egg Posted October 1 Author Share Posted October 1 Just now, Lighthouse said: Why do you keep trying to put the onus on Israel? There’ll never be peace - period. Nothing they agree to will bring about peace in that region. Heck, even if all nine million of them stood up and walked into the sea, the neighbouring states would be slaughtering each other over who gets control over the vacated land. The crux if the issue is the need for a separate Israel and Palestinian state. Israel refuse that. They also settle the West Bank. They also detain hundreds of Palestinians without charge. Etc etc. Israel need to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 Just now, egg said: The crux if the issue is the need for a separate Israel and Palestinian state. Israel refuse that. They also settle the West Bank. They also detain hundreds of Palestinians without charge. Etc etc. Israel need to change. That's not the crux of the issue for Hezbollah and Hamas. Or Iran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted October 1 Author Share Posted October 1 1 minute ago, hypochondriac said: It's hilarious that you see no difference between Israel and Hezbollah. It's hilarious that think that you know what I think. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 Girls, play nicely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 2 minutes ago, egg said: The crux if the issue is the need for a separate Israel and Palestinian state. Israel refuse that. They also settle the West Bank. They also detain hundreds of Palestinians without charge. Etc etc. Israel need to change. I can only assume this is some sort of wind up, I just don’t understand how you can so consistently ignore what has been said a thousand time. IRAN DO NOT WANT ISRAEL TO EXIST AT ALL PERIOD FULL STOP THE END 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 12 minutes ago, egg said: It's hilarious that think that you know what I think. "what's the difference?" "Israel aren't continually lobbing thousands of rockets at Lebanon in an effort to randomly kill as many Jews as possible." "you can't look at the bigger picture" How is answering the question I was asked anything to do with looking at a bigger picture? I was asked what the difference was between the two groups and responded. Do you think there's a difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Saint Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 Oh well, looks like the Israeli's are leading us all into WW3. Goody. Just what Hamas wanted on October 7th and Netanyahu was stupid enough to facilitate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baird of the land Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 Iran’s response seems pretty mild, considering the current transgression of an unchecked Israel. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 4 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said: Oh well, looks like the Israeli's are leading us all into WW3. Goody. Just what Hamas wanted on October 7th and Netanyahu was stupid enough to facilitate it. How about Iran are going to get seriously fucked? And it isn’t WW3 FFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 2 minutes ago, Baird of the land said: Iran’s response seems pretty mild, considering the current transgression of an unchecked Israel. These were the exact type of people that @whelkwas referring to earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 Just now, hypochondriac said: These were the exact type of people that @whelkwas referring to earlier. Exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Saint Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 6 minutes ago, whelk said: How about Iran are going to get seriously fucked? And it isn’t WW3 FFS It will become it - US backed Israel versus Russian backed Iran. Iran has a much more advanced (and pretty huge) army than people think, and a fuck ton of ballistic missiles. Judging by the videos tonight the Israeli's can't seem to defend particularly effectively against them. Cue huge escalations from both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Saint Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 9 minutes ago, Baird of the land said: Iran’s response seems pretty mild, considering the current transgression of an unchecked Israel. I think it's more that they're bombing military targets, rather than schools, hospitals and refugee camps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 Just now, Farmer Saint said: It will become it - US backed Israel versus Russian backed Iran. Iran has a much more advanced (and pretty huge) army than people think, and a fuck ton of ballistic missiles. Judging by the videos tonight the Israeli's can't seem to defend particularly effectively against them. Cue huge escalations from both sides. Russia are a busted flush. You think US will allow Iran to defeat Israel? I haven’t see the effectiveness but if anyone doubts the resolve of the Israelis they haven’t been paying attention over the last 12 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 1 minute ago, Farmer Saint said: I think it's more that they're bombing military targets, rather than schools, hospitals and refugee camps. Fuck off 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Saint Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 3 minutes ago, whelk said: Russia are a busted flush. You think US will allow Iran to defeat Israel? I haven’t see the effectiveness but if anyone doubts the resolve of the Israelis they haven’t been paying attention over the last 12 months. No, never said that, I said that it's going to be WW3. Israel has a stronger army and more support, but the point is Iran is not Hamas or Hezbollah and will be able to fight back effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Saint Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 4 minutes ago, whelk said: Fuck off Calm yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 Russia and Iran can’t win a war against Ukraine, they’d get an absolute arse-whooping by Israel. That’s not to mention the precarious political situation in Russia following their previous ‘three day special military operation’ and the fact that they have a sizeable chunk of rich, well connected Jews in the upper echelons of their society. I know people love making dramatic statements about WW3 on t’internet but it ain’t happening here. The two sides will launch long range ballistics at each other for a bit, claim a moral victory and go back to political sabre rattling. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted October 1 Author Share Posted October 1 2 hours ago, Lighthouse said: I can only assume this is some sort of wind up, I just don’t understand how you can so consistently ignore what has been said a thousand time. IRAN DO NOT WANT ISRAEL TO EXIST AT ALL PERIOD FULL STOP THE END Calm down poppet, no need to shout. Capitals don't make your point any better. They just highlight your unwillingness to look beyond your opinion. We'll never prevent middle eastern objection to Israel. Israel also don't want Palestine to exist - they don't support 2 states. They steal Palestinian land. It's a 2 sided thing, and a wee bit more nuanced than your simple view. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baird of the land Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 3 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said: I think it's more that they're bombing military targets, rather than schools, hospitals and refugee camps. it is the pointless symbolic proportional response that any state whether it is Iran, Israel or us does. They know the us and Israel will shoot them down but they had to be seen responding to Israel’s invasion. We’ll likely get an equally pointless response from us/israel in time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Saint Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 2 minutes ago, Lighthouse said: Russia and Iran can’t win a war against Ukraine, they’d get an absolute arse-whooping by Israel. That’s not to mention the precarious political situation in Russia following their previous ‘three day special military operation’ and the fact that they have a sizeable chunk of rich, well connected Jews in the upper echelons of their society. I know people love making dramatic statements about WW3 on t’internet but it ain’t happening here. The two sides will launch long range ballistics at each other for a bit, claim a moral victory and go back to political sabre rattling. We'll see I guess. I think Netanyahu is more hell bent on destruction than that. It'll all depend on how much the US wants to back an attack on Iran I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Saint Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 2 minutes ago, Baird of the land said: it is the pointless symbolic proportional response that any state whether it is Iran, Israel or us does. They know the us and Israel will shoot them down but they had to be seen responding to Israel’s invasion. We’ll likely get an equally pointless response from us/israel in time. Didn't shoot them down particularly well mind: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DAlwNfaIEFg/?igsh=eWVