Gavin Bazunu

[egg]

1 minute ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

https://www.myfootballfacts.com/premier-league/all-time-premier-league/premier_league_goal_statistics/
 

PL stats - because the game didn’t exist before 1992 😉

Early mid nineties ~2.6 goals/game average across the season. 

Last few years ~2.8 goals/game. That’s 7% more goals scored. 

I was expecting to prove myself wrong!

 

You've proved that more goals have been scored. Not how or why. I think it's no more than tactics have changed and the game is now more open with more players joining the attack. 

Nutrition etc is relative - all players gain any advantage that gives - not just strikers. 

Anyhow, none of this alters that big Baz let's in shots he should be stopping. 

[Patches O Houlihan]

8 hours ago, egg said:

Nutrition etc is relative - all players gain any advantage that gives - not just strikers. 

If you want to believe that modern nutrition and training can dramatically improve a keeper’s reflexes to match the extra power and bend the ball is being hit with then you’re welcome to but I don’t. 
 

To take motor racing for comparison:

> The cars are faster, brake better, and grip better

>The drivers are fitter, stronger and eat better, and they’ve learned to drive using downforce.

> Do I believe that Max Verstappen’s reflexes are significantly quicker than those of Jim Clark? No I don’t.

[gio1saints]

3 hours ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

If you want to believe that modern nutrition and training can dramatically improve a keeper’s reflexes to match the extra power and bend the ball is being hit with then you’re welcome to but I don’t. 
 

To take motor racing for comparison:

> The cars are faster, brake better, and grip better

>The drivers are fitter, stronger and eat better, and they’ve learned to drive using downforce.

> Do I believe that Max Verstappen’s reflexes are significantly quicker than those of Jim Clark? No I don’t.

Interesting point patches - the point about reflexes in particular. 

I do think good reflexes can be inherited - like any particular gene handed down from generation to generation but Im not sure if it’s been medically identified yet! ( unless the discovery of fast twitch muscle counts) 
 

I also think goalie reflexes can be improved by diet training etc as egg Saint says  

Overall,  I think modern sports science probably trumps you on this. 

Athletes are generally stronger fitter faster than they were 50 years ago. Things like hand eye ball coordination training. Even eye spatial awareness training  ( remember Clive woodwards infamous training ideas?) didn’t even exist then but nowadays it’s trained and standard practise. Athletes can jump higher run faster and for longer. There’s no strong argument to say that reflexes of a goalie have not also improved. And for it to be “significant” means only a millisecond don’t forget. Without the tech data to hand I’d be confident that Baz’s reflexes are better than that of a comparable 20 year old div 2 goalie in 1960. 
NB. Equipment tech has evolved too. That heavy laced often water sodden leather ball being kicked around in the 1969’s has been replaced by lightweight fastertravelling versions. Ditto boots. And pitches. The goalies reactions to perform the same task as a goalie of 50 years earlier by necessity need speed up - and I think they probably have. 

Edited 4 January, 2024 by gio1saints

[gio1saints]

If anyone’s interested in the FA technical thinking behind modern goalkeeping theory - which is pretty much text book Bazunu and Saints PB football - check out the vid below.

The play is now Saints signature approach so it may help to be informed about what’s the actual rather than made up theory. 

Watching it should help answer some of the “why does he do that” questions of Baz and Saints play in general from the back. Not if it’s right or wrong to play like we do but just more of the theory behind it. 
 

It does not of course explain why he occasionally makes a mess of a save-able shot or like the other day a back pass! 

On the criteria they outline it’s clear to me why RM and many Saints fans ( incl. myself) rate Baz so highly and feel he has a great future. He is an “A” student of this style of goalkeeping play, ( note I still consider him a student) and at age 20/21 is certainly very advanced in it for his age relative to the league and even worldwide. 

NB.  Cue the usual sarcasm and abuse from some simply for posting this as an info guide but I’d rather you save it for your match day rants at Saints, PB football, RM etc. 😏. 

