Edozie - "Squad Player" - Discuss (Split)

[egg]

56 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

So the issue wasn't with Edozie last year then, it was with the failure of our more experienced players to deliver. 

No. Edozie was crap last year. He was signed to deliver. He didn't. We could go around the houses all day mate, I'll still be of the opinion that he was shit last season. 

[Fabrice29]

1 minute ago, egg said:

No. Edozie was crap last year. He was signed to deliver. He didn't. We could go around the houses all day mate, I'll still be of the opinion that he was shit last season. 

He was signed to help the first team and be a long term signing. That’s literally what it was advertised as. He did okay and guess what, he’s still got a few years left in him.

[egg]

Just now, Fabrice29 said:

He was signed to help the first team and be a long term signing. That’s literally what it was advertised as. He did okay and guess what, he’s still got a few years left in him.

This is tedious. Any arguing that he genuinely helped the first team is talking nonsense. Sure, by a kid for the future, ease them in off the bench and in cip games, but this kid was plainly bought for the first team but wasn't up to it.

Don't tell me that you use the same argument for Bazunu. 

[Fabrice29]

1 minute ago, egg said:

This is tedious. Any arguing that he genuinely helped the first team is talking nonsense. Sure, by a kid for the future, ease them in off the bench and in cip games, but this kid was plainly bought for the first team but wasn't up to it.

Don't tell me that you use the same argument for Bazunu. 

I think Bazunu will improve if that’s what you’re asking? 

[egg]

4 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

I think Bazunu will improve if that’s what you’re asking? 

You know exactly what I was asking.

Like Edozie he wasn't good enough last season for our first team. How good either of them is irrelevant to how bad they were last season. You judge them on hope, I judge them on the reality of how they performed. Kids playing kids football can be viewed on hope, not young players signed for millions and playing for the first team. 

[hypochondriac]

28 minutes ago, egg said:

No. Edozie was crap last year. He was signed to deliver. He didn't. We could go around the houses all day mate, I'll still be of the opinion that he was shit last season. 

So if we'd done what we should have done and brought in some experience alongside Edozie whilst he learnt his craft last season, would you still be saying he was signed to deliver in his first season in the Premier league? His signing was not the problem, failing to sign others of a different profile so we're forced to be overly reliant on the young talent was the issue. 

[Fabrice29]

22 minutes ago, egg said:

You know exactly what I was asking.

Like Edozie he wasn't good enough last season for our first team. How good either of them is irrelevant to how bad they were last season. You judge them on hope, I judge them on the reality of how they performed. Kids playing kids football can be viewed on hope, not young players signed for millions and playing for the first team. 

‘Good enough last season for the first team’ has very much been watered down from ‘failure’ so you’re learning. It’s good to see your development. Imagine where you’ll be in a few years.

[Chez]

1 hour ago, egg said:

No. Edozie was crap last year. He was signed to deliver. He didn't. We could go around the houses all day mate, I'll still be of the opinion that he was shit last season. 

I agree with you that Edozie wasn't any cop, but he was a 19 year old £7m signing, so I don't agree he was expected to go straight into the first team and `deliver' huge things immediately. Your expectations as to his impact seem quite high. Perhaps higher than the management will have been?

[Chez]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

So if we'd done what we should have done and brought in some experience alongside Edozie whilst he learnt his craft last season, would you still be saying he was signed to deliver in his first season in the Premier league? His signing was not the problem, failing to sign others of a different profile so we're forced to be overly reliant on the young talent was the issue. 

Like Aribo?

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, Chez said:

Like Aribo?

Yeah he was shit. Failing to sign the right experienced players (or not signing any) was the issue. 

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

Yeah he was shit. Failing to sign the right experienced players (or not signing any) was the issue. 

Maybe we should have pooled the money on pointless signings and actually bought quality in the summer.

[Saint86]

18 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Yeah he was shit. Failing to sign the right experienced players (or not signing any) was the issue. 

