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Sheffield Weds 1-2 Saints - Match Thread


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56 minutes ago, Kermitzasaint said:

Excruciating game to watch. Even the pundits said the style is set to aggravate the opposing team. Well it worked. Massive possession at a snails pace meant a very ponderous attack, having to beat 11 players around their box.

If this is what they're aiming for then we will not be coming straight back up again. Wednesday were awful yet still posed a threat once we lost possession. 

 

Result was positive but that was it. Meaningless passing for the sake of it.

So you say passing is meaningless what do you suggest just give it to the opposition who I expect will not give it back.

 

Keeping the ball frustrates the opposition who tend eventually to make a mistake

 

The great Liverpool teams managed by Paisley used to do it very well when I used to watch them down the Dell many many years ago

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19 minutes ago, Stripey McStripe Shirt said:

Does seem very odd that it has been credited to Armstrong. Surely, it it touched him, it should only be classed as a deflection given that I'm pretty sure Tella's shot was on target.

If it really was AA's goal, then I am intrigued to know if Tella gets credited with the 'official' assist and, far more importantly, whether it can be classified as a successful pass. From what I can see, it doesn't appear on the pass map above for some reason (i.e. assuming there should be another gold star to denote a goal?).

A goal is credited to whatever attacking player touches it last, so Tella gets the assist.  They could follow the same rules for when it deflects of a defender, that if the orignal shot was on target then it gets credited to the shooter.

But then you are getting into the realms what was and wasn't an unintended deflection. They need rigid rules so there is certainty in the betting markets.

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1 hour ago, Kermitzasaint said:

 

 

Result was positive but that was it. Meaningless passing for the sake of it.

So passing the ball incessantly (with 94% accuracy) and denying them hardly any chance to score bar from set pieces is a bad thing? If we have the ball, they don't. City have made a mastery out of doing it. We've put up with a season (if not more) of god awful football - and last night was nowhere near the finished product. I'm sad for any Saints fan who isn't feeling some sort of joy this morning at that performance. The attacking side will get better in due course but the fact of the matter is that was 5 weeks of learning a new style from scratch, we were dominant and we won.

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8 minutes ago, SNSUN said:

So passing the ball incessantly (with 94% accuracy) and denying them hardly any chance to score bar from set pieces is a bad thing? If we have the ball, they don't. City have made a mastery out of doing it. We've put up with a season (if not more) of god awful football - and last night was nowhere near the finished product. I'm sad for any Saints fan who isn't feeling some sort of joy this morning at that performance. The attacking side will get better in due course but the fact of the matter is that was 5 weeks of learning a new style from scratch, we were dominant and we won.

Agreed. That was a total new style to a team that has lost its identity. Last night we had a new identity and it was a joy to watch. Things will continue to improve as well. Genuinely stunned that people could moan about last night. 

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1 hour ago, Kermitzasaint said:

Excruciating game to watch. Even the pundits said the style is set to aggravate the opposing team. Well it worked. Massive possession at a snails pace meant a very ponderous attack, having to beat 11 players around their box.

If this is what they're aiming for then we will not be coming straight back up again. Wednesday were awful yet still posed a threat once we lost possession. 

 

Result was positive but that was it. Meaningless passing for the sake of it.

Ridiculous assessment.

Wednesday didn't "pose" any "threat", they had a few breaks, which will happen with any style of football any team ever plays anywhere. There's no football tactic that completely eradicates the other team ever formulating an attack, ever.

For 6 weeks work after a couple of dreadful seasons, there's no reason to be anything other than hopeful right now. Was a great night out.

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1 hour ago, SNSUN said:

He is too good for this level - but that's why I want him to stay. If no club deem him worth the money, he isn't going to have much of a choice unless he hands in a transfer request and I just don't see him being the sort of person that would do that. We'll see. Even if it's not West Ham I do think that game would have but him on some radars elsewhere.

I also want KWP and Tella to stay but I'm not getting my hopes up. You can see which players are a class above even just after one game. Also Alcaraz didn't look too happy coming off last night - but I'm hoping that was just down to the injury he sustained.