 

 

Edited 4 January, 2024 by gio1saints

[derry]

On 03/01/2024 at 21:56, Patches O Houlihan said:

The ball design, and the design of the boots has changed though. 

Think of the swerve that JWP could create - Bobby Charlton was not doing that. Material science and technique improvements.

You could also argue that improvements in nutrition, fitness and coaching mean the ball is being hit harder/faster/with less back lift - requiring quicker reflexes. 

Now I’m prepared to agree that maybe a few stand out players historically were delivering similar, but I would say the median top league striker is a far more potent goal scorer now than thirty years ago, never mind sixty years ago. 

 

I think this is the mythical assumption that modern is stronger and quicker. I knew John Sydenham he was the quickest player I've ever seen. Ron Davies was the best header and highest jumper I've ever seen. In my very early days at the Dell in the 1950's I saw Don Roper after he had come back from Arsenal hit a flat volley from the halfway line that went in under the diving goalkeeper and was hit so hard it hit the iron stanchion at the back of the net and came back out under the still airborn goalkeeper. 

[derry]

A few remarks have been made about the heavy leather balls this is a myth because since 1956 at least a new plastic coated valve ball without a lace was used for Saints and all other league matches and everywhere else, sometimes orange sometimes white. It was only junior league and school football where the old leather laced ball was sometimes used. Saints used to raffle the match ball, I won an orange one once. It was called penny on the ball.

[Patches O Houlihan]

3 hours ago, derry said:

I think this is the mythical assumption that modern is stronger and quicker. I knew John Sydenham he was the quickest player I've ever seen. Ron Davies was the best header and highest jumper I've ever seen. In my very early days at the Dell in the 1950's I saw Don Roper after he had come back from Arsenal hit a flat volley from the halfway line that went in under the diving goalkeeper and was hit so hard it hit the iron stanchion at the back of the net and came back out under the still airborn goalkeeper. 

I only got a B at ‘A’ level applied maths, but I suspect the physical laws of projectiles wouldn’t allow this, unless the volley was struck at more than 7ft height. 

[derry]

16 hours ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

I only got a B at ‘A’ level applied maths, but I suspect the physical laws of projectiles wouldn’t allow this, unless the volley was struck at more than 7ft height. 

Roper volleyed at hip height approx, it didn't go very high but it went like a rocket. it was up in the top right hand corner and hit the iron net support they used in those days and went down back under the goalkeeper. I was stood level with Roper behind the dugout and can still see it now. The goalkeeper dived but couldn't reach it and was on his way down when the ball came back out. As a retired airline captain I am well aware of lift, drag and aerodynamics having studied it for a year full time.and refreshed on courses for over forty years. I also had better than 20/20 vision and I know what I saw. Personally I wouldn't be citing 'A' levels as a criteria for expertise as it's pretty much at the bottom of the knowledge window.

[gallaghert366@yahoo.com]

7 minutes ago, derry said:

Roper volleyed at hip height approx, it didn't go very high but it went like a rocket. it was up in the top right hand corner and hit the iron net support they used in those days and went down back under the goalkeeper. I was stood level with Roper behind the dugout and can still see it now. The goalkeeper dived but couldn't reach it and was on his way down when the ball came back out. As a retired airline captain I am well aware of lift, drag and aerodynamics having studied it for a year full time.and refreshed on courses for over forty years. I also had better than 20/20 vision and I know what I saw. Personally I wouldn't be citing 'A' levels as a criteria for expertise as it's pretty much at the bottom of the knowledge window.

The demise of the lace up ball was in part a consequence of Ronnie Moore, West Ham, losing an eye from a loose lace.

[StDunko]

Lumley's decent performance today hopefully spurs him on to up his game.

