Gavin Bazunu

[Galway saint]

8 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

Don’t really agree on this he’s like a hologram and rarely makes saves .. and also has a crappy habit that when does make stops he parries the ball out to opposing player 

 

i agree and that’s what i am saying - thought that was clear but perhaps not 

[St. Ciervo]

4 hours ago, Galway saint said:

even if he did make absolute gaffs everyone would forgive him if he made some great saves as all fans can forgive their keeper the odd howler so long as he’s making great saves and winning points.

This is categorically false. I was a hockey goaltender in major juniors across the pond... I was guilty of exactly what you said here. I would make an outstanding save and then let a howler in later on. Because of that, you will never know or recognize my name. You must be consistent and make the obvious saves; flashy saves are a distant second. A brutal goal against deflates a team and steamrolls any momentum. 

Also, baz can get a clean sheet and get 0 love on here. No one, especially Clark, will give him a tip of the cap at this point. So dont tell me Clark and friends will be on here 30 seconds after a howler to say it was "okay." 

Baz will not be asked to stand on his head with our quality of team this year. He will, however, be tasked with some quick counters after turnovers in difficult spots. I would argue that any goalie in this system is going to be hung out to dry. 

Edited 11 October, 2023 by St. Ciervo
Adding on...

[Miltonaggro]

11 hours ago, Galway saint said:

we’ve been over all this countless times but Bazanu doesn’t make that many absolute howlers. his goals conceded tend to be more in the camp of ‘could have done better’ or ‘should have saved that’ or ‘i’d have expected him to save that one’.

even if he did make absolute gaffs everyone would forgive him if he made some great saves as all fans can forgive their keeper the odd howler so long as he’s making great saves and winning points.

the rotherham keeper on saturday was a case in point as what a difference a keeper can make to the outcome of a match.

i don’t think Bazanu has ever done that but equally i don’t think he’s lost us any points this season - it’s just that he’s not altered the course of a game either and he’s never really been that sort of keeper and I don’t think he ever will. he’s a nothing sort of keeper.

however he’s obviously not going anywhere any time soon

I think that this is close to it in terms of expectation for many. We’ve had a few keepers who could look absolutely world class followed by brain fart, Ivan Katalinic had that and dropped by McMenemy but remained a fan favourite, Burridge too. I think our best keeper since Neimi was Artur Boruc, a complete eccentric and capable of serious keystone cops - remember Arsenal when is managed a fuck up and world class performance in the same game - the Artur show! In many ways Boruc was the polar opposite of Bazunu, picked up easily for relative peanuts, genuinely physically imposing, brave and commanding in the 18 yard box, aggressive in organisation and capable shot stopper. In the minus column mad as a box of frogs and low resale value, but who would you prefer in goal now? Considering the shithouse Vardy through on a one on one who would he prefer? 

[Saint_clark]

8 hours ago, St. Ciervo said:

This is categorically false. I was a hockey goaltender in major juniors across the pond... I was guilty of exactly what you said here. I would make an outstanding save and then let a howler in later on. Because of that, you will never know or recognize my name. You must be consistent and make the obvious saves; flashy saves are a distant second. A brutal goal against deflates a team and steamrolls any momentum. 

Also, baz can get a clean sheet and get 0 love on here. No one, especially Clark, will give him a tip of the cap at this point. So dont tell me Clark and friends will be on here 30 seconds after a howler to say it was "okay." 

Baz will not be asked to stand on his head with our quality of team this year. He will, however, be tasked with some quick counters after turnovers in difficult spots. I would argue that any goalie in this system is going to be hung out to dry. 

Don't tell me what I will and won't do. I have praised him in the past, he put together a few decent performances and I said on here that I hoped he'd turned the corner - he hadn't. The only clean sheet he's kept so far this season the opposition only had two shots on target and they were both saves he would be expected to make. Not a performance that's going to change my opinion. 

 

[sambosa75]

17 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

Seriously? His distribution has been outstanding this season and realistically he's been responsible for one goal - Sunderland's third.