I don't mind players who aren't happy at being substituted. It shows they have some passion and fight. For too long we've been a submissive side that has not looked up for the fight. If players are going to show more grit, determination and a desire to win then I'm all for that. Russell Martin comes across as a nice guy but I reckon there is a bit of steel about him and he is someone who won't tolerate lack of effort or commitment, things we've been missing of late.

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Well done to the team tonight, there’s passing it around aimlessly and getting nowhere as we saw many times last year but what saints did throughout was work the opposition and play with confidence, that injury time game management was outstanding, if that had been say Liverpool they would be talking about it non stop !! 
I thought the boys gelled well, it’s a shame we may lose a couple of players in the transfer window but we just looked good and nice to say after last year. A win at Sheffield Wednesday on a week night is fantastic no matter the division. If we can go through the next few games with more wins and be undefeated it gives us a nice base to work with. Well done 

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1 hour ago, Kermitzasaint said:

Excruciating game to watch. Even the pundits said the style is set to aggravate the opposing team. Well it worked. Massive possession at a snails pace meant a very ponderous attack, having to beat 11 players around their box.

If this is what they're aiming for then we will not be coming straight back up again. Wednesday were awful yet still posed a threat once we lost possession. 

 

Result was positive but that was it. Meaningless passing for the sake of it.

"Meaningless passing" ?

Passing designed to frustrate, create spaces between their players, tire their players and limit the amount of energy we need to expend on defending.

It is the most intelligent football we've played in years.

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4 minutes ago, JCBSaint said:

Well done to the team tonight, there’s passing it around aimlessly and getting nowhere as we saw many times last year but what saints did throughout was work the opposition and play with confidence, that injury time game management was outstanding, if that had been say Liverpool they would be talking about it non stop !! 
I thought the boys gelled well, it’s a shame we may lose a couple of players in the transfer window but we just looked good and nice to say after last year. A win at Sheffield Wednesday on a week night is fantastic no matter the division. If we can go through the next few games with more wins and be undefeated it gives us a nice base to work with. Well done 

Completely agree. Anyone that was “bored” of last nights football or compares it to anything like last season, or wants us to mix it up (aka lump it up the pitch Nathan Jones style) needs to really think back and remember how soul destroying actually watching the last 2 seasons have been. 
 

yesterday was a breath of fresh air in comparison, incredible that vast majority of these players couldn’t pass a ball between them 2.5 months ago. 
 

My only nervousness is over who we lose from tonight’s starting XI or bench before the end of the month and hope we keep it to the minimum. 

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1 hour ago, Kermitzasaint said:

Excruciating game to watch. Even the pundits said the style is set to aggravate the opposing team. Well it worked. Massive possession at a snails pace meant a very ponderous attack, having to beat 11 players around their box.

If this is what they're aiming for then we will not be coming straight back up again. Wednesday were awful yet still posed a threat once we lost possession. 

 

Result was positive but that was it. Meaningless passing for the sake of it.

 

1 hour ago, woodsaint1 said:

Nathan, are you still on here?

https://www.saintsweb.co.uk/profile/14170-kermitzasaint/content/

99% of his/her posts slagging off Hassenhuttl, Selles and Martin but not a single word said against Jones... So not sure how on Earth you came to that conclusion @woodsaint1... ;)

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1 hour ago, Kermitzasaint said:

Excruciating game to watch. Even the pundits said the style is set to aggravate the opposing team. Well it worked. Massive possession at a snails pace meant a very ponderous attack, having to beat 11 players around their box.

If this is what they're aiming for then we will not be coming straight back up again. Wednesday were awful yet still posed a threat once we lost possession. 

 

Result was positive but that was it. Meaningless passing for the sake of it.

