Gavin Bazunu

[Saint_clark]

1 hour ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

I’d like to know how Clark reacted when RM said on Tuesday at the forum that he was fully behind Baz.

Did he break a bottle? Throw the remote at the TV? Driving rampage? What happened 👀

Just rolled my eyes. I don't understand how the club can be so oblivious to such an obvious weak link which would cost a relatively small amount to rectify - as in, it would cost less to buy one of the championships top keepers last season than it would to buy the top scorer.

[Lord Duckhunter]

All Baz did yesterday was his job, all he did was put in a performance expected from a championship keeper, nothing more, nothing less. The fact people are hailing this run of the mill performance, shows how fucking awful he’s been previously. Talk about damning with faint praise. 

[FarehamSaintJames]

Who actually were the stand out keepers in the Championship last year? 🤨

[Saint_clark]

52 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Who actually were the stand out keepers in the Championship last year? 🤨

Muric and Woodman spring to mind but I'm not sure beyond that. I think that's why a scouting department exists though.

[Saint IQ]

Perfect Keeper for the way RM wants to play and he will get better, he's our keeper for as long as RM is here so might as well accept it and enjoy the ride.

[Dirkdiggler]

Baz is rated outside of here as one of the best u23 goalkeepers in Europe makes most top 10 lists 🤷🏻‍♂️ I think he will find his feet this season and improve.

[SaintsBarry74]

On 20/08/2023 at 21:41, Lord Duckhunter said:

All Baz did yesterday was his job, all he did was put in a performance expected from a championship keeper, nothing more, nothing less. The fact people are hailing this run of the mill performance, shows how fucking awful he’s been previously. Talk about damning with faint praise. 

Statistically, he was one of the worst keepers in the top5 big leagues last season, and that's out of at least 150 goalkeepers. So yes your emphasis on awful is prob not wrong.

[Miltonaggro]

On 21/08/2023 at 00:42, Dirkdiggler said:

Baz is rated outside of here as one of the best u23 goalkeepers in Europe makes most top 10 lists 🤷🏻‍♂️ I think he will find his feet this season and improve.

Currently he’s certainly in the top three keepers at Southampton FC. 

[Weston Super Saint]

On 21/08/2023 at 00:42, Dirkdiggler said:

Baz is rated outside of here as one of the best u23 goalkeepers in Europe makes most top 10 lists 🤷🏻‍♂️ I think he will find his feet this season and improve.

I think he was number one in Europe wasn't he - but not in the way you are expecting...

18 minutes ago, SaintsBarry74 said:

Statistically, he was one of the worst keepers in the top5 big leagues last season, and that's out of at least 150 goalkeepers. So yes your emphasis on awful is prob not wrong.

 

[SaintsBarry74]

On 21/08/2023 at 01:42, Dirkdiggler said:

Baz is rated outside of here as one of the best u23 goalkeepers in Europe makes most top 10 lists 🤷🏻‍♂️ I think he will find his feet this season and improve.

Sorry but that just doesn't make any sense, below, you'll find the bottom10 goalkeeping statistics out of 208 goalkeepers in the top 5 European leagues. He is statistically the worst keeper when measured on key performance indicators such as save % and post shot expected goals against, for instance he let in 16.6 goals that he should have saved which places him last (out of 208 GKs!! Ffs!).

 

Edited 22 August, 2023 by SaintsBarry74

[LordHester]

3 minutes ago, SaintsBarry74 said:

Sorry but that just doesn't make any sense, below, you'll find the bottom10 goalkeeping statistics out of 208 goalkeepers in the top 5 European leagues. He is statistically the worst keeper when measured on key performance indicators such as save % and post shot expected goals against, for instance he let in 16.6 goals that he should have saved which places him last (out of 208 GKs!! Ffs!).

 

I say this for no other reason that context, but I believe that statistics say Wesley Hoedt is one of the best defenders in the Championship; but I doubt many would have him back to St Mary's.

[Lighthouse]

Statistically the goal Baz conceded at Plymouth and the one Taibi conceded against Tiss are both the same.

[Wade Garrett]

Dealt with some difficult balls in the box well on Saturday.  Good to see.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, SaintsBarry74 said:

Sorry but that just doesn't make any sense, below, you'll find the bottom10 goalkeeping statistics out of 208 goalkeepers in the top 5 European leagues. He is statistically the worst keeper when measured on key performance indicators such as save % and post shot expected goals against, for instance he let in 16.6 goals that he should have saved which places him last (out of 208 GKs!! Ffs!).

