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Gavin Bazunu

hypochondriac

By hypochondriac,
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Baird of the land

Baird of the land

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Polegategavin243 said:

When was the “cocking about with it” event(s) in the game yesterday. He actually seemed to be much more assured and not messing about with the ball yesterday, unlike both our centre backs who got away with at least a couple each where Plymouth nearly nicked the ball.

First half he passed the ball straight to a plymouth striker, fortunately they messed up the attack.

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Saint_clark

Saint_clark

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Polegategavin243 said:

When was the “cocking about with it” event(s) in the game yesterday. He actually seemed to be much more assured and not messing about with the ball yesterday, unlike both our centre backs who got away with at least a couple each where Plymouth nearly nicked the ball.

I didn't make a note of the exact time. If I had, no doubt I'd have been attacked similarly to how I have for presenting the stats on his save record. Which in case you've forgotten so far says you will score a goal with every 4 shots on target.

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coalman

coalman

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

I didn't make a note of the exact time. If I had, no doubt I'd have been attacked similarly to how I have for presenting the stats on his save record. Which in case you've forgotten so far says you will score a goal with every 4 shots on target.

That's not how stats work. You can say they have scored a goal for every 4 shots on target but you cannot say will. And that's before the gross over simplification that all shots or chances are equal.

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Saint_clark

Saint_clark

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, coalman said:

That's not how stats work. You can say they have scored a goal for every 4 shots on target but you cannot say will. And that's before the gross over simplification that all shots or chances are equal.

That's why I'm keeping track of it to see how it progresses. 

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Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted
42 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

I presented the stat without any opinion attached, it's you lot that took this further. 

Why don't we just wait and see what happens and if he turns me around I'm more than happy to hold my hands up and admit so.

“the stat”

You still don’t get it. 

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FarehamSaintJames

FarehamSaintJames

Posted
Posted
Just now, Saint_clark said:

We'll see. My opinion is he's shit and will never come good. Let's see how he progresses 👍

He’s not world class by a long way. He was poor last season but then again as was everyone, plus the judgement by the club that a player of his age could go from League One to the Premier League was baffling. That I agree with.

As for this season so far, he hasn’t done anything to affect a game negatively yet. Jury’s out for him at this time.

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Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

I didn't make a note of the exact time. If I had, no doubt I'd have been attacked similarly to how I have for presenting the stats on his save record. Which in case you've forgotten so far says you will score a goal with every 4 shots on target.

“shots on target”

When will you ever learn?

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Saint86

Saint86

Posted
Posted

He's a good keeper for this level and for how we want to play. Clearly has a very strong mentality and self confidence, and he's got the potential to become a very good keeper. 

His saves / post shot expected goals ratio was poor last year, sure... but in fairness to him, statistically the stats he's being compared against weren't from other defences spontaneously assisting the strikers with no/little warning. 

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Saint_clark

Saint_clark

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

You’re wasting your time. You are free to waste yours but please don’t waste mine.

I'm not forcing you to reply to my posts. I'm fully entitled to post on here same as anyone else.

11 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

So I was right yesterday, your posts are fully agenda driven.

I've never hidden the fact that I think he's shit. I am still fully open to changing my opinion. 

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The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

I don't buy that Hardie would definitely have score if he hadn't dive, still has a bit to do. Although the incident isn't on the highlights, so can't check. What I do know is that it was never a penalty, I can't believe that's even a question. 

It’s at 4.50 on this video. The striker could have scored but he touched the ball quite hard past Bazunu so I think he’d have been shooting from a pretty tight angle. I wouldn’t at all say he would’ve definitely scored but he’d have had a reasonable chance either to shoot from a tight angle or control it and either bring it back to shoot or play in an onrushing midfielder (though Saints also had two or three others charging back to cover in addition to the central defenders).

I thought it was rash from Bazunu to commit so much for it but fair play, he controlled his dive and it absolutely was not a foul imo.

