Other Games 23/24

[Lighthouse]

17 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

No, Coventry who just scored 3 goals against a top half Prem team and will be buzzing off their tits if they win the tie now.

A one-off cup tie rarely has any baring on the league form. We all remember Shane Long winning the semi at Anfield. We lost our next game 5-0, then lost the next two after that.

[OttawaSaint]

3 minutes ago, SNSUN said:

Bloody United wankers.  Gutted for Coventry

Fucking VAR. They were robbed of that amazing celebration and now a great memory is a bad one. Such bullshit.

If you want to measure so precisely at one end then you have to measure just as precisely as to when the ball was struck. 

Fucking bullshit!

[Saint_clark]

1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

A one-off cup tie rarely has any baring on the league form. We all remember Shane Long winning the semi at Anfield. We lost our next game 5-0, then lost the next two after that.

The playoffs are one off ties though.

[BotleySaint]

I think Coventry were a tad lucky with their late penalty in normal time. Wasn't much the defender could do. 

The disallowed goal sort of evened it out. But I think given the magnitude and how fine a margin, it should have been given as a goal.

Penalties are 50/50.. 

Absolutely heartbreaking for Coventry fans and football. Another dull all Manchester final lies ahead.. 

[Toussaint]

Just now, OttawaSaint said:

Fucking VAR. They were robbed of that amazing celebration and now a great memory is a bad one. Such bullshit.

If you want to measure so precisely at one end then you have to measure just as precisely as to when the ball was struck. 

Fucking bullshit!

The first bit is arbitrary which makes it a nonsense, what if it was united that had scored it? Different outcome??

[Lighthouse]

Just now, OttawaSaint said:

Fucking VAR. They were robbed of that amazing celebration and now a great memory is a bad one. Such bullshit.

If you want to measure so precisely at one end then you have to measure just as precisely as to when the ball was struck. 

Fucking bullshit!

At least VAR actually got it right. On another day without VAR, Wright could have been half a yard onside and the lino would have chucked his flag up anyway. If we'd conceded that goal and VAR had said, "ah well, it's only just offside, so we'll let it stand," people would be fuming.

[saintant]

16 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

It may only have been inches but those are the rules and he was offside. Gutted for Coventry as that'd have been a great FA Cup moment.

But those lines prove nothing because it's when the ball is kicked. When it is that tight surely the goal should be given. It ruins a legendary moment in football. I know it's not the case but you almost feel the FA wanted a Manchester derby for the Final. Gutted for Coventry. 

[Lighthouse]

1 minute ago, saintant said:

But those lines prove nothing because it's when the ball is kicked. When it is that tight surely the goal should be given. It ruins a legendary moment in football. I know it's not the case but you almost feel the FA wanted a Manchester derby for the Final. Gutted for Coventry. 

The screen we see shows thicker lines than the ones used by the VAR, because they have to be visible to a TV audience. The actual lines drawn are probably much more clear cut than they appear to us.

[trousers]

8 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

At least VAR actually got it right.

How do you know they got it "right" when the camera frame rate isn't quick enough to determine the precise moment the ball was struck? It's a flawed system for marginal decisions. 

Edited 21 April, 2024 by trousers

[Lord Duckhunter]

10 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

Fucking VAR. They were robbed of that amazing celebration and now a great memory is a bad one. Such bullshit.

If you want to measure so precisely at one end then you have to measure just as precisely as to when the ball was struck. 

Fucking bullshit!

So you wanted the game to be decided by an off side goal? 

[Jimmy_D]

I’m not even sure they’ve drawn the lines correctly. Looks the defender’s shoulder is further back than the toe they’ve drawn the line at to me.

[Lord Duckhunter]

10 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

The first bit is arbitrary which makes it a nonsense, what if it was united that had scored it? Different outcome??

No

[BotleySaint]

Just now, Jimmy_D said:

I’m not even sure they’ve drawn the lines correctly. Looks the defender’s shoulder is further back than the toe they’ve drawn the line at to me.

This is why VAR ought to be used to rule out the really obvious errors and not offside by half a pixel.

[OttawaSaint]

1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

So you wanted the game to be decided by an off side goal? 

I don't think it was conclusive it was offside. They drew a line but the ball was egg shaped in the frame, so not the exact moment it was kicked.

[aintforever]

I would class that as in line given the limitations of VAR, I’m usually in favour of it but these hairline offsides are bollocks.

[trousers]

1 minute ago, OttawaSaint said:

I don't think it was conclusive it was offside. They drew a line but the ball was egg shaped in the frame, so not the exact moment it was kicked.

Indeed. I'm not sure why some people find it difficult to understand this....

Edited 21 April, 2024 by trousers

[Graffito]

3 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

So you wanted the game to be decided by an off side goal? 