 

Oh God help us. Football has gone mad.

[Galway saint]

8 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Oh God help us. Football has gone mad.

You have a strange aversion to statistics and to say they play no part in assessing a players performance in football is nonsense. If a striker scores a goal a game that would tend to suggest he’s a good striker. Equally if a goalkeeper fails to save a high percentage of shots it tends to suggest he’s not much good at shot stopping. Looking at the stats regarding bazanu I’d say those aren’t a surprise given what we saw with our own eyes last season. 

[Whitey Grandad]

6 minutes ago, Galway saint said:

You have a strange aversion to statistics and to say they play no part in assessing a players performance in football is nonsense. If a striker scores a goal a game that would tend to suggest he’s a good striker. Equally if a goalkeeper fails to save a high percentage of shots it tends to suggest he’s not much good at shot stopping. Looking at the stats regarding bazanu I’d say those aren’t a surprise given what we saw with our own eyes last season. 

Nothing strange a bout it. Statistics are for mugs. I know all about data analysis and it can have its uses but it has to be used with extreme caution.

Your two examples are not comparable. A striker scoring goals is straightforward because the player himself is in control of what he does with the ball. His results are not stochastic. Or of course he might just be facing poor goalkeepers.

”Shots on target” can mean anything. I have seen games where a shot has been blocked at source yet doesn’t appear in the figures for that game. They are meaningless and too subjective to be of any analytical use. There are too many variables. They belong in the same realm as roulette algorithms.

 

[Galway saint]

36 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Nothing strange a bout it. Statistics are for mugs. I know all about data analysis and it can have its uses but it has to be used with extreme caution.

Your two examples are not comparable. A striker scoring goals is straightforward because the player himself is in control of what he does with the ball. His results are not stochastic. Or of course he might just be facing poor goalkeepers.

”Shots on target” can mean anything. I have seen games where a shot has been blocked at source yet doesn’t appear in the figures for that game. They are meaningless and too subjective to be of any analytical use. There are too many variables. They belong in the same realm as roulette algorithms.

 

In a single game yes but over a season of 40 games or so they tell a story and as the stat corroborated what we say with our eyes ie he didn’t make many saves 

 

[SaintsBarry74]

6 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Nothing strange a bout it. Statistics are for mugs. I know all about data analysis and it can have its uses but it has to be used with extreme caution.

Your two examples are not comparable. A striker scoring goals is straightforward because the player himself is in control of what he does with the ball. His results are not stochastic. Or of course he might just be facing poor goalkeepers.

”Shots on target” can mean anything. I have seen games where a shot has been blocked at source yet doesn’t appear in the figures for that game. They are meaningless and too subjective to be of any analytical use. There are too many variables. They belong in the same realm as roulette algorithms.

 

When we look at a full season's performance and factor in expected goals against, Bazunu's ranking as 208th out of 208 goalkeepers in Europe's top leagues on these two key metrics should certainly raise some concern, shouldn't it?

https://fbref.com/en/comps/Big5/2022-2023/keepersadv/players/2022-2023-Big-5-European-Leagues-Stats 

[Nolan]

28 minutes ago, SaintsBarry74 said:

When we look at a full season's performance and factor in expected goals against, Bazunu's ranking as 208th out of 208 goalkeepers in Europe's top leagues on these two key metrics should certainly raise some concern, shouldn't it?

https://fbref.com/en/comps/Big5/2022-2023/keepersadv/players/2022-2023-Big-5-European-Leagues-Stats 

Surely you should worry about "unexpected goals against" rather than "expected goals against".?

"I  didn't expect that one to go in"

 

 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, SaintsBarry74 said:

When we look at a full season's performance and factor in expected goals against, Bazunu's ranking as 208th out of 208 goalkeepers in Europe's top leagues on these two key metrics should certainly raise some concern, shouldn't it?

https://fbref.com/en/comps/Big5/2022-2023/keepersadv/players/2022-2023-Big-5-European-Leagues-Stats 

Such metrics are tosh. ‘Expected goals against’? Who ever dreamt up such rubbish? They are subjective at best. One person’s opinion about what might happen. 
 

Why is it that figures such as ‘expected goals never, ever, end up being near the actual result?

