Lowe & Wilde would leave.

[fos1]

And exactly how many shareholders have? And I'm not talking about buying match tickets or funding Statues!

 

I'm asking how many of the SLH shareholders have directly put money into the club?

 

Has LC not given you any response to this yet that you can disseminate to the forum??

 

You obviously no nothing about the history of Jacksons farm !!

or the Gordon Families track record of player sponsorship I could go on, how about 2 exc boxes, tables in the Terry Paine and Channon suite !!

when Lowe left did you see him pay money into club ! no he didnt even contibute to the Ex Directory box !! also two shareholders spent £35,000 of their own money trying to find investment for the club! can you see Lowe or Wilde doing that !!

Edited 27 January, 2009 by fos1
had figure wrong

[trousers]

The forum had a good week last week, there was some sensible debate for a change and a few things seemed to be going on. But a lot of it descended as usual into the same old "forceful opinion stating", and our undying conviction that everyone around this soap opera is a complete idiot.

 

I think we missed something, it just seems like there are a lot of jigsaw pieces around and nobody yet has found out where they start to fit together. We're all useless as we never let any facts get in the way of a good row, but as a lot of these hints have been in the public arena, something's going on.

 

Meeting at Staplewood - my guess JP tells the Board "we doubling our efforts" then tells the Echo what he told the Board. We know the eventual outcome, but maybe other discussions went on, we were confused by the statements, but actually who would say anything different to their boss when they are pulled in for a review and would then tell the first person who asked them what they said at the meeting. But what went on AFTERWARDS, there were hints of more meetings, but we lost that in the "why haven't they sacked JP on the spot arguments.

 

Admin in March or whatever in the Mail & Echo. Now why was that made public? Was it to annoy the Forum again or was there a message being sent to somebody else?

 

Wotte is appointed. Obviously that was just done to annoy us again and fuel more protests. What other reason could there be for not wanting to tie a new manager to a long term contract? An obvious one is the Admin in March so reduce the payments due to employees, why else could that have been? Because Crouch was coming back? Maybe somebody new?

 

Leon lets it be known he was at SMS for a game nobody except nickh had heard about. Why? What was discussed?

 

Mary Corbett appears from nowhere, letting everyone know she is the soul and rightful heir of the club. Obviously she speaks out because she cares or is there a darker motive? Perhaps she is reminding everyone that she should have a seat at the table because of history rather than ability? (Oh by the way did anyone ask about those odd allegations about here part in the downfall of the non-PA bid?)

 

There is a behind doors friendly at SMS. Talks of allegiances, leaks about people being shown round from ground staff.

 

And then today Crouch gets control for 6mil is in the press. Analyse that - his 2mil offer of a loan and then around 4mil to buy up the 45 ish% of the 28million ish shares. So not rocket science , and not anything particularly new there. So WHY.

 

Like I said, there are simply too many odd leaks after months of nothing.

 

What's going on?

 

Either a major deckchair shuffle is really about to happen, maybe the people who want the train set back are trying to build on the fans protests for their own needs, or maybe we really are getting squeezed by the bank and everybody is panicking.

 

I've always stated I am strongly against a simple deckchair reshuffle, because quite simply the whole damned bunch of them should be gone and this will just keep going on and on and on.

 

hmmm

 

Like it

 

All we need is a fly on the Waals and we'd know what was going on....

 

(now, that play on words is borderline intelligent, even if I say so myself)

[Big Bad Bob]

You obviously no nothing about the history of Jacksons farm !!

or the Gordon Families track record of player sponsorship I could go on, how about 2 exc boxes, tables in the Terry Paine and Channon suite !!

when Lowe left did you see him pay money into club ! no he didnt even contibute to the Ex Directory box !! also two shareholders spent £50,000 of their own money trying to find investment for the club! can you see Lowe or Wilde doing that !!

 

I know the Jackson's farm history!

 

And I said directly. 2 exec boxes and tables in hospitality don't count as they take almost as much out of the club as they put in.

 

Is the £50k you referring to the money LC and PT gave Paul Allen's 'agent' as a retainer?? Again not money paid directly into the club!

 

let me rephrase

 

Can you give me an example of one current Shareholder that has said, look we're in the **** financially. Here's a loan on £Xm to help out until things get better?

 

No? Didn't think so?

[Mole]

Crouch needs to wait for administration IMHO.

 

Saints are no different to Coventry and their shareholders gave their shares away.

 

Lowe and Wilde expect Leon to stump up £6mil and they promise to resign. That still would leave them as shareholders who would benefit from the cash injection so Crouch won't do it.

[Weston Saint]

when Lowe left did you see him pay money into club ! no he didnt even contibute to the Ex Directory box !! also two shareholders spent £50,000 of their own money trying to find investment for the club! can you see Lowe or Wilde doing that !!

 

You say he did not pay for his Ex Directors box? Who says so? What evidence.

 

And I thought Pat Trant and Leon Crouch paid £35,000 to "tommac" not the £50,000 you quote, or am I missing something?

 

PM me if you prefer

[Big Bad Bob]

Crouch needs to wait for administration IMHO.

 

Saints are no different to Coventry and their shareholders gave their shares away.

 

Lowe and Wilde expect Leon to stump up £6mil and they promise to resign. That still would leave them as shareholders who would benefit from the cash injection so Crouch won't do it.

 

You still banging the administration drum Tris?

 

No guarantees that LC would be able to get the club via Admin. In fact wouldn't he stand more chance of losing money!

[ottery st mary]

Crouch needs to wait for administration IMHO.

 

Saints are no different to Coventry and their shareholders gave their shares away.

 

Lowe and Wilde expect Leon to stump up £6mil and they promise to resign. That still would leave them as shareholders who would benefit from the cash injection so Crouch won't do it.

 

Also you would have Askham and his mob loitering with intent and bringing Rupert into the fold when it suited...Regardless of promises deals etc...Me I would trust that Mob....NOT.

[Mole]

You still banging the administration drum Tris?

 

No guarantees that LC would be able to get the club via Admin. In fact wouldn't he stand more chance of losing money!

 

Yeah i am still banging the administration drum because it is going to happen.

 

Of the three (Wilde, Lowe and Crouch) Crouch is the richest so in the event of admin he's most likely to buy the club. Of course Lowe could call on his friends to help out but would he really have the stomach to do this?

[Fitzhugh Fella]

You say he did not pay for his Ex Directors box? Who says so? What evidence.

 

And I thought Pat Trant and Leon Crouch paid £35,000 to "tommac" not the £50,000 you quote, or am I missing something?

 

PM me if you prefer

 

 

Rather than snipe or split hairs from the sidelines Ron, perhaps you could provide evidence that Lowe DID contribute to the ex-directors box.

 

Posts like the one you just made do not convince me of your impartiality.

[slickmick]

I

 

Mary Corbett appears from nowhere, letting everyone know she is the soul and rightful heir of the club. Obviously she speaks out because she cares or is there a darker motive? Perhaps she is reminding everyone that she should have a seat at the table because of history rather than ability? (Oh by the way did anyone ask about those odd allegations about here part in the downfall of the non-PA bid?)

 

Originally Posted by slickmick

Dear Mary Corbett,

 

Can you give us your version of events regarding the Paul Allen interest,

because their have been allegations that you were one of those who were creating a stumbling block.

 

Regards,

 

 

Mike

I have spoken personally to Mary re the whole Paul Allen scenario.

 

In a nutshell Tom McLaughlin ™ approached the club and said PA was interested in investing in Southampton and was acting on his behalf. Checks were made and it was established that TM had in the past acted for PA (aircraft leasing) and therefore he was considered to be legit. Before long the execs went cold on the idea once they found out there was nothing in it for them. That meant TM was shunned - even to the point the execs refused him hospitality and he and another had to pay to enter SMS through the turnstiles. Mary, Leon and Co still believed TM could deliver but were frustrated by the facts the execs wanted to scupper the deal. As time went on suspicions grew that TM was not exactly kosher but contrary to reports Mary did not get on any aircraft or make any approaches to PA. She did have a friend however who knew PA slightly and she asked this friend to keep his ear out to see if PA's interest was genuine. Leon and Pat Trant called a meeting with TM who assured them he was still intent on delivering PA. Leon and Pat then paid him a sum of money by way of commission from their own accounts, but within a fortnight TM had reneged on promises and they lost their money. In the end things got nasty with TM which a lot on here can understand.

 

The only thing you could possible level at Leon, Mary and Co is they were sucked in but there again so were most of the fans.