Nothing about his game has been outstanding.  Has his distribution been adequate?  Yes.  But outstanding?  He's not exactly spraying 70 yard cross-field balls onto a sixpence is he?  

 

[Jimbo]

18 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

Seriously? His distribution has been outstanding this season and realistically he's been responsible for one goal - Sunderland's third.

Depends on your view I guess.

First goal vs Sunderland for example - a classic leap over the ball when it goes right next to him.

And his positioning vs Rotherham...beyond words.

Am sure there were others, but there's so many goals going in these days they all blur into one.

[VectisSaint]

55 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

 

Am sure there were others, but there's so many goals going in these days they all blur into one.

2 in our last 3 games, blurring into one 🤔

[Jimbo]

47 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

2 in our last 3 games, blurring into one 🤔

touche. 

21 in 11, 2nd worst in the championship.

[St. Ciervo]

15 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

The only clean sheet he's kept so far this season the opposition only had two shots on target and they were both saves he would be expected to make. Not a performance that's going to change my opinion. 

 

I guess thats the main point in the rest of my post, Clark. Unless in a cup tie, he will not be asked to do what that goalie did to us. Baz will instead be tasked with ball movement and handling high-percentage, odd-man rushes. This is not an endearing system for a keeper. We can agree on a single wish that our younger keeper wasnt in net each game because it is going to crush his confidence in himself, and a goalie needs to be full of hot air. I am afraid for his development with our club because he is going to look like a sieve on many occasions and our fanbase will tear into him.  

There is no pressure on a goalie going into a game against us in this league. If they get lit up, it was expected. If they stand on their head, they look like a god. For Baz, his best hope is a game where he stopped the 2 shots he was "expected to make," otherwise he's trashed. Its a shitty place to be. 

Edited 12 October, 2023 by St. Ciervo
Changed wording to be less aggro on a fellow fan... Friendly Fire and all.

[Saint_clark]

5 hours ago, St. Ciervo said:

I guess thats the main point in the rest of my post, Clark. Unless in a cup tie, he will not be asked to do what that goalie did to us. Baz will instead be tasked with ball movement and handling high-percentage, odd-man rushes. This is not an endearing system for a keeper. We can agree on a single wish that our younger keeper wasnt in net each game because it is going to crush his confidence in himself, and a goalie needs to be full of hot air. I am afraid for his development with our club because he is going to look like a sieve on many occasions and our fanbase will tear into him.  

There is no pressure on a goalie going into a game against us in this league. If they get lit up, it was expected. If they stand on their head, they look like a god. For Baz, his best hope is a game where he stopped the 2 shots he was "expected to make," otherwise he's trashed. Its a shitty place to be. 

None of what you said explains why he lets in so many shots that most other keepers are able to save. 

I also have no idea what "high percentage odd-man rushes" means. Do you mean coming off his line to collect through balls? A lot of keepers do that. All this nonsense about him sweeping up and being great at distributing from the back, neither of those attributes are so much better than other keepers that it's worth putting up with his terrible inability to get to bog standard shots over and over again. 

City put up with Edersen not being a fantastic shot stopping because 1. The defence is able to limit the opposition chances massively and 2. He is genuinely fantastic at every other aspect of a goalkeepers game. 

Bazunu is shit at shot stopping and average at everything else. 

[Whitey Grandad]

3 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

None of what you said explains why he lets in so many shots that most other keepers are able to save. 

I also have no idea what "high percentage odd-man rushes" means. Do you mean coming off his line to collect through balls? A lot of keepers do that. All this nonsense about him sweeping up and being great at distributing from the back, neither of those attributes are so much better than other keepers that it's worth putting up with his terrible inability to get to bog standard shots over and over again. 

City put up with Edersen not being a fantastic shot stopping because 1. The defence is able to limit the opposition chances massively and 2. He is genuinely fantastic at every other aspect of a goalkeepers game. 

Bazunu is shit at shot stopping and average at everything else. 

That’s simply not true. It’s all in your distorted prejudice.