 

 

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Fan The Flames

Fan The Flames

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

It’s at 4.50 on this video. The attacked could have scored but he touched the ball quite hard past Bazunu so I I think he’d have been shooting from a pretty tight angle. I wouldn’t at all say he would’ve definitely scored but he’d have had a reasonable chance either to shoot from a tight angle or control it and either bring it back to shoot or play in an untrusting midfielder (though Saints also had two or three others charging back to cover in addition to the central defenders).

I thought it was rash from Bazunu to come out for it but fair play, he controlled his dive and it absolutely was not a foul imo.

Thanks, yes still a lot to do and his heavy touch didn't help him. You're righta bit rash but he control himself. 

Also haven't the rules changed a bit this year regarding goalkeepers fouling forwards.

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St. Ciervo

St. Ciervo

Posted
Posted

Baz's confident charge out put pressure on Hardie and forced the bad touch, no? If Baz sits back, Hardie turns in and has time to line up a dangerous shot on goal. Imagine what Clark might have said then...

Dangerous run turned out to be harmless. Great job, Baz.

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The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, St. Ciervo said:

Baz's confident charge out put pressure on Hardie and forced the bad touch, no? If Baz sits back, Hardie turns in and has time to line up a dangerous shot on goal. Imagine what Clark might have said then...

Dangerous run turned out to be harmless. Great job, Baz.

I wouldn’t say it was a “great” job tbf. And I’m not being critical of Bazunu either, i think he did ok in the situation.  Watch it back on the video and Bazunu has a really good starting position, he’s almost on the edge of the area doing the sweeper keeper thing. When I first saw I thought he was a bit reckless diving in as he did, but I also praise him for that dive being well controlled so as not to clean out the attacker. It worked out ok, no error as I see it, but also not great in the same breath in that the situation played out to his fortune. If the striker had not gone looking for the dive and just knocked it past, it’s a different story and no-one has any idea how it turns out (I’ve seen comments on here saying it’s an easy goal but I disagree with that, although it definitely would’ve given a genuine chance). Anyway, no harm no foul, it came to nothing. Tge major fault lies with the striker who tried to cheat his way to a penalty.

 

Edited by The Kraken
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Saint_clark

Saint_clark

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

I’d like to know how Clark reacted when RM said on Tuesday at the forum that he was fully behind Baz.

Did he break a bottle? Throw the remote at the TV? Driving rampage? What happened 👀

Just rolled my eyes. I don't understand how the club can be so oblivious to such an obvious weak link which would cost a relatively small amount to rectify - as in, it would cost less to buy one of the championships top keepers last season than it would to buy the top scorer.

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SaintsBarry74

SaintsBarry74

Posted
Posted
On 20/08/2023 at 21:41, Lord Duckhunter said:

All Baz did yesterday was his job, all he did was put in a performance expected from a championship keeper, nothing more, nothing less. The fact people are hailing this run of the mill performance, shows how fucking awful he’s been previously. Talk about damning with faint praise. 

Statistically, he was one of the worst keepers in the top5 big leagues last season, and that's out of at least 150 goalkeepers. So yes your emphasis on awful is prob not wrong.

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Miltonaggro

Miltonaggro

Posted
Posted
On 21/08/2023 at 00:42, Dirkdiggler said:

Baz is rated outside of here as one of the best u23 goalkeepers in Europe makes most top 10 lists 🤷🏻‍♂️ I think he will find his feet this season and improve.

Currently he’s certainly in the top three keepers at Southampton FC. 

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Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted
On 21/08/2023 at 00:42, Dirkdiggler said:

Baz is rated outside of here as one of the best u23 goalkeepers in Europe makes most top 10 lists 🤷🏻‍♂️ I think he will find his feet this season and improve.

I think he was number one in Europe wasn't he - but not in the way you are expecting...

18 minutes ago, SaintsBarry74 said:

Statistically, he was one of the worst keepers in the top5 big leagues last season, and that's out of at least 150 goalkeepers. So yes your emphasis on awful is prob not wrong.

 

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SaintsBarry74

SaintsBarry74

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 21/08/2023 at 01:42, Dirkdiggler said:

Baz is rated outside of here as one of the best u23 goalkeepers in Europe makes most top 10 lists 🤷🏻‍♂️ I think he will find his feet this season and improve.