Of course. didn’t you?

[SNSUN]

 

Re-drew the lines as per VAR. Clear offside. 😛

[aintforever]

3 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

I don't think it was conclusive it was offside. They drew a line but the ball was egg shaped in the frame, so not the exact moment it was kicked.

This. It’s impossible to tell from that freeze frame wether the ball is touching his foot or wether it’s a split second after it left the foot.

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, trousers said:

Indeed. I'm not sure why some people find it difficult to understand this....

Wasn’t it proven that the ball moves quicker than the camera can track from when it’s kicked to when the player is on or offside so there it will be inaccurate by a fraction, I think it was 13cms was the actual figure. 

 

Edited 21 April, 2024 by Turkish

[trousers]

Just now, Turkish said:

Wasn’t it proven that the ball moves quicker than the camera can track so there it will be inaccurate by a fraction, I think it was 13cms was the actual figure 

 

Yep, rings a bell. The system is flawed for marginal decisions. End of! 

[Lord Duckhunter]

What’s that dopey bird on about. “We got the final everyone wanted ” 😂😂 

[Saint_clark]

Just now, Lord Duckhunter said:

What’s that dopey bird on about. “We got the final everyone wanted ” 😂😂 

They can't seriously be that detached from what fans really think?

[Midfield_General]

That's one of the cruellest defeats I think I've ever seen

[Badger]

15 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

They can't seriously be that detached from what fans really think?

I think yes, the pundits, FA, and Premier League are detached and actually believe fans only want the shit they serve up focussing on the big six etc.

Whilst we want promotion to see Saints play at the highest level they can, it’s nice to be removed from the media circus, and put it on “ignore”.

[S-Clarke]

That was the most pointless FA Cup Semi Final win ever, the Utd players knew how much they fucked that and how undeserved it was in the end - they didn't even run over to celebrate with Rasmus when he scored, all very odd for them.

The right result would have been a Cov win after the way they got back into it, but I guess we now get to see Utd pulverised by their neighbours. The money makers in the FA will love it though, will generate the bean counters more money than a City v Cov final.

[SaintNewForest]

53 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

A one-off cup tie rarely has any baring on the league form. We all remember Shane Long winning the semi at Anfield. We lost our next game 5-0, then lost the next two after that.

In fairness, that 5-0 defeat had Harry Lewis in goal, Florin Gardos at CB and Lloyd Isgrove starting up front; no wonder that knocked us off our high 🤪

[TheAlehouseBrawlers]

30 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

That's one of the cruellest defeats I think I've ever seen

United have history with these sort of things

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39018813

[benjii]

6 minutes ago, SaintNewForest said:

In fairness, that 5-0 defeat had Harry Lewis in goal, Florin Gardos at CB and Lloyd Isgrove starting up front; no wonder that knocked us off our high 🤪

Christ!

[Jimmy_D]

49 minutes ago, SNSUN said:

 

Re-drew the lines as per VAR. Clear offside. 😛

The genuine one doesn’t look much better. Looks like they literally put the line over the top of his foot.

[Midfield_General]

12 minutes ago, TheAlehouseBrawlers said:

United have history with these sort of things

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39018813

Oh I know. I was there. I think that's why I'm feeling their pain. Always felt us and Cov were quite similar clubs, too. 

[Lighthouse]

15 minutes ago, SaintNewForest said:

In fairness, that 5-0 defeat had Harry Lewis in goal, Florin Gardos at CB and Lloyd Isgrove starting up front; no wonder that knocked us off our high 🤪

Even if you chalk that one off, the ‘high’ we got from getting to the cup final included defeats against Swansea and West Ham.

[pingpong]

Surprised prem players aren't wearing green boots, it would give them an extra pixel or two for these kinds of decisions.

[RedArmy]

Can’t imagine how I’d feel if I was a Coventry fan. 
 

All the shit they’ve had to go through with SISU and having to play their home games in Northampton and Birmingham. 
 

It must have been one of the most unbelievable feelings to come back from 3-0 down and think they’d got to an FA cup final in stoppage time of extra time and then have it taken away because a cm of his boot was possibly offside. 
 

Fuck VAR. 

[sfc4prem]

7 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

Can’t imagine how I’d feel if I was a Coventry fan. 
 

All the shit they’ve had to go through with SISU and having to play their home games in Northampton and Birmingham. 
 

It must have been one of the most unbelievable feelings to come back from 3-0 down and think they’d got to an FA cup final in stoppage time of extra time and then have it taken away because a cm of his boot was possibly offside. 
 

Fuck VAR. 

It's mental. Offside was made to prevent goalhanging, not millimetres of a boot being past the last defender.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

Some clown on radio 5 said that now "it will be a proper final"

[Lighthouse]

13 minutes ago, sfc4prem said:

It's mental. Offside was made to prevent goalhanging, not millimetres of a boot being past the last defender.