[VectisSaint]

17 hours ago, Jimbo said:

touche. 

21 in 11, 2nd worst in the championship.

And the worst in the Championship, the Rotherham keeper, Johansson, who people on here have been touting as a good replacement.

You implied that there were a lot of goals going in recently, which is demonstrably untrue. Yes there were a lot in the first few games, but since Leicester, more than one (2) has been conceded once, 5 goals conceded in 5 games. Strangely this coincides with the defence being more settled and using proper CBs (Bednarek/THB). I'm not defending Bazunu particularly, he is not showing signs of being a top class keeper, but some of the hysteria on here and elsewhere is hugely misplaced, especially of late. Conceding a goal a game is not a disaster, and wouldn't be a problem if our forwards could score regularly, scoring just once against the worst keeper in the league (by goals conceded) was ridiculous.

[AlexLaw76]

51 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

And the worst in the Championship, the Rotherham keeper, Johansson, who people on here have been touting as a good replacement.

You implied that there were a lot of goals going in recently, which is demonstrably untrue. Yes there were a lot in the first few games, but since Leicester, more than one (2) has been conceded once, 5 goals conceded in 5 games. Strangely this coincides with the defence being more settled and using proper CBs (Bednarek/THB). I'm not defending Bazunu particularly, he is not showing signs of being a top class keeper, but some of the hysteria on here and elsewhere is hugely misplaced, especially of late. Conceding a goal a game is not a disaster, and wouldn't be a problem if our forwards could score regularly, scoring just once against the worst keeper in the league (by goals conceded) was ridiculous.

He aint the worst keeper in the championship. you know this....

Edited 13 October, 2023 by AlexLaw76

[Saint_clark]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

That’s simply not true. It’s all in your distorted prejudice.

It's proven by the fact that he saves the least amount of shots in the league. 

That means that other keepers are saving more than him. 

That means that shots he is letting in, other keepers are saving. 

Unless you're still going to try and tell us that he is the unluckiest keeper on earth and the majority of shots he faces are world class impossible-to-save ones? 

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

 

Unless you're still going to try and tell us that he is the unluckiest keeper on earth and the majority of shots he faces are world class impossible-to-save ones? 

That’s exactly what it is. Apart from one against Sunderland, no keeper alive would have saved any other the others.

He hasn’t got foam wrists either, every shot he faces is a Peter Lorimer cannonball effort & the miracle is that he gets his hand to them.

His positioning is also first class, the issue isnt him,  it’s the fucking groundsman. He puts the goal in the wrong place. 

[Jimbo]

3 hours ago, VectisSaint said:

And the worst in the Championship, the Rotherham keeper, Johansson, who people on here have been touting as a good replacement.

You implied that there were a lot of goals going in recently, which is demonstrably untrue. Yes there were a lot in the first few games, but since Leicester, more than one (2) has been conceded once, 5 goals conceded in 5 games. Strangely this coincides with the defence being more settled and using proper CBs (Bednarek/THB). I'm not defending Bazunu particularly, he is not showing signs of being a top class keeper, but some of the hysteria on here and elsewhere is hugely misplaced, especially of late. Conceding a goal a game is not a disaster, and wouldn't be a problem if our forwards could score regularly, scoring just once against the worst keeper in the league (by goals conceded) was ridiculous.

i think you are looking too recently at a few games.  My view of Bazunu is based on what we have season for more than a season. I still believe Bazunu is poor and a decent goalkeeper helps us win points.  We would have had all three vs Rotherham, for example, if Bazunu had better positional sense.

That doesn't absolve the atrocious finishing we have seen from the team over the last 2+years now. Equally true that we could and should have had a handful of goals vs Rotherham for example.

However, when it comes down to it, good teams tend to have a strong foundation at the back. Even if we had our defence sorted, I would not be confident of winning 1-0 with him in goal.

Just my opinion, of course.

[Whitey Grandad]

3 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

It's proven by the fact that he saves the least amount of shots in the league. 

