Gavin Bazunu

[Convict Colony]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Alphabetically

He's fifth, alphabetically, of all Championship keepers. What a marvellous stat to hold!

Although, arguably, he should be promoted to the heady heights of fourth as Runar Alex Runarsson should technically be in the 'R' section.

hahahaha didnt notice that but the stats look pretty valid

[gio1saints]

Most of SMS have a different pov to some of his long standing critics on here. Most of SMS are chanting his name every game during before and after match end. They recognise his ability & courage and recognise playing this way FDuk ups will occur. They know he is a big talent but also he is effing brave to play this way and that confidence is critical - so our support vital. 
 

I share that view. overreacting to that mistake would be a worse mistake imo.
 

Most of our PB play was very good indeed. Some not so good and 1% bad. That’s life. We are lucky ( should say grateful actually, to players like Baz for having the courage to persist in the face of all the wailing and abuse at SMS early season) we get so much very good almost every match nowadays it’s a privilege to watch and high value for the ticket price - unlike many previous seasons. 
 

Good goalie is Baz, could be great continues this line of progress. 😇

[Colinjb]

15 hours ago, Convict Colony said:

Compared to last season the bro has improved massively especially since he receives the ball way more.  Some of his "saves" have been weak but he is a young keeper and will improve, i think people underestimate how much his passing gives our CBs and wing backs freedom and quickly they forget him forcing last minute goal and saves in some recent games.

Stats so far - not sure how they sort this but he looks like the 5th best keeper so far.

 

The youngest first choice keeper in the league and 5th place amongst his peers. 

In that basis he is doing alright. 

[VectisSaint]

3 minutes ago, Colinjb said:

The youngest first choice keeper in the league and 5th place amongst his peers.

Good job his name isn't Young, he'd be ranked much lower. 😉

[Turkish]

We’ve conceded 3 goals in our last 7 games two of them were Bazunu cock ups. One of them cost us 2 points. He has fuck all to do Friday night aside from collect a few crosses. Same with Swansea, Blackburn and Cardiff games. He’s not the new Mary Earps yet. 

[Huffton]

On 29/12/2023 at 21:36, Whitey Grandad said:

Oh dear.

Too cocky by half. We can only hope that lessons are learnt by everyone involved. At that stage of the game anywhere but there would have been the better choice.

100% this. The whole team were getting far too laid back and cocky at that point, and we got punished for it. Baz will likely shoulder the blame but did he even need to recieve the pass in the first pace? Did we need to put him under that much pressure? Whilst he won't say it publically you can bet RM is fuming about it and put a rocket up the whole team in the dressing room afterwards.

[rallyboy]

The best players are those with the skill and confidence to play out from the back - and the judgement to know when to hoof it into the car park.

Hopefully lessons were learned.

[AlexLaw76]

54 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

Most of SMS have a different pov to some of his long standing critics on here. Most of SMS are chanting his name every game during before and after match end. They recognise his ability & courage and recognise playing this way FDuk ups will occur. They know he is a big talent but also he is effing brave to play this way and that confidence is critical - so our support vital. 
 

I share that view. overreacting to that mistake would be a worse mistake imo.
 

Most of our PB play was very good indeed. Some not so good and 1% bad. That’s life. We are lucky ( should say grateful actually, to players like Baz for having the courage to persist in the face of all the wailing and abuse at SMS early season) we get so much very good almost every match nowadays it’s a privilege to watch and high value for the ticket price - unlike many previous seasons. 
 

Good goalie is Baz, could be great continues this line of progress. 😇

As we have established, football fans are horrendously biased for the own team/players.

[Highfield Saint]

6 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

As we have established, football fans are horrendously biased for the own team/players.

Not on here though 

[gio1saints]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

As we have established, football fans are horrendously biased for the own team/players.

@AlexLaw76 I don’t think calling baz a good goalie who could be a great goalie if he continues his current trajectory is horrendously biased. Maybe biased but horrendously so. Nah. 🤣. 

If you dont think he’s a good goalie that’s fine but to suggest that having that opinion one must be horrendously biased is a bit ott and suggests you have a very different view of his ability but choose not to say it. Fair enough. 

Im not going to do the research ( unless I really must..) but my gut tells me there are not too many current International goalkeepers of his age. ✅That alone already unbiased and objectively praiseworthy fact. 

