needs to just suck it up and accept that it happens. The game was better without it. Rant over.

I've always said if it's not clear and obvious to the extent that you can't tell immediately from a replay that it was the wrong decision, it should stay as the referee's call on the pitch. I don't see why that is so difficult to implement. 

[rallyboy]

Norwich broke after we gave the ball away, Alcarez just gave up and jogged back like he didn't care, Adam Armstrong bust a gut and won the ball back.

He might not be Lionel Messi but AA put in a shift and nailed two pressure penalties. 

 

 

 

[CSA96]

 

[Kermitzasaint]

This is exactly the type of football Martin offers. I realise many fans get excited about him being well spoken, presentable and having a tough streak but it comes down to this every time.

 

[austsaint]

8 hours ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

ABK has great recovery pace and would surely monster this league if his head is in the right place. We persuade him to stick around, and play him with Bednarek; that would improve things at the back 

Didn't see the game today but what you say is clearly crucial this season.   Either ABK staying (unlikely as it seems) or a CB or two of his quality is needed urgently - as are CM replacements.    In my mind there's a question mark too about Manning - he looks very short on pace?   By comparison, at this early stage, I'd have Perraud in a heartbeat, although it's clear that Manning is RM's pick and therefore nailed on for the spot.

[Ralph Fastenbüttl]

38 minutes ago, Kermitzasaint said:

This is exactly the type of football Martin offers. I realise many fans get excited about him being well spoken, presentable and having a tough streak but it comes down to this every time.

 

Exciting, fun to watch football? After Selles-Ball, I'll take it TBH. Today was great fun.

[Kermitzasaint]

1 hour ago, Ralph Fastenbüttl said:

Exciting, fun to watch football? After Selles-Ball, I'll take it TBH. Today was great fun.

It may be fun but it's not the way to get promoted. 

[wild-saint]

2 hours ago, Kermitzasaint said:

It may be fun but it's not the way to get promoted. 

What is the way to get promoted with that squad of players, Detail please?

[david in sweden]

Saints v. Norwich takes me back to my childhood days in the 1960's when we both played in the old Division 2, and had similar sort of games.

(After a few seasons,  Ted Bates decided to buy the Canaries CF ....a Welshman named Ron Davies.....and the rest was history).

 

Yesterday''s positives are obvious .. 69% possession and 31 shots, but we should have converted more and defensively we were a shambles at times. 

A few good performances in there, but it may take time to find out how much we miss JWP, now that he's gone. ...(sounds weird saying that )

but at least we've found someone else who can take a good penalty. 

Another " golden oldie " fixture next week at Plymouth, back in the day ...we bought one of their old CF,  too.. George Kirby !  a one-man battering ram

and we beat them on the way to our first promotion ....in 1966. 

It will take a few weeks before we see the semblance of a new start team, and we will be looking for those names who are still here from last season.

A great game of football on the day and not such a bad start to the season , but I don't know how many more 4-4 home games we can stand?.....

[Fan The Flames]

5 hours ago, Kermitzasaint said:

This is exactly the type of football Martin offers. I realise many fans get excited about him being well spoken, presentable and having a tough streak but it comes down to this every time.

Mate, try just giving your opinion on his football with out belittling other fans.

[JRM]

8 hours ago, musesaint said:

Smallbone our best player today. Hope he wasn’t injured seriously. We need him fit 

Didn't look good when he went off , any news on that? 

[Farmer Saint]

3 hours ago, Kermitzasaint said:

It may be fun but it's not the way to get promoted. 

 And herein lies the problem. Not sure if you've watched us in the Prem over the last few seasons, but it was excruciating to watch. Poor football played by poor players with poor management. It was boring and led to me not watching or taking interest. 

I want to watch exciting football, firstly, and if that leads to promotion then fine, but for me, now, I want entertainment from Saints irrespective of what league we're in. 

Edited 13 August, 2023 by Farmer Saint

[Fan The Flames]

Thought Alcaraz's touch and short passing were off today, he was a bit laboured in tracking back as well. He gets in great positions and if he was more on it we would have been more effective, he did hsve better spells.

Tella was disappointing, shit touch and his body language was off at times, Martin was telling to track back better in the first half and he flung his arms out. He wanted to take the penalty, when surely the penalty taker is already agreed. He'll be our first to get sent off for two disent yellows.

Smallbone was good, constantly running and covering the space, stopped attacks building, good range of passing as well. He, and Stu A were a bit half hearted for their third goal. Got to keep hold of him.

Adams looked good when he came on, strong with his back to goal.

There was a long ball up the line to KWP, he gave up on it and embarrassingly for him in rolled in play for ages, showing he could have got it with a bit more effort.