 

 

The respone is from Fitzhall Fella.

Bit worrying that Crouch is conned this easily.

[Gingeletiss]

nickh

Full Member

Join Date: Nov 2006

Posts: 6,891

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by fos1

Lowe could pay back his pay off he received 2 years ago !! That would pay for a couple of loan signings, we all know this is not going to happen, he has only ever taken money out the club in wages, bonuses ! etc never put money in !!

 

Have the former chairman of Woolies paid money back.It doesnt happen. Lm has made shedloads out of our club but he isnt expected to do either.LC is a fan and wealthy man, he would stump up. When the Wilde bunch arrived trant said he'd provide cash but that never arrived .

Too many talk the talk but dont then walk the walk.

You obviously practice what you preach. You post a lot, most of which is nonsence, and without foundation. I have no axe to grind with you Nick, but you obviously have issues with LM-MC-LC etc, but was an avid RL fan. Whilst not doubting you're a Saints fan, I feel we are at opposite side of the spectrum.

[Weston Saint]

Rather than snipe or split hairs from the sidelines Ron, perhaps you could provide evidence that Lowe DID contribute to the ex-directors box.

 

Posts like the one you just made do not convince me of your impartiality.

 

I asked for confirmation because Rod Bransgrove shared the cost of the box, he told me. I just wondered why FOS1 would suggest Lowe did not. Surely that is being impartial? Just trying to correct facts. To much political smearing without evidence from both sides.

[offix]

Lets say Crouch paid the £6M into the club, and then Wilde and Lowe quit as suggested.

 

They'd still be shareholders, what's to stop them coming straight back and chucking Crouch out again?

 

A typical "Lowe" proposal. Stinks like rotten fish, and never made in good faith.

[saintjay77]

Rather than snipe or split hairs from the sidelines Ron, perhaps you could provide evidence that Lowe DID contribute to the ex-directors box.

 

Posts like the one you just made do not convince me of your impartiality.

 

So its ok for rumour to be told as fact as long as its against Lowe and Wilde and its ok for quotes to be read as if they are written by the club and not from the mouths that speak them but its not ok to question it?

 

Most of the "facts" that come out from various people are 9 times out of 10 twists and spin based on rumours leaked by people that stand to gain something.

 

When it was 1st mentioned that Leon was ready to throw a load of money into the club if the others did there was uproar even though Leon knew his offer was designed to make Lowe and Wilde look like pillocks. When Lowe trys a similar tactic there is outrage again.

 

When Rupes ditched Pearson we all went mad and said it was because he didnt choose Ppearson yet if at the end of the season Leon is back in charge many are asking him to ditch Wotte even if he is a success.

 

We cant have 2 sets of rules so we can pick and choose which ones to follow when it suits us most.

[Big Bad Bob]

A typical "Lowe" proposal. Stinks like rotten fish, and never made in good faith.

 

And I reiterate....just like the proposal LC made to RL and MW.

[Scummer]

I asked for confirmation because Rod Bransgrove shared the cost of the box, he told me. I just wondered why FOS1 would suggest Lowe did not. Surely that is being impartial? Just trying to correct facts. To much political smearing without evidence from both sides.

 

Is Rod Bransgrove friends with Lowe then? Didn't know he went to Saints games.

[fos1]

I know the Jackson's farm history!

 

And I said directly. 2 exec boxes and tables in hospitality don't count as they take almost as much out of the club as they put in.

 

Is the £50k you referring to the money LC and PT gave Paul Allen's 'agent' as a retainer?? Again not money paid directly into the club!

 

let me rephrase

 

Can you give me an example of one current Shareholder that has said, look we're in the **** financially. Here's a loan on £Xm to help out until things get better?

 

A loan was offered and declined, not going to get into argument with you because if you believe that paying for boxes and sponsorship is not paying money directly into the club, and it "takes almost as much out of the club as they put in !!! " then perhaps we should get rid of the Excs boxes, as having them must be bad business !!

[Big Bad Bob]

A loan was offered and declined, not going to get into argument with you because if you believe that paying for boxes and sponsorship is not paying money directly into the club, and it "takes almost as much out of the club as they put in !!! " then perhaps we should get rid of the Excs boxes, as having them must be bad business !!

 

So all fans now contribute to the club so they should all have a say in the boardroom!

