Gavin Bazunu

[Little Lat Pahars]

8 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

I agree. It only looked that good for him because he's normally so slow to dive for those kinds of shots, this time he actually committed early. 

Are you talking about the save in the 2nd half low to his right that he tipped round the corner?

[Galway saint]

it’s a long shot and a routine save down to his left.

its his achilles heel.

he was winning me round but its a glaring technical deficiency. 

 

[Saint_clark]

14 minutes ago, Little Lat Pahars said:

Are you talking about the save in the 2nd half low to his right that he tipped round the corner?

Not sure what half it was in as I was working so only saw the highlights that went up shortly after the game, but yeah low to his right. 

[hypochondriac]

38 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

I agree. It only looked that good for him because he's normally so slow to dive for those kinds of shots, this time he actually committed early. 

It was a good save but it's not exactly Niemi level where you watch open mouthed that he managed to pull off a stop. 

[Little Lat Pahars]

20 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Not sure what half it was in as I was working so only saw the highlights that went up shortly after the game, but yeah low to his right. 

I think you're letting your bias get in the way of objectivity here. It was a really good save (not world class as Hypochondriac has pointed out but still a really good save), even the Watford commentators who don't have any bias towards Bazunu were saying what a good save it was.

[Challenger]

A couple (or more) goals to the good and the odd mistake will be irrelevant.

Like I said in another post, aiming for a 50% pass mark in an exam leaves no margin for error if you make one slip up.

The REAL problem lies at the other end of the pitch.

[Harry_SFC]

A few people here are quick to slag off Bazunu when he makes an error (fair enough) but then when he makes a great save it's just "routine".

It wasn't world class but if you don't think that was a brilliant save then you're agenda is getting the better of you.

[Saint_clark]

Just watched it again, good save sure but when I look at saves like that I imagine if it had been conceded would we be saying he could do nothing about it or that he should have done better? That's a save you'd expect a first choice keeper to make, end of. 

It bounced twice before it got to him, that shows it wasnt hit particularly well.

[The Kraken]

9 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Just watched it again, good save sure but when I look at saves like that I imagine if it had been conceded would we be saying he could do nothing about it or that he should have done better? That's a save you'd expect a first choice keeper to make, end of. 

It bounced twice before it got to him, that shows it wasnt hit particularly well.

Agree to disagree I think. The first one I still think was a very good save, low down and right in the corner.

The goal was an absolute howler though. Still not sure how it went in.

 

[Lighthouse]

It was a very good save, some people just need to talk down everything Bazunu does. He could have done better with the goal, as with a couple of the Sunderland goals and one against Boro. On the flip side his shot stopping is generally sound, he communicates very well with his defence, comes out and deals with stuff (the Cardiff header) and his district excellent. Since getting our act together in September we’ve conceded 1-0-1-1-2-1-0-1-1-0-0-1. That’s 9 goals in 12 games, which should be good enough to win any league. 

[Whitey Grandad]

It was a poor effort from Bazunu but it shows the importance of having a shot no matter how speculative it might seem.

[badgerx16]

When the shot low to his right came in my immediate reaction was that it was a goal, but he pulled out a good save. When the shot in added time came in it was so obviously scuffed that there was no way it was going in.

Sums Bazunu up in 2 moments.

[Lord Duckhunter]

3 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

It was a good save but it's not exactly Niemi level where you watch open mouthed that he managed to pull off a stop. 

Most Premier league keepers would have saved that and at least half of the keepers in this league. He cost us the points yesterday, pure and simple. Same old same old, he’s absolutely woeful at dealing with long range efforts.  When we come to the business end of the season he’s going to kill us unless he addresses this major deficiency. 

[Challenger]

3 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

It was a very good save, some people just need to talk down everything Bazunu does. He could have done better with the goal, as with a couple of the Sunderland goals and one against Boro. On the flip side his shot stopping is generally sound, he communicates very well with his defence, comes out and deals with stuff (the Cardiff header) and his district excellent. Since getting our act together in September we’ve conceded 1-0-1-1-2-1-0-1-1-0-0-1. That’s 9 goals in 12 games, which should be good enough to win any league. 

