Saints 4-4 Norwich

[Chez]

49 minutes ago, HarvSFC said:

 

Norwich are tipped to be up there this season 

They finished 13th last season. They have lost their 'star' right back and spent buttons. Not sure who has tipped them, as on paper they are not strong.

Edited 12 August, 2023 by Chez

[The Juice]

The defending for their third from the corner is actually criminal. Look at the highlights and how much room the attacker has. 
 

mon a more positive note, can’t remember last time I was entertained so much at St Mary’s. Best league in the world.

Positives for me: Charlie, Smallbone, Che and SAA

 

Negatives: Manning a concern in reading movement on counter attacks, KWP and Tella mostly looking like they don’t wanna be here and AA invisible for most of the game and a terrible first touch (whilst acknowledging the goals) 

 

 

 

 

[beatlesaint]

Well I thoroughly enjoyed that, the most entertaining game I’ve seen at St. Mary’s for years. It took me back to the old days.

Still need two decent centre backs, despite so many people getting excited cos Stephens is captain truth is he’s still a bloody liability however I do wonder how much not having a keeper they trust behind them contributes to defensive issues?

[Luke SkyWalker-Peters]

I honestly think Norwich are going to be one of the best sides we play this season. Having seen them against Hull (and how they themselves dismantled Wednesday today) I'm fairly certain they are going to be in the playoffs at least. To get a draw when the squad is new to the system and we've had a number of players departing (with little incomings) was a good result in my opinion.

Stu and Alcaraz in midfield together leaves far too much space defensively. We looked much more cohesive without the ball when Charles replaced Stu.

We know Stu and his injury issues means he can't play 90 minutes. I'd suggest against the better teams we should be starting with Downes at DM (assuming that's happening) with Alcaraz and Smallbone as the 8s. Based on the game state; we can bring on Stu if we need a goal or Charles if we need to defend.

I'm still more worried about Martin than the squad. I'm certain by the end of the window we will have one of the best squads in the league (possibly the best). His system will need time for the players to feel comfortable. Hopefully he has the ability to make adjustments to make us good enough defensively to get promotion.

[derry]

Four players switched off for Norwich's four goals. KWP was asleep for the first because he could see Sargent and had plenty of time to shuttle across as the other defenders were near post. He should have covered the inside of the back post. For the second Stephens stood off instead of getting in early, afforded the room Sari struck an unstoppable shot. The goal from the corner by Rowe was rediculous. He was literally stood on his own, what was worse so was Alcaraz. He needed to cover Rowe but was another not concentrating. The final goal was a clusterfuck by Manning trying to pull the ball down with his weak foot. Sometimes as the greatest sides in the world show at times you have to belt it.

Today with KWP and three midfield players upfield left us outnumbered by quick breaks. Come on Russell Martin get a grip and put some discipline into defending. Luckily Adam Armstrong buried his penalties because neither occasion looked like a good goal chance.

I like the way we are trying to play but we are too loose in midfield and the back. We created plenty of pressure but pressure doesn't win matches. We have to have enough in defence to pinch off any break out. 

Edited 12 August, 2023 by derry

[captainchris]

52 minutes ago, HarvSFC said:

Issue today was we didn’t have a midfield. We have two big Lavia and JWP holes to fill at the moment. I know JWP isn’t known for being a tough tackler, but he always covered more ground than anyone else, meaning the opposition didn’t have the freedom of the city, like Norwich did when they came at us today. Their goals were far too easy for them. We know Alcaraz and S. Armstrong are good going forward, but it was Smallbone doing a one man job in midfield today, meaning we got repeatedly overran. Hopefully that’s the weakest 11 we put out this season and we got a point from it because we know this defence and Bazunu need serious protection, no matter the division we’re in.

Norwich are tipped to be up there this season and their quality wasn’t all there today, we’ve still got a slight Premier League swagger and need to keep it before we get dragged down into this level.

