Edozie - "Squad Player" - Discuss (Split)

[Baird of the land]

Not convinced by edozie yet

he had a trick(to beat a man) which was interesting but absolutely zero in delivery or shooting.

hopefully he’ll develop into more this season.

[John B]

19 hours ago, egg said:

No. Edozie was crap last year. He was signed to deliver. He didn't. We could go around the houses all day mate, I'll still be of the opinion that he was shit last season. 

Give the bloke a chance 19 years old in and out of a team performing badly it is unsurprising he did not perform well.

 

I doubt he was bought to perform consistently well in the PL in his first season but like Tella hopefully he will be better as he gets older

[Chez]

54 minutes ago, egg said:

I get that, but the split thread and responses has missed the point of the initial discussion...was a transfer policy of signing Man City kids (rather than players ready to hit the ground running) a wise one? My point on Edozie, simply, is that he was signed for and used by the first team last season, but wasn't at the required standard last season. 

The whole discussion (and it is a very interesting one) is about the expectation of these young guys. What do we expect a 19 year old that has not played senior football at Chelsea or Man City to do in our first team on day 1? 

As was explained at the fans forum, we have basically given up trying to sign senior players because all the best ones go to  richer teams, so how do you compete? Instead, the idea is to try to get some of these 'best players' by getting them before they are `famous' (a policy that might be flawed from the outset if the richer teams have all the best young players too - which they do). Buying the top young talent (are we even buying that?) comes at a price. Firstly they ain't cheap, as we have found out, secondly, they will probably not be ready yet as they haven't played mens football, or at the very least not reached their potential and last but not least, some may never reach the level required.

I am not sure whether the club has said whether these young guys are expected to go straight into the first team, be better than what we already have immediately and make an immediate impact. So far, some have, some haven't.

I wonder if the club regard the policy to be a success so far?

 

[Wade Garrett]

13 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Why are you replying to me like I'm endorsing us buying squad players and no one else? I don't agree with the philosophy and the club have said it was a mistake. 

Don’t take it personally, it wasn’t meant that way.

[StrangelyBrown]

3 hours ago, Chez said:

The whole discussion (and it is a very interesting one) is about the expectation of these young guys. What do we expect a 19 year old that has not played senior football at Chelsea or Man City to do in our first team on day 1? 

As was explained at the fans forum, we have basically given up trying to sign senior players because all the best ones go to  richer teams, so how do you compete? Instead, the idea is to try to get some of these 'best players' by getting them before they are `famous' (a policy that might be flawed from the outset if the richer teams have all the best young players too - which they do). Buying the top young talent (are we even buying that?) comes at a price. Firstly they ain't cheap, as we have found out, secondly, they will probably not be ready yet as they haven't played mens football, or at the very least not reached their potential and last but not least, some may never reach the level required.

I am not sure whether the club has said whether these young guys are expected to go straight into the first team, be better than what we already have immediately and make an immediate impact. So far, some have, some haven't.

I wonder if the club regard the policy to be a success so far?

 

I think the problem is that the investment in youth needs to be a multi year strategy with a small number of players being added to the squad each year. The problem last year was that we took a short term high risk approach filling the squad out with a lot of youngsters which was highly unlikely to work.

[Daft Kerplunk]

Some better coaching to develop his end product is needed. He’s still young and has time.

[Chez]

5 hours ago, StrangelyBrown said:

I think the problem is that the investment in youth needs to be a multi year strategy with a small number of players being added to the squad each year. The problem last year was that we took a short term high risk approach filling the squad out with a lot of youngsters which was highly unlikely to work.

OK, but we did sign some senior players. Sadly they were Aribo, AMN, Lis and Cabellero (then Orsic and Onuachu). They contributed very little and the established senior players (we had plenty of those - it's not as though the first team was jam packed full of nippers) weren't great either.

[Ribtickler]

Interesting player, he is a pro at Trivial Pursuit - don’t let him get any Literature…or you might aswell call it a day!
hope he gets more of chance in the lower leagues where his pace will be a nightmare for championships sloggers.

thats all I will say on the matter  

[Osvaldorama]

This thread is genuinely unbelievable. 
 