The problem is those 9 goals have probably cost a point apiece.

[Lighthouse]

4 minutes ago, Challenger said:

The problem is those 9 goals have probably cost a point apiece.

0.75 goals conceded per game would literally have been the best defence in the league last season. It’s utterly laughable that people talk about this as ‘costing us points’.

[CB Fry]

38 minutes ago, Challenger said:

The problem is those 9 goals have probably cost a point apiece.

Is your expectation that we should be conceding zero goals across 12 games?

[AlexLaw76]

3 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Is your expectation that we should be conceding zero goals across 12 games?

Probably just not yesterday's goal would be a starter-for-10

[Patches O Houlihan]

26 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

0.75 goals conceded per game would literally have been the best defence in the league last season. It’s utterly laughable that people talk about this as ‘costing us points’.

It feels like about 25% of the commenters here expect us to win easily 3-0 every week. Anything other than that and they have to go looking for a scapegoat. On match days when we win this board is quiet as the grave 15 mins after the match. But if we draw then Baz, RM, Manning get it in the neck; + whichever player's aggressive through ball that they've been pushing to see gets cut out by a defender and lumped up the pitch for a goal.

 

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

It feels like about 25% of the commenters here expect us to win easily 3-0 every week. Anything other than that and they have to go looking for a scapegoat. On match days when we win this board is quiet as the grave 15 mins after the match. But if we draw then Baz, RM, Manning get it in the neck; + whichever player's aggressive through ball that they've been pushing to see gets cut out by a defender and lumped up the pitch for a goal.

 

I dont believe people think we should win 3-0 every week at all. What I think people believed, is that top 2 would not be over as a contest by now. Which was reality many weeks ago

[Patches O Houlihan]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I dont believe people think we should win 3-0 every week at all. What I think people believed, is that top 2 would not be over as a contest by now. Which was reality many weeks ago

But that isn't because we are significantly under performing as a team. As far as I'm aware we are within a point or two of the 'average top Championship team' points haul at the relevant stage of the season, and have been for the last month or so. 

The issue is that Ipswich and Leicester are having freak seasons. Usually Leeds & Saints would be the league leaders, having built a useful; cushion over the chasing pack. 

[AlexLaw76]

5 minutes ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

But that isn't because we are significantly under performing as a team. As far as I'm aware we are within a point or two of the 'average top Championship team' points haul at the relevant stage of the season, and have been for the last month or so. 

The issue is that Ipswich and Leicester are having freak seasons. Usually Leeds & Saints would be the league leaders, having built a useful; cushion over the chasing pack. 

Freak seasons? Maybe, but we are all playing the same teams, right?

I see the 12 game unbeaten run is getting much hype online, by the club and fans. During the period of those 12 games, both Leicester and Ipswich had dodgy results..yet, we have only gained 1 whole point on Ipswich. Is it a freak season, or have we dropped (drawn) a couple too many, compounded with losing to Ipswich at home (in a terrible performance)?

Edited 10 December, 2023 by AlexLaw76

[Lighthouse]

2 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Freak seasons? Maybe, but we are all playing the same teams, right?

I see the 12 game unbeaten run is getting much hype online, by the club and fans. During the period of those 12 games, both Leicester and Ipswich had dodgy results..yet, we have only gained 1 whole point on Ipswich. Is it a freak season, or have we dropped (drawn) a couple too many?

It’s a freak season. Even including our awful September we’ve averaged enough points per game to finish on 87, which last season would have put us 3rd and 4 points behind Sheff United. Ipswich and Leicester are on course for 111 and 113 points respectively, both comfortably a record total for this league.

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Lighthouse said:

It’s a freak season. Even including our awful September we’ve averaged enough points per game to finish on 87, which last season would have put us 3rd and 4 points behind Sheff United. Ipswich and Leicester are on course for 111 and 113 points respectively, both comfortably a record total for this league.