Refs are still hopeless. Booking every player, missing a throw-in where everyone stopped before the Norwich player clocked the ref hadn’t seen it, so ran it out for a Saints goal kick, which was nice of him, but again the ref missed it, Norwich get a corner and Tella gets booked for dissent. Wasn’t too sure on our second penalty either, looked soft, but it was up the other end to me.

For their fourth goal, Smallbone was too honest. He needed to roll on the pitch and receive treatment so the game would stop and we could get a sub on. Instead we played with 10 men and they score from it, good assist from Manning too. Again, the ref hadn’t realised we were down to 10, so there was a bit of confusion when SAA was waiting to come on, but nobody was going off.

Need new signings in before next week, please.

For three years we have been over run in midfield because our coach’s can’t organise a central midfield at all, it’s non existent in fact just clear grass….

[West end Saints]

1 hour ago, LGTL said:

That was total carnage. No control of that game whatsoever. Entertaining for sure, but no way are we troubling the top 6 playing like that. 

After two games, turning around the lack of character of recent seasons, new manager, best players not available as they are on the way out but not yet replaced... We are.... 6th.

 

Replace Stu with Downes and I suspect we improved significantly. 

[Chez]

34 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

...may well set that club back for many years. 

£135m Prem money (never mind the parachute) says otherwise. 

[stknowle]

37 minutes ago, spyinthesky said:

I am sure a neutral would have seen that as a really enjoyable game.

Nice to score in the last minute for once.

As has been predicted we should score goals but concede many as Swansea did.

However I suggest we have a better squad and probably need it with the amount of yellow cards being liberally dispensed.

We do need to get more height and muscularity in the team.

Assuming we dont lose any more players and this is a big IF, I suggest out staring X1 is likely to be:

BAZ

KWP 
JAN B
JACK S  (with Bella Kotcha as 1st replacement option)
MANNING (or Peraud if he stays)

SMALLBONE
DOWNES
ALCAREZ

TELLA
ADAMS
ARMA (who I think offers more options than Edioze at the moment.

I think that side with a bit of adjustment should at least see us through to the Play Offs.

However it is some way away from Premiership standard and I hate to say it but I enjoyed todays game more than most Prem games, the 4-4 draw with Liverpool notwithstanding>
 

 

 

 

 

If ABK is still here (which he won't be) he has to start.

[Smirking_Saint]

31 minutes ago, Chez said:

Defenders that are not great defensively isn't what we needed.

No I agree, but Im trying to figure out if its him or the system. For example KWP looked a tad overrun at times today too and I think, of their attacks, those that weren’t a set piece initiated from wide areas

So is it that the wide players don’t offer enough protection ? 

Do we need to be better at regrouping on transition ?

Are KWP/Manning just poor 1v1 defenders ?

Or a bit of it all ? Probably early to say
 

[Paul.Studio]

Highlight of the day for me was AA running back 30 yards to get the ball of what was going to be a dangerous attack with everyone else doing nothing! As he scored the penalties MOM for me. We have 2 centre backs we tried to get rid of last season and KWP has taken a big dip in form.  Will wait and see what the transfers bring us but it's going to be a struggle against bigger and stronger players! Talking to a Norwich fan on the train afterwards - reckons we will walk this league 🤷🏼‍♂️

[bpsaint]

43 minutes ago, spyinthesky said:

I am sure a neutral would have seen that as a really enjoyable game.

Nice to score in the last minute for once.

As has been predicted we should score goals but concede many as Swansea did.

However I suggest we have a better squad and probably need it with the amount of yellow cards being liberally dispensed.

We do need to get more height and muscularity in the team.

Assuming we dont lose any more players and this is a big IF, I suggest out staring X1 is likely to be:

BAZ

KWP 
JAN B
JACK S  (with Bella Kotcha as 1st replacement option)
MANNING (or Peraud if he stays)

SMALLBONE
DOWNES
ALCAREZ

TELLA
ADAMS
ARMA (who I think offers more options than Edioze at the moment.

I think that side with a bit of adjustment should at least see us through to the Play Offs.

However it is some way away from Premiership standard and I hate to say it but I enjoyed todays game more than most Prem games, the 4-4 draw with Liverpool notwithstanding>
 

 

 

 

 

Football is a game of opinions as we know, but for me that back 5 gets nowhere near the playoffs.