Nor are there many starting goalkeepers in this league or the one above of his tender age. again unbiased objective fact  ✅

Let alone keepers asked to play in a style hitherto the domain of outfielders. Ie almost like a sweeper and with plenty more ball touches per match. Again, unbiased objective fact. ✅

Add that he’s been in goal for every minute of the unbeaten run in which he had already made many significant saves ( and scored a last minute equaliser - almost!) and I think suggesting it’s horrendously biased to say he is a good goalie - and could be great - is unwarranted. 

Im sure plenty teams would want Gav as their goalie so let’s enjoy him while he is here ( ok brain fart silly goals aside!) 🤣

Edited 31 December, 2023 by gio1saints

[VectisSaint]

1 hour ago, Huffton said:

100% this. The whole team were getting far too laid back and cocky at that point, and we got punished for it. Baz will likely shoulder the blame but did he even need to recieve the pass in the first pace? Did we need to put him under that much pressure? Whilst he won't say it publically you can bet RM is fuming about it and put a rocket up the whole team in the dressing room afterwards.

But he did say it publicly. He said we lost our positivity and played too many back passses (or words to that effect) post match, but that he wouldn't blame Gav in any way. We do still have a tendency to go defensive at times when we don't need to. Not sure if it's fatigue (mental) that sets in, but it is something we need to cut out. There was also nothing wrong with Jack's pass, Gav had loads of time to deal with it, but we all saw what happened, just one of those moments every player has from time.to time. As it turned out no harm was done, except to GD, but it made forma nervous end to what was otherwise a complete walk in the park.

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, Convict Colony said:

hahahaha didnt notice that but the stats look pretty valid

Sort the table by save% and the landscape changes dramatically...

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

3 hours ago, gio1saints said:

Good goalie is Baz, could be great continues this line of progress. 😇

He's a dodgy keeper and does not inspire confidence. At Watford, the last minute goal. When the guy shot I though 'phew' that's not going in, only to be surprised by the home crowd roar as Bazza proceeded to dive over the ball and let it in. He is slow getting down, especially to his left. 

[Saint_clark]

I will admit and have in the past that I have no doubt Bazunu will be a top keeper, in fact I think he'll reach a level that we wouldn't be able to sign him if we hadn't signed him young. 

But once he gets to that point he'll be off to another side anyway, so why the hell should we spend years developing a keeper, putting up with poor performances and tons of mistakes for the first year or two at least, just to ship him off elsewhere for another club to reap the rewards once he actually reaches that level? 

And then probably start the process all over again with another young keeper who we need to accept will make mistakes consistently for 2-3 seasons.

Edited 31 December, 2023 by Saint_clark

[gio1saints]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

But once he gets to that point he'll be off to another side anyway, so why the hell should we spend years developing a keeper, putting up with poor performances and tons of mistakes for the first year or two at least, just to ship him off elsewhere for another club to reap the rewards once he actually reaches that level? 

And then probably start the process all over again with another young keeper who we need to accept will make mistakes consistently for 2-3 seasons.

Probably, Because we can’t afford a finished article top class goalkeeper with that profile.

And even if we did find a goalie of that calibre would they be prepared to come to SFC?

And even if somehow they fancied it and we were able to afford him they would likely be in their prime or post prime and losing value each year- unlike a young keeper like Baz who ( assuming continues his trajectory of improvement ) gets more valuable each year and especially when and if back in EPL.  
 

Buy and play young talent mix with some experience then sell them after a few years development has pretty much been our model since we been in the EPL. Prefer it was not so I agree with your feeling- but don’t think there’s much we can do about it..

[Saint_clark]

23 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

Probably, Because we can’t afford a finished article top class goalkeeper with that profile.

And even if we did find a goalie of that calibre would they be prepared to come to SFC?

And even if somehow they fancied it and we were able to afford him they would likely be in their prime or post prime and losing value each year- unlike a young keeper like Baz who ( assuming continues his trajectory of improvement ) gets more valuable each year and especially when and if back in EPL.  
 

Buy and play young talent mix with some experience then sell them after a few years development has pretty much been our model since we been in the EPL. Prefer it was not so I agree with your feeling- but don’t think there’s much we can do about it..

Young talent mixed with experience is the way to go no doubt, but keeper should always be one of the experienced ones. 

[Patches O Houlihan]

4 hours ago, Huffton said:

100% this. The whole team were getting far too laid back and cocky at that point, and we got punished for it. Baz will likely shoulder the blame but did he even need to recieve the pass in the first pace? Did we need to put him under that much pressure? Whilst he won't say it publically you can bet RM is fuming about it and put a rocket up the whole team in the dressing room afterwards.