They wont get that level come the end of the season, but we need to maintain this sort of 'unbeaten run' to realistically reel them (and leeds) in.  That aint going to happen either, not whilst most of our games are decided by 1 goal.

[Patches O Houlihan]

It probably doesn't help that all our 50/50 games against the expected league leaders appeared in such a tight space of time, just after we lost our big PL stars and before the Championship team had had a proper chance to gel and get used to the new style.

I don't have the stats to hand right now. I might go and have a look. 

2022-23 Burnley finished first on 101 points (2.20 points/game average). Sheffield Utd were second on 91 point (1.98 points/game average)

2021-22 Fulham finished first on 90 points (1.96 points/game average). Bournemouth were second on 88 points (1.91 average)

2020-21 Norwich won 97 points (2.11 average). Watford second 91  points (1.98 average)

2019-20 Leeds won 93 points (2.02 average) West Brom second 83 points (1.80 average)

 

Right now with 20 games played Leeds are averaging 2.05 points, and Saints are averaging 1.90 points, which normally, assuming teams improve a bit over the course of the year would be bang on top two team status. BUT Leicester are currently on 2.45 average, and Ipswich are on 2.40 average.

That's what I mean by a freak season.

 

 

[AlexLaw76]

5 minutes ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

It probably doesn't help that all our 50/50 games against the expected league leaders appeared in such a tight space of time, just after we lost our big PL stars and before the Championship team had had a proper chance to gel and get used to the new style.

I don't have the stats to hand right now. I might go and have a look. 

2022-23 Burnley finished first on 101 points (2.20 points/game average). Sheffield Utd were second on 91 point (1.98 points/game average)

2021-22 Fulham finished first on 90 points (1.96 points/game average). Bournemouth were second on 88 points (1.91 average)

2020-21 Norwich won 97 points (2.11 average). Watford second 91  points (1.98 average)

2019-20 Leeds won 93 points (2.02 average) West Brom second 83 points (1.80 average)

 

Right now with 20 games played Leeds are averaging 2.05 points, and Saints are averaging 1.90 points, which normally, assuming teams improve a bit over the course of the year would be bang on top two team status. BUT Leicester are currently on 2.45 average, and Ipswich are on 2.40 average.

That's what I mean by a freak season.

 

 

We are all playing the same teams, so we shall see. I cannot see BOTH Ipswich and Leicester maintaining this form for another 20 games...but i can't see us doing so either, which would be pretty poor IMO.

On another note, with the complete disparity in finances with parachute payments, these 'freak seasons' may become more common over the coming years, depending who gets relegated.

Edited 10 December, 2023 by AlexLaw76

[Patches O Houlihan]

6 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

They wont get that level come the end of the season, but we need to maintain this sort of 'unbeaten run' to realistically reel them (and leeds) in.  That aint going to happen either, not whilst most of our games are decided by 1 goal.

I broadly agree with this. But I think we'd do better to focus on scoring more goals rather than giving Baz a hard time. 

4 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Since getting our act together in September we’ve conceded 1-0-1-1-2-1-0-1-1-0-0-1. That’s 9 goals in 12 games, which should be good enough to win any league. 

This I also agree with

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Patches O Houlihan said:

I broadly agree with this. But I think we'd do better to focus on scoring more goals rather than giving Baz a hard time. 

This I also agree with

I agree with that, hence my point further up (or on another thread), we just will not maintain our own form (let alone claw back 10 points on 2nd place), whilst most of our games are decided by 1 goal.

 

[Patches O Houlihan]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

I agree with that, hence my point further up (or on another thread), we just will not maintain our own form (let alone claw back 10 points on 2nd place), whilst most of our games are decided by 1 goal.

 

I think its reasonable to expect us to loose at least another 4 or 5 games. So on that basis I agree. 