58 minutes ago, Nolan said:

Surely you should worry about "unexpected goals against" rather than "expected goals against".?

"I  didn't expect that one to go in"

 

 

Exactly!

[Saint_clark]

1 hour ago, Nolan said:

Surely you should worry about "unexpected goals against" rather than "expected goals against".?

"I  didn't expect that one to go in"

 

 

That's exactly what that figure is "worrying" about. 

It's saying that he conceded more goals than expected to based on the quality of the chances, and when compared to the record of other keepers came out worse than any other. 

[Nolan]

4 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

That's exactly what that figure is "worrying" about. 

It's saying that he conceded more goals than expected to based on the quality of the chances, and when compared to the record of other keepers came out worse than any other. 

Even so. if we pretend Xg is a valid stat (Which it isnt) its a team stat. So the Xg for teams attacking should be applied to the opposition NOT the goalkeeper of the opposition.

Like in the 4-4 against Norwich none of the goals were Bazunus fault. 

Edited 23 August, 2023 by Nolan

[Weston Super Saint]

7 hours ago, Galway saint said:

In a single game yes but over a season of 40 games or so they tell a story and as the stat corroborated what we say with our eyes ie he didn’t make many saves 

 

In a single game the statistics can be subjective and flawed based on one person's opinion?

Ever heard the phrase 'two wrongs don't make a right'?  If you're basing the stats over a whole season based on the flawed stats of each individual game, you'll end up with flawed stats for the whole season....

[Saint_clark]

Just now, Nolan said:

Even so. if we pretend Xg is a valid stat (Which it isnt) its a team stat. So the Xffor tems attacking should be applied to the opposition NOT the goalkeeper of the opposition.

Like in the 4-4 against Norwich none of the goals were Bazunus fault. 

Guess you don't understand how it's calculated then. And it absolutely is valid. It shows that Bazunu conceded 16 chances that historically keepers were more likely to save than not. 

[Weston Super Saint]

Just now, Saint_clark said:

Guess you don't understand how it's calculated then. And it absolutely is valid. It shows that Bazunu conceded 16 chances that historically keepers were more likely to save than not. 

Historically, 'keepers didn't have Janny fucking B, DCC or Lyanco in front of them....

[Saint_clark]

Just now, Weston Super Saint said:

Historically, 'keepers didn't have Janny fucking B, DCC or Lyanco in front of them....

That's irrelevant to the quality of the chance and the likelihood of it being scored or saved. 

[Nolan]

2 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Guess you don't understand how it's calculated then. And it absolutely is valid. It shows that Bazunu conceded 16 chances that historically keepers were more likely to save than not. 

 

That is ludicrous.

[musesaint]

1 minute ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Historically, 'keepers didn't have Janny fucking B, DCC or Lyanco in front of them....

Too bloody right!
 

We have one of the best keepers in the Championship but the haters cannot stop hating once they have selected their victim. 

[AlexLaw76]

10 minutes ago, musesaint said:

Too bloody right!
 

We have one of the best keepers in the Championship but the haters cannot stop hating once they have selected their victim. 

What have you got to back that claim up? 

[Nolan]

6 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

What have you got to back that claim up? 

Estimated Market Values?

 

[Weston Super Saint]

23 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

That's irrelevant to the quality of the chance and the likelihood of it being scored or saved. 

That is ludicrous.

[Convict Colony]

11 hours ago, SaintsBarry74 said:

Statistically, he was one of the worst keepers in the top5 big leagues last season, and that's out of at least 150 goalkeepers. So yes your emphasis on awful is prob not wrong.

how were our central defenders rated out of the big 5 leagues ?

[Weston Super Saint]

Just now, Convict Colony said:

how were our central defenders rated out of the big 5 leagues ?

Apparently, central defenders are irrelevant when it comes to chances / quality of chances to score.  Lunacy.

[Nolan]

I want to see wind direction reported on all Match statistics.

What other way can we make sure that all historically accurate data is directly comparable.?

Edited 23 August, 2023 by Nolan

[Galway saint]

1 hour ago, musesaint said:

Too bloody right!
 

We have one of the best keepers in the Championship but the haters cannot stop hating once they have selected their victim. 

Don’t be hysterical. It’s a football forum where people express a view on a game of football and the players. 

[Saint_clark]

3 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

That is ludicrous.

It's really not. The defenders may give up chances but that has no bearing on whether he has the ability to make the save at the end of it.