[Patches O Houlihan]

3 hours ago, derry said:

Roper volleyed at hip height approx, it didn't go very high but it went like a rocket. it was up in the top right hand corner and hit the iron net support they used in those days and went down back under the goalkeeper. I was stood level with Roper behind the dugout and can still see it now. The goalkeeper dived but couldn't reach it and was on his way down when the ball came back out. As a retired airline captain I am well aware of lift, drag and aerodynamics having studied it for a year full time.and refreshed on courses for over forty years. I also had better than 20/20 vision and I know what I saw. Personally I wouldn't be citing 'A' levels as a criteria for expertise as it's pretty much at the bottom of the knowledge window.

This description I can completely believe. But that isn't how you first described it:

"I saw Don Roper after he had come back from Arsenal hit a flat volley from the halfway line that went in under the diving goalkeeper and was hit so hard it hit the iron stanchion at the back of the net and came back out under the still airborn goalkeeper."

If you had written the accurate description instead of a load of bollocks, then perhaps you wouldn't have felt the need to be such a condescending twat. I passed the aptitude tests to be a commercial pilot - just not the medical. 

[Lighthouse]

1 hour ago, StDunko said:

Lumley's decent performance today hopefully spurs him on to up his game.

Yep. He really needs to get his arse in gear and improve on 6 goals conceded in 12 games.

[tdmickey3]

Really looking good at moment

[Toadhall Saint]

3 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Really looking good at moment

Yep

[sfc4prem]

Superb today. Even with the goal I think he did all he could. Some great saves.

[saintant]

7 minutes ago, sfc4prem said:

Superb today. Even with the goal I think he did all he could. Some great saves.

Agree, Baz pulled off some very good saves near the end to keep our 2 goal lead intact when those in front of him decided to have a collective brain fart instigated by Stephens.

[Harry_SFC]

2 hours ago, sfc4prem said:

Superb today. Even with the goal I think he did all he could. Some great saves.

I've seen some people blaming him for the goal. If he doesn't come out and try to get the ball then Lowe has a free header 8 yards out. So I don't think you can put much of the blame on him for that. At the end of the day it was offside and handball.

[S-Clarke]

2 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

I've seen some people blaming him for the goal. If he doesn't come out and try to get the ball then Lowe has a free header 8 yards out. So I don't think you can put much of the blame on him for that. At the end of the day it was offside and handball.

People putting the goal on him are stretching really, I think for some fans every single goal we ever concede will be his fault.

He has been such an important figure in this run, pivotal in fact - we'd have lost at Preston had he not scored!

Edited 20 January, 2024 by S-Clarke

[Saint_clark]

He should have done better with the goal, but he made excellent saves to make up for it. 

He didn't "do all he could"...not sure why he was slowly shuffling out towards the player, he should have been running and reaching for the cross at full stretch. There's no need for him to maintain a low posture like he does when the ball is flying in the air.

[Wade Garrett]

Saved us in the second half.

[Saint_clark]

6 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

He should have done better with the goal, but he made excellent saves to make up for it. 

He didn't "do all he could"...not sure why he was slowly shuffling out towards the player, he should have been running and reaching for the cross at full stretch. There's no need for him to maintain a low posture like he does when the ball is flying in the air.

You can laugh all you like @tdmickey3but I just watched it back for the first time and it only reaffirms what I'm saying. When the cross is hit the Swansea player is on the edge of the D, when he connects with it he's just outside the 6 yard box. That means when the cross is hit, Bazunu is at most 6 yards from where the cross ends up and the attacking player is 17-18 yards from it. 

You might think he shouldn't do better in those circumstances but I bet you that Bazunu, Martin and the goalkeeping coaches will be taking it as a learning point for him. 

[Saint_clark]

6 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Saved us in the second half.

Agreed.

[Greedyfly]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

People putting the goal on him are stretching really, I think for some fans every single goal we ever concede will be his fault.

He has been such an important figure in this run, pivotal in fact - we'd have lost at Preston had he not scored!