So I guess we ought to get the players fired up with a tournament mentality to win the playoffs, practise penalties, and turn Baz into a penalty stopping machine!

[The Kraken]

We could definitely do with scoring more but, to put it in context, we’re the 5th highest scorers in the league. It’s hardly atrocious.

Our goals against is still pretty poor after the disastrous September but even that is much improved of late.

I still think we’re a little below pre season expectations, but not by much. Leicester and Ipswich have turned it all upside down, they’ve both been incredible.

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, The Kraken said:

We could definitely do with scoring more but, to put it in context, we’re the 5th highest scorers in the league. It’s hardly atrocious.

Our goals against is still pretty poor after the disastrous September but even that is much improved of late.

I still think we’re a little below pre season expectations, but not by much. Leicester and Ipswich have turned it all upside down, they’ve both been incredible.

Ipswich have got to drop more than the odd point over the next few games, surely?

• Watford19:45Ipswich Town
   

Saturday 16th December

CHAMPIONSHIP

• Ipswich Town12:30Norwich City
   

Saturday 23rd December

CHAMPIONSHIP

• Leeds United12:30Ipswich Town
   

Tuesday 26th December

CHAMPIONSHIP

• Ipswich Town19:45Leicester City

[CB Fry]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Ipswich have got to drop more than the odd point over the next few games, surely?

• Watford19:45Ipswich Town

Saturday 16th December

CHAMPIONSHIP

• Ipswich Town12:30Norwich City

Saturday 23rd December

CHAMPIONSHIP

• Leeds United12:30Ipswich Town

Tuesday 26th December

CHAMPIONSHIP

• Ipswich Town19:45Leicester City

Lose all four and still be above us?

[Patches O Houlihan]

2 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Ipswich have got to drop more than the odd point over the next few games, surely?

• Watford19:45Ipswich Town

Saturday 16th December

CHAMPIONSHIP

• Ipswich Town12:30Norwich City

Saturday 23rd December

CHAMPIONSHIP

• Leeds United12:30Ipswich Town

Tuesday 26th December

CHAMPIONSHIP

• Ipswich Town19:45Leicester City

Our December fixtures certainly look a lot more winnable 

 

 

[Galway saint]

10 minutes ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

I think its reasonable to expect us to loose at least another 4 or 5 games. So on that basis I agree. 

So I guess we ought to get the players fired up with a tournament mentality to win the playoffs, practise penalties, and turn Baz into a penalty stopping machine!

hopefully teams will hit them to his right hand side 

[pimpin4rizeal]

5 hours ago, Harry_SFC said:

A few people here are quick to slag off Bazunu when he makes an error (fair enough) but then when he makes a great save it's just "routine".

It wasn't world class but if you don't think that was a brilliant save then you're agenda is getting the better of you.

It’s not just about making the odd good save though .. or being good with his feet .. he’s just not very trustworthy .. he does let in a lot of weak looking goals. Surprised the amount of praise he gets on here ..he’s not what I’d call a safe pair of hands 

[The Kraken]

2 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

It’s not just about making the odd good save though .. or being good with his feet .. he’s just not very trustworthy .. he does let in a lot of weak looking goals. Surprised the amount of praise he gets on here ..he’s not what I’d call a safe pair of hands 

🤣

Genuinely surprised at that comment tbf. He’s about the most pilloried player we’ve got (and not without substance).

[pimpin4rizeal]

29 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

🤣

Genuinely surprised at that comment tbf. He’s about the most pilloried player we’ve got (and not without substance).

It’s a bit of both tbh .. which is why this thread is always so busy .. he gets a crap ton of excuses and people defending him too .. just in recent weeks he got done by that by Rotherham goal, the cross that ended up a goal and now this .. 

would things like these keep happening with Niemi in goal  ?

[Harry_SFC]

9 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

It’s a bit of both tbh .. which is why this thread is always so busy .. he gets a crap ton of excuses and people defending him too .. just in recent weeks he got done by that by Rotherham goal, the cross that ended up a goal and now this .. 

would things like these keep happening with Niemi in goal  ?

