Gavin Bazunu

[Ex Lion Tamer]

On 30/07/2023 at 19:36, St. Ciervo said:

Comparing Baz to McC is literally my only direct option unfortunately. However, I am with you on signing a new goalie to push Baz. McC's two left feet make him a liability in this system. 

Are there keepers out there we could sign at Championship level who are good with their feet and also consistently good shot stoppers? 

[Convict Colony]

Unorthodox techniques, but bravery cannot be questioned.

[Galway saint]

It seems inevitable we will need to replace bazanu, as he’s not a top level keeper. Just a question of when not if.. Hopefully the owners will do it sooner rather than later but they don’t appear to have grasped the point

[hypochondriac]

22 minutes ago, Galway saint said:

It seems inevitable we will need to replace bazanu, as he’s not a top level keeper. Just a question of when not if.. Hopefully the owners will do it sooner rather than later but they don’t appear to have grasped the point

I'm not sure it's fair to say that. He could be a top keeper in the future, he just isn't now. 

[skintsaint]

1 hour ago, Galway saint said:

It seems inevitable we will need to replace bazanu, as he’s not a top level keeper. Just a question of when not if.. Hopefully the owners will do it sooner rather than later but they don’t appear to have grasped the point

Best thing we can hope for is we storm the league and he has a great season, therefore making a top 10 club make a silly offer for him. 

[Whitey Grandad]

40 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

Best thing we can hope for is we storm the league and he has a great season, therefore making a top 10 club make a silly offer for him. 

But if (!) he has a great season why would you want to sell him?

[skintsaint]

2 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

But if (!) he has a great season why would you want to sell him?

Its the club model - buy young and cheap and sell for lots more. Where you been?

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, skintsaint said:

Its the club model - buy young and cheap and sell for lots more. Where you been?

That hasn’t worked very well lately.

[skintsaint]

5 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

That hasn’t worked very well lately.

But it would have done in this scenario you questioned.

[Whitey Grandad]

27 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

But it would have done in this scenario you questioned.

We’d only be getting back somewhere near where we started.

Who was the last youngster that we made a suitable profit on? And more importantly, how much have we spunked away on the ones that didn’t make it “

[hypochondriac]

40 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

We’d only be getting back somewhere near where we started.

Who was the last youngster that we made a suitable profit on? And more importantly, how much have we spunked away on the ones that didn’t make it “

When we sell Lavia and Livramento it will be them. 

[notnowcato]

9 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

We’d only be getting back somewhere near where we started.

Who was the last youngster that we made a suitable profit on? And more importantly, how much have we spunked away on the ones that didn’t make it “

Arguably, we've spunked more on "proven" talent in recent years.

[Lord Duckhunter]

12 hours ago, skintsaint said:

 he has a great season,

Be realistic FFS. 

[Galway saint]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Be realistic FFS. 

He’s unlikely to have a great season

he's already made two gaffs in preseason 

[notnowcato]

I hope he has a good enough season.  A bit of confidence from some clean sheets will do Gavin the world of good.

And he's clearly ruined Galway Saint's missus / mister, the love from the west of Ireland is palpable. 

[manji]

26 minutes ago, Galway saint said:

He’s unlikely to have a great season

he's already made two gaffs in preseason 

I think Baz will be fine with a relatively settled defence in front of him.

[Whitey Grandad]

5 hours ago, Galway saint said:

He’s unlikely to have a great season

he's already made two gaffs in preseason 

Two?

I only saw The near post one.

[Galway saint]

6 hours ago, manji said:

The second against reading. His positioning for the first was also suspect ( he often ends up losing his bearings)  but I accept you’d expect the striker to score from there but he made it easier 

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Two?

I only saw The near post one.

 

[Whitey Grandad]

28 minutes ago, Galway saint said:

 

Not really a gaff though, is it?

[Galway saint]

5 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Not really a gaff though, is it?

What is it then ? 
he should have saved it.

 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, Galway saint said:

What is it then ? 
he should have saved it.

 

Not a chance. 
 

Once an attacker gets within a few feet of a goalkeeper he is most probably going to score. You have a very unrealistic of what a goalkeeper can do. If you expect a save in such situations you’re going to be disappointed most of the time.

[Galway saint]

We obviously have different views of what a decent keeper should be capable of and a decent keeper saves that shot. He concedes far too many goals of that ilk

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

6 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Not a chance. 
 

Once an attacker gets within a few feet of a goalkeeper he is most probably going to score. You have a very unrealistic of what a goalkeeper can do. If you expect a save in such situations you’re going to be disappointed most of the time.

Unless that attacker is che Adams of course

[Galway saint]

9 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Not a chance. 
 

Once an attacker gets within a few feet of a goalkeeper he is most probably going to score. You have a very unrealistic of what a goalkeeper can do. If you expect a save in such situations you’re going to be disappointed most of the time.

