Gavin Bazunu

[Lord Duckhunter]

18 hours ago, saintquin said:

 

A striker more likely to score than a center half!

Not if it’s Che Adams 

[Saint_clark]

4 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Have you made that up?

No, that's literally how the XG stats are calculated. It's how likely a chance is to be scored based on similar chances being scored or not in the past and the only way to work that out is using AI as it would be impossible for a human to sit down and look at that amount of data in such a short time frame. 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

No, that's literally how the XG stats are calculated. It's how likely a chance is to be scored based on similar chances being scored or not in the past and the only way to work that out is using AI as it would be impossible for a human to sit down and look at that amount of data in such a short time frame. 

AI is not very intelligent.

xG never gets anywhere near actual Goals which proves that it is a useless indicator and can be safely ignored.

[a1ex2001]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

AI is not very intelligent.

xG never gets anywhere near actual Goals which proves that it is a useless indicator and can be safely ignored.

Now that’s just silly and failing to understand the statistics.  If they were totally useless then the professionals in the game wouldn’t use them and the outcome of them wouldn’t so closely align with the good players and the not so good.  Baz is a half decent goal keeper but as the stats confirm he isn’t in the top drawer which I think even the most casual observer would agree with.

[Saint_clark]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

AI is not very intelligent.

xG never gets anywhere near actual Goals which proves that it is a useless indicator and can be safely ignored.

Nonsense. 

No point trying to explain it to you, you dismiss it out of hand probably because you refuse to put in the necessary effort to understand it. New fangled technology. 

 

All I'll say is if you look back through results on flashscores, for every team that scored over their X.G there's a team that scored under it. 

[Roo1976]

9 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Nonsense. 

No point trying to explain it to you, you dismiss it out of hand probably because you refuse to put in the necessary effort to understand it. New fangled technology. 

 

All I'll say is if you look back through results on flashscores, for every team that scored over their X.G there's a team that scored under it. 

so did the ball go in or not............................lol

[Whitey Grandad]

9 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Nonsense. 

No point trying to explain it to you, you dismiss it out of hand probably because you refuse to put in the necessary effort to understand it. New fangled technology. 

 

All I'll say is if you look back through results on flashscores, for every team that scored over their X.G there's a team that scored under it. 

That’s exactly my point.

I have spent my professional life using technology and I have a good understanding of statistics and stochastics. These methods are the sort of stuff that gamblers use to try to justify whether to bet on red or black.

[Whitey Grandad]

9 hours ago, a1ex2001 said:

Now that’s just silly and failing to understand the statistics.  If they were totally useless then the professionals in the game wouldn’t use them and the outcome of them wouldn’t so closely align with the good players and the not so good.  Baz is a half decent goal keeper but as the stats confirm he isn’t in the top drawer which I think even the most casual observer would agree with.

No and yes.

And like you say, even the casual observer can see the difference between the good and not so good player. We don’t need any stats to know that Baz is not top drawer.

[hypochondriac]

45 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

No and yes.

And like you say, even the casual observer can see the difference between the good and not so good player. We don’t need any stats to know that Baz is not top drawer.

You don't need the stats but they are a useful tool for adding weight to what you see with your eyes. 

[The Kraken]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

You don't need the stats but they are a useful tool for adding weight to what you see with your eyes. 

Or if you haven’t seen the game(s) at all.

There are many things to criticise xG for and how accurate it could ever be. However the statement “xG never gets anywhere near actual Goals which proves that it is a useless indicator and can be safely ignored.” just demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of what it actually tries to do.

Edited 14 March, 2024 by The Kraken

[John B]

2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

No and yes.

And like you say, even the casual observer can see the difference between the good and not so good player. We don’t need any stats to know that Baz is not top drawer.

But what is top draw 

 

Both him and Kelleher of Liverpool play for Ireland and since 2021 Baz has played twice as many times than Kelleher

 

 

[Osvaldorama]

It’s boring to talk about now really.
 

He’s nowhere near good enough at the goalkeepers main job - preventing goals. 
 

But for whatever reason the club want to back him, even at the club’s expense. So all we can do is pretend he is good enough and hope he develops 

[coalman]

On 12/03/2024 at 20:20, Saint_clark said:

Most likely, yes. 

All these stats are worked out using crazy AI algorithms using hundreds of thousands of data points from decades of football games. 

That's not how xG is calculated. It's a human subjective measure of the quality of opportunity which differs between every stats outlet based upon the people calculating it and likely to be inconsistent over time. AI has nothing to do with it.