Some melts on here are acting like a football club has never brought in a young player for the future before. 
 

He was clearly bought with the future in mind, but due to the rest of the squad being utter shite was asked to make an instant impact. Unsurprisingly it didn’t work very well.  Yes he is raw, but he does have genuine pace and a great first touch. 

He could easily become a top player. Or he could fizzle to nothing. Depends how hard he works. But Jesus Christ I hope the young lad never goes on internet to see what the fans are saying. 

[pimpin4rizeal]

14 hours ago, Chez said:

The whole discussion (and it is a very interesting one) is about the expectation of these young guys. What do we expect a 19 year old that has not played senior football at Chelsea or Man City to do in our first team on day 1? 

As was explained at the fans forum, we have basically given up trying to sign senior players because all the best ones go to  richer teams, so how do you compete? Instead, the idea is to try to get some of these 'best players' by getting them before they are `famous' (a policy that might be flawed from the outset if the richer teams have all the best young players too - which they do). Buying the top young talent (are we even buying that?) comes at a price. Firstly they ain't cheap, as we have found out, secondly, they will probably not be ready yet as they haven't played mens football, or at the very least not reached their potential and last but not least, some may never reach the level required.

I am not sure whether the club has said whether these young guys are expected to go straight into the first team, be better than what we already have immediately and make an immediate impact. So far, some have, some haven't.

I wonder if the club regard the policy to be a success so far?

 

The fanbase tend to judge players being shit on next to nothing these days .. Orsic and onuachu written off as dogshit even though both barely featured., edozie only really got starts under jones .. Mara not many either ..

I find it hard to criticise any of them as their chances have just been sooo limited… im pretty sure if edozie had played as many minutes as elyounouusi though he would have been more of a threat ..also very possible if mara had adams minutes he could have scored more goals 

not being selected doesn’t make a player a shit player… it’s not like we really saw any of the above including edozie messing things up or being totally crap ., the managers just for whatever reason just decided to stick with proven shit like moi or preferred adams impact on games to trying strikers that could potentially be more clinical 

Edited 8 July, 2023 by pimpin4rizeal

[egg]

10 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

Jesus Christ I hope the young lad never goes on internet to see what the fans are saying. 

He'd see a few people saying that he wasn't ready last season and didn't deliver, but nobody writing him off. I'm pretty sure he'd agree with that, despite some on here not being able to. 

[aintforever]

18 minutes ago, egg said:

He'd see a few people saying that he wasn't ready last season and didn't deliver, but nobody writing him off. I'm pretty sure he'd agree with that, despite some on here not being able to. 

What do you expect 19 year olds to deliver in The Premier League?

[Osvaldorama]

21 minutes ago, Turkish said:

sports republic seemed to expect it
 

Out of your depth on football topics as well I see. Is there any subject you know something about?

They didn’t expect it at all. They signed Aribo and orsic for experience in his position.

Unfortunately like with all their other decisions so far they fucked it up catastrophically. You can’t blame a 19 year old for that. 
 

They did expect it with Bazunu though. Absolutely shocking management from the club to throw them both in. 

[AlexLaw76]

7 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

They didn’t expect it at all. They signed Aribo and orsic for experience in his position.

Unfortunately like with all their other decisions so far they fucked it up catastrophically. You can’t blame a 19 year old for that. 
 

They did expect it with Bazunu though. Absolutely shocking management from the club to throw them both in. 

One does not really play in his position, and the other signed in january

[Alain Perrin]

I haven't posted in an age but any player (and especially a green 19 year old) will struggle in a team which has no confidence.   

Someone like Edozie could make an impact in a confident team or if they have a wow factor (think Bale's free kicks or Theo's speed).   Fundamentally Saints were crap last year and lacked confidence across the park.  Messi would have struggled!   Hopefully he can kick on.

See you in 4 years.

