Gavin Bazunu

[Weston Super Saint]

30 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

No

There you go again, going on about statistics. You can go and worship at the altar that is football statistics if you wish, but they have nothing to do with anything that ever happens in real life. You’ll find that chicken entrails or tea leaves will not be any worse.

Are you sure?

Some 'statistics' for you :

Played 11

won 5

scored 17

Let in 21

Points 17

10th in the League

 

They seem pretty poignant 'statistics' to me and outline what has happened in real life.

Unless you've fallen for the club's bollox about not paying any attention to the table, in which case, why is anyone here??!!??

[IFHP]

30 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

You cannot possibly compare last season with this. We’re now in a different league, don’t you know.

Very true he was shit last season and he is no better this . 
 

If he played in goal for Rotherham last week we would have won as he wouldn’t have made the saves the Rotherham goalie did .

[Whitey Grandad]

5 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Are you sure?

Some 'statistics' for you :

Played 11

won 5

scored 17

Let in 21

Points 17

10th in the League

 

They seem pretty poignant 'statistics' to me and outline what has happened in real life.

Unless you've fallen for the club's bollox about not paying any attention to the table, in which case, why is anyone here??!!??

Those aren’t statistics.

[Whitey Grandad]

5 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

What the hell else do you want to judge him on? 

You're now dismissing the fact that he lets in more shots than other keepers as useless statistics...you're off the deep end mate. 

Eh? That’s not a ‘fact’

[The Kraken]

15 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Those aren’t statistics.

Of course they are 🤣 

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Those aren’t statistics.

What on earth are they then?

[Miltonaggro]

29 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

What on earth are they then?

Hurty words / scar tissue? 

[stknowle]

On 13/10/2023 at 00:14, St. Ciervo said:

I guess thats the main point in the rest of my post, Clark. Unless in a cup tie, he will not be asked to do what that goalie did to us. Baz will instead be tasked with ball movement and handling high-percentage, odd-man rushes. This is not an endearing system for a keeper. We can agree on a single wish that our younger keeper wasnt in net each game because it is going to crush his confidence in himself, and a goalie needs to be full of hot air. I am afraid for his development with our club because he is going to look like a sieve on many occasions and our fanbase will tear into him.  

There is no pressure on a goalie going into a game against us in this league. If they get lit up, it was expected. If they stand on their head, they look like a god. For Baz, his best hope is a game where he stopped the 2 shots he was "expected to make," otherwise he's trashed. Its a shitty place to be. 

...

 

Edited 14 October, 2023 by stknowle
CBA

[Whitey Grandad]

10 hours ago, The Kraken said:

Of course they are 🤣 

 

9 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

What on earth are they then?

Those are actual results, facts if you like.

Statistics are something completely different. Statistics are open to interpretation, more properly called inferential statistics. Numbers in themselves are ok. It’s when someone tries to read something beyond their intrinsic data that they will go wrong. 
 

Anything such as shots on target, expected goals, saves ratio, are inherently random and subjective. They are collected for the purposes of betting and as such they have to be random or the betting companies would lose money through them.

[Saint_clark]

11 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Eh? That’s not a ‘fact’

It literally is 😂🤦🏼‍♂️ he saves a lower percentage of shots than any other keeper in the league. That means he lets in more shots than any other keeper. 

Ergo, if every keeper in the league faced 100 shots on target, he would concede the most out of that 100. 

[saintscottofthenortham]

20 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

What the hell else do you want to judge him on? 

You're now dismissing the fact that he lets in more shots than other keepers as useless statistics...you're off the deep end mate. 

Well, Grandad hasn't changed his tune from last year I see.

I remain convinced it is in fact Bazunu's grandad. It's the only logical explanation.

[Weston Super Saint]

9 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

 

 

Anything such as shots on target, expected goals, saves ratio, are inherently random and subjective. .

Shots on target are factual - the shot is either on target or it isn't.

Saves ratio is also factual - the shot was either saved or it wasn't.

I agree that xG is subjective.

[Lighthouse]

8 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

It literally is 😂🤦🏼‍♂️ he saves a lower percentage of shots than any other keeper in the league. That means he lets in more shots than any other keeper. 

Ergo, if every keeper in the league faced 100 shots on target, he would concede the most out of that 100. 

No, he saved the lowest percentage of shots he has faced, in a very short sample of games. Not all shots are the same, you can't extrapolate that to making sweeping statements about everyone facing 100 shots.

[Whitey Grandad]

8 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

It literally is 😂🤦🏼‍♂️ he saves a lower percentage of shots than any other keeper in the league. That means he lets in more shots than any other keeper. 