That means that other keepers are saving more than him. 

That means that shots he is letting in, other keepers are saving. 

Unless you're still going to try and tell us that he is the unluckiest keeper on earth and the majority of shots he faces are world class impossible-to-save ones? 

No

There you go again, going on about statistics. You can go and worship at the altar that is football statistics if you wish, but they have nothing to do with anything that ever happens in real life. You’ll find that chicken entrails or tea leaves will not be any worse.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Jimbo said:

i think you are looking too recently at a few games.  My view of Bazunu is based on what we have season for more than a season. I still believe Bazunu is poor and a decent goalkeeper helps us win points.  We would have had all three vs Rotherham, for example, if Bazunu had better positional sense.

That doesn't absolve the atrocious finishing we have seen from the team over the last 2+years now. Equally true that we could and should have had a handful of goals vs Rotherham for example.

However, when it comes down to it, good teams tend to have a strong foundation at the back. Even if we had our defence sorted, I would not be confident of winning 1-0 with him in goal.

Just my opinion, of course.

You cannot possibly compare last season with this. We’re now in a different league, don’t you know.

[Saint_clark]

27 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

No

There you go again, going on about statistics. You can go and worship at the altar that is football statistics if you wish, but they have nothing to do with anything that ever happens in real life. You’ll find that chicken entrails or tea leaves will not be any worse.

What the hell else do you want to judge him on? 

You're now dismissing the fact that he lets in more shots than other keepers as useless statistics...you're off the deep end mate. 

[Weston Super Saint]

30 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

No

There you go again, going on about statistics. You can go and worship at the altar that is football statistics if you wish, but they have nothing to do with anything that ever happens in real life. You’ll find that chicken entrails or tea leaves will not be any worse.

Are you sure?

Some 'statistics' for you :

Played 11

won 5

scored 17

Let in 21

Points 17

10th in the League

 

They seem pretty poignant 'statistics' to me and outline what has happened in real life.

Unless you've fallen for the club's bollox about not paying any attention to the table, in which case, why is anyone here??!!??

[IFHP]

30 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

You cannot possibly compare last season with this. We’re now in a different league, don’t you know.

Very true he was shit last season and he is no better this . 
 

If he played in goal for Rotherham last week we would have won as he wouldn’t have made the saves the Rotherham goalie did .

[Whitey Grandad]

5 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Are you sure?

Some 'statistics' for you :

Played 11

won 5

scored 17

Let in 21

Points 17

10th in the League

 

They seem pretty poignant 'statistics' to me and outline what has happened in real life.

Unless you've fallen for the club's bollox about not paying any attention to the table, in which case, why is anyone here??!!??

Those aren’t statistics.

[Whitey Grandad]

5 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

What the hell else do you want to judge him on? 

You're now dismissing the fact that he lets in more shots than other keepers as useless statistics...you're off the deep end mate. 

Eh? That’s not a ‘fact’

[The Kraken]

15 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Those aren’t statistics.

Of course they are 🤣 

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Those aren’t statistics.

What on earth are they then?

[Miltonaggro]

29 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

What on earth are they then?

Hurty words / scar tissue? 

[stknowle]

On 13/10/2023 at 00:14, St. Ciervo said:

I guess thats the main point in the rest of my post, Clark. Unless in a cup tie, he will not be asked to do what that goalie did to us. Baz will instead be tasked with ball movement and handling high-percentage, odd-man rushes. This is not an endearing system for a keeper. We can agree on a single wish that our younger keeper wasnt in net each game because it is going to crush his confidence in himself, and a goalie needs to be full of hot air. I am afraid for his development with our club because he is going to look like a sieve on many occasions and our fanbase will tear into him.  

There is no pressure on a goalie going into a game against us in this league. If they get lit up, it was expected. If they stand on their head, they look like a god. For Baz, his best hope is a game where he stopped the 2 shots he was "expected to make," otherwise he's trashed. Its a shitty place to be. 

...