Wasn’t much Baz could do for the goals today but at the very least I want to see a keeper screaming at his defence as he marshals them into position, there’s none of that from him. We need an experienced head and a leader between the sticks like Kelvin was.

Considering the number of Premier League appearances to their name JS and JB barely looked Championship standard today. Poor marking and sloppy defending. Manning looks exactly what he is, a bog standard Championship left back. KWP is decent and we know what he’s capable of, he just needs the transfer window to be closed so he can settle his mind.

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

Well that was pretty chaotic to say the least.

The main problem I saw today was a total lack of control in the middle of the park, they were able to get in behind on the turnover and bypass our midfield so quickly - and continuously. Some of the goals were absolute shit house, like Manning falling over himself and everyone leaving Rowe to head it in. Their second goal was a screamer though.

Attacking wise we played okay, but the problem will continue to be the turnover if don't have control of the midfield. I thought Charles came on and provided a little more of an anchor in there and we actually had more control with him on the pitch, so it just goes to show how important that style of player is. In effect we started Central Midfield with just attacking midfielders, and because of that we were totally overrun on the counters.

It was great entertainment though, we didn't go into our shells to be fair and we kept coming back which was good to see.

Lots of work to be done though, didn't think our football was as sharp as it was at Wednesday, but Norwich were much quicker to us and didn't give us the time.

We'll have too much for a lot of teams in an attacking sense, but you do feel that we can be got at (certainly if we play a midfield full of attackers)

Agree with all this. Charles certainly provided some anchor when he came on and is in the Lavia mould. Downes will also provide some stability in midfield because we can't be overrun like that each week.

Up front, I'd still prefer Che (or his replacement) to AA who once again provided very little.

But that's two league games on the bounce this season that I've come away feeling good about the Saints and that probably already equals the whole of last year 😀 

[Lighthouse]

Well, I’m fairly sure we’ve never seen back to back 4-4 draws at St Mary’s before. Clearly this whole team was compromised by what I hope will be the weakest central midfield we put out this season. Stu was clearly just a stop gap and we never really controlled the game. TBH it felt like musical chairs, where both teams would just keep randomly chipping in with goals, until FT, with no clear idea as to who’d win. Could have been any score you like.

Can’t say I was particularly impressed with Alcaraz, Tella, AA or Adams if I’m honest. SAA and Charles both looked like exciting prospects though, looking forward to more of them.

[Lighthouse]

Also, thumbs up to whoever decided to play Zombie Nation after a goal. Great shout.

[Highfield Saint]

Everyone says AA did little or nothing but RM singing his praises?

[Pilchards]

Just praying that nobody comes in and meets the price they have put on Alvarez head.

25M is a bargain!

 

If only we could get a keeper that can make saves like Niemi did, a decent centre back, right back plus a striker when Adams leaves.

 

[John B]

2 hours ago, Chez said:

Doesn't make sense to me either. 

He is young he played in midweek maybe they did not want him to play another 90mins

[The Cat]

5 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Also, thumbs up to whoever decided to play Zombie Nation after a goal. Great shout.

Loads of middle aged people pumping their arms up and down to that is not what I'd call a great shout.

Why not just let the crowd make noise by, you know, actually celebrating rather than almost forcing them into some "dur dur dur" chanting like they are at the fucking darts.

[saintant]

1 hour ago, SambaMaverick said:

Yeah agreed. He's fucking shit and I hate him but all four were the fault of the complete clown show at the back.

That free kick he parried out was dreadful though. Could've thrown his cap on it, or at the bare minimum get it behind.

It would also be nice to see him make a decent save once in a while. One where you think: "Fuck me, how's he got to that."

He was also pretty assured with the ball at his feet as well today, probably the best of the back five - not that it was hard at all.

The first goal his position at the near post was all wrong and, as a result, the ball sails over his head - he should have been more central to give himself the chance to claim the cross. I'd also question his positioning for the second goal. Yes, it was well struck but Baz gave him almost the whole goal to aim at. The other two goals he had no chance. I think positional sense is his biggest failing and he gives himself too much to do hence he doesn't save much. Just my take on it.