No but why are you comparing him with Niemi, one of our best keepers? I don't think anyone should expect him to be that good, especially at Bazunu's age.

Edited 10 December, 2023 by Harry_SFC

[Whitey Grandad]

I’ve just watched the extended highlights and whilst Bazunu should have done better I’m surprised that no one has mentioned the role of Bednarek in their goal. He’s close enough to Healey to block the shot but instead turns away from him and the shot goes through his legs. The consequence is that Bazunu has to lean to the right in order to see the ball and then has to suddenly adjust to his left and ends up mishandling the shot. It goes some way to explaining where he goes wrong but does not excuse him.
 

This is not the first time that Bednarek has got in the way and done nothing to block the shot. His only contribution is to block the view of his own goalkeeper. If he kep his eyes on the ball he would block a lot more goal efforts.

[spyinthesky]

Trouble is 'keepers nowadays need to be the first line of attack and last line of defence ie a lot of Managers place the emphasis on distribution rather than the ability to stop shots.
I wonder how Gordon Banks or Peter Shilton would have got on in today's game\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/

[Whitey Grandad]

10 minutes ago, spyinthesky said:

Trouble is 'keepers nowadays need to be the first line of attack and last line of defence ie a lot of Managers place the emphasis on distribution rather than the ability to stop shots.
I wonder how Gordon Banks or Peter Shilton would have got on in today's game\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/

Too true. 
 

And whatever happened to the old-fashioned goal kicks where the keeper just hoofed the ball upfield to the sound of an appropriate chant from the crowd?

[CanadaSaint]

32 minutes ago, spyinthesky said:

Trouble is 'keepers nowadays need to be the first line of attack and last line of defence ie a lot of Managers place the emphasis on distribution rather than the ability to stop shots.
I wonder how Gordon Banks or Peter Shilton would have got on in today's game\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/

The goal reflects exactly that. Bazunu was playing well off his line in order to be that "last line of defence". The major danger is something going over his head. The other big danger is that a shot will come when he's back-pedalling - a situation in which it's really difficult to adjust sideways. A keeper's widest reach comes when he's advancing, the narrowest when he's retreating.

He'll let both kinds in this season - likely more to come. It's the price of bringing those "last line" things, and being the initial launch point for attacks, both of which are central to how we play, and both of which he does extremely well. On balance, for me, he's much more an asset than a liability.

[david in sweden]

9 hours ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

It’s a bit of both tbh .. which is why this thread is always so busy .. he gets a crap ton of excuses and people defending him too .. just in recent weeks he got done by that by Rotherham goal, the cross that ended up a goal and now this .. 

would things like these keep happening with Niemi in goal  ?

not a good comparison to make ... Niemi was already 30 years old and an experienced international keeper when he came to Saints.

I liked his game a lot, and he is one of my favourite keepers during the 60-odd years I've been a Saints fan.

Much has already been written on this thread already, but keepers always get the criticism for lost points whilst strikers miss chances -

and even sitters sometimes, and yet people still come away saying they had " bad luck ".

Goals win games, but Saints are still a one-man band with our dependence on Adam Armstrong.  His efforts alone has helped us win 20 points this season.

Blaming the keeper is always the easy option.      Up until the 95th minute.. I would have made Bazunu man of the match for his efforts. 

[Challenger]

18 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Is your expectation that we should be conceding zero goals across 12 games?

My expectation is that we should try and score more at the other end to try and negate the few we let in.

[Challenger]

21 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

0.75 goals conceded per game would literally have been the best defence in the league last season. It’s utterly laughable that people talk about this as ‘costing us points’.

Yeah, I was really pissing myself laughing when Watford got their goal because as you say it didn't effect our points tally from the game or drop us further from the top three at all , did it.

Yes, the goals against tally is good over the unbeaten run, as is the possession stats but, unfortunately the goals for and the " hang on to the one goal lead" philosophy IS costing points.