Unless you're egg, in which case the u21 squad player is the failure 😂

[Turkish]

20 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Unless you're egg, in which case the u21 squad player is the failure 😂

he wasn't signed to be an U21 squad player. It really isn't that hard to understand.

[hypochondriac]

4 minutes ago, Turkish said:

he wasn't signed to be an U21 squad player. It really isn't that hard to understand.

What evidence do you have that he was being signed as a starter? At 7 million I would say he was very much a squad player, one that woukd show enough quality that we could flog him in a few years for a profit (something that could still happen) 

[pimpin4rizeal]

52 minutes ago, Chez said:

I agree with you that Edozie wasn't any cop, but he was a 19 year old £7m signing, so I don't agree he was expected to go straight into the first team and `deliver' huge things immediately. Your expectations as to his impact seem quite high. Perhaps higher than the management will have been?

I don’t think edozie was crap .. looks a good dribbler and  would have much preferred to give him game time then moi.. jones was the only one who seemed to play him a lot though and selles froze him out completely ..

personally I think he will be a big player for us this season 

[Turkish]

5 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

What evidence do you have that he was being signed as a starter? At 7 million I would say he was very much a squad player, one that woukd show enough quality that we could flog him in a few years for a profit (something that could still happen) 

Southampton sign City's Edozie - BBC Sport

Ralph Hasenhuttl said: "Samuel is another promising young player who brings good attacking qualities to us, and he is someone who fits very well with our philosophy.

"He is a quick player who has impressive technical ability, so he will be able to help our squad immediately, but we also see a lot of potential in him for the future"

Did he help our squad immediately? 

Edited 7 July, 2023 by Turkish

[egg]

1 hour ago, Chez said:

I agree with you that Edozie wasn't any cop, but he was a 19 year old £7m signing, so I don't agree he was expected to go straight into the first team and `deliver' huge things immediately. Your expectations as to his impact seem quite high. Perhaps higher than the management will have been?

So you're saying that the club signed a first team player, but without an expectation that he'd perform to the standard required of the first team in the PL. That's non sensical. The expectation was plainly that he'd produce, otherwise he wouldn't have been picked to play. 

[egg]

48 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Unless you're egg, in which case the u21 squad player is the failure 😂

He was signed to play in the team. He was picked to play. He didn't improve us so much so that we bought Orsic. The excuses being made for the kid are bewildering. 

[pimpin4rizeal]

10 minutes ago, egg said:

He was signed to play in the team. He was picked to play. He didn't improve us so much so that we bought Orsic. The excuses being made for the kid are bewildering. 

He was mainly coming off the bench under Ralph and selles froze him out..not sure why you’re expecting him to dominate matches as a sub? 

He’s a promising looking kid who didn’t feature that much because the managers prefer the proven shitness of elyounoussi . Says more about Ralph and selles then it does him 

Edited 7 July, 2023 by pimpin4rizeal

[hypochondriac]

40 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Southampton sign City's Edozie - BBC Sport

Ralph Hasenhuttl said: "Samuel is another promising young player who brings good attacking qualities to us, and he is someone who fits very well with our philosophy.

"He is a quick player who has impressive technical ability, so he will be able to help our squad immediately, but we also see a lot of potential in him for the future"

Did he help our squad immediately? 

Yes. Because he was a squad player. 

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

Southampton sign City's Edozie - BBC Sport

Ralph Hasenhuttl said: "Samuel is another promising young player who brings good attacking qualities to us, and he is someone who fits very well with our philosophy.

"He is a quick player who has impressive technical ability, so he will be able to help our squad immediately, but we also see a lot of potential in him for the future"

Did he help our squad immediately? 

Note he said squad not team. Squad.

[FarehamSaintJames]

He was brought in probably as a squad player, in the hope that he could probably make an impact from the bench.

To summarise, he didn’t.