Also, there's no such thing as a "crazy AI algorithm". AI is a set of methods for training a model towards a desirable set of outputs from a (hopefully) useful data set. You can get a crazy model but a model is not an algorithm.

At its best case, xG is a potentially interesting measure subject to a high degree of human interpretation. As a signal for any kind of AI model it's little better than noise.

[Lymington Saint]

Baz is 22 and still learning his trade. He was thrown in the deep end last season when he should have been out on loan. This season has been better, but still some weaknesses. Be interesting to see where he is in 2 or 3 years time. My view is that he wont be a top 6 prem keeper but decent. I think that some of the criticisms on this thread are a bit harsh.

[Lord Duckhunter]

3 hours ago, John B said:

 

 

Both him and Kelleher of Liverpool play for Ireland and since 2021 Baz has played twice as many times than Kelleher

 

 

May explain this.

The FAI announced on 22 November 2023 that Kenny's contract would not be renewed. Kenny recorded only six wins in 29 competitive matches during his tenure.

#bazball 

Edited 14 March, 2024 by Lord Duckhunter

[Chez]

3 hours ago, John B said:

But what is top draw?

Not sure. But I don't think you put your clothes in it.

[Wade Garrett]

The guy has a suspect technique and is a poor shot stopper.

That’s got nothing to do with experience either.

[Saint_clark]

8 hours ago, coalman said:

That's not how xG is calculated. It's a human subjective measure of the quality of opportunity which differs between every stats outlet based upon the people calculating it and likely to be inconsistent over time. AI has nothing to do with it.

Also, there's no such thing as a "crazy AI algorithm". AI is a set of methods for training a model towards a desirable set of outputs from a (hopefully) useful data set. You can get a crazy model but a model is not an algorithm.

At its best case, xG is a potentially interesting measure subject to a high degree of human interpretation. As a signal for any kind of AI model it's little better than noise.

Algorithm Vs model is just arguing semantics, we both mean exactly the same thing. 

And AI is absolutely used to work out XG. No human interpretation at all, it's simple maths. 

Striker receives a ball on the penalty spot, takes a touch and shoots right footed with no defenders between him and the goal. How many times has that sort of chance been created, how many times has it been scored, how many times has it been missed, computer uses all the information from the past to work out the likelihood that it would be scored and that gives the XG value, regardless of whether it is actually scored or not. 

Someone COULD sit down and work out the XG for themselves, but at the volume it's happening across so many leagues and it being so readily available as the game progresses it requires a much faster processing speed than the human brain can manage. 

[John B]

9 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

May explain this.

The FAI announced on 22 November 2023 that Kenny's contract would not be renewed. Kenny recorded only six wins in 29 competitive matches during his tenure.

#bazball 

Seems a strange response to me with a Republic of Ireland squadlike this it is hardly surprising they do not win many matches

Goalkeepers: Bazunu (Southampton), Kelleher (Liverpool), Travers (Bournemouth)

Defenders: Coleman (Everton), Doherty (Wolverhampton Wanderers), Collins (Brentford), Omobamidele (Nottingham Forest), O'Shea (Burnley), Scales (Celtic), O'Brien (Lyon), Brady (Preston), Ebosele (Udinese).

Midfielders: Cullen (Burnley), Knight (Bristol City), Smallbone (Southampton), McGrath (Aberdeen), O'Dowda (Cardiff City), Sykes (Bristol City), Azaz (Middlesbrough), Johnston (West Bromwich Albion).

Forwards: Ferguson (Brighton), Idah (Celtic, on loan from Norwich), Obafemi (Millwall, on loan from Burnley), Szmodics (Blackburn), Ogbene (Luton Town), Parrott (Excelsior, on loan from Tottenham).

[Holmes_and_Watson]

A squad with Baz and Smallbone! I appreciate they don't get as much time with the players, but the foundation of International MartinBall is right there. 🙂

[Lord Duckhunter]

14 hours ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

 

A squad with Baz and Smallbone!

 

Fuck me

Kenny is  a fucking miracle worker winning 6 games. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

50 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Fuck me

Kenny is  a fucking miracle worker winning 6 games. 

Oh, my God! They sacked Kenny!", "You bastards!

[SaintsBarry74]

Change nothing else but the GK last season and I guarantee you we don't get relegated. xG of -15,7 with the 2nd worse keeper having "only" half of that ffs.