 

Can you tell me how much it costs in staff to run a Box and food and drink! You know very well what the point of Hospitality is as much as I!

[Scummer]

You know very well what the point of Hospitality is as much as I!

 

What is the point of hospitality then? I thought it was a huge profit-maker? I'd expect them to make something like 60-70% profit on hospitality.

[Frank's cousin]

Rather than snipe or split hairs from the sidelines Ron, perhaps you could provide evidence that Lowe DID contribute to the ex-directors box.

 

Posts like the one you just made do not convince me of your impartiality.

 

Come on Duncan, thats a bit disingenuous - this started because it was alledged Lowe did not contribute to the Box, with no evidence - all Ron did was state well how do you know he did not - to which you reply show us your evidence.... and you think Ron is biassed?????

 

This is like no evidence needed to make an accusation, but loads needed to deny it? Logic? fair?

[Big Bad Bob]

What is the point of hospitality then? I thought it was a huge profit-maker? I'd expect them to make something like 60-70% profit on hospitality.

 

They may make a lot of revenue out of Hospitality but I think you'll find the profit margins aren't that great!!

 

Hospitality is there to help strengthen relationships with customers and suppliers, you scratch our back we'll scratch yours type thing.

 

Companies now tend to use Hospitality as a type of bonus for their staff.

[John B]

Is Rod Bransgrove friends with Lowe then? Didn't know he went to Saints games.

 

Rod is supporting somebody for Chairman of the English Cricket board who apparently a mate of Lowe's Lord Marland

[Big Bad Bob]

Rod is supporting somebody for Chairman of the English Cricket board who apparently a mate of Lowe's Lord ? I will find out his name in a moment

 

Lord Marland (Jonathon to his mates) by any chance??

[ottery st mary]

Rod is supporting somebody for Chairman of the English Cricket board who apparently a mate of Lowe's Lord ? I will find out his name in a moment

 

Lord Marland by chance

[Weston Saint]

Is Rod Bransgrove friends with Lowe then? Didn't know he went to Saints games.

They shared the Ex Directors box last season

[Um Bongo]

Ignore, i'm an idiot.

[ottery st mary]

Lord Marland (Jonathon to his mates) by any chance??

 

We are the clever sods.

[Big Bad Bob]

We are the clever sods.

 

Aren't we just

 

And one of your more lucid moments too

[ottery st mary]

Aren't we just

 

And one of your more lucid moments too

 

Very Lowe jab...but you are right it does not happen very often but then again its been a Wilde day.

 

 

Just to keep on fred before I get shouted at by admin.

[Durleyfos]

Very Lowe jab...but you are right it does not happen very often but then again its been a Wilde day.

 

 

Just to keep on fred before I get shouted at by admin.

 

You ought to Crouch down behind a chair for cover!

[bridge too far]

Rod is supporting somebody for Chairman of the English Cricket board who apparently a mate of Lowe's Lord Marland

 

Rod's allegedly been a naughty boy and has embarrassed his friend Lord Jonathan Marland:

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/jan/27/digger-ecb-marland

 

So that's two of Rupey's buddies who've been a bit 'circumspect' with FSA / Stock Exchange Rules allegedly.

 

The other one being the bloke from Carphone Warehouse allegedly

Edited 27 January, 2009 by bridge too far

[saint lard]

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4078741.Crouch__Why_I_proposed_changes/

 

 

 

Puts some meat on the bones...

Edited 27 January, 2009 by saint lard

[hypochondriac]

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4078741.Crouch__Why_I_proposed_changes/

 

 

 

Puts some meat on the bones...

TBH Crouch is being silly there. It's unrealistic to expect Wilde and Lowe to put in 2 million because they don't have the money. He might as well come and ask me. That isn't to say that they shouldn't step aside for Leon. Any amount of money is welcomed in the present situation.

[Mole]

TBH Crouch is being silly there. It's unrealistic to expect Wilde and Lowe to put in 2 million because they don't have the money. He might as well come and ask me. That isn't to say that they shouldn't step aside for Leon. Any amount of money is welcomed in the present situation.

 

We can only speculate on what finances Lowe and Wilde have available, but my suspician is that Wilde probably isn't in a position to invest but Lowe probably is.