Doesn’t mean he’s a crap player, but he was brought in to the league way too early.

[S-Clarke]

Just now, FarehamSaintJames said:

He was brought in probably as a squad player, in the hope that he could probably make an impact from the bench.

To summarise, he didn’t.

Doesn’t mean he’s a crap player, but he was brought in to the league way too early.

I personally thought he looked quite threatening at the start of the season, but his appearances became sporadic, we started to struggle and he never gained any real consistency. The miss against Lincoln in the Cup set him way back confidence wise I felt, he went well into his shell after that.

I'd hope to see a lot more from him in a winning side who play on the front foot, and aren't so worried about what happens off the ball.

[Osvaldorama]

1 hour ago, egg said:

He was signed to play in the team. He was picked to play. He didn't improve us so much so that we bought Orsic. The excuses being made for the kid are bewildering. 

You summed it up in your own post. 
 

“Kid”.  Stop being so harsh on the lad

Edited 7 July, 2023 by Osvaldorama

[Turkish]

24 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Note he said squad not team. Squad.

Did he help the squad immediately? Yes or no will do

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Yes. Because he was a squad player. 

Did he help the squad immediately? What did he do last season that helped the squad?

[Turkish]

8 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

You summed it up in your own post. 
 

“Kid”.  Stop being so harsh on the lad

The criticism at least from me anyway is not aimed at the player but the people that expected a 19 year old kid who I think had barely played a first team game to come in and be a first team player immediately. 

[hypochondriac]

29 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Did he help the squad immediately? What did he do last season that helped the squad?

He showed he had a bit about him in early games. He was then dropped entirely in place of solid and shot players through no fualt of his own. He had very little impact in truth. He was a young squad player brought in to gain a season of experience, hopefully improve over time and then be sold on for a profit. 

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

He showed he had a bit about him in early games. He was then dropped entirely in place of solid and shot players through no fualt of his own. He had very little impact in truth. He was a young squad player brought in to gain a season of experience, hopefully improve over time and then be sold on for a profit. 

So there’s your answer then “very little impact” cheers 

[hypochondriac]

8 minutes ago, Turkish said:

So there’s your answer then “very little impact” cheers 

Over the entirety of the season yes because he didn't play but he had a positive impact at the start of the season when he was in the team. It's hardly his fault if the managerial geniuses that are Selles and Jones prefer to play Elyounoussi. 

[Chez]

2 hours ago, egg said:

So you're saying that the club signed a first team player, but without an expectation that he'd perform to the standard required of the first team in the PL. That's non sensical. The expectation was plainly that he'd produce, otherwise he wouldn't have been picked to play. 

I'm saying they signed a 19 year old talent that they hope will be a great investment. That doesn't mean the management expected him to excel in the Prem league immediately. He was on the bench until December. I think that shows exactly what the management thought of him: a young player that would be brought on gradually. In thw end, he performed pretty much at the same standard as the rest of the first team. Not great. 

 

 

[Turkish]

17 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Over the entirety of the season yes because he didn't play but he had a positive impact at the start of the season when he was in the team. It's hardly his fault if the managerial geniuses that are Selles and Jones prefer to play Elyounoussi. 

Did he? I remember him running around a lot but don’t remember him contributing anything of note. By our managers own statement he was expected to help the first team squad immediately, I’ve yet to see anyone state how he did. He might become a great player but last year he didn’t do what was expected 

Edited 7 July, 2023 by Turkish

[egg]

21 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Over the entirety of the season yes because he didn't play but he had a positive impact at the start of the season when he was in the team. It's hardly his fault if the managerial geniuses that are Selles and Jones prefer to play Elyounoussi. 

What impact? He never got his head up so missed other players runs, didn't assist, didn't score, was lightweight. How exactly did he assist? Dropping him was one of the few things Selles got right. 

[Wade Garrett]

3 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Yes. Because he was a squad player. 