[Lighthouse]

1 minute ago, The Cat said:

Loads of middle aged people pumping their arms up and down to that is not what I'd call a great shout.

Why not just let the crowd make noise by, you know, actually celebrating rather than almost forcing them into some "dur dur dur" chanting like they are at the fucking darts.

It’s less than ten seconds and most clubs play something after a goal. There’s plenty of time to celebrate and make some noise, unfortunately most of it is garbage about Pompey being sung at 90mph.

[macca155]

Ridiculous game, certainly have goals in this side.

Midfield was powder puff, Norwich just strolled through at ease. That put a weak defense under intense pressure. Manning had a poor game, he'll improve,  and the team's inability to cope with crosses continues to be a real issue.

However today ignore that, they'll improve. Martin said after the game that with Downes Saints wouldn't have conceded four. Have to rely on him fixing it.

The take out from this game was the sheer level of dominance Saints had. 30 shots and at times Norwich were defending desperately, collecting multiple cards.

The impact of Sam Amo Ameyaw was a delight  and Alcaraz was imperious. No way will Saints keep him if he keeps that up.

Armstrong takes s better penalty than JWP and look a different player today.

Stand out moment was Adam Armstrong sprinting 60 yards back to hook tackle a Norwich player. That deservedly got a big cheer.

Norwich were a good test, they are no mugs and put Saints to the sword with lightening fast transitions. They'll be there or there abouts.

Going to be a fun season

[RobJones1971]

Who did they give MoM too? For me Smallbone was head and shoulders over everyone today. 
Stephens as captain looks a bad decision as  not sure he is good enough for a title challenging starting 11. Worrying thing he is the better half of the Chuckle brothers.
Charlie looked poor today but tried hard, but Charles when he came on really added something.
Starting 11 with Charles and Che as per second half with a new centre back and I think it would be a strong side in this division. However any injuries / suspensions, not sure of the backups.

Very entertaining game, thought we played well in second half (except of course when they countered as looked like scoring every time) and another late goal to hopefully demonstrate good team spirit. If we can sort couple of defenders (CB and LB) there is some promise for the season. 
 

 

[Bob60]

1 hour ago, HarvSFC said:

Issue today was we didn’t have a midfield. We have two big Lavia and JWP holes to fill at the moment. I know JWP isn’t known for being a tough tackler, but he always covered more ground than anyone else, meaning the opposition didn’t have the freedom of the city, like Norwich did when they came at us today. Their goals were far too easy for them. We know Alcaraz and S. Armstrong are good going forward, but it was Smallbone doing a one man job in midfield today, meaning we got repeatedly overran. Hopefully that’s the weakest 11 we put out this season and we got a point from it because we know this defence and Bazunu need serious protection, no matter the division we’re in.

Norwich are tipped to be up there this season and their quality wasn’t all there today, we’ve still got a slight Premier League swagger and need to keep it before we get dragged down into this level.

Refs are still hopeless. Booking every player, missing a throw-in where everyone stopped before the Norwich player clocked the ref hadn’t seen it, so ran it out for a Saints goal kick, which was nice of him, but again the ref missed it, Norwich get a corner and Tella gets booked for dissent. Wasn’t too sure on our second penalty either, looked soft, but it was up the other end to me.

For their fourth goal, Smallbone was too honest. He needed to roll on the pitch and receive treatment so the game would stop and we could get a sub on. Instead we played with 10 men and they score from it, good assist from Manning too. Again, the ref hadn’t realised we were down to 10, so there was a bit of confusion when SAA was waiting to come on, but nobody was going off.

Need new signings in before next week, please.

Smallbone did roll back onto the pitch but the referee made him roll off then played on minutes after stopping play for one of their players talking a nap on the pitch.

 

[OttawaSaint]

2 hours ago, Convict Colony said:

Imagine the Leeds forum

Ay up, came down from top field for this. We're all flat cap and no pork pie!