Just watched it again and I quote,‘Hugely disappointing from his perspective’ said Adam Blackmore on commentary when talking about bazanu’s effort. He also said he let it go under his arm. How on earth you can say that was not a mistake is beyond me 

 

[Whitey Grandad]

6 minutes ago, Galway saint said:

Just watched it again and I quote,‘Hugely disappointing from his perspective’ said Adam Blackmore on commentary when talking about bazanu’s effort. He also said he let it go under his arm. How on earth you can say that was not a mistake is beyond me 

 

Or…

He did very well to even get a hand on it.

[Miltonaggro]

40 minutes ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

Unless that attacker is che Adams of course

Yep, it’s a fucker to have both in the first team! 

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

Hence we were relegated last season!

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

You can't play 'possession ball' and have McCarthy in goal. He struggles to pass to his man five feet away. That leaves Baz. I genuinely think his distribution is very very good and his control of the ball is solid. If someone can train him to stop shots (is this intuitive or can it be trained?), we'd have a top goalie. Until that time, we need someone else.

[manji]

4 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Two?

I only saw The near post one.

Not to mention the world class save against Benfica.

Edited 3 August, 2023 by manji

[Dman]

12 hours ago, manji said:

Not to mention the world class save against Benfica.

That save was luck more than anything else. He done well to get across, but when you're throwing your body at the ball, you're getting lucky if it hits you. You might get 1 or 2 of those a season.

I personally judge a keeper on the ones they should be saving, not the 'world class' ones they shouldn't. Baz doesn't save the simple one (to be honest, he hardly saves anything), which makes him a very, very poor keeper. 

[Whitey Grandad]

4 hours ago, saintant said:

Either you can save shots or you can't. Which division you're in is not so important.

This may come as a surprise but…

…not all shots are the same.

[Galway saint]

43 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

This may come as a surprise but…

…not all shots are the same.

What does that even mean ? 
Are you saying shots are harder to save in the premier league than the championship ?  You get good shots and bad shots whatever the division. The point is he’s shown himself poor at saving shots and had poor positional sense and a lack of physicality. The only redeeming feature at present is apparently good distribution but in that case let’s stick Stephen’s in goal

[BARCELONASAINT]

5 hours ago, saintant said:

Either you can save shots or you can't. Which division you're in is not so important.

I don't think you will ever get all Saints fans agreeing on Bazuna.

Personally i think he is a very intelligent young goalkeeper who was thrown into the Lions den last season with a woeful backline in front of him. Yes he made mistakes but he also made some incredible saves. Some fans are all too quick to only remember the mistakes because the mistakes led to a goal and points lost. A goalkeeper probably has  the hardest position on the pitch because the outfield players can often cock up several times a game and it not necessarily lead to a goal. A goalkeeper fucks up and it's a goal. I'm confident he will go on to be a top keeper.

[Saint86]

6 minutes ago, Galway saint said:

What does that even mean ? 
Are you saying shots are harder to save in the premier league than the championship ?  You get good shots and bad shots whatever the division. The point is he’s shown himself poor at saving shots and had poor positional sense and a lack of physicality. The only redeeming feature at present is apparently good distribution but in that case let’s stick Stephen’s in goal

I believe he's referring to post shot expected goals. I.e. a statistical breakdown of how likely a keeper is to save a shot after its been hit - i.e. for given placements, powers, ranges etc. statistically how many are saved.

Edited 4 August, 2023 by Saint86

[Holmes_and_Watson]

4 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

I believe he's referring to post shot expected goals. I.e. a statistical breakdown of how likely a keeper is to save a shot after its been hit - i.e. for given placements, powers, ranges etc. statistically how many are saved.

I was going for...

 

But yeah, your reply with its analysis angle works too. 🙂

[Whitey Grandad]

19 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

I believe he's referring to post shot expected goals. I.e. a statistical breakdown of how likely a keeper is to save a shot after its been hit - i.e. for given placements, powers, ranges etc. statistically how many are saved.

I never go anywhere near such sorts of statistics but yes, a well-placed  shot placed into the corner is different from a gentle back pass. In the top levels of football you tend to find that forwards will try to place their shots somewhere that the goalkeeper is not going to save them. That’s why they’re playing at a higher level.

Distance from goal is also an important factor. Not many defenders allow the opposition to waltz into their penalty areas before having a pop at goal.

Having Bednarek standing on your toes doesn’t help either.

In short, our defence was porous and ineffective no matter who was playing in goal.

[Whitey Grandad]

33 minutes ago, Galway saint said:

What does that even mean ? 
Are you saying shots are harder to save in the premier league than the championship ?  You get good shots and bad shots whatever the division. The point is he’s shown himself poor at saving shots and had poor positional sense and a lack of physicality. The only redeeming feature at present is apparently good distribution but in that case let’s stick Stephen’s in goal

Shots in the Premier League are not the same as shots in the Championship.