Sorry but that just doesn't make any sense, below, you'll find the bottom10 goalkeeping statistics out of 208 goalkeepers in the top 5 European leagues. He is statistically the worst keeper when measured on key performance indicators such as save % and post shot expected goals against, for instance he let in 16.6 goals that he should have saved which places him last (out of 208 GKs!! Ffs!).

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LordHester

LordHester

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, SaintsBarry74 said:

Sorry but that just doesn't make any sense, below, you'll find the bottom10 goalkeeping statistics out of 208 goalkeepers in the top 5 European leagues. He is statistically the worst keeper when measured on key performance indicators such as save % and post shot expected goals against, for instance he let in 16.6 goals that he should have saved which places him last (out of 208 GKs!! Ffs!).

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I say this for no other reason that context, but I believe that statistics say Wesley Hoedt is one of the best defenders in the Championship; but I doubt many would have him back to St Mary's.

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Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, SaintsBarry74 said:

Sorry but that just doesn't make any sense, below, you'll find the bottom10 goalkeeping statistics out of 208 goalkeepers in the top 5 European leagues. He is statistically the worst keeper when measured on key performance indicators such as save % and post shot expected goals against, for instance he let in 16.6 goals that he should have saved which places him last (out of 208 GKs!! Ffs!).

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Oh God help us. Football has gone mad.

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Galway saint

Galway saint

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Oh God help us. Football has gone mad.

You have a strange aversion to statistics and to say they play no part in assessing a players performance in football is nonsense. If a striker scores a goal a game that would tend to suggest he’s a good striker. Equally if a goalkeeper fails to save a high percentage of shots it tends to suggest he’s not much good at shot stopping. Looking at the stats regarding bazanu I’d say those aren’t a surprise given what we saw with our own eyes last season. 

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Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Galway saint said:

You have a strange aversion to statistics and to say they play no part in assessing a players performance in football is nonsense. If a striker scores a goal a game that would tend to suggest he’s a good striker. Equally if a goalkeeper fails to save a high percentage of shots it tends to suggest he’s not much good at shot stopping. Looking at the stats regarding bazanu I’d say those aren’t a surprise given what we saw with our own eyes last season. 

Nothing strange a bout it. Statistics are for mugs. I know all about data analysis and it can have its uses but it has to be used with extreme caution.

Your two examples are not comparable. A striker scoring goals is straightforward because the player himself is in control of what he does with the ball. His results are not stochastic. Or of course he might just be facing poor goalkeepers.

”Shots on target” can mean anything. I have seen games where a shot has been blocked at source yet doesn’t appear in the figures for that game. They are meaningless and too subjective to be of any analytical use. There are too many variables. They belong in the same realm as roulette algorithms.

 

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Galway saint

Galway saint

Posted
Posted
36 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Nothing strange a bout it. Statistics are for mugs. I know all about data analysis and it can have its uses but it has to be used with extreme caution.

Your two examples are not comparable. A striker scoring goals is straightforward because the player himself is in control of what he does with the ball. His results are not stochastic. Or of course he might just be facing poor goalkeepers.

”Shots on target” can mean anything. I have seen games where a shot has been blocked at source yet doesn’t appear in the figures for that game. They are meaningless and too subjective to be of any analytical use. There are too many variables. They belong in the same realm as roulette algorithms.

 

In a single game yes but over a season of 40 games or so they tell a story and as the stat corroborated what we say with our eyes ie he didn’t make many saves 

 

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SaintsBarry74

SaintsBarry74

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Nothing strange a bout it. Statistics are for mugs. I know all about data analysis and it can have its uses but it has to be used with extreme caution.

Your two examples are not comparable. A striker scoring goals is straightforward because the player himself is in control of what he does with the ball. His results are not stochastic. Or of course he might just be facing poor goalkeepers.