Some of what you say is valid. The major point you miss is that we are very much a work in progress. There was far more pass and move last night than we have seen for far too long and that is a good solid base to start from. Moving forward we need to see more clever runs into the channels and opposing penalty box like the one JWP made to set up the goal for Adams. That is how we'll make chances rather than choosing to go down the flanks and cross hopeful balls to our diminutive forwards - we were guilty of trying this too often last night. If we can encourage the clever runs from deeper positions central to goal we will be on to something and will become a very tricky side to play against. I'm sure Martin and his coaches will be working on this aspect of our game. For me the signs were very good and, as to meaningless football for the sake of it, I would draw your attention to our ability to hold the ball and run down the clock during the nine minutes of extra time when, in the past, we would have been in a panic and hoofing the ball at every opportunity. Let's see how this team evolves because that was just game one in a long season.

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Bloody hell, Sheffield is a long way and a bugger to get out of. 
 

But what a performance! Best style of play we have had in years and and it will surely get even better with time. A few more wins might even encourage some of the few true PL level players to stay. 
 

I think I’m going to like this new manager.

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17 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Ridiculous assessment.

Wednesday didn't "pose" any "threat", they had a few breaks, which will happen with any style of football any team ever plays anywhere. There's no football tactic that completely eradicates the other team ever formulating an attack, ever.

For 6 weeks work after a couple of dreadful seasons, there's no reason to be anything other than hopeful right now. Was a great night out.

Not only that, but the Wednesday goal was a first time volley that fell perfectly and was converted with a strike that would go in once or twice in a season.  Beyond that there was nothing much to threaten Bazunu.

There is a question mark or two about the slow build up and multiple passes in non threatening areas - but excruciating?  I don't think so, and there is the suggestion of an identity and style returning to the Club....absent for quite a while.

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I understand not everyone favours possession football but I loved last night. Especially the last 10 minutes which is normally dangerous for the heart when we’re trying (usually failing) to cling onto a lead.

We need more quality in the final third; Edozie is very raw and we don’t have a decent striker (3 years now, and still waiting …) but otherwise we totally controlled the game. We’ll let in goals - every team does. We’ll lose matches we shouldn’t - every team does. But that 11, playing like that, is good for top 6. And from the starting 11 we’re possibly losing JWP (he’d be replaced), KWP (likewise), and possibly improving Edozie for Sulemana; and with Lavia and Tino going we can surely find a striker.

I’m feeling optimistic.

One specific comment, if we do want to be slightly more threatening but risky, Stu needs to play. He was excellent. He’ll lose the ball more but he looked to have a bit of his spark back. Here’s hoping 

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Really happy with last night's performance.

5 weeks in, and we look like a completely different team.

A few wins, and getting goals back from drawing (or losing) positions, will hopefully give us a bit of belief as well, which we massively lacked last season.

As mentioned, we just need some more darting runs into the box now, to confuse defenders.

Last night, especially in the second half, it was like having 10 men with A Armstrong.

We couldn''t get the ball to him, nor was he pulling defenders away, making space in the box.

Not blaming A Armstrong for this, as it was down to us not creating enough options (and confusion) in their area.

Hopefully we can work on that, and keep some of our better players (who looked a class above last night), and we could become a very good team to watch.

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2 hours ago, Kermitzasaint said:

Meaningless passing for the sake of it.

Especially in the 9 mins of injury time. Passing it round was completely meaningless when we should have been letting them have the ball so Baz could get some much needed practice. How will he improve otherwise?

Edited by Golac's Cunning Stunts
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Well into the 98th minute and protecting a lead, Tella down left wing midway into their half, nowhere to go, passes back to Stephens on half way line who received it side on. Last season that was 100% back to Bazunu. Instead he turned and played a diagonal ball to Smallbone in the middle of their half and we were piling on the pressure via a different route.  Totally different mentality and so refreshing to watch.

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Passing back with the intention of drawing out opposing players whom otherwise would be packed tight in an 11-man-sitting-deep tactic. We can then try to pass through them and into the spaces created. Surely this is in no way 'meaningless' passing? Surely very purposeful?