[Paul Chuckle]

11 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

 

He could easily become a top player. Or he could fizzle to nothing. Depends how hard he works. But Jesus Christ I hope the young lad never goes on internet to see what the fans are saying. 

 

[Osvaldorama]

7 minutes ago, Paul Chuckle said:

 

There are many things that we can slate the club for last season. 
 

Taking a punt on a young star from city’s academy isn’t one of them. He did look good at times as well. I just don’t get why fans have to slate such a young player. 
 

I think it reflects very badly on a few of you. 

[egg]

58 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

They didn’t expect it at all. They signed Aribo and orsic for experience in his position.

Unfortunately like with all their other decisions so far they fucked it up catastrophically. You can’t blame a 19 year old for that. 
 

They did expect it with Bazunu though. Absolutely shocking management from the club to throw them both in. 

Orsic was signed in the window after Edozie. I doubt if he'd have signed of Edozie delivered. 

I'm not sure why you say that there was no expectation ok Edozie to deliver. He was signed for the first team and was regularly picked to play. Of course he was expected to deliver, that much is obvious. 

[StrangelyBrown]

14 hours ago, Chez said:

OK, but we did sign some senior players. Sadly they were Aribo, AMN, Lis and Cabellero (then Orsic and Onuachu). They contributed very little and the established senior players (we had plenty of those - it's not as though the first team was jam packed full of nippers) weren't great either.

Fair point. Although I would argue that we had too many nippers in the team for a lot of the year - we often had 4 or 5 inexperienced youngsters starting.

[Dusic]

21 minutes ago, egg said:

Orsic was signed in the window after Edozie. I doubt if he'd have signed of Edozie delivered. 

I'm not sure why you say that there was no expectation ok Edozie to deliver. He was signed for the first team and was regularly picked to play. Of course he was expected to deliver, that much is obvious. 

He didn't start a PL game until Boxing Day!

It was clear to seemingly everyone part from you that we signed Edozie as a promising player to be part of the first team squad, add an option and to develop him over the long term. He had barely played any senior minutes in his whole career FFS.

He wasn't signed to come in and be an immediate starting XI player hence not starting in league for so long.

I think signing Orsic was in theory to improve the goal threat of the team, as none of the established forward players like Moi, Stu, Adams, Arma, Djenepo, Walcott etc were doing it.

You can add Edozie to the list for sure as part of the group but clearly Orsic wasn't signed in January because Edozie hadn't scored in his 3 PL starts to that point! 

[SaintJackoInHurworth]

Personally, I think Edozie did alright - not spectacular, but alright.

At first we saw a player who offered a lot going forward and who showed skills at running past opposing players, but he then struggled to find someone to pass to, causing his hard work to end in frustration. However, I think that was not entirely his own fault - often it was mainly as a result of other players around him having lost the confidence to move and provide him with an outlet.

Sadly, after a while and despite giving him more opportunitiues at first, Nathan Jones did a great job at undermining his confidence and trying to force him to stop using his skills and instead try to emulate Elyounoussi and Adam Armstrong (though to be fair, in the first instance Jones did seem to appreciate Edozie's directness). However, once he began to be coached to dribble less and just run about headless chicken instead, even the brilliant dribbling ability that he had demonstrated at first disappeared. I don't think Selles had the ability to see how to utilise Edozie's talent and his decision to frequently not even select him on the bench just added to the pattern of undermining Edozie's confidence. Indeed, while I always prefered Selles to Jones, sometimes it just felt like he was picking or not picking players purely to be different than Jones!

With good coaching and encouragement, I am hopeful that Edozie can rediscover his dribbling ability, while players around him will hopefully also develop the confidence to create an outlet for him when he does get past opposing players. I am therefore looking forward to what he will give us this season, if he is given the chance.

[Dusic]

Good to see him play well yesterday, was a big threat all game and had a hand in the winning goal.

Yes his final ball/shot needs improvement but as that improves he will be a major weapon at this level. He had Paterson and Delgado on toast all game and got both booked as they couldn't really handle him 1v1, so created good set oiece opportunities also.