RM did publicly give the defence a rocket for having passed to Baz too many times in the last 10 minutes of the match - speaking to Adam Blackmore (BBC)

Here's the link to Convict's table

I'm sure Whitey will be unsurprised to learn that Baz is 5th from last at PSxG+/- 

Edited 31 December, 2023 by Patches O Houlihan
link

[Saint_clark]

20 minutes ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

RM did publicly give the defence a rocket for having passed to Baz too many times in the last 10 minutes of the match - speaking to Adam Blackmore (BBC)

Here's the link to Convict's table

I'm sure Whitey will be unsurprised to learn that Baz is 5th from last at PSxG+/- 

He didn't, surely? We've picked a goalkeeper based on his ability to control and pass the ball especially under pressure and he doesn't want his defenders passing to him? 

[Whitey Grandad]

37 minutes ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

RM did publicly give the defence a rocket for having passed to Baz too many times in the last 10 minutes of the match - speaking to Adam Blackmore (BBC)

Here's the link to Convict's table

I'm sure Whitey will be unsurprised to learn that Baz is 5th from last at PSxG+/- 

You will also be unsurprised to learn that such figures are total bollocks.

Whatever they are supposed to mean. We are playing football here, not Top Trumps.

[Whitey Grandad]

18 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

He didn't, surely? We've picked a goalkeeper based on his ability to control and pass the ball especially under pressure and he doesn't want his defenders passing to him? 

If he wants passes like that then he’s an idiot. There’s a very old maxim that goes “never pass across your own goal area”

[Saint_clark]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

If he wants passes like that then he’s an idiot. There’s a very old maxim that goes “never pass across your own goal area”

That pass wasn't across the goal area, it was directly to the keeper. 

And if we're going to avoid passing it around the box because of the dangers that presents well then that makes a fucking mockery of carrying on with a keeper who is weak at the traditional basics of keeping but good with his feet.

[Tom & Gerry]

I realise Bazuna is  a marmite keeper, but surely we've heard all the arguments by now. We've conceded a goal, at last, get over it

[pingpong]

On 30/12/2023 at 10:20, Lord Duckhunter said:

The difference is Allisson & Ederson make world class saves that win their sides points and they rarely let soft goals in like the Watford equaliser. They are “great” keepers, Baz is an average one at the moment. We have the ridiculous situation where he performs adequately and some want to over hype it. Still I guess adequate is an improvement on last year. 
 

 

Bazunu save percentage 65.1%

Ederson save percentage 64.7%

 

https://youtube.com/shorts/BLrED-RYGRg?si=ThS9E0HINWECRIjH

 

 

 

[Saint_clark]

4 minutes ago, pingpong said:

Bazunu save percentage 65.1%

Ederson save percentage 64.7%

 

https://youtube.com/shorts/BLrED-RYGRg?si=ThS9E0HINWECRIjH

 

 

 

Bazunu save percentage 65.1% in a league where Adam Armstrong is a prolific goalscorer.

Ederson similar in a league where Kane and Haaland are prolific.

[CanadaSaint]

3 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Young talent mixed with experience is the way to go no doubt, but keeper should always be one of the experienced ones. 

Can you suggest an "experienced" keeper who is anywhere close to Bazunu for the fundamental element of our (currently very successful) style of playing out from the back?

Sure, it was a big clanger and it could have cost us, but these things happen when the keeper's role is so pivotal in the team's set up.

You might want to stay close to a defibrillator while you're watching because, sooner or later, Bazunu will let one in over his head from forty yards. That's another risk we willingly and knowingly take with out style. The league table, and our unbeaten run, show that we gain far more than we lose from it.

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, CanadaSaint said:

Can you suggest an "experienced" keeper who is anywhere close to Bazunu for the fundamental element of our (currently very successful) style of playing out from the back?

Sure, it was a big clanger and it could have cost us, but these things happen when the keeper's role is so pivotal in the team's set up.

You might want to stay close to a defibrillator while you're watching because, sooner or later, Bazunu will let one in over his head from forty yards. That's another risk we willingly and knowingly take with out style. The league table, and our unbeaten run, show that we gain far more than we lose from it.

We never signed Bazunu with this style though...

[pingpong]

30 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Bazunu save percentage 65.1% in a league where Adam Armstrong is a prolific goalscorer.

Ederson similar in a league where Kane and Haaland are prolific.

Ederson plays for the same side as Haaland, and kane plays in the bundesliga. Apart from that, good point.

 

 

[Whitey Grandad]

3 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

That pass wasn't across the goal area, it was directly to the keeper. 

And if we're going to avoid passing it around the box because of the dangers that presents well then that makes a fucking mockery of carrying on with a keeper who is weak at the traditional basics of keeping but good with his feet.