It surely didn't get attributed to him, did it? Can't be arsed to look it up

[Saint_clark]

2 minutes ago, Greedyfly said:

It surely didn't get attributed to him, did it? Can't be arsed to look it up

It didn't, it was an own goal. Shame really as it was an epic moment and he'll almost certainly never come closer than that.

Edited 20 January, 2024 by Saint_clark

[AlexLaw76]

Excellent saves today!!

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

People putting the goal on him are stretching really, I think for some fans every single goal we ever concede will be his fault.

He has been such an important figure in this run, pivotal in fact - we'd have lost at Preston had he not scored!

I am not his greatest fan. I do acknowledge he has improved so far this season though.

Having said that, it's way over egging it to say he has been "pivotal" to our season. I'd wager any mid to average championship keeper would have us in the same position in the table 

[Galway saint]

he made a positive difference in the second half to the outcome of game today and to date he’s not done that enough for me but fair play to him today. we’ll need more of that when we play ipswich, leicester etc away 

 

[pingpong]

Player of the season for me so far. Its hard to compare him to other keepers in the league because his role is so different, but for me he is streets ahead of anyone else.  He's basically an extra outfield player for our passing game, and his completion stats are crazy considering he also hits the most long balls of any of our players.

Hopefully he stays fit because we lose a whole dimension to our play without him, and don't think we would get top two if he got injured. Irreplaceable.

[The Kraken]

6 minutes ago, pingpong said:

Player of the season for me so far. Its hard to compare him to other keepers in the league because his role is so different, but for me he is streets ahead of anyone else.  He's basically an extra outfield player for our passing game, and his completion stats are crazy considering he also hits the most long balls of any of our players.

Hopefully he stays fit because we lose a whole dimension to our play without him, and don't think we would get top two if he got injured. Irreplaceable.

Nowhere near it for me. Saying that he’s been better than any of KWP, THB, Downes or Adarma (with his 25 goal contributions) is mad. Bazunu’s distribution is excellent no doubt and he’s showing signs of improvement, played well today and kept us right in it no doubt. But he’s down that list for me, we’d be noticeably worse off without any of those I listed. Not sure I can say that about Baz. Not yet.

[Saint_clark]

1 hour ago, pingpong said:

Player of the season for me so far. Its hard to compare him to other keepers in the league because his role is so different, but for me he is streets ahead of anyone else.  He's basically an extra outfield player for our passing game, and his completion stats are crazy considering he also hits the most long balls of any of our players.

Hopefully he stays fit because we lose a whole dimension to our play without him, and don't think we would get top two if he got injured. Irreplaceable.

You what? Player of the season?

He isn't the keeper with the most passes (Leicesters) and while his pass completion is the highest in the league at 85%, there are 10 other keepers in the league with over 80%. His passing is good and keeps us ticking over but it isn't anything out of the ordinary. If he were pinging it directly to people anywhere on the pitch then fair enough, but i'm not going to fawn over a keeper for being able to pass it 10-20 yards accurately. 

[Harry_SFC]

5 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

You what? Player of the season?

He isn't the keeper with the most passes (Leicesters) and while his pass completion is the highest in the league at 85%, there are 10 other keepers in the league with over 80%. His passing is good and keeps us ticking over but it isn't anything out of the ordinary. If he were pinging it directly to people anywhere on the pitch then fair enough, but i'm not going to fawn over a keeper for being able to pass it 10-20 yards accurately. 

His long range passing is very accurate as well to be fair. I would say his all round passing ability is quite out of the ordinary for a keeper. Everything else not quite so much..

[Saint_clark]

20 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

His long range passing is very accurate as well to be fair. I would say his all round passing ability is quite out of the ordinary for a keeper. Everything else not quite so much..

Very fair point, and his accuracy for passes over 40 yards is the highest in the league - still only 45% so every other pass doesn't hit it's target but proof that his long range passing is more accurate. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

17 hours ago, pingpong said:

Player of the season for me so far. 

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Soft arsed goal conceded Tues and now today. His blunder gave them the foundation and a great start towards a win. Again, not good enough today. 