Encouraging signs and good to see that he kept trying to be positive almost every time he got the ball. We don't have many (any?) other dribblers in the team really so he is a nice point of difference especially as so many teams will defend deep.

[CanadaSaint]

He played well but I think he needs a target with some physical presence in the box - it would help him to focus his final delivery. AA is definitely not that kind of visible target. IMO Adams should have been on at least 20 minutes earlier.

[Smirking_Saint]

He’s a good player, an efficient technical dribbler that isn’t afraid to take on a full back and draws so many fouls.. if the set piece coach can nail his brief we’ll benefit from it

He switches off defensively too often (not so much yesterday) and his final ball can be a bit iffy but potentially he is a very good player

[notnowcato]

Excellent game from the young lad. Gave 2 experienced players a torrid time all match. 

[saintwbu]

He’s 20 years old and probably about 20 games into his professional career. I don’t remember us having a player that can beat people with such ease, we need to be patient with him whilst he finds the end product. I’ve always felt a season in the Championship will be great for a number of our players, and he’s one of the main ones I think of. A really great performance last night, the end product will come. 

[rooney]

12 minutes ago, saintwbu said:

He’s 20 years old and probably about 20 games into his professional career. I don’t remember us having a player that can beat people with such ease, we need to be patient with him whilst he finds the end product. I’ve always felt a season in the Championship will be great for a number of our players, and he’s one of the main ones I think of. A really great performance last night, the end product will come. 

Electric pace too.

[James]

He was brilliant last night. Had their full back on toast and I thought it was a big sign of confidence that most of our attacks came down his side despite having Tella on the other flank. If he could sharpen his end product he will be brilliant for us.

[Miltonaggro]

1 hour ago, Dusic said:

Good to see him play well yesterday, was a big threat all game and had a hand in the winning goal.

Yes his final ball/shot needs improvement but as that improves he will be a major weapon at this level. He had Paterson and Delgado on toast all game and got both booked as they couldn't really handle him 1v1, so created good set oiece opportunities also.

Encouraging signs and good to see that he kept trying to be positive almost every time he got the ball. We don't have many (any?) other dribblers in the team really so he is a nice point of difference especially as so many teams will defend deep.

Good summary. You could tell he was enjoying himself against the limitations of Sheffield Wednesday, a thoroughbred against hacks. Thing missing currently is decision making, but that takes time with young players. You could see that Martin was frustrated with Edozie several times in this regard, but it’s inexperience rather than lack of ability, and Martin will know that. Give the lad games, coach him, and for God’s sake buy that missing link of a target man (literally a target man in SE’s case) and he will likely emerge as a key player this season. 

[waylander]

Looked very good and will trouble a lot of defenders. Needs better options to pass to in the box, our forwards and AMs need to be there to give him better passing options

Edited 5 August, 2023 by waylander
typo

[FarehamSaintJames]

Looked at his level last night, clearly has something about him.

Needs to add goals and assists to his game rather than just doing someone in a one on one down the wing.

[egg]

He's in the above average category for me, and definitely someone we can improve upon. He just doesn't get his head up enough, and when he does, he seems unable to see what's going on and makes poor decisions on terms of using the ball. It's easy to see why City let him go. Squad player at best for me. 

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

He's in the above average category for me, and definitely someone we can improve upon. He just doesn't get his head up enough, and when he does, he seems unable to see what's going on and makes poor decisions on terms of using the ball. It's easy to see why City let him go. Squad player at best for me. 

Surely he will be replaced my Ameyew in time? 

[Miltonaggro]

16 minutes ago, egg said:

He's in the above average category for me, and definitely someone we can improve upon. He just doesn't get his head up enough, and when he does, he seems unable to see what's going on and makes poor decisions on terms of using the ball. It's easy to see why City let him go. Squad player at best for me. 

It’s all about that final decision / ball, end product. If Martin can coach that in and provide a clear target in the box we will likely have a player. 

[egg]

3 minutes ago, Miltonaggro said:

It’s all about that final decision / ball, end product. If Martin can coach that in and provide a clear target in the box we will likely have a player. 