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Meaningless passing is one thing but when it’s done with pace and the ball is moved first time it can at least be half decent to watch. I was a critic of Martin’s style at Swansea but let’s give this time to develop. It’s a long time since I have seen a Saints side so comfortable on the ball. 

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1 minute ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Meaningless passing is one thing but when it’s done with pace and the ball is moved first time it can at least be half decent to watch. I was a critic of Martin’s style at Swansea but let’s give this time to develop. It’s a long time since I have seen a Saints side so comfortable on the ball. 

Completely agree, last night was not meaningless passing at all. Actually much more excited for the season after last nights performance - and not just because of the result, I was resigned to a 1-1 opener and was still feeling good about our prospects. 

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Everyone’s entitled to an opinion I guess, fuck me there are some whoppers on here. 
 

Cliche klaxon:

Rome wasn’t built in a day

end of klaxon alert. 
 

Rome wasn’t built in a day but I do like the foundations being laid by Russell and his team. 

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Firstly, great result, always positive to win away from home I reckon whatever division you're in. 

Secondly, I could only listen along as I was at a family thing. Does anyone know of anywhere I can watch full match replay? I'd like to watch all those lovely passes people seem divided over for myself. Thanks,

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51 minutes ago, trousers said:

 

https://www.saintsweb.co.uk/profile/14170-kermitzasaint/content/

99% of his/her posts slagging off Hassenhuttl, Selles and Martin but not a single word said against Jones... So not sure how on Earth you came to that conclusion @woodsaint1... ;)

Holy hell, I just made the mistake of reading that Kermit prat’s previous posts. He makes alpine saint look like a happy clapper. Must be such a depressed soul to have a continual miserable outlook like that, what a whopper.

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Super stoked with that performance last night, have not seen us control a match that much in a long long time.

That first 20mins was awesome as it really was step change from anything we have done before or shown in pre-season.

Its disappointing that the other team has to be aweful for us to be good, sometimes we make the other team aweful.

The pressing was really good last night as well and when edozie can put it together he will be a big threat as he was skinning more people than predator last night.

Thought entire defence/goalie played well, unlucky with the goal, stephens the ball playing CB, loved that he stepped out of defence multiple times carrying the ball.

Lots of improvement to come, will be better at set pieces as well, out of that team last night only JWP looks like he can leave if west ham stop arguing amongst themselves.

Well done Russell Martin and the coaching staff, great work bro's.

Also laughed at benali getting confused and calling him Martin instead of Russell in the pitchside interview.

 

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For the most part I really enjoyed the match last night. I was a bit concerned at half-time that we would regret not scoring more in the first half and I was worried that those thoughts had proved true when they equalised, but the team stuck to the plan and we got our rewards in the end.

I was really impressed with how we played keep-ball in the 9 minutes of injury time, except for that misplaced / overhit backpass near the end.

RM said before the game that there were still lots of things to work on and I think most of those are in the final third of the pitch, as well as working on defending corners which was really the only thing making me a bit nervous.

Apologies if this echoes other comments elsewhere but I've not read back through all the posts as I saw there were some negative ones being quoted on the last page and really can't be bothered with that. We should be enjoying being Top of the League for 12 hours or so and the first time we've won our opening match in many years.

 

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Just now, waterlooville saint said:

For the most part I really enjoyed the match last night. I was a bit concerned at half-time that we would regret not scoring more in the first half and I was worried that those thoughts had proved true when they equalised, but the team stuck to the plan and we got our rewards in the end.

I was really impressed with how we played keep-ball in the 9 minutes of injury time, except for that misplaced / overhit backpass near the end.

RM said before the game that there were still lots of things to work on and I think most of those are in the final third of the pitch, as well as working on defending corners which was really the only thing making me a bit nervous.

Apologies if this echoes other comments elsewhere but I've not read back through all the posts as I saw there were some negative ones being quoted on the last page and really can't be bothered with that. We should be enjoying being Top of the League for 12 hours or so and the first time we've won our opening match in many years.

 

This is the saints way amigo, should be our club mantra.