I watched the replay again.

Don’t be such a pedant. 

[Oldandtired]

Ok, question to those waiting to pounce on GB. Name one keeper, now and in the past, average or great,who hasn't made the occasional howler. I'll wait....

 

 

Waiting....

 

 

 

 

 

No,I thought not.

[Bad Wolf]

45 minutes ago, Oldandtired said:

Ok, question to those waiting to pounce on GB. Name one keeper, now and in the past, average or great,who hasn't made the occasional howler. I'll wait....

 

 

Waiting....

 

 

 

 

 

No,I thought not.

Tommy Forecast.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

4 hours ago, Oldandtired said:

Ok, question to those waiting to pounce on GB. Name one keeper, now and in the past, average or great,who hasn't made the occasional howler. I'll wait....

 

 

Waiting....

 

 

 

 

 

No,I thought not.

Occasional is one or twice a season, not one or twice every 5 or 6 games

[Lighthouse]

6 hours ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

Occasional is one or twice a season, not one or twice every 5 or 6 games

He does no such thing, the Plymouth goal was the first goal of the season you can actually call a 'howler'. He's conceded about half a dosen he could have done better with, the same as any other keeper at this level and most in the league above.

[Galway saint]

31 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

He does no such thing, the Plymouth goal was the first goal of the season you can actually call a 'howler'. He's conceded about half a dosen he could have done better with, the same as any other keeper at this level and most in the league above.

i can’t be bothered to go back through them all but the goal conceded against watford was clearly a ‘howler’ 

[Fan The Flames]

18 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

If he wants passes like that then he’s an idiot. There’s a very old maxim that goes “never pass across your own goal area”

That maxim applies to 14 year old and below football. Not mens professional football.

[BARCELONASAINT]

we could all sit here behind our laptops being negative Nancy's and finding fault behind every player we have in our squad, it's so much easier to be negative about things than to be positive.

There are those on here that cannot wait for Baz to make a mistake and then come on here and lambast the lad and make him last seasons, this seasons and seasons to come why we didn't or won't achieve this or that and then there are those....

That take a much more level headed approach and accept we have have one of the youngest goalkeepers who is learning his trade, who will make mistakes along the way, is only human like the rest of us, who is excellent in the way we play, who has clearly got better and better as the season has been progressing and has a bright future ahead of himself.

Get behind the lad and if you have to be a negative Nancy at least try being balanced and recognise the things he does extremely well

[Fan The Flames]

Double post.

Edited 1 January, 2024 by Fan The Flames

[Charlie Wayman]

17 minutes ago, Galway saint said:

i can’t be bothered to go back through them all but the goal conceded against watford was clearly a ‘howler’ 

You really are a miserable moaning sod. Go and support somebody else and leave Baz alone.

[Galway saint]

14 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

You really are a miserable moaning sod. Go and support somebody else and leave Baz alone.

don’t be pathetic 

[Lord Duckhunter]

41 minutes ago, Galway saint said:

i can’t be bothered to go back through them all but the goal conceded against watford was clearly a ‘howler’ 

At the end of the day he’s an average championship keeper who is excellent with his feet. Personally, I’d prefer an excellent shot stopper who is average with his feet, as I think we’d have more points.

I don’t need stats or any other modern pony to form an opinion, I can see it with my own eyes. There’s too many goals against this season  that he could have done better with (and last season he was a fucking disaster), particularly with long range efforts. Maybe this can be coached out of him, but its a weakness known about since pre Saints days. As Watford showed us, he doesn’t seem to be getting any better with this yet. 

Edited 1 January, 2024 by Lord Duckhunter

[pimpin4rizeal]

On 31/12/2023 at 13:40, Saint_clark said:

I will admit and have in the past that I have no doubt Bazunu will be a top keeper, in fact I think he'll reach a level that we wouldn't be able to sign him if we hadn't signed him young. 

But once he gets to that point he'll be off to another side anyway, so why the hell should we spend years developing a keeper, putting up with poor performances and tons of mistakes for the first year or two at least, just to ship him off elsewhere for another club to reap the rewards once he actually reaches that level? 

And then probably start the process all over again with another young keeper who we need to accept will make mistakes consistently for 2-3 seasons.

Pretty much sums up how I feel.. if he reaches top level we lose him and it’s not like keepers go for huge money anyway .

its a bit of a flawed idea when in the meantime we have to suffer mistakes for him to learn his trade . 