In short, they’re in a different league.

It’s one of the reasons that players like Che Adams and Adam Armstrong can do so well at one level yet struggle at another.

Edited 4 August, 2023 by Whitey Grandad

[The Curse of St Mary's]

6 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Shots in the Premier League are not the same as shots in the Championship.

In short, they’re in a different league.

It’s one of the reasons that players like Che Adams and Adam Armstrong can do so well at one level yet struggle at another.

No, they get more time and are up against defenders who won't be as good in the championship. A shot in the top corner in the championship is the same as shot hit into the top corner in the PL 😉

[hypochondriac]

22 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I never go anywhere near such sorts of statistics but yes, a well-placed  shot placed into the corner is different from a gentle back pass. In the top levels of football you tend to find that forwards will try to place their shots somewhere that the goalkeeper is not going to save them. That’s why they’re playing at a higher level.

Distance from goal is also an important factor. Not many defenders allow the opposition to waltz into their penalty areas before having a pop at goal.

Having Bednarek standing on your toes doesn’t help either.

In short, our defence was porous and ineffective no matter who was playing in goal.

So your contention is that we woukd have conceded roughly the same amount whoever was in goal and that the quality of goalkeeper makes no difference? 

[Galway saint]

19 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Shots in the Premier League are not the same as shots in the Championship.

In short, they’re in a different league.

It’s one of the reasons that players like Che Adams and Adam Armstrong can do so well at one level yet struggle at another.

Yes they are - a shot is a shot regardless of the division. It’s just that the keepers who keep our more shots typically play in a higher division.

 

 

[Whitey Grandad]

3 minutes ago, Galway saint said:

Yes they are - a shot is a shot regardless of the division. It’s just that the keepers who keep our more shots typically play in a higher division.

 

 

Every shot is different.

[Whitey Grandad]

6 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

So your contention is that we woukd have conceded roughly the same amount whoever was in goal and that the quality of goalkeeper makes no difference? 

To a large extent, yes. 

[Lighthouse]

3 minutes ago, Galway saint said:

Yes they are - a shot is a shot regardless of the division. It’s just that the keepers who keep our more shots typically play in a higher division.

This argument just doesn’t make any sense. If it were true, Plymouth’s Michael Cooper could replace De Gea at United. Strikers are quite obviously worse in this league and so are their shots.

[Whitey Grandad]

18 minutes ago, The Curse of St Mary's said:

No, they get more time and are up against defenders who won't be as good in the championship. A shot in the top corner in the championship is the same as shot hit into the top corner in the PL 😉

There are a lot more variables than just the placement. This is the problem with simplistic analysis. It is too simple.

[Galway saint]

Just now, Whitey Grandad said:

There are a lot more variables than just the placement. This is the problem with simplistic analysis. It is too simple.

Simplistic analysis will inevitably be simple.

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

To a large extent, yes. 

So is that the same the other way round too? Could someone rubbish replace Ederson and have conceded a similar amount? 

[Whitey Grandad]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

So is that the same the other way round too? Could someone rubbish replace Ederson and have conceded a similar amount? 

Yep. As far as stoppage ball going into the net is concerned. But there is a lot more to a good defence than having a goalkeeper for that rare occasion when the opposition get a chance to shoot at goal. Distribution, organising the defence, controlling the tempo of the game.

[Whitey Grandad]

26 minutes ago, The Curse of St Mary's said:

No, they get more time and are up against defenders who won't be as good in the championship. A shot in the top corner in the championship is the same as shot hit into the top corner in the PL 😉

Going back to this, shots can come from all sorts of angles and distances and speeds. Other relevant factors are the time taken to line up the shot, whether it’s a snapshot or something more considered, whether there is a defender close to the attacker blocking the view of him, whether there are defenders standing back in front of the goalkeeper blocking his view, whether the shot comes at the end of a run or is from a ball cut back from the goal line, whether the pass to the shooter comes through a crowd of players from a few yards or from a long distance…

There are so many factors that trying to make a spreadsheet analysis is idiotic. That is the beauty of football.

[hypochondriac]

6 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Yep. As far as stoppage ball going into the net is concerned. But there is a lot more to a good defence than having a goalkeeper for that rare occasion when the opposition get a chance to shoot at goal. Distribution, organising the defence, controlling the tempo of the game.

Hold on could you expand on what you're saying here? Are you saying that a goalkeeper who is equally adept at other skills such as distribution, organising defence etc but worse at shot stopping will concede the same amount as another keeper who is better at it? 

[egg]

37 minutes ago, The Curse of St Mary's said:

No, they get more time and are up against defenders who won't be as good in the championship. A shot in the top corner in the championship is the same as shot hit into the top corner in the PL 😉

Yep. And with Baz the big issue is positioning...a keeper will concede more goals on any league if he starts in the wrong place.