”Shots on target” can mean anything. I have seen games where a shot has been blocked at source yet doesn’t appear in the figures for that game. They are meaningless and too subjective to be of any analytical use. There are too many variables. They belong in the same realm as roulette algorithms.

 

When we look at a full season's performance and factor in expected goals against, Bazunu's ranking as 208th out of 208 goalkeepers in Europe's top leagues on these two key metrics should certainly raise some concern, shouldn't it?

https://fbref.com/en/comps/Big5/2022-2023/keepersadv/players/2022-2023-Big-5-European-Leagues-Stats 

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Nolan

Nolan

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, SaintsBarry74 said:

When we look at a full season's performance and factor in expected goals against, Bazunu's ranking as 208th out of 208 goalkeepers in Europe's top leagues on these two key metrics should certainly raise some concern, shouldn't it?

https://fbref.com/en/comps/Big5/2022-2023/keepersadv/players/2022-2023-Big-5-European-Leagues-Stats 

Surely you should worry about "unexpected goals against" rather than "expected goals against".?

"I  didn't expect that one to go in"

 

 

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Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, SaintsBarry74 said:

When we look at a full season's performance and factor in expected goals against, Bazunu's ranking as 208th out of 208 goalkeepers in Europe's top leagues on these two key metrics should certainly raise some concern, shouldn't it?

https://fbref.com/en/comps/Big5/2022-2023/keepersadv/players/2022-2023-Big-5-European-Leagues-Stats 

Such metrics are tosh. ‘Expected goals against’? Who ever dreamt up such rubbish? They are subjective at best. One person’s opinion about what might happen. 
 

Why is it that figures such as ‘expected goals never, ever, end up being near the actual result?

58 minutes ago, Nolan said:

Surely you should worry about "unexpected goals against" rather than "expected goals against".?

"I  didn't expect that one to go in"

 

 

Exactly!

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Saint_clark

Saint_clark

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Nolan said:

Surely you should worry about "unexpected goals against" rather than "expected goals against".?

"I  didn't expect that one to go in"

 

 

That's exactly what that figure is "worrying" about. 

It's saying that he conceded more goals than expected to based on the quality of the chances, and when compared to the record of other keepers came out worse than any other. 

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Nolan

Nolan

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

That's exactly what that figure is "worrying" about. 

It's saying that he conceded more goals than expected to based on the quality of the chances, and when compared to the record of other keepers came out worse than any other. 

Even so. if we pretend Xg is a valid stat (Which it isnt) its a team stat. So the Xg for teams attacking should be applied to the opposition NOT the goalkeeper of the opposition.

Like in the 4-4 against Norwich none of the goals were Bazunus fault. 

Edited by Nolan
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Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Galway saint said:

In a single game yes but over a season of 40 games or so they tell a story and as the stat corroborated what we say with our eyes ie he didn’t make many saves 

 

In a single game the statistics can be subjective and flawed based on one person's opinion?

Ever heard the phrase 'two wrongs don't make a right'?  If you're basing the stats over a whole season based on the flawed stats of each individual game, you'll end up with flawed stats for the whole season....

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Saint_clark

Saint_clark

Posted
Posted
Just now, Nolan said:

Even so. if we pretend Xg is a valid stat (Which it isnt) its a team stat. So the Xffor tems attacking should be applied to the opposition NOT the goalkeeper of the opposition.

Like in the 4-4 against Norwich none of the goals were Bazunus fault. 

Guess you don't understand how it's calculated then. And it absolutely is valid. It shows that Bazunu conceded 16 chances that historically keepers were more likely to save than not. 

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Nolan

Nolan

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Guess you don't understand how it's calculated then. And it absolutely is valid. It shows that Bazunu conceded 16 chances that historically keepers were more likely to save than not. 

 

Shocked Jimmy Fallon GIF by The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon

That is ludicrous.

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musesaint

musesaint

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Historically, 'keepers didn't have Janny fucking B, DCC or Lyanco in front of them....

Too bloody right!
 

We have one of the best keepers in the Championship but the haters cannot stop hating once they have selected their victim. 

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  • Lighthouse changed the title to Gavin Bazunu

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