[Galway saint]

great to see the thread back up and running again 

its been too long…..

 

[LGTL]

Let’s be honest, he’s pretty fucking ordinary isn’t he. 

[Saint Matty 76]

Just now, LGTL said:

Let’s be honest, he’s pretty fucking ordinary isn’t he. 

To be honest if he was ordinary we’d be way better off

[miserableoldgit]

This is ridiculous. During the 25 game run nobody squinnyed. The Northam were chanting his name. Now that we have hit a rocky patch, the haters are out in force again....I bet that they were just waiting for this to happen....

[miserableoldgit]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Soft arsed goal conceded Tues and now today. His blunder gave them the foundation and a great start towards a win. Again, not good enough today. 

All of our players make mistakes or have bad games. Sadly when this applies to a goalkeeper it is more costly. On Tuesday the whole team was "Off".....it was a bad team performance. Our problem today was nothing to do with Bazunu. It was due to the fact that we played everything too wide and our balls into the box always went to Milwall players.....we had no cutting edge up front. It improved once AA came on but there wasn't enough urgency when we were 2-1 down. Maybe he should have done better with the first goal, but there are others that I can point the finger at for todays, and Tuesday's defeats.

[Lord Duckhunter]

How can you say it was nothing to do with Baz. He gave them a goal 5 mins into the game. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

4 minutes ago, miserableoldgit said:

All of our players make mistakes or have bad games. Sadly when this applies to a goalkeeper it is more costly. On Tuesday the whole team was "Off".....it was a bad team performance. Our problem today was nothing to do with Bazunu. It was due to the fact that we played everything too wide and our balls into the box always went to Milwall players.....we had no cutting edge up front. It improved once AA came on but there wasn't enough urgency when we were 2-1 down. Maybe he should have done better with the first goal, but there are others that I can point the finger at for todays, and Tuesday's defeats.

He could have done a lot better with both goals. Tuesday, he pushed it back out into the penalty area, having made the save it needed to be pushed wider, didn't even think it was a particularly hard hit shot. Today, if he was coming for the ball, he should have made sure he got there. Not sure if he was trying to punch it or catch it. He obviously got put off by their player, who was more decisive and wanted it more. 

[Wade Garrett]

Crap

[Miltonaggro]

Watch it you beastly lot, the Bazunettes will be out in force shortly to iron you out! 
 

[Galway saint]

If you look at the huddersfield, hull and milwall games he was materially responsible for the first goal in each. ok we are not playing well as a team so it’s not all down to him at all and far from it, but you’re just making things a lot harder when your keeper isn’t doing his job and as somebody said above he is a very ordinary keeper. next year if we don’t go up we may be an ordinary team in this division  so he will be a good fit for us but last year and this year we need/needed something better 

[S-Clarke]

The goalkeeper is the very least of our problems. There's not much wrong with him, unless your expectations are that of Ederson or prime De Gea.

[Block41 Saint]

We spent north of £10m on a goalkeeper after a bang average year in League One. Laughable. 

[Lighthouse]

Just now, Block41 Saint said:

We spent north of £10m on a goalkeeper after a bang average year in League One. Laughable. 

He was Pompey's player of the season and for the most part he has been absolutely fine this season. Anyone playing in the Championship is going to make a fair share of mistakes, goalkeepers included. I've seen plenty of goals against other teams this season which Baz would have been absolutely slaughtered for, against keepers who fans have been absolutely raving about.

[miserableoldgit]

5 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

The goalkeeper is the very least of our problems. There's not much wrong with him, unless your expectations are that of Ederson or prime De Gea.

Exactly!

[miserableoldgit]

12 minutes ago, Miltonaggro said:

Watch it you beastly lot, the Bazunettes will be out in force shortly to iron you out! 
 

Pathetic.....

[Miltonaggro]

2 minutes ago, miserableoldgit said:

Pathetic.....

Absolutely, you need to work on the pyramid and splits…