Looking up, seeing play and making decisions is something that good players develop early. The kid hasn't developed those basics yet, so you've got to wander if he can. There's the makings of a bloody brilliant player, but a winger who doesn't score or create isn't an effective winger regardless of how exciting they look with the ball at their feet. For me he flatters to deceive. 

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, egg said:

Looking up, seeing play and making decisions is something that good players develop early. The kid hasn't developed those basics yet, so you've got to wander if he can. There's the makings of a bloody brilliant player, but a winger who doesn't score or create isn't an effective winger regardless of how exciting they look with the ball at their feet. For me he flatters to deceive. 

I’d expect Sulemana to play ahead of him if he stays but you’re right he reminds me of that player we all played with that was brilliant in training and at 5 a side, had loads of tricks and skills but couldn’t cut it at 11 a side. There is a good player in there but he seems to lack that in game vision which makes all the difference between a show pony and someone who is effective 

[Saint_clark]

In this league he'll win us a lot of freekicks and penalties before we even get to whether he can actually create for us. Personally, I think he'll get better and better the more he plays. 

[spyinthesky]

He needs to practice shooting and work better against the ball.

That said he could turn into a decent asset

[Lord Duckhunter]

4 hours ago, egg said:

He's in the above average category for me, and definitely someone we can improve upon. He just doesn't get his head up enough, and when he does, he seems unable to see what's going on and makes poor decisions on terms of using the ball. It's easy to see why City let him go. Squad player at best for me. 

I agree. Was pretty anonymous for long periods of the second half when the full back defended a bit more aggressively & had some help. I’m sure sides will double up on him, give him some clog and generally get in his face. If he can overcome that, then maybe he may turn out to be as good as people hope. But I’m not convinced yet. 

[Dusic]

1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I agree. Was pretty anonymous for long periods of the second half when the full back defended a bit more aggressively & had some help. I’m sure sides will double up on him, give him some clog and generally get in his face. If he can overcome that, then maybe he may turn out to be as good as people hope. But I’m not convinced yet. 

I actually thought second half he was pretty much our only threat for most of it.

He had a big role in the winning goal which was a great team move but he was the player who committed defenders and opened up a bit of space.

Totally get that he is nowhere near a finished article but his potential is extremely obvious and whilst his decision making may not be natural, his ability to glide easily past opponents is also something inate rather than overly coachable. If he did it all then we would never have signed him because he would be in the City first team.

Tella had shown pretty much no end product until last season in the Championship and I think Edozie could be a big player for us this season. Promising start for sure.

[Noodles34]

The PL was too much for him and on last night's showing, i reckon the Championship is as well. Just looks like a player that might have got away with kicking and running in the youth teams, but needs more than that at this level. It's all very well being a threat because he saw a lot of the ball and was running at the FB, but he just lost the ball so often and never really produced anything worthwhile. It's early days, but it's a No from me for the first team, would much prefer S Armstrong, though he isn't as wide of course. 

[Osvaldorama]

2 hours ago, Noodles34 said:

The PL was too much for him and on last night's showing, i reckon the Championship is as well. Just looks like a player that might have got away with kicking and running in the youth teams, but needs more than that at this level. It's all very well being a threat because he saw a lot of the ball and was running at the FB, but he just lost the ball so often and never really produced anything worthwhile. It's early days, but it's a No from me for the first team, would much prefer S Armstrong, though he isn't as wide of course. 

Just an absolute shit post & opinion. 
 

The guy had the full back on toast. He’s inexperienced and lacks final product, but clearly has huge potential. 

[The Cat]

I love his technical ability and body movement when he is on the ball. If he adds more end product he could become a stand out player.

[Saint86]

He's got a lot of skill, needs to learn some composure for the final product in the box, and he's far too weak currently. If he can improve both of those aspects he's got a bright future.

[Whitey Grandad]

Very exciting but got kicked around a lot last night. He deserved better protection from the referee. I suspect we shall have to get used to this sort of ale house physicality.