[Wes Tender]

TB Fair Wes' date=' that quote is always taken out of context - he was not saying - give me personally 25 mill for my shares and you can take over - he was saying he would ahppily step down as chairman if there was someone out their willing to put money into the club (eg Sugar daddy role) which would be used to supplement the playing side - not share purchase.[/quote']

 

The whole thing was extremely stupid, as anybody with £25 million could have bought the controlling interest in the club for that amount, even when we were at our peak in the Premiership when Lowe was mouthing off along those lines. The main reason that he said it so openly and often, was to attempt to play up his position into fooling the fan base and others that he owned a considerably bigger % of the club than he actually did. It was an ego boost for him. I suspect that it also assisted in putting off some who might have been interested in investing, but who didn't bother to dig too deep into the shareholding %'s. IMO, Lowe never ever had any intention of giving up control of the club, as for a fairly small investment which he recouped with salary, he was able to raise his profile in the City as one of a handful of Premiership Chairmen. IMO, that is also the main reason for his return apart from protecting his shares, an attempt to remove the egg from his face following our relegation under his stewardship so that he could save face with his contempories in the City.

[70's Mike]

TBH Crouch is being silly there. It's unrealistic to expect Wilde and Lowe to put in 2 million because they don't have the money. He might as well come and ask me. That isn't to say that they shouldn't step aside for Leon. Any amount of money is welcomed in the present situation.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens because if we are in the financial meltdown that is being pictured from SMS then surely this will happen and Rupert/Michael will step down due to Barclays pressure.

However if Rupert has been spinning the financial position to justify following his vision as to how the club should be run then nothing will happen and we can assume that money is not quite as tight as we were led to believe

[hypochondriac]

We can only speculate on what finances Lowe and Wilde have available, but my suspician is that Wilde probably isn't in a position to invest but Lowe probably is.

 

In which case it is silly to propose something that would involve a party investing two million pounds that they don't have

[fos1]

So all fans now contribute to the club so they should all have a say in the boardroom!

 

No not all fans can afford to offer 2million unfortunately, at least he is prepared to put his money into save the club!!

No PR spin as you said yesterday!!

Bob, You can get the Soton Echo in Ringwood as I do !!

But link on Forum now, so you can read for yourself that it was not PR spin yesterday !!

[SB]

Interesting isn’t it,

Anyone else for pop corn?

[Scummer]

We can only speculate on what finances Lowe and Wilde have available, but my suspician is that Wilde probably isn't in a position to invest but Lowe probably is.

 

I'd have thought it was the other way round if anything. Hasn't Wilde got a family trust fund of £100M or so? The Echo revealed it the last time Wilde was supposed to be putting £2M in.

[trousers]

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4078741.Crouch__Why_I_proposed_changes/

 

 

 

Puts some meat on the bones...

 

"Crouch has had an ongoing dialogue with them since October, but the 2-1 home loss to Doncaster forced him to call a meeting between the three largest individual Southampton Leisure Holdings PLC shareholders.

“I put my proposals to them but they obviously didn’t accept them because they went and put Mark Wotte in charge," said Crouch."

 

Erm, perhaps I'm reading too much into this (for once) but if Lowe and Wilde didn't accept Crouch's proposals (which included changing the manager) then why didn't Poortvliet stay in place (whether he was pushed or resigned)?

 

Either they accepted Crouch's proposals or they didn't? All seems a tad coincidental that Crouch come up with a plan which involves changing the manager which is turned down by Lowe and Wilde but the manager change then happens anyway.

 

Lost.

[JohnnyFartPants]

We can only speculate on what finances Lowe and Wilde have available, but my suspician is that Wilde probably isn't in a position to invest but Lowe probably is.

 

Very interesting point. I for one will no longer speculate but will opt to remove the guess work by taking your suggestion as gospel. It seems painfully obvious to me that if we want to know just how much spare capital any business man has, the best thing to do is to ask someone that sits in a football forum all day long. It is my understanding that these people have their fingers on the button in the cut throat world of modern business.

[Snowballs2]

I'd have thought it was the other way round if anything. Hasn't Wilde got a family trust fund of £100M or so? The Echo revealed it the last time Wilde was supposed to be putting £2M in.

 

 

 

Hmmm cannot see see a trust fund trustee agreeing to use the fund for something quite so unpredictable as investing in Saints

[aintforever]

God know's what's going on.

 

Could Lowe be purposely running down the club to force Crouch to buy his shares for a extortionate price? He know's Crouch wont want to see the club relegated.