[whelk]

1 hour ago, The Cat said:

Atmosphere was alright. We have moved to Block 36 this season to escape the crushing boredom of the Family Stand.

Just before their 4th the noise was loud. We were attacking well, creating chances. Armstrong ran 50 yards back to tackle their player and a combination of Bazunu and a defender blocked that 1v1. 

Then they scored and naturally it dropped until the last 10 minutes. 

I see Block 1 is still closed. I thought that was going to be open again this season?

Chapel was the noisiest I have known it. Have some lads decamped?

Edited 12 August, 2023 by whelk

[Appy]

Enjoyed that, defending will improve, but so will our attack, which is exciting. 
 

I think the people near me in the Northam shouting “get it forward” are in for a shock. 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

21 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

It’s less than ten seconds and most clubs play something after a goal. There’s plenty of time to celebrate and make some noise, unfortunately most of it is garbage about Pompey being sung at 90mph.

Yeah, it wasn't just middle aged, darts loving wallies doing Zombie nation around us - and we got to do it four times! Much prefer it to some reference about "shitting on the bas**rds below", especially if we've seats close to pitch level!

[Gloucester Saint]

1 hour ago, Chez said:

They finished 13th last season. They have lost their 'star' right back and spent buttons. Not sure who has tipped them, as on paper they are not strong.

They stunk under Dean Smith and like Saints still are post later Ralph era/Jones it takes time to clear the stench of neglect. Good squad for this level on paper, somewhere 5th to 10th. Sara is a serious player who as well as Alcaraz did today was better and Sargent miles better than anything we have in the forwards department bar Che. Which having spent nearly £20m on Onachu and £11m on Mara should result in layers of scouting sackings as neither of those two look good enough for professional football at any level frankly.

They’ve still got some ex PL malcontents to shift eg Rashica and they done have the depth for top 2 but they should do well and decent test. Better than 13th and what they showed last year.

One advantage is their manager. Martin got comparatively exposed tactically today. Not starting with Shea was a shocking error and it was glaringly obvious before 3pm that the CMs selected are offensive-minded and don’t consistently go with runners or assess what protection the back 4 needs. Downes will help but that quote which makes him out to be a panacea is concerning.
If he messes it up at Plymouth again on the selection and tactics, Wilcox is going to have to intervene and mentor a bit as the club can’t afford to throw games away on random experiments. I like Russell Martin overall but today was naive and he got schooled by an experienced hand at this level, but got away with it. Appreciate it’s not easy with the JWP and Lavia messing about but part of the role for now.
We need to be harder to create chances against and it doesn’t need a £40m transfer fund to cut the crosses out which we’re fizzed in with ten yards of space. Most players in the top divisions can deliver quality if you stand off regularly. KWP should know this from last year as we conceded loads of goals from crosses. 
Let’s hope he’s learned from it and the club get him the new faces to shore up in front of and within the back 4. They should replace Bazanu but wont ideologically so they have to transform what’s in front of him with 300 games of experience and communication.

 

 

Edited 12 August, 2023 by Gloucester Saint

[Fitzhugh Fella]

38 minutes ago, Highfield Saint said:

Everyone says AA did little or nothing but RM singing his praises?

Apart from two well taken pens he offered no threat in their box. He works hard, chases and harries but is little threat. 

[Harry_SFC]

1 minute ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Apart from two well taken pens he offered no threat in their box. He works hard, chases and harries but is little threat. 

If Martin wants AA to play then it's got to be on the left really because we just look more dangerous with Adams up top. 

[Wsaint]

6 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Much prefer it to some reference about "shitting on the bas**rds below",

Especially when we were a) drawing with the team in question and b) literally below them in the table 😂

[macca155]

2 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Apart from two well taken pens he offered no threat in their box. He works hard, chases and harries but is little threat. 

I'd say that was a good start.

I was quite impressed with him today.

[SambaMaverick]

AA looked much sharper and a lot more involved off the left, but I really wouldn't be happy with him starting there all season. He's a better option than Edozie anyway, who is all fart and absolutely no shit. Not a shred of end product.