[davefizzy14]

Edozie is very exciting to watch

[Noodles34]

1 hour ago, Osvaldorama said:

Just an absolute shit post & opinion. 
 

The guy had the full back on toast. He’s inexperienced and lacks final product, but clearly has huge potential. 

Sorry for having an opinion on a forum 💁🏻‍♂️

[Holmes_and_Watson]

4 hours ago, Noodles34 said:

The PL was too much for him and on last night's showing, i reckon the Championship is as well. Just looks like a player that might have got away with kicking and running in the youth teams, but needs more than that at this level. It's all very well being a threat because he saw a lot of the ball and was running at the FB, but he just lost the ball so often and never really produced anything worthwhile. It's early days, but it's a No from me for the first team, would much prefer S Armstrong, though he isn't as wide of course. 

I thought that when Stu came on, we got to see other parts of Edozie's game. Stu's strengths in direct passing/ attacking allowed Edozie to switch from taking on/ beating opponent/ drawing fouls to moving into space beyond the defender. Stu was drawing one or two towards him, and then using Edozie's runs in behind. I thought this was a really good combination, I'd like to see more of.

So, when our oppnents shut one down JWP/ KWP who were doing really well in the first half, we have other pairings in the team who link up well, to cause problems.  So, not Stu on for Edozie, but Stu on for Alcaraz and being a litle more central.

Edozie caused problems, but the final ball was lacking. He got better after some views expressed from the technical area regarding his composure. As his opposing defenders tired, and he got more support from Stu, he looked better still. When we no longer needed someoen to take on opponents (and had Stu on if we wanted to, it was right that Aribo came on.)

I don't mind so much if he loses the ball, taking on a man. That's something he'll have been instructed to do. It's difficult, and if instructed, it's up to Martin and staff to make sure that there's cover if/when the ball is lost. It's up to them to show Edozie when to do it, and when to pass. It's up to Edozie to relax and get a better final ball in, after he gets past a man. He'll develop, and has done a bit from last season. On the other flank, Tella offers a more direct threat, and there were times he could have passed it to better effect. So, everyone is developing. Hopefully, regardless of the comings and goings, Edozie will get room to develop this season. The Championship is just the level to test him, and bring him on a lot quicker.

[Noodles34]

1 hour ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

I thought that when Stu came on, we got to see other parts of Edozie's game. Stu's strengths in direct passing/ attacking allowed Edozie to switch from taking on/ beating opponent/ drawing fouls to moving into space beyond the defender. Stu was drawing one or two towards him, and then using Edozie's runs in behind. I thought this was a really good combination, I'd like to see more of.

So, when our oppnents shut one down JWP/ KWP who were doing really well in the first half, we have other pairings in the team who link up well, to cause problems.  So, not Stu on for Edozie, but Stu on for Alcaraz and being a litle more central.

Edozie caused problems, but the final ball was lacking. He got better after some views expressed from the technical area regarding his composure. As his opposing defenders tired, and he got more support from Stu, he looked better still. When we no longer needed someoen to take on opponents (and had Stu on if we wanted to, it was right that Aribo came on.)

I don't mind so much if he loses the ball, taking on a man. That's something he'll have been instructed to do. It's difficult, and if instructed, it's up to Martin and staff to make sure that there's cover if/when the ball is lost. It's up to them to show Edozie when to do it, and when to pass. It's up to Edozie to relax and get a better final ball in, after he gets past a man. He'll develop, and has done a bit from last season. On the other flank, Tella offers a more direct threat, and there were times he could have passed it to better effect. So, everyone is developing. Hopefully, regardless of the comings and goings, Edozie will get room to develop this season. The Championship is just the level to test him, and bring him on a lot quicker.

A fair assessment and a reasoned one. Hope I’m proved wrong and it’s nothing but an option based on last season and one game. And the one game aspect probably isn’t fair but I didn’t exactly rate Mane when he played the first few games. So what do I know? 

[Dman]

I'd rather have Tella on the left and Amo-Ameyaw on the right.

i'm sticking Edozie in the squad player camp.. fairly average.