Stephens has a short pass fuck up in him waiting to happen, although his block for a certain goal was crucial.

Manning just had to smash that ball away.

Enjoyable rollercoaster, but we are too vulnerable.

[InvictaSaint]

3 hours ago, Kermitzasaint said:

It may be fun but it's not the way to get promoted. 

So pray tell - what is the way to get promoted, Nathan? 

[RobJones1971]

10 hours ago, Chez said:

Many saying he went missing for most of the game. "Did well in last 15minutes." Did you see it differently?

This is how I saw it. Could have put a stamp on the game but didn’t. I thought his first touch was poor in several situations in the first half and he didn’t influence the game, until space started to open up in the second half and he came into it little more. 

[Fan The Flames]

8 hours ago, Chez said:

Fuck VAR. If a mistake is made, everyone needs to just suck it up and accept that it happens. The game was better without it. Rant over.

That was the problem, no one sucked it up, fans moaned, managers moaned in press conferences, Sky had whole segments after the match moaning, fans on phone ins were moaning, the papers the next day were moaning. That's why VAR came in.

[Smirking_Saint]

11 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

That was the problem, no one sucked it up, fans moaned, managers moaned in press conferences, Sky had whole segments after the match moaning, fans on phone ins were moaning, the papers the next day were moaning. That's why VAR came in.

Yeah Id rather VAR, it needs work but ultimately it is a bonus

As great as the current feeling is Ill await the meltdown when we lose to a refereeing mistake 

[Kermitzasaint]

33 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Mate, try just giving your opinion on his football with out belittling other fans.

Interesting you mention being belittled. Pretty sure the name calling was directed at me also being accused of not understanding Martin's football style.

I concentrate on his football, not all the pointless stuff around it. I don't understand the focus on his hair, his religion etc. The fawning on here is amusing but I don't call fans names. 

I think our squad is capable of promotion with a few additions in central defence. I don't think Martin has the skills to do it though. 

His interview after the game indicated he was happy with the performance and enjoyed it. 

Personally I don't think that's good enough and sends the wrong message to the team. 

[Fan The Flames]

9 hours ago, Appy said:

The amount of bookings for both teams is unsustainable, double figures and it was hardly a dirty game. 

You used to be able to measure how dirty a game was by the amount of cards. But not anymore and probably not for a while, most yellows are for shirt pulling, ankle taps and dissent now.

There was one, maybe two for kicking the ball away after the whistle went yesterday, so players are learning. McLean got one for questioning the ref, then 5 mins later went to do it again and stopped himself half way by hitting his head with his hands.

So hopefully the yellows for this stuff will slow down, but we are due a period when loads of players in the league are suspended for totting up stupid yellows.

Players use a decision against then to just shout at the ref and vent some of their their pent up frustrations and get a bit of adrenaline going, so I can see why the ref body are trying to clamp down on it.

[Stud mark of doom]

13 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

That was the problem, no one sucked it up, fans moaned, managers moaned in press conferences, Sky had whole segments after the match moaning, fans on phone ins were moaning, the papers the next day were moaning. That's why VAR came in.

I think it’s true to say that VAR hasn’t changed this at all - they are just now moaning about VAR decisions, and the inconsistent use of VAR etc etc. of course, they need to talk about something to fill all that air time, 

meanwhile, I’ve been two games without VAR, six 6 saints goals and two penalties to celebrate instantly and unreservedly. 
 

it feels like proper football is back to me. 

[Kenilworthy]

7 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

I've always said if it's not clear and obvious to the extent that you can't tell immediately from a replay that it was the wrong decision, it should stay as the referee's call on the pitch. I don't see why that is so difficult to implement. 

I would though defy anyone to have sucked up Watford scoring a late equaliser against us by blatant handball

[Fan The Flames]

1 minute ago, Kermitzasaint said:

Interesting you mention being belittled. Pretty sure the name calling was directed at me also being accused of not understanding Martin's football style.

I concentrate on his football, not all the pointless stuff around it. I don't understand the focus on his hair, his religion etc. The fawning on here is amusing but I don't call fans names. 

I think our squad is capable of promotion with a few additions in central defence. I don't think Martin has the skills to do it though. 

His interview after the game indicated he was happy with the performance and enjoyed it. 

Personally I don't think that's good enough and sends the wrong message to the team. 

People aren't focusing on his hair or religion, just interested in it.

But when you allude that fans have been suckered in because of his nice voice etc people stop listening to you.

Martin said he was angry with letting four goals in yesterday.

What is interesting, is after the match he saying stuff similar to Jones, but his choice of words and delivery is better, so he doesn't sound like a prick.