Change nothing else but the GK this season and I guarantee you we'd be trailing Leicester on the table right now.

We clearly have no problem scoring goals, our major issue is letting in goals we shouldn't be letting in.

[Saint Billy]

Does XG take into account a shit defence in front of the goalkeeper?

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Saint Billy said:

Does XG take into account a shit defence in front of the goalkeeper?

well, yes

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, SaintsBarry74 said:

Change nothing else but the GK last season and I guarantee you we don't get relegated. xG of -15,7 with the 2nd worse keeper having "only" half of that ffs.

Change nothing else but the GK this season and I guarantee you we'd be trailing Leicester on the table right now.

We clearly have no problem scoring goals, our major issue is letting in goals we shouldn't be letting in.

And I guarantee you it would not have made any difference.

[Osvaldorama]

9 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

And I guarantee you it would not have made any difference.

Why even have a keeper then? If they make no difference and you choose to ignore stats. May as well just blindly trust him. 
 

I know… why don’t we stick a cone in goal with a photo of bazunu’s face? After all, changing the keeper makes no difference.
 

You’d still be here defending him anyway as he’s clearly your grandson 
 

 

[Lighthouse]

A keeper as good as Pickford may have kept us up last season, as he did for Everton, but we’re talking about a a very good keeper and a very big maybe. You’re basically talking about one very good player bailing out a lot of crap ones, we’d still have had an awful team with two terrible managers.

This season Baz has been very good and there’s no other realistic Championship option we’d be doing better with. He has strengths and weaknesses, just like anyone else, but overall performs well at this level. For some reason people talk as if he’s making howlers every couple of games and never makes a decent save. 

[Whitey Grandad]

20 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Why even have a keeper then? If they make no difference and you choose to ignore stats. May as well just blindly trust him. 
 

I know… why don’t we stick a cone in goal with a photo of bazunu’s face? After all, changing the keeper makes no difference.
 

You’d still be here defending him anyway as he’s clearly your grandson 
 

 

Reductio ad absurdum.

Don’t be so ridiculous. We finished 11 points, effectively 12, from safety.

I ignore the so-called stats because they are an irrelevant nonsense.

And what makes you think I am defending him? 

[Galway saint]

2 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

A keeper as good as Pickford may have kept us up last season, as he did for Everton, but we’re talking about a a very good keeper and a very big maybe. You’re basically talking about one very good player bailing out a lot of crap ones, we’d still have had an awful team with two terrible managers.

This season Baz has been very good and there’s no other realistic Championship option we’d be doing better with. He has strengths and weaknesses, just like anyone else, but overall performs well at this level. For some reason people talk as if he’s making howlers every couple of games and never makes a decent save. 

I just can’t see he’s been ‘very good’. His distribution is decent but as a goalkeeper he remains very ordinary. I’d say he’s league one or two level.

All that’s changed from last season is that we are now a big fish in a small pond and therefore he is less exposed. 

He’s still got the same problems, shot stopping down to his left, poor positioning and the fact he just doesn’t make enough saves. 

 

 

[The Kraken]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I ignore the so-called stats because they are an irrelevant nonsense.

You also don’t understand them, to be fair, which is also a consideration.

[Osvaldorama]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Reductio ad absurdum.

Don’t be so ridiculous. We finished 11 points, effectively 12, from safety.

I ignore the so-called stats because they are an irrelevant nonsense.

And what makes you think I am defending him? 

Nope, just extending your own logic to show you the absurdity of your posts. 
 

Of course goalkeepers make a huge difference to a team. Of course stats are useful. You can’t just bury your head in the sand and ignore things because you don’t like the results.
 

Bazunu is lucky we got relegated as he doesn’t look quite so out of his depth. But he is still making us worse and his inexperience has cost us points this season - points we wouldn’t have lost if we had a proper keeper. Maybe in a couple of seasons he will be ready to be a top half championship keeper.
 

I only hope he remembers how the club stuck by him if he does develop into the player the club thinks he could be. 

[losgigantes]

I have seen a lot of goalkeepers live in the Championship this season who are on par or better than Bazunu. They are of a high standard and playing, sometimes, behind worse defences.

Bazunu will be lucky to keep his place above Kelleher, in the Ireland  team, who has looked decent for Liverpool recently.

[Lord Duckhunter]

On 15/03/2024 at 21:03, Galway saint said:

He’s still got the same problems, shot stopping down to his left, poor positioning and the fact he just doesn’t make enough saves. 