Adams simply has to start until we get someone else in, and preferably for the season as I think he's probably better than Piroe. Just eat the £10m and if we get promoted, offer him a decent wedge to be our backup striker. If we don't, then he'll easily get a PL move regardless.

[Chewy]

Well that wasn’t dull.
The bad stuff

Not sure I watched the same match as everyone else but why the love in for Charlie today? Thought he offered little first half, and his pathetic attempt at tracking back was made to look even more crass when ArmA sped past him at twice the speed (literally - I’m not joking) to make a saving tackle. He looked threatening late on but was greedy with one of his shots where a pass would have been better.

I like Charlie and he is still young but this was not one of his better days.

Defence was awful, obviously. Stephens palmed his man off to Manning leaving Mannings man free  to cross for their first goal, which was a free header. Another free header from a corner, conceded because Edozie didn’t track the simplest of runs down the flank. A calamity of a 4th (wrong end but understand it was Manning) and a stroll through the entire centre of our midfield and defence for their second.

Dreadful.

We also got away with three other complete gifts at the back, one each for Jan, Jack and Shea Charles (who was otherwise solid in his debut).

Baz was actually blameless for any of the goals, but pitiful for their disallowed effort. His inexperience isn’t helping our defence get organized, his defense being so shite isn’t helping him. Plus ca change.

Defensive shape also a major issue - we basically played with 2 10s (inside forwards if you will) and 2 wingers. In itself brave - but when you do you probably need a destructive number 6, not a play maker. I actually loved the way Smallbone played and knitted stuff together but he can’t be at 6 with 2 10s, especially when neither can or will track back.

The good stuff

Stu - best I’ve seen him in ages; he’s poor at the defensive elements but is a class above at this level, in this form. ArmA - not a fan and he’s not the right 9 for this system (IMHO) but given his torrid run of form I’ll give him massive credit for both pens. He worked very hard too once shunted out to the wing.

Che looked a handful, Edozie bright and occasional product; Tella was a bit quieter but still is an obvious threat. SAA also looked great - I give him half an assist for the KWP penalty by scaring the shit out of them and creating the space. He’d barely been on 5 mins and they were petrified.

Overall

We have a losing mentality, shit players and shit tactics to recover from and it’s going to take time so I’m going to stay patient. Some of our play was genuinely great to watch. We carry a threat, and even better we carry threats all over now, with a couple of options from the bench too. We will also play many sides worse than Norwich this season. And we rallied from behind 3 times.

Definitely things to be positive about.

But … defend like that all season and we won’t be going up. Good job too cos if we played like that in the premier league we’d be adding many more 9-0s. The center backs are not good enough. I’d hoped they would be at this level but clearly not. Or at least not if they are expected to play it out and have zero protection. 
The midfield balance needs to be better. Last Friday we had more of a 6/8/10 combination and it was more solid. I think Smallbone will be fine as an 8, think we need one of Stu or Charlie, not both (unless chasing a game) and need a proper 6. We need one of our cbs and gk to have real presence and status - none of them have it and it’s killed us for years.

I think the club are sticking with Baz whether we like it or not, so just pray that conceding 7 goals in the last 2 games focuses the mind on where to start spending our money - and fast. If we’re not getting a new gk we need a new cb or 2 pretty damn quickly.

An exciting game, lots of positives and lots to look forward to I think, but a reminder of how much needed turning around and that it’ll take more than 5 weeks to do so.

[captainchris]

13 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

They stunk under Dean Smith and like Saints still are post later Ralph era/Jones it takes time to clear the stench of neglect. Good squad for this level on paper, somewhere 5th to 10th. Sara is a serious player who as well as Alcaraz did today was better and Sargent miles better than anything we have in the forwards department bar Che. Which having spent nearly £20m on Onachu and £11m on Mara should result in layers of scouting sackings as neither of those two look good enough for professional football at any level frankly.

They’ve still got some ex PL malcontents to shift eg Rashica and they done have the depth for top 2 but they should do well and decent test. Better than 13th and what they showed last year.