Stop signing fucking squad players then!  Buy starters.

[Bad Wolf]

58 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Stop signing fucking squad players then!  Buy starters.

You suggest that a football club should operate with 11 players and no more?

[Wade Garrett]

6 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

You suggest that a football club should operate with 11 players and no more?

Not biting on that one 😂

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, Wade Garrett said:

Stop signing fucking squad players then!  Buy starters.

Why are you replying to me like I'm endorsing us buying squad players and no one else? I don't agree with the philosophy and the club have said it was a mistake. 

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

Did he? I remember him running around a lot but don’t remember him contributing anything of note. By our managers own statement he was expected to help the first team squad immediately, I’ve yet to see anyone state how he did. He might become a great player but last year he didn’t do what was expected 

I think that the alternative to him in the squad at the time would have done worse than he did with the little opportunity he had therefore he improved the squad 

[Saint86]

5 hours ago, Turkish said:

Southampton sign City's Edozie - BBC Sport

Ralph Hasenhuttl said: "Samuel is another promising young player who brings good attacking qualities to us, and he is someone who fits very well with our philosophy.

"He is a quick player who has impressive technical ability, so he will be able to help our squad immediately, but we also see a lot of potential in him for the future"

4 hours ago, egg said:

He was signed to play in the team. He was picked to play. He didn't improve us so much so that we bought Orsic. The excuses being made for the kid are bewildering. 

Pretty much have it there clear as day - he was a £7M signing to improve the squad (which he did), and to have potential for the future (which he does)…  I do not know why you've decided to stand on the particular hill of "Edozie is a failure" 🤷‍♂️ - its not like we're short of bad signings last year!

[Turkish]

11 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I think that the alternative to him in the squad at the time would have done worse than he did with the little opportunity he had therefore he improved the squad 

Edozie came in as a replacement for Redmond. Are you seriously saying with 17 appearances no goals or assists he was more affective than redmond and improved the squad? 

[egg]

33 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Pretty much have it there clear as day - he was a £7M signing to improve the squad (which he did), and to have potential for the future (which he does)…  I do not know why you've decided to stand on the particular hill of "Edozie is a failure" 🤷‍♂️ - its not like we're short of bad signings last year!

I don't care what potential you think he has. If a player played last season, he had to be good enough to produce last season. That he might come good in 2025 ain't a lot of use is it. 

Edozie wasn't the discussion initially. It was about the policy of signing kids from city for millions who aren't ready for the first team. I still think that was a mental strategy, and that players like Edozie, Bazunu and Larios were a mile away from ready. The money spent could and should have been put to better use imo. 

Then it somehow became Edozie dominated. Seemingly a lot of people are impressed by a kid running around a lot but doing fuck all of actual use. Then saying it doesn't matter that he did shit, cos he might be good one day.

[Dusic]

Edozie, like Larios, was clearly not signed to go straight into our starting XI and make an immediate impact. 

Anyone who thinks otherwise either hugely misinterpreted that or is pretending otherwise to fit whatever point they are making.

I don't think he was in the squad to start with and then took a while to even come off the bench.

When he did it was imediately clear that he is a very talented dribbler with tight control, a good first touch and an ability to beat players 1 vs 1.

Pretty much all his apps, in a poor team lacking attacking cohesion showed these attributes.

IMO he could be very good next season if he can add end product in the way that Tella, who had lookwd woefully short of that in the PL, managed to do at Burnley.

I think being in a team that has more of the ball will suit him and I am still glad we signed him as there is clearly big talent there. Learning on the job in a poor PL team is a tough gig and anyone who has already written him off as a failure is being pretty short sighted.

If you think every signing is brought in to make an immediate impact then you must have totally missed our operating model for a number of years.

Edited 7 July, 2023 by Dusic

[SambaMaverick]

33 minutes ago, Dusic said:

Edozie, like Larios, was clearly not signed to go straight into our starting XI and make an immediate impact. 