Ergo, if every keeper in the league faced 100 shots on target, he would concede the most out of that 100. 

No. It doesn’t mean that at all and this is where you have gone wrong. In terms of goals conceded Peter Shilton has let in more.

 

[Whitey Grandad]

26 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Shots on target are factual - the shot is either on target or it isn't.

Saves ratio is also factual - the shot was either saved or it wasn't.

I agree that xG is subjective.

No they are not. They are interpretive. I’ve posted before about how these figures are achieved. They are produced for the Far Eastern betting market yet somehow some people seem to think that they are definitive. Try looking up their definition especially about how many shots are excluded.

As a further point, there was an instance in a recent home game where an opponent was clear through on goal and Bazunu came out to the edge of his area to close down the angles. The opponent’s shot went wide of goal and Bazunu never touched the ball. Yet he had prevented a goal. Where does that figure in any ‘statistics’?

[AlexLaw76]

11 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

No they are not. They are interpretive. I’ve posted before about how these figures are achieved. They are produced for the Far Eastern betting market yet somehow some people seem to think that they are definitive. Try looking up their definition especially about how many shots are excluded.

As a further point, there was an instance in a recent home game where an opponent was clear through on goal and Bazunu came out to the edge of his area to close down the angles. The opponent’s shot went wide of goal and Bazunu never touched the ball. Yet he had prevented a goal. Where does that figure in any ‘statistics’?

you do come out with strange comments on this, and refereeing decisions like that at Stoke.

[Lord Duckhunter]

40 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

No. It doesn’t mean that at all and this is where you have gone wrong. In terms of goals conceded Peter Shilton has let in more.

 

Not in the last 2 seasons he fucking hasn’t 

[Weston Super Saint]

10 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

 

Those are actual results, facts if you like.

Statistics are something completely different. Statistics are open to interpretation, more properly called inferential statistics. Numbers in themselves are ok. It’s when someone tries to read something beyond their intrinsic data that they will go wrong. 
 

Anything such as shots on target, expected goals, saves ratio, are inherently random and subjective. They are collected for the purposes of betting and as such they have to be random or the betting companies would lose money through them.

Definition of statistics :

1 : a branch of mathematics dealing with the collection, analysis, interpretation, and presentation of masses of numerical data

2 : a collection of quantitative data

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/statistics#:~:text=1,a collection of quantitative data

The league table is a collection of numerical data, presented for analysis.

Ergo, the league table is literally the definition of statistics....

 

[Charlie Wayman]

35 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Not in the last 2 seasons he fucking hasn’t 

Is he still alive then?

Edited 14 October, 2023 by Charlie Wayman

[Miltonaggro]

35 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Not in the last 2 seasons he fucking hasn’t 

Or any two seasons in his career for that matter.

 

[Bad Wolf]

On 12/10/2023 at 13:46, Jimbo said:

Depends on your view I guess.

First goal vs Sunderland for example - a classic leap over the ball when it goes right next to him.

And his positioning vs Rotherham...beyond words.

Am sure there were others, but there's so many goals going in these days they all blur into one.

Where was he supposed to be? If he'd been on his goal line and had a shot blasted to his right and in, people would be saying he should have been further out. But even if that was his fault, surely that's the kind of thing that comes with experience and absolutely no basis for claiming that he'll never come good.

[Saint_clark]

2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

No. It doesn’t mean that at all and this is where you have gone wrong. In terms of goals conceded Peter Shilton has let in more.

 

With that i'm done, that's the most ridiculous argument i've seen. 

[The Kraken]

3 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

With that i'm done, that's the most ridiculous argument i've seen. 

Most of the time I think Gramps is just on the wum. Whatever, his responses do make me laugh at their sheer absurdity.

 

Edited 14 October, 2023 by The Kraken

[VectisSaint]

5 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

No. It doesn’t mean that at all and this is where you have gone wrong. In terms of goals conceded Peter Shilton has let in more.

 

More to the point, Viktor Johansson has let in more than Bazunu this season in the Championship.

[VectisSaint]

14 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

It literally is 😂🤦🏼‍♂️ he saves a lower percentage of shots than any other keeper in the league. That means he lets in more shots than any other keeper. 

Ergo, if every keeper in the league faced 100 shots on target, he would concede the most out of that 100. 

It doesn't mean that at all. It means he concedes a higher percentage of shots on target than other keepers. Viktor Johansson has let in more goals than Bazunu.

[Saint_clark]

54 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

It doesn't mean that at all. It means he concedes a higher percentage of shots on target than other keepers. Viktor Johansson has let in more goals than Bazunu.

But he's faced 15 shots more than Bazunu. If he'd faced the same amount of shots as Bazunu he'd have conceded 5 less than him with his current save rate. 