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It looks good at the end, but would have been so disappointing to draw that. We know what the Martin playbook is all about, we will struggle for sure against teams sitting back if Armstrong was leading the line. Defensively we looked ok, although not really tested.

And how good was Stu Armstrong when he came on? That was more like 3 years ago. Never had pace but always looking to drive forward. Created a couple of openings and a couple of shots.

The way we saw out injury time was almost faultless.

Positive signs, but lets not get ahead of ourselves. Got to get to the end of the window first.

There will be some frustrating games undoubtedly, but on that showing plenty of promise to show we currently have the tools to challenge for promotion this season.

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1 hour ago, Nolan said:

"Meaningless passing" ?

Passing designed to frustrate, create spaces between their players, tire their players and limit the amount of energy we need to expend on defending.

It is the most intelligent football we've played in years.

It’s intelligent because 90% of the teams we play this year will likely look to frustrate us, sit back and attempt to break.. our older style pressing tactics just won’t be effective 

The change we’ve seen this quickly is insane and it’ll only improve 

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I don't want to get ahead of ourselves, but if some midtable team with donkey centre backs wants to frustrate us by sitting back and inviting us to attack them, we'll tear them, a new one.

If a good side does that, we'll need to improve up front.

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2 minutes ago, Maury Dyer said:

But I am more relaxed now. Hopefully I can laugh when bummouth get stuffed in the prem.

I still quite like them, personally. Haven’t allowed their fans’ invented hatred of us affect my fondness for them. :)
 

Also, Bummouth, that’s clever, that is. 

Edited by niceandfriendly
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I think that performance has sent a powerful message to the rest of the Championship.

We can be got at, sure, but teams may have to open up a bit to do so unless relying on set pieces exclusively. . ( which I think some of the less able teams will actively be planning to do v saints to get a win or draw).
We should be too good for enough to make play offs or automatic promotion is my gut feel. This was not an easy match away to a just up big club noisy stadium on tv in front of the world. Lads passed the test and will be super stoked today I’m sure. 

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Waking up with a nice glow about the result and performance is a strange feeling! Well tougher tests than that and likely lose a few players (and matches) but I really, really enjoyed that last night. It was frustrating at 1-1 and I’m still concerned about our options up front, but overall it was a huge positive step, just complete domination of a league game. Thoroughly good stuff and Rusty Martin seems like a good egg.

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47 minutes ago, jasonb said:

Firstly, great result, always positive to win away from home I reckon whatever division you're in. 

Secondly, I could only listen along as I was at a family thing. Does anyone know of anywhere I can watch full match replay? I'd like to watch all those lovely passes people seem divided over for myself. Thanks,

Replying to my own post as I did some more searching and found a full replay here: https://wolfstream.tv/smsyr714dpc4/SW_vs_STON_-_Full_Coverage.mp4.html

I haven't watched it all yet but skipped through and it seems like its the full broadcast for those that missed it like me. I'll bookmark this site for the future too. 
Thanks, 

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39 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Holy hell, I just made the mistake of reading that Kermit prat’s previous posts. He makes alpine saint look like a happy clapper. Must be such a depressed soul to have a continual miserable outlook like that, what a whopper.

More like kermitzaskate I suspect. I can't believe any genuine Saints fan would have found last night excruciating.

Clearly it's still a work in progress and we do need more cutting edge up front, but compared to the dross of recent seasons there were so many positives last night.

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First game of the season non winning hoodoo broken.

 

Away from home generally tougher than home games.

 

Taking on a team who got promoted last season who were carrying a generally winning mentality versus us who got relegated with a losing mentality.

 

Playing a first competitive match under a whole new style of play.

 

Showing resilience in coming back from a set back (who else thought “here we go again, same old Saints” when Wednesday scored their equaliser?!)

 

Completely dominated the game playing some excellent football.

 

Top of the league! 😉

 

A lot of positives to take from the match last night. Not the finished product by some way yet. Still learning and adapting to the new system and invariably some of the components of the team will be moving on but hopefully the recruitment team will bring in players who can slot straight into this team.