3 hours ago, Nolan said:

Estimated Market Values?

 

So you're going to put stock in THAT but not statistical analysis which is used by experts throughout the professional game world wide to judge performance? 😂

[Nolan]

 

31 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

It's really not. The defenders may give up chances but that has no bearing on whether he has the ability to make the save at the end of it.

So you're going to put stock in THAT but not statistical analysis which is used by experts throughout the professional game world wide to judge performance? 😂

So you're actually questioning our statistics department as apparently you can see something they can't.

 

 

 

[Dirkdiggler]

16 hours ago, SaintsBarry74 said:

Sorry but that just doesn't make any sense, below, you'll find the bottom10 goalkeeping statistics out of 208 goalkeepers in the top 5 European leagues. He is statistically the worst keeper when measured on key performance indicators such as save % and post shot expected goals against, for instance he let in 16.6 goals that he should have saved which places him last (out of 208 GKs!! Ffs!).

 

You missed the U23 part….

[Dirkdiggler]

And….

[Dirkdiggler]

And…..

 

https://topsoccerblog.com/top-best-young-goalkeepers-world/

[Lord Duckhunter]

I don’t need statistics to tell me he was fucking pony last season, my bins can do that. 
 

Got to laugh at the Bazenettes parsing him because he hasn’t made a Cock up yet this season (apart from the horrific attempt against Norwich when the Lino bailed him out, and preseason). When he actually starts stopping shots that others would let in, that’s the time to praise him. To go up we will need a keeper gaining us points well as not losing us any. I’ve seen nothing yet to suggest he’s going to do that yet. 

[Lighthouse]

10 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I don’t need statistics to tell me he was fucking pony last season, my bins can do that. 
 

Got to laugh at the Bazenettes parsing him because he hasn’t made a Cock up yet this season (apart from the horrific attempt against Norwich when the Lino bailed him out, and preseason). When he actually starts stopping shots that others would let in, that’s the time to praise him. To go up we will need a keeper gaining us points well as not losing us any. I’ve seen nothing yet to suggest he’s going to do that yet. 

So a player scoring a rebound literally because he was offside and therefore nearer the ball than the defenders is now, ‘the Lino bailing him out’? Sounds like you’re in for a very miserable and frustrating season.

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

So a player scoring a rebound literally because he was offside and therefore nearer the ball than the defenders is now, ‘the Lino bailing him out’? Sounds like you’re in for a very miserable and frustrating season.

It was horrendous goalkeeping.  No excuses. And with Baz in nets it probably will be frustrating & miserable as I’ve seen nothing to suggest he’s got the quality we’re going to need

Edited 23 August, 2023 by Lord Duckhunter

[Dirkdiggler]

I also think he has room for improvement.

Just pointing out that in the world outside of saintsweb he’s rated very highly. 
 

That’s rated not statistically for goalkeepers U23 in case anyone gets confused 😐 😂

[Dirkdiggler]

Hey sambamaverick let’s hear your option with some resourced information? 

[SambaMaverick]

16 minutes ago, Dirkdiggler said:

Hey sambamaverick let’s hear your option with some resourced information? 

I've already done that to death earlier in this thread.

I wouldn't call what you've posted resourced, either, it's literally just a list.

[Dirkdiggler]

Yep just pulled them out me arse….

[derry]

It's about time this thread was closed. It's obvious it's been kept on life support by around half a dozen biased posters that aren't prepared to cut him some slack. The facts as I see them, he has let in six goals this season and in my opinion had no chance with any of them. The criticism would be better aimed at the ball watching back four. KWP who doesn't track back or mark the only threat on the far post,  Manning who needs new studs and learn to recognise a time and place not to try and pull the ball down with his spare foot, Bednarek who will blame anybody and everybody whilst failing to recognise he took no action, Stephens who ball watches and backs off instead of closing down. All ended up giving away the goals. Alcaraz marking nobody who didn't bother picking up Rowe being marked by nobody. Russell Martin needs to get a grip on the lack of competent defending. Bazunu hasn't been bad at all. 

[FarehamSaintJames]

Close this thread, even if temporary.

The bias/hatred towards him is a bit far fetched now.

If Saints won the FA Cup final 2-1 but saved a last minute penalty, some of the posters on this thread would be focusing on the one he conceded.

 

[Dirkdiggler]

Problem is most making comments have no idea about goalkeeping either.