 

Apart from his problems with goalkeeping, he’s a good keeper.

Edited 22 March, 2024 by Lord Duckhunter

[disconnect]

On 19/03/2024 at 19:52, losgigantes said:

I have seen a lot of goalkeepers live in the Championship this season who are on par or better than Bazunu. They are of a high standard and playing, sometimes, behind worse defences.

Bazunu will be lucky to keep his place above Kelleher, in the Ireland  team, who has looked decent for Liverpool recently.

I thought Viktor Johansson of Rotherham looked very good both times we played them. We would've destroyed them both times without some of his excellent saves. Dread to think how many points they'd be on without him in goal, and surely there'll be teams in the division looking to buy him in the summer.

I guess with Bazunu is that he (should've been) brought in as a future star, but still pretty raw in a few areas / prone to a monumental mistake. That is often due to our suicidal style football tapping around our own 6 yard box when teams are pressing us...! I feel he's been badly managed and should've come in alongside a more experienced pro at number 1, but we are where we are...

[Miltonaggro]

12 minutes ago, disconnect said:

I thought Viktor Johansson of Rotherham looked very good both times we played them. We would've destroyed them both times without some of his excellent saves. Dread to think how many points they'd be on without him in goal, and surely there'll be teams in the division looking to buy him in the summer.

I guess with Bazunu is that he (should've been) brought in as a future star, but still pretty raw in a few areas / prone to a monumental mistake. That is often due to our suicidal style football tapping around our own 6 yard box when teams are pressing us...! I feel he's been badly managed and should've come in alongside a more experienced pro at number 1, but we are where we are...

I agree, Johansson will get snapped up by a bigger club in the summer 100%.  Great all rounder. 

[Saint_clark]

8 hours ago, disconnect said:

 

I guess with Bazunu is that he (should've been) brought in as a future star, but still pretty raw in a few areas / prone to a monumental mistake. 

Yep, but just think of the profit we'll make when he's finally cut those mistakes out and is wanted by a Prem side!

[SNSUN]

12 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Yep, but just think of the profit we'll make when he's finally cut those mistakes out and is wanted by a Prem side!

  😀

[Weston Super Saint]

5 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Yep, but just think of the profit we'll make when he's finally cut those mistakes out and is wanted by a Prem side!

Get in!

[Wade Garrett]

He’s fucking useless and should be dropped.

[Lord Duckhunter]

4 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

He’s fucking useless and should be dropped.

He was piss poor yesterday. 

[Whitey Grandad]

37 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

He was piss poor yesterday. 

Very sloppy but not actually responsible for us not winning.

But he could have been.

[SaintsBarry74]

Get an average shot stopper in his place and we'll go up automatically. If by some miracle we do gain promotion this season, get an average shot stopper in his place and we'll avoid back-to-back relegation.

[danjosaint]

RM said at start of season he'd be in championship toty,  f*****g deluded, shows he's not a great judge of player but guess we all can see that 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

9 hours ago, SaintsBarry74 said:

Get an average shot stopper in his place and we'll go up automatically. If by some miracle we do gain promotion this season, get an average shot stopper in his place and we'll avoid back-to-back relegation.

How do you get back to back relegation if you’ve just been promoted and getting an average shot stopper will stop you being relegated? 😂 

[Saint_clark]

38 minutes ago, Behind Enemy Lines said:

How do you get back to back relegation if you’ve just been promoted and getting an average shot stopper will stop you being relegated? 😂 

Seasons outside of the Premier League don't count, obviously. 

[AlexLaw76]

1 hour ago, Behind Enemy Lines said:

How do you get back to back relegation if you’ve just been promoted and getting an average shot stopper will stop you being relegated? 😂 

2 relegations in 2 consecutive premier league seasons?

[Saint_clark]

15 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

2 relegations in 2 consecutive premier league seasons?

Good point. 

Let's hope we finish this season strong and get back to back promotions. 

[SambaMaverick]

Getting Rotherham's goalkeeper in is a must if we don't go up. Biggest no-brainer deal you'll ever see, will gain us 10+ points immediately

[Saint_clark]

5 minutes ago, SambaMaverick said:

Getting Rotherham's goalkeeper in is a must if we don't go up. Biggest no-brainer deal you'll ever see, will gain us 10+ points immediately

Unless we get lucky and Spurs or someone want to sign Bazunu already this won't be happening. Bazunu is the golden child of the management.