 

Edited 14 October, 2023 by stknowle
CBA

[Whitey Grandad]

10 hours ago, The Kraken said:

Of course they are 🤣 

 

9 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

What on earth are they then?

Those are actual results, facts if you like.

Statistics are something completely different. Statistics are open to interpretation, more properly called inferential statistics. Numbers in themselves are ok. It’s when someone tries to read something beyond their intrinsic data that they will go wrong. 
 

Anything such as shots on target, expected goals, saves ratio, are inherently random and subjective. They are collected for the purposes of betting and as such they have to be random or the betting companies would lose money through them.

[Saint_clark]

11 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Eh? That’s not a ‘fact’

It literally is 😂🤦🏼‍♂️ he saves a lower percentage of shots than any other keeper in the league. That means he lets in more shots than any other keeper. 

Ergo, if every keeper in the league faced 100 shots on target, he would concede the most out of that 100. 

[saintscottofthenortham]

20 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

What the hell else do you want to judge him on? 

You're now dismissing the fact that he lets in more shots than other keepers as useless statistics...you're off the deep end mate. 

Well, Grandad hasn't changed his tune from last year I see.

I remain convinced it is in fact Bazunu's grandad. It's the only logical explanation.

[Weston Super Saint]

9 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

 

 

Anything such as shots on target, expected goals, saves ratio, are inherently random and subjective. .

Shots on target are factual - the shot is either on target or it isn't.

Saves ratio is also factual - the shot was either saved or it wasn't.

I agree that xG is subjective.

[Lighthouse]

8 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

It literally is 😂🤦🏼‍♂️ he saves a lower percentage of shots than any other keeper in the league. That means he lets in more shots than any other keeper. 

Ergo, if every keeper in the league faced 100 shots on target, he would concede the most out of that 100. 

No, he saved the lowest percentage of shots he has faced, in a very short sample of games. Not all shots are the same, you can't extrapolate that to making sweeping statements about everyone facing 100 shots.

[Whitey Grandad]

8 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

It literally is 😂🤦🏼‍♂️ he saves a lower percentage of shots than any other keeper in the league. That means he lets in more shots than any other keeper. 

Ergo, if every keeper in the league faced 100 shots on target, he would concede the most out of that 100. 

No. It doesn’t mean that at all and this is where you have gone wrong. In terms of goals conceded Peter Shilton has let in more.

 

[Whitey Grandad]

26 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Shots on target are factual - the shot is either on target or it isn't.

Saves ratio is also factual - the shot was either saved or it wasn't.

I agree that xG is subjective.

No they are not. They are interpretive. I’ve posted before about how these figures are achieved. They are produced for the Far Eastern betting market yet somehow some people seem to think that they are definitive. Try looking up their definition especially about how many shots are excluded.

As a further point, there was an instance in a recent home game where an opponent was clear through on goal and Bazunu came out to the edge of his area to close down the angles. The opponent’s shot went wide of goal and Bazunu never touched the ball. Yet he had prevented a goal. Where does that figure in any ‘statistics’?

[AlexLaw76]

11 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

No they are not. They are interpretive. I’ve posted before about how these figures are achieved. They are produced for the Far Eastern betting market yet somehow some people seem to think that they are definitive. Try looking up their definition especially about how many shots are excluded.

As a further point, there was an instance in a recent home game where an opponent was clear through on goal and Bazunu came out to the edge of his area to close down the angles. The opponent’s shot went wide of goal and Bazunu never touched the ball. Yet he had prevented a goal. Where does that figure in any ‘statistics’?

you do come out with strange comments on this, and refereeing decisions like that at Stoke.

[Lord Duckhunter]

40 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

No. It doesn’t mean that at all and this is where you have gone wrong. In terms of goals conceded Peter Shilton has let in more.

 

Not in the last 2 seasons he fucking hasn’t 

[Weston Super Saint]

10 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

 

Those are actual results, facts if you like.

Statistics are something completely different. Statistics are open to interpretation, more properly called inferential statistics. Numbers in themselves are ok. It’s when someone tries to read something beyond their intrinsic data that they will go wrong. 
 