Also not every young prospect keeper is gonna turn out to be the real deal either look st Angus Gunn before him as an example, 

Edited 3 January, 2024 by pimpin4rizeal

[Bad Wolf]

36 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

Pretty much sums up how I feel.. if he reaches top level we lose him and it’s not like keepers go for huge money anyway .

its a bit of a flawed idea when in the meantime we have to suffer mistakes for him to learn his trade . 

Also not every young prospect keeper is gonna turn out to be the real deal either look st Angus Gunn before him as an example, 

How many goals has he actually been responsible for this season though? Sunderland's third, Preston's second and MAYBE Rotherham's? I guess Watford if I am being super harsh but that is every bit Bednerak/THB's fault as well.

I feel that he gets the blame for letting goals in that hardly any keeper would have stopped.

[Bad Wolf]

I also think that modern keepers are judged by the standard or traits of keepers from years gone by. Out of all positions on the field (maybe apart from full back) the role of the keeper has probably changed most. The ability, strength and general practice of your average striker is totally different to how it was years ago. One being the whole "letting goals in at the near post" thing. Every keeper seems to do this now a days and every keeper seems to be ridiculed for it every time it happens. Is it possible that the ball and the person hitting it is now very different that it's now not possible to stop every near post shot?

There are probably things that modern day keepers can do (mainly distribution) that keepers of old would have totally struggled with.

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, Bad Wolf said:

 Out of all positions on the field (maybe apart from full back) the role of the keeper has probably changed most. The ability, strength and general practice of your average striker is totally different to how it was years ago. 

What a load of old pony. 
 

Apart from full back, the Keeper has changed the most, because strikers are totally different 😂. You’re all over the place….

[Bad Wolf]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

What a load of old pony. 
 

Apart from full back, the Keeper has changed the most, because strikers are totally different 😂. You’re all over the place….

A keeper's role has changed

A striker's attributes has changed

[Weston Super Saint]

23 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

A keeper's role has changed

A striker's attributes has changed

How have they changed?

The goal is still the same and the striker has to get the round thing in it. It doesn't seem that different to 1920.

[Bad Wolf]

2 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

How have they changed?

The goal is still the same and the striker has to get the round thing in it. It doesn't seem that different to 1920.

Strikers don't just stand around at the far post waiting for a cross to come in so they can tap in anymore. They're also more aware of the overlap and so their hold up play is more prominent. Now a days, a striker can score 10 goals in a season and still have a great season.

[egg]

26 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

A keeper's role has changed

A striker's attributes has changed

Granted, a keeper's role is different if the team play with the keeper as a kind of sweeper or ball player, but fundamentally they still do what they always have.

You've lost me on strikers being different though. 

[Patches O Houlihan]

39 minutes ago, egg said:

Granted, a keeper's role is different if the team play with the keeper as a kind of sweeper or ball player, but fundamentally they still do what they always have.

You've lost me on strikers being different though. 

The ball design, and the design of the boots has changed though. 

Think of the swerve that JWP could create - Bobby Charlton was not doing that. Material science and technique improvements.

You could also argue that improvements in nutrition, fitness and coaching mean the ball is being hit harder/faster/with less back lift - requiring quicker reflexes. 

Now I’m prepared to agree that maybe a few stand out players historically were delivering similar, but I would say the median top league striker is a far more potent goal scorer now than thirty years ago, never mind sixty years ago. 

 

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, Bad Wolf said:

Strikers don't just stand around at the far post waiting for a cross to come in so they can tap in anymore. They're also more aware of the overlap and so their hold up play is more prominent. Now a days, a striker can score 10 goals in a season and still have a great season.

When did it change? I had a Quick Look at a striker from the 60s and he didn’t seem to stand around waiting for tap ins. Was it before that as a good striker from 60 years ago seems to be much like a good striker from today 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/52217646
 

[Patches O Houlihan]

55 minutes ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

The ball design, and the design of the boots has changed though. 

Think of the swerve that JWP could create - Bobby Charlton was not doing that. Material science and technique improvements.

You could also argue that improvements in nutrition, fitness and coaching mean the ball is being hit harder/faster/with less back lift - requiring quicker reflexes. 

Now I’m prepared to agree that maybe a few stand out players historically were delivering similar, but I would say the median top league striker is a far more potent goal scorer now than thirty years ago, never mind sixty years ago. 

 

https://www.myfootballfacts.com/premier-league/all-time-premier-league/premier_league_goal_statistics/
 

PL stats - because the game didn’t exist before 1992 😉

Early mid nineties ~2.6 goals/game average across the season. 

Last few years ~2.8 goals/game. That’s 7% more goals scored. 

I was expecting to prove myself wrong!