How many mm offside should count as offside, in your view?

[The Kraken]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

Wasn’t it proven that the ball moves quicker than the camera can track from when it’s kicked to when the player is on or offside so there it will be inaccurate by a fraction, I think it was 13cms was the actual figure. 

 

 

1 hour ago, trousers said:

Yep, rings a bell. The system is flawed for marginal decisions. End of! 

I seem to recall that they increased the margin of error from this season, they made the lines bigger so that it’s not as marginal as it was. 

The problem with VAR is that once you introduce it as a supposedly factual system, you eliminate the notion of benefit of the doubt in favour of the attacker. And besides, people often say that they’d prefer to see decisions like today not given, but if it’s your own side it gets given against and it looks “factually” as if its probably offside, you’re probably going to be asking why. I’m just glad we don’t have it in the championship. But I still remember that Wembley final and the shocker of a decision to award offside, I’d have liked VAR then.

TBF for the decision today I was a bit surprised the lines got drawn so close, from the freeze frame I thought it was offside by a little bit.

[Turkish]

Offside?

[The Kraken]

55 minutes ago, Jimmy_D said:

The genuine one doesn’t look much better. Looks like they literally put the line over the top of his foot.

The lines for tv are just illustrative and made bigger, the lines used in the studio are supposedly much thinner and “more accurate”.

I still wouldn’t trust our VAR officials as far as I could throw them. There was a reason none of them made the World Cup, bloody hopeless.

[saintant]

2 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

The screen we see shows thicker lines than the ones used by the VAR, because they have to be visible to a TV audience. The actual lines drawn are probably much more clear cut than they appear to us.

Not a great system then is it!

[East Kent Saint]

52 minutes ago, pingpong said:

Surprised prem players aren't wearing green boots, it would give them an extra pixel or two for these kinds of decisions.

They could paint their boots with a grass toe cap design 🙂

[Turkish]

12 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

The lines for tv are just illustrative and made bigger, the lines used in the studio are supposedly much thinner and “more accurate”.

I still wouldn’t trust our VAR officials as far as I could throw them. There was a reason none of them made the World Cup, bloody hopeless.

There is also the big club factor too. I know some will laugh if off but even the Premier league chairman came out an awhile back and said the premier league needs a strong Man United. With the game being all about money and the TV audience United v city is a much more appealing game than city v Coventry. You rarely see these marginal decisions go against the big clubs do you 

[saintant]

If you need to draw lines to prove a player is offside by 0.000000001 mm then it is a ridiculous system that is not fit for purpose. Use it only to rectify clear and obvious errors where an official has got it wrong and we can all see a player was offside from a replay without drawing bloody lines. Change the rule to that and it's the same for everyone . It's obviously not a fool proof system so let's have some common sense and stop all this nonsense.

[Lighthouse]

12 minutes ago, saintant said:

Not a great system then is it!

Why not, I don't get your point? The people making the decisions have access to more information than the casual viewer on TV, plus the lines we see are drawn thick enough to be seen by everyone watching. The system is fine, it's the rule that needs changing. Have offside taken from the position of the players feet and add a 6 inch 'benefit of the doubt' zone. If you're 1mm beyond that you can have no complaints.

Say what you want about this game, Coventry got a much fairer deal than we got in 2017 without VAR.

[Lighthouse]

5 minutes ago, saintant said:

If you need to draw lines to prove a player is offside by 0.000000001 mm then it is a ridiculous system that is not fit for purpose. Use it only to rectify clear and obvious errors where an official has got it wrong and we can all see a player was offside from a replay without drawing bloody lines. Change the rule to that and it's the same for everyone . It's obviously not a fool proof system so let's have some common sense and stop all this nonsense.

So how offside do you need to be in order to be offside? What's the exact distance, in your opinion.

[richardc]

33 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

How many mm offside should count as offside, in your view?

how about 10 - what difference would that make to the game in your view

[Lighthouse]

2 minutes ago, richardc said:

how about 10 - what difference would that make to the game in your view

Wright was at least 20mm and everyone is complaining 🤷‍♂️

[saintant]

8 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

So how offside do you need to be in order to be offside? What's the exact distance, in your opinion.

I already said - it needs to be clear enough whereby nobody needs to be drawing lines. I'm sure that would be simple and effective.

Edited 21 April, 2024 by saintant

[sfc4prem]

38 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

How many mm offside should count as offside, in your view?

I think it should be left to the judgment of the linesman. Really, it's about preventing attackers gaining an advantage, isn't it?

I disagree with the mathematically precise football trying to be implemented. If you can clearly see the bloke is offside, call it. If it isn't clear, let's call it onside. Leave the laser lines to tennis.