Edited 14 October, 2023 by Saint_clark

[AlexLaw76]

10 hours ago, VectisSaint said:

More to the point, Viktor Johansson has let in more than Bazunu this season in the Championship.

And is a better keeper

[stevy777_x]

The fact that we are still having debates on Bazunu in the Championship says it all for me.

In the PL, people were saying you ll see he ll be better in the champ as it is more his level.

The only thing that has got better this season is his distribution, which is actually very good now. But apart from that i still the same flows i saw in the PL as he doesn t do the basics right

[badgerx16]

Why waste so much time and effort arguing on this thread ? Bazunu is our starting keeper for the season and no amount of words on here will change that.

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

Why waste so much time and effort arguing on this thread ? Bazunu is our starting keeper for the season and no amount of words on here will change that.

Why are you wasting so much time & effort posting on the Isreal thread. No amount of words on here will change situation in Gaza. Actually, why bothering posting at all, might as well close the site down as it won’t change anything. 

[badgerx16]

19 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Why are you wasting so much time & effort posting on the Isreal thread.

Because I have nothing else that will fill the dark, cold, lonely days of my pitiful existence,

What is your excuse ?

[HKsaint]

Bazunu will bring us to the level where he belongs to. 

[badgerx16]

2 minutes ago, HKsaint said:

Bazunu will bring us to the level where he belongs to. 

In which case RM is the perfect manager.

[stevy777_x]

9 hours ago, stevy777_x said:

The fact that we are still having debates on Bazunu in the Championship says it all for me.

In the PL, people were saying you ll see he ll be better in the champ as it is more his level.

The only thing that has got better this season is his distribution, which is actually very good now. But apart from that i still the same flows i saw in the PL as he doesn t do the basics right

On another note, Liz has 5 clean sheets in 8 games and saved a penalty in the last game.

[Stu Man Do]

2 hours ago, stevy777_x said:

On another note, Liz has 5 clean sheets in 8 games and saved a penalty in the last game.

In the Turkish second division though. I’m a bit dubious about the quality of attacker in that league!
 

can’t say many people would be happy with Lis as first choice. Another totally barmy signing.

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, Stu Man Do said:

In the Turkish second division though. I’m a bit dubious about the quality of attacker in that league!
 

can’t say many people would be happy with Lis as first choice. Another totally barmy signing.

Lis was never a signing for us though, he was bought as a SR player and we are the vehicle for his movement around their other clubs. We will see more of this, signing of players who aren't ever going to play for us, but move out on loan to other SR clubs for their entire career. Not totally onboard wit it, but it's how these multi club models work.

[CB Fry]

9 hours ago, Stu Man Do said:

can’t say many people would be happy with Lis as first choice. Another totally barmy signing.

Player signed for Turkish second division side keeps lots of clean sheets. What's "totally barmy" about that? Sounds like a good signing to me.

[VectisSaint]

11 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

Lis was never a signing for us though, he was bought as a SR player and we are the vehicle for his movement around their other clubs. We will see more of this, signing of players who aren't ever going to play for us, but move out on loan to other SR clubs for their entire career. Not totally onboard wit it, but it's how these multi club models work.

So why sign him for Saints in the first place, why not sign him for the Turkish club directly or one of the other clubs? It doesn't really make any sense.

[suewhistle]

Interesting article about sweeper-keepers.. Judging by the comments BTL a lot of fans worry about faffing around at the back and passing to a well marked defender:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/oct/16/premier-league-sweeper-keeper-onana-ederson

 

 

[Charlie Wayman]

On 15/10/2023 at 13:48, HKsaint said:

Bazunu will bring us to the level where he belongs to. 

Bazanu bashing has gone on long enough, we all know who on here rates him and those  who hold him in contempt so why go around in circles saying the same old things in a dozen different ways. Balls do not end up in the back of our net solely because of the goalkeeper.

[HKsaint]

2 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Bazanu bashing has gone on long enough, we all know who on here rates him and those  who hold him in contempt so why go around in circles saying the same old things in a dozen different ways. Balls do not end up in the back of our net solely because of the goalkeeper.

You are correct. Ireland’s 4-1 win over Gibraltar proves it.

Edited 17 October, 2023 by HKsaint

[pimpin4rizeal]

Kinda made this point before, but I just think the way we seem to be persisting with this young goalkeeper route is a waste of time..

the goalkeeper market is not that expensive . We could have picked up a decent ready to go keeper instead .. also the chances of us getting huge money/profits on the keeper isn’t that great even if he did turn out good ..

don’t mean to be harsh but he was a liability last season and doesn’t seem to be a lot better this,, the team suffers giving him time to learn the ropes and if he does end up reaching the potential most of us are not even seeing he will probably fuck off anyway  is it worth it ?