[malcolm waldron]

9 hours ago, david in sweden said:

not a good comparison to make ... Niemi was already 30 years old and an experienced international keeper when he came to Saints.

I liked his game a lot, and he is one of my favourite keepers during the 60-odd years I've been a Saints fan.

Much has already been written on this thread already, but keepers always get the criticism for lost points whilst strikers miss chances -

and even sitters sometimes, and yet people still come away saying they had " bad luck ".

Goals win games, but Saints are still a one-man band with our dependence on Adam Armstrong.  His efforts alone has helped us win 20 points this season.

Blaming the keeper is always the easy option.      Up until the 95th minute.. I would have made Bazunu man of the match for his efforts. 

I always thought Niemi was "funnished......"

[pimpin4rizeal]

10 hours ago, david in sweden said:

not a good comparison to make ... Niemi was already 30 years old and an experienced international keeper when he came to Saints.

I liked his game a lot, and he is one of my favourite keepers during the 60-odd years I've been a Saints fan.

Much has already been written on this thread already, but keepers always get the criticism for lost points whilst strikers miss chances -

and even sitters sometimes, and yet people still come away saying they had " bad luck ".

Goals win games, but Saints are still a one-man band with our dependence on Adam Armstrong.  His efforts alone has helped us win 20 points this season.

Blaming the keeper is always the easy option.      Up until the 95th minute.. I would have made Bazunu man of the match for his efforts. 

I’m not really comparing him to Niemi rather just pointing out that if we had a keeper like that we wouldn’t be letting in this amount of soft goals .. 

as far as experience thing if I had my way we wouldn’t keep trying to be clever with kids in goal anyway .. we end up getting punished whilst they are on their learning curve and if he reaches a great standard .he will probably bugger off to a big club anyway .. and I doubt we would even make a big profit as keepers are not usually hugely expensive. 

Just doesn’t seem worth it to me 

[david in sweden]

3 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

I’m not really comparing him to Niemi rather just pointing out that if we had a keeper like that we wouldn’t be letting in this amount of soft goals .. 

as far as experience thing if I had my way we wouldn’t keep trying to be clever with kids in goal anyway .. we end up getting punished whilst they are on their learning curve and if he reaches a great standard .he will probably bugger off to a big club anyway .. and I doubt we would even make a big profit as keepers are not usually hugely expensive. 

Just doesn’t seem worth it to me 

 

Goalies have to learn their game , and you can't expect a 24/25 year old to suddenly appear and DAJFU.. unless " imported "  from another country.

In the last 10-12 years we've had a series of  " older / experienced " keepers.... ( Boruc, Forster, McCarthy) and although they had occasional runs of good games ,

the same criticisms pop up, (with some saying that they were too old ! ). Whilst we are on a good unbeaten run at present , we still need to score more, as the clubs

around us are doing .   My point has always been that goalies will almost always concede goals, but there's not enough being scored by our current strike force.

[St. Ciervo]

On 09/12/2023 at 11:32, Wade Garrett said:

Terrible mistake for the goal.

The saves made looked pretty routine to me.

Hugely disappointing.

When a save looks routine, it means the goalie did EVERYTHING right. He made that one on one save beautifully by cutting down the angle and closing holes. Looked routine and robotic, but it was hardly either. 

[S-Clarke]

Any mentions of his save at 1-1 to get us that point? It was excellent. I think he's having a good run with us at the moment, certainly improving in my eyes and one of the key reasons (arguably the only reason) we're unbeaten in 13.

[maysie]

2 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Any mentions of his save at 1-1 to get us that point? It was excellent. I think he's having a good run with us at the moment, certainly improving in my eyes and one of the key reasons (arguably the only reason) we're unbeaten in 13.

Yep was a fantastic save, really strong arm. His issue seems to be from long range low to the left where he just doesn’t seem to set himself right. You’d hope that is coachable  though.