One advantage is their manager. Martin got comparatively exposed tactically today. Not starting with Shea was a shocking error and it was glaringly obvious before 3pm that the CMs selected are offensive-minded and don’t consistently go with runners or assess what protection the back 4 needs. Downes will help but that quote which makes him out to be a panacea is concerning.
If he messes it up at Plymouth again on the selection and tactics, Wilcox is going to have to intervene and mentor a bit as the club can’t afford to throw games away on random experiments. I like Russell Martin overall but today was naive and he got schooled by an experienced hand at this level, but got away with it. Appreciate it’s not easy with the JWP and Lavia messing about but part of the role for now.
We need to be harder to create chances against and it doesn’t need a £40m transfer fund to cut the crosses out which we’re fizzed in with ten yards of space. Most players in the top divisions can deliver quality if you stand off regularly. KWP should know this from last year as we conceded loads of goals from crosses. 
Let’s hope he’s learned from it and the club get him the new faces to shore up in front of and within the back 4. They should replace Bazanu but wont ideologically so they have to transform what’s in front of him with 300 games of experience and communication.

 

 

Totally…. It’s tactical organisation that needs addressing, not JUST personnel. Matting needs to look in the mirror too….

[Greedyfly]

1 hour ago, Smirking_Saint said:

No I agree, but Im trying to figure out if its him or the system. For example KWP looked a tad overrun at times today too and I think, of their attacks, those that weren’t a set piece initiated from wide areas

So is it that the wide players don’t offer enough protection ? 

Do we need to be better at regrouping on transition ?

Are KWP/Manning just poor 1v1 defenders ?

Or a bit of it all ? Probably early to say
 

I think the defensive personnel has been a big problem for years and still hasn't been upgraded regardless of the system we have played, ESPECIALLY the CBs.  Bear in mind one CB didn't want to be here and one we didn't want.  It hardly screams "brick wall" does it.  And why, for fuck sake, are they all so small/shit in the air?

[vectraman]

Well that was exciting! 
Eight goals and we didn’t lose - I think a draw was a fair result overall. As mentioned our defending was terrible, we have got to sort out our dead ball defending - we look like conceding at every free kick/ corner around the box.

Our side is physically small, we don’t have much height in the side and we struggle because of it. No height up front at all - we get into some nice wide positions around the box in attack, and then have to play it along the ground as there is no physical presence at all. Oh for a Pellé type attacking focus. 
I though Norwich broke at pace and looked dangerous, we always looked vulnerable to their counter attacks. 
Bazunu could not be blamed for the goals - terrible defending for all of them. I really don’t know what the solution at the back is other than replacing both CB’s which isn’t going to happen. No pace in them, poor positioning, non existent marking  we will concede a fair few goals. Definitely going to have some high scoring games - could be a long wait for our first clean sheet!

Enjoyed it, nice to rescue it at the end (kudos Adam Armstrong) kept cool with a good pair of pens, good atmosphere - dare I say it was exciting?! Certainly better than the turgid dog turd we played at home last season. 
Get a big centre back who can organise, a DM who can get stuck in and break up play, and a focus upfront with some physical presence and we will do ok. 
 

 

 

[Chez]

1 hour ago, John B said:

He is young he played in midweek maybe they did not want him to play another 90mins

What was he like midweek? All very well me saying he should have started, but if he was poor at Gillingham it makes sense for Martin to not start him.

Edited 12 August, 2023 by Chez

[Chez]

47 minutes ago, macca155 said:

The take out from this game was the sheer level of dominance Saints had. 30 shots and at times Norwich were defending desperately, collecting multiple cards.

 

That's interesting. Not seen anyone post similar, perhaps too busy slating Baz and focusing on our faults. Forget Norwich, does that dominance not give you confidence about how we will go?

[Chez]

49 minutes ago, RobJones1971 said:

 If we can sort couple of defenders (CB and LB) there is some promise for the season. 

We ain't signing another left back. We have Manning, Perraud, Larios, Small, Djenepo and KWP that can all play there. 