 

I’m excited for this season to come and keen to see how we fair after the first 5-6 games.

 

COYS

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3 hours ago, Kermitzasaint said:

Excruciating game to watch. Even the pundits said the style is set to aggravate the opposing team. Well it worked. Massive possession at a snails pace meant a very ponderous attack, having to beat 11 players around their box.

If this is what they're aiming for then we will not be coming straight back up again. Wednesday were awful yet still posed a threat once we lost possession. 

 

Result was positive but that was it. Meaningless passing for the sake of it.

What a load of b*llocks 

Edited by Midlandsaint
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Great to get the win, impressed with the transformation in playing style that RM and the coaching staff have implemented in around a month. Exciting to think it will improve with more time on the training pitch over the next few months. A couple of observations:

- defending set pieces needs to be improved, wasn’t keen on the matchup of Smallbone marking their big centre half who brushed him aside for their goal

- no VAR is brilliant. Celebrate goals properly knowing it won’t be ruined by some lines on a screen

- Adams has to start, loads of times in the first half we got in good wide positions and Armstrong was stood on the penalty spot rather than getting across the front post. Adams does this and we’ll score a lot of goals this way with our style.

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Hopefully we can build on this and make the most of our August fixtures as September seems like it will be pivotal for our season with games against 5 teams fancied for a promotion or playoff spot 

Sunderland

Leicester

Ipswich

Middlesborough

Leeds

we’ll have a pretty good idea of how the season will go after that 

 

 

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Given that we will lose a few more players, probably/possibly JWP, KWP, Che, Lyanco,Tella & Sulemana (Lavia is pretty much gone already!) our absolute priority must be for a striker to finish off our good approach play !

We're reasonably well covered in defence and midfield but if we are to kill games off when on top as we were in the first half yesterday a poacher is necessary !

Jöel Piroe has been mentioned as has a loan for Danny Ings but haven't read much more speculation, just hope that our recruitment team are on the case ??

Enjoyed the game last night and as ever I start the season in confident mood 😇

 

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First of all credit to the Manager and his assistants in bringing in a quite different type of play in a relatively short time and to the players who have embraced the system.

The concern going forward is the likelihood of losing JWP, KWP, Tella and Adams from last nights lineup.

I am also concerned about our lack of height both in defence and attack.

The former allowed their big defender to outjump Smallbone (who has done well for us so far this season as a 'new' recruit) which led to Weds equaliser.

I would like to see more height and physicality up front to provide options for our wide players.

Ideally someone in the mould of Mitrovic who scored for fun at Fulham when they were in the Championship.

Overall though a decent result against a team who wont go down but unlikely to feature in the top half of the table.

Norwich will be an interesting challenge especially as our home form has been dire in recent years.


 

Edited by spyinthesky
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I think we all saw the style last night, for once it wasn't a confused mix of all sorts, the players were totally on board with how to play and the structure was pretty obvious I felt.

Two areas that do need some work, as others have highlighted, are CB and CF. Armstrong was a passenger for most of that game, feels unfair to Tella that he took that goal off of him! Armstrong is good for teams who suck up pressure and hit on the break, but in a team which dominate the ball he is about as useful as a chocolate teapot at this level. He could probably come from wide with another CF up top, but as a  single man through the middle - no, not good enough and never will be. 

The most impressive thing for me though was how we saw that game out, I see neutrals moaning at Wednesday for not going for it - but we didn't let them, they couldn't get near us in those last 9 or so mins and that sort of game management was refreshing to see.

Still way too early to come to any conclusions given that this first 11 will be totally different come September, but the implementation of a clear style was pleasing to see.

Edited by S-Clarke
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That final 9 minute spell at the end, that is the definition if Russell Martin, Under Selles we would have conceded and provabably got a Injury from burn out. 

That was magnificent and I don't think I'd even seen us dominate that much, Wednesday couldn't get anywhere near us.

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