Anything such as shots on target, expected goals, saves ratio, are inherently random and subjective. They are collected for the purposes of betting and as such they have to be random or the betting companies would lose money through them.

Definition of statistics :

1 : a branch of mathematics dealing with the collection, analysis, interpretation, and presentation of masses of numerical data

2 : a collection of quantitative data

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/statistics#:~:text=1,a collection of quantitative data

The league table is a collection of numerical data, presented for analysis.

Ergo, the league table is literally the definition of statistics....

 

[Charlie Wayman]

35 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Not in the last 2 seasons he fucking hasn’t 

Is he still alive then?

Edited 14 October, 2023 by Charlie Wayman

[Miltonaggro]

35 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Not in the last 2 seasons he fucking hasn’t 

Or any two seasons in his career for that matter.

 

[Bad Wolf]

On 12/10/2023 at 13:46, Jimbo said:

Depends on your view I guess.

First goal vs Sunderland for example - a classic leap over the ball when it goes right next to him.

And his positioning vs Rotherham...beyond words.

Am sure there were others, but there's so many goals going in these days they all blur into one.

Where was he supposed to be? If he'd been on his goal line and had a shot blasted to his right and in, people would be saying he should have been further out. But even if that was his fault, surely that's the kind of thing that comes with experience and absolutely no basis for claiming that he'll never come good.

[Saint_clark]

2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

No. It doesn’t mean that at all and this is where you have gone wrong. In terms of goals conceded Peter Shilton has let in more.

 

With that i'm done, that's the most ridiculous argument i've seen. 

[The Kraken]

3 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

With that i'm done, that's the most ridiculous argument i've seen. 

Most of the time I think Gramps is just on the wum. Whatever, his responses do make me laugh at their sheer absurdity.

 

Edited 14 October, 2023 by The Kraken

[VectisSaint]

5 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

No. It doesn’t mean that at all and this is where you have gone wrong. In terms of goals conceded Peter Shilton has let in more.

 

More to the point, Viktor Johansson has let in more than Bazunu this season in the Championship.

[VectisSaint]

14 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

It literally is 😂🤦🏼‍♂️ he saves a lower percentage of shots than any other keeper in the league. That means he lets in more shots than any other keeper. 

Ergo, if every keeper in the league faced 100 shots on target, he would concede the most out of that 100. 

It doesn't mean that at all. It means he concedes a higher percentage of shots on target than other keepers. Viktor Johansson has let in more goals than Bazunu.

[Saint_clark]

54 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

It doesn't mean that at all. It means he concedes a higher percentage of shots on target than other keepers. Viktor Johansson has let in more goals than Bazunu.

But he's faced 15 shots more than Bazunu. If he'd faced the same amount of shots as Bazunu he'd have conceded 5 less than him with his current save rate. 

Edited 14 October, 2023 by Saint_clark

[AlexLaw76]

10 hours ago, VectisSaint said:

More to the point, Viktor Johansson has let in more than Bazunu this season in the Championship.

And is a better keeper

[stevy777_x]

The fact that we are still having debates on Bazunu in the Championship says it all for me.

In the PL, people were saying you ll see he ll be better in the champ as it is more his level.

The only thing that has got better this season is his distribution, which is actually very good now. But apart from that i still the same flows i saw in the PL as he doesn t do the basics right

[badgerx16]

Why waste so much time and effort arguing on this thread ? Bazunu is our starting keeper for the season and no amount of words on here will change that.

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

Why waste so much time and effort arguing on this thread ? Bazunu is our starting keeper for the season and no amount of words on here will change that.

Why are you wasting so much time & effort posting on the Isreal thread. No amount of words on here will change situation in Gaza. Actually, why bothering posting at all, might as well close the site down as it won’t change anything. 

[badgerx16]

19 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Why are you wasting so much time & effort posting on the Isreal thread.

Because I have nothing else that will fill the dark, cold, lonely days of my pitiful existence,

What is your excuse ?