[Chez]

27 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

If Martin wants AA to play then it's got to be on the left really because we just look more dangerous with Adams up top. 

AA down the middle may just be temporary until we sell Che and sign Piroe.

[Miltonaggro]

That was childhood echoes of 78/79 and 79/80 today - you score three we’ll score four, entertaining but does nothing for the blood pressure. The way Norwich cut through us was appalling and exposes our lack of spine both physically and psychologically. Almost like they could score at will. Highlights were both from the bench, Adams who is clearly a fucking handful at this level (right up their central defenders noses) and young Sam, who caused them all sorts of problems during his cameo. Manning willing but lots of blind alleys, KWP and Alcaraz interested in parts but Tella very periferal. Signings on the way and we need them right through the middle. Pray we get a keeper as I think it will cost us crucial games and potentially a rift in the team otherwise. Appreciate the side is a work in progress and a good atmosphere at SMS today. 

[igsey]

I hope we do some penalty practice in training, both of AA's were awful. Gunn should have got the first and the second would have been a simple save if he'd gone the right way. Stick it in the corner!

[Osvaldorama]

5 minutes ago, Miltonaggro said:

That was childhood echoes of 78/79 and 79/80 today - you score three we’ll score four, entertaining but does nothing for the blood pressure. The way Norwich cut through us was appalling and exposes our lack of spine both physically and psychologically. Almost like they could score at will. Highlights were both from the bench, Adams who is clearly a fucking handful at this level (right up their central defenders noses) and young Sam, who caused them all sorts of problems during his cameo. Manning willing but lots of blind alleys, KWP and Alcaraz interested in parts but Tella very periferal. Signings on the way and we need them right through the middle. Pray we get a keeper as I think it will cost us crucial games and potentially a rift in the team otherwise. Appreciate the side is a work in progress and a good atmosphere at SMS today. 

Would love Che to sign a new deal. I know he gets slated on here but I think he’s a great player. Doesn’t stop working hard and is easily lower PL level 

[SambaMaverick]

Just now, Osvaldorama said:

Would love Che to sign a new deal. I know he gets slated on here but I think he’s a great player. Doesn’t stop working hard and is easily lower PL level 

Agreed. Goals are the bottom line but like you say he doesn't stop running and I think he's a lot cleverer than given credit for with the ball at his feet.

[Miltonaggro]

1 minute ago, Osvaldorama said:

Would love Che to sign a new deal. I know he gets slated on here but I think he’s a great player. Doesn’t stop working hard and is easily lower PL level 

Can’t see it, but Norwich defence was shitting bricks with him today, bouncing them. It’s clear that he would score a hatful in champs. 

[Chez]

6 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Would love Che to sign a new deal. I know he gets slated on here but I think he’s a great player. Doesn’t stop working hard and is easily lower PL level 

He wouldn't sign a deal when we were in the Prem. He ain't signing one now unless there is zero interest from Prem sides. 

Edited 12 August, 2023 by Chez

[macca155]

22 minutes ago, Chez said:

That's interesting. Not seen anyone post similar, perhaps too busy slating Baz and focusing on our faults. Forget Norwich, does that dominance not give you confidence about how we will go?

I can't believe people aren't talking about that. Ignoring the fact that we were wide open through the middle for a counter attack, the movement forward was pretty intense. 31 shots, 12 corners. Expected goals was 3.56 to their 2.01, if that counts.

Norwich were a way harder test than Wednesday, they punched back big time, but there were periods when they were on the ropes.

If we keep Tella, Alcaraz, and S Armstrong,  I can see no reason why this trend of dominance doesn't continue. They really are a driving force.

However, waste of time if they don't stiffen up the defense and midfield.

 

[suewhistle]

I was there today and jumping frustratedly at their third goal, and I've just seem the highlights and it was far worse than I thought. Even at grassroots level nobody gets left that unattended in the middle of the box! Lots of work to do defensively to just get the simple things right, which should help enormously. Although we haven't got an effective physical focus in attack if Adams goes I still think we'll have the ability to score.

But oh my, that defensive midfield and defence..