[Holmes_and_Watson]

When he goes for 30 million, we'll be sorry. Mainly as we'll be in the national conference by then. 🙂

If anything, the arrival of Wilcox, and another Man City link, has solidified Baz's place with the club. He's seen as key to our philosophy of having a goalkeeper who is very comfortable at the back, and who plays a key role in maintaining our possession game, with his distribution.

When he was still getting a game last season, I was wondering if we had to play him, as we had an agreement with City to develop a goalkeeper that suited what they wanted, without having to go through the pain as we have.

Oddly, just as his distribution was looking even better, Martin changed it a bit. Since I've not seen too much about his positioning against Rotherham, he's not done badly of late. Noted that those couple of games haven't had many shots on his weaker side.

[SambaMaverick]

12 hours ago, HKsaint said:

You are correct. Ireland’s 4-1 win over Gibraltar proves it.

I mean, Gibraltar didn't actually have a shot on target. Dunno if even Bazunu could manage to let one in.

 

As a wider point, Bazunu isn't high on my shit list so far this season.

Manning has cost us more goals/points, as has Holgate - and definitely RM.

[Saint_clark]

18 hours ago, HKsaint said:

You are correct. Ireland’s 4-1 win over Gibraltar proves it.

I....really don't get what point you're trying to make with that. 

[Jimbo]

On 14/10/2023 at 18:36, Bad Wolf said:

Where was he supposed to be? If he'd been on his goal line and had a shot blasted to his right and in, people would be saying he should have been further out. But even if that was his fault, surely that's the kind of thing that comes with experience and absolutely no basis for claiming that he'll never come good.

When the ball is knocked down at the edge of the penalty area from a long ball? Ideally not 12 yards off his line in no-mans land, backpedaling, causing him to jump off-balance...

He's just not good enough in my view. Whether he will in the future is irrelevant, he is not good enough to start in the present.

[BARCELONASAINT]

9 hours ago, Jimbo said:

When the ball is knocked down at the edge of the penalty area from a long ball? Ideally not 12 yards off his line in no-mans land, backpedaling, causing him to jump off-balance...

He's just not good enough in my view. Whether he will in the future is irrelevant, he is not good enough to start in the present.

Absolute bloody tosh, the amount of goalkeeper critics on here that do not have a bloody clue about goalkeeping but think they are experts is ridiculous. Saints threw the kid into the lions den last year and i'm surprised by his mental strength that he has come through it.

There is barely a goal this season that we have conceded that can be levelled against him. The prejudice of what happened last season has rolled over into this season for too many fans that need to move on from last season. This is a new season and Baz has done very little wrong so far. He is more than adequate to be our number one keeper at this level. 

[Bad Wolf]

9 hours ago, Jimbo said:

When the ball is knocked down at the edge of the penalty area from a long ball? Ideally not 12 yards off his line in no-mans land, backpedaling, causing him to jump off-balance...

He's just not good enough in my view. Whether he will in the future is irrelevant, he is not good enough to start in the present.

I disagree with you on the final sentence but I do appreciate that sentiment. My defences of him aren't really aimed at people who simply don't think he's good enough now. Like I said, I simply respectfully disagree with that. What my gripe is, is the comments such as "He'll never be good enough" etc. Which is just just baffling.

[Bad Wolf]

27 minutes ago, BARCELONASAINT said:

Absolute bloody tosh, the amount of goalkeeper critics on here that do not have a bloody clue about goalkeeping but think they are experts is ridiculous. Saints threw the kid into the lions den last year and i'm surprised by his mental strength that he has come through it.

There is barely a goal this season that we have conceded that can be levelled against him. The prejudice of what happened last season has rolled over into this season for too many fans that need to move on from last season. This is a new season and Baz has done very little wrong so far. He is more than adequate to be our number one keeper at this level. 

Sunderland's 3rd is about it.

And absolutely. The way he's been treated by our fans is nothing short of disgusting. That's not people who simply don't rate him - I mean the people who have made personal comments that if read, would possibly have a negative affect on someone's mental health. You just know it's the same people who were whinging about Tino "owing the club loyalty" or some shit.

[Lord Duckhunter]

12 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

Sunderland's 3rd is about it.

And absolutely. The way he's been treated by our fans is nothing short of disgusting. That's not people who simply don't rate him - I mean the people who have made personal comments that if read, would possibly have a negative affect on someone's mental health. You just know it's the same people who were whinging about Tino "owing the club loyalty" or some shit.

What a load of old pony.