[Scummer]

"Crouch has had an ongoing dialogue with them since October, but the 2-1 home loss to Doncaster forced him to call a meeting between the three largest individual Southampton Leisure Holdings PLC shareholders.

“I put my proposals to them but they obviously didn’t accept them because they went and put Mark Wotte in charge," said Crouch."

 

Erm, perhaps I'm reading too much into this (for once) but if Lowe and Wilde didn't accept Crouch's proposals (which included changing the manager) then why didn't Poortvliet stay in place (whether he was pushed or resigned)?

 

Either they accepted Crouch's proposals or they didn't? All seems a tad coincidental that Crouch come up with a plan which involves changing the manager which is turned down by Lowe and Wilde but the manager change then happens anyway.

 

Lost.

 

How about: Wilde and Lowe turned down Crouch's plan, but Jan got to hear about it.

 

Realising he didn't have the support of the major shareholder, and bearing in mind the aggro at the last match, JP realises his days are numbered and jumps ship.

 

Lowe decides, as ever, that he knows best and so decides to continue the Dutch experiment by promoting Wotte.

[Frank's cousin]

The whole thing was extremely stupid, as anybody with £25 million could have bought the controlling interest in the club for that amount, even when we were at our peak in the Premiership when Lowe was mouthing off along those lines. The main reason that he said it so openly and often, was to attempt to play up his position into fooling the fan base and others that he owned a considerably bigger % of the club than he actually did. It was an ego boost for him. I suspect that it also assisted in putting off some who might have been interested in investing, but who didn't bother to dig too deep into the shareholding %'s. IMO, Lowe never ever had any intention of giving up control of the club, as for a fairly small investment which he recouped with salary, he was able to raise his profile in the City as one of a handful of Premiership Chairmen. IMO, that is also the main reason for his return apart from protecting his shares, an attempt to remove the egg from his face following our relegation under his stewardship so that he could save face with his contempories in the City.

 

Sorry but I believe it was only said a couple of times in response to those fans wishing he would a) spend some money and b) bugger off.

 

Everyone knew he owned 6% as it was listed in the shareholder register - its also not a statement that would put anyone off who was serious about investing in the club - no serious investor will listen to such statemnets that are so obviously aimed at fans - they do their homework and assess the costs of purchasing a controlling interest.

 

At the end of teh day - if the majority shareholders want him as chairman, that is part of the process irrespective of the shareholding he ghas - we might not think its fair, but thats the way it is. Ultimately, if teh majority of shareholders do not think he is doing the job to the level they require its actually a good thing that his shareholding is so low as it makes it easier for shareholders to remove him.

 

Seriously, and It sums up a lot of things, if those protesting next week really want L0we out, they would be far better in lobbying all the shareholders, inparticular those potential waiverers. The protest on a match day detracts from the importance of the game on which we should all be focussed.

[hypochondriac]

I reckon Crouch spoke to Jan and following that conversation he resigned. Lowe would never give into Crouch though.

[trousers]

How about: Wilde and Lowe turned down Crouch's plan, but Jan got to hear about it.

 

Realising he didn't have the support of the major shareholder, and bearing in mind the aggro at the last match, JP realises his days are numbered and jumps ship.

 

Lowe decides, as ever, that he knows best and so decides to continue the Dutch experiment by promoting Wotte.

 

Yep, that would fit.

 

Can someone confirm the chronology though?

 

i.e. did Crouch approach Lowe and Wilde about 'changing things' BEFORE it had been decided that Jan would leave (either of his own accord or with some 'help') or was it AFTER the Jan decision?

[trousers]

I reckon Crouch spoke to Jan and following that conversation he resigned. Lowe would never give into Crouch though.

 

So, in which case, had Poortvliet waited a few hours to see the outcome of Crouch's meeting with Wilde and Lowe he could well still be here? In other words, he incorrectly assumed that Crouch would be successful with his 'new manager' proposal?

[Scummer]

Yep, that would fit.

 

Can someone confirm the chronology though?

 

i.e. did Crouch approach Lowe and Wilde about 'changing things' BEFORE it had been decided that Jan would leave (either of his own accord or with some 'help') or was it AFTER the Jan decision?

 

As I understood it, the meeting was during the day, JP quit late afternoon/early evening.