Anyone who thinks otherwise either hugely misinterpreted that or is pretending otherwise to fit whatever point they are making.

I don't think he was in the squad to start with and then took a while to even come off the bench.

When he did it was imediately clear that he is a very talented dribbler with tight control, a good first touch and an ability to beat players 1 vs 1.

Pretty much all his apps, in a poor team lacking attacking cohesion showed these attributes.

IMO he could be very good next season if he can add end product in the way that Tella, who had lookwd woefully short of that in the PL, managed to do at Burnley.

I think being in a team that has more of the ball will suit him and I am still glad we signed him as there is clearly big talent there. Learning on the job in a poor PL team is a tough gig and anyone who has already written him off as a failure is being pretty short sighted.

If you think every signing is brought in to make an immediate impact then you must have totally missed our operating model for a number of years.

He appeared in 15 of the first 17 Premier League matches after signing - but close one!

[kevdoh]

1 hour ago, SambaMaverick said:

He appeared in 15 of the first 17 Premier League matches after signing - but close one!

I maybe wrong but the first time I remember seeing him play for first team was wolves away as a sub which was the 6th game. Like I say my memory may have failed me but I remember him coming off bench and looking lively

[SambaMaverick]

5 hours ago, kevdoh said:

I maybe wrong but the first time I remember seeing him play for first team was wolves away as a sub which was the 6th game. Like I say my memory may have failed me but I remember him coming off bench and looking lively

Yeah he signed on deadline day, Wolves away was the first match after that.

[Sarisbury Saint]

10 hours ago, Turkish said:

Did he? I remember him running around a lot but don’t remember him contributing anything of note. By our managers own statement he was expected to help the first team squad immediately, I’ve yet to see anyone state how he did. He might become a great player but last year he didn’t do what was expected 

You’re quoting a manager that spoke a load of bollocks and played a load of bollocks.  
I certainly hoped he would be better than he was, but expecting a raw teenager to make in impact with a team playing so poorly that was low on confidence and on a horrendous run is ridiculous.

 

[Turkish]

18 minutes ago, Sarisbury Saint said:

You’re quoting a manager that spoke a load of bollocks and played a load of bollocks.  
I certainly hoped he would be better than he was, but expecting a raw teenager to make in impact with a team playing so poorly that was low on confidence and on a horrendous run is ridiculous.

 

I was asked for evidence Edozie was going to be part of the first team, if a direct quote from that teams manager on the day he signed isn’t enough then what do you expect? 
 

and I completely agree with your second point and made myself earlier on the thread but that doesn’t change the fact he and few others didn’t do what was expected of them whether we agree with those expectations or not.

[Dusic]

7 hours ago, SambaMaverick said:

He appeared in 15 of the first 17 Premier League matches after signing - but close one!

Yeah, cameos of the bench starting his first PL game on Boxing Day.

Like I said, I don't think anyone expected him to come in and be a regular starter.

Lets hope he has a good season, I expect him to and anyone who has already written him off is taking a risk because he is obviously talented and still so young! 

Not much more to say on it than that really.

[Convict Colony]

Not read this thread but Edozie in some games was one of of our better players and in others the among the worst - but he was 19yrs old playing in his first senior football and cost feck all so i dunno what people expect.

I expect him to look more polished v championship defenders after a season of going against the best and we start see more end product.

[egg]

6 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

Not read this thread but Edozie in some games was one of of our better players and in others the among the worst - but he was 19yrs old playing in his first senior football and cost feck all so i dunno what people expect.

I expect him to look more polished v championship defenders after a season of going against the best and we start see more end product.

I get that, but the split thread and responses has missed the point of the initial discussion...was a transfer policy of signing Man City kids (rather than players ready to hit the ground running) a wise one? My point on Edozie, simply, is that he was signed for and used by the first team last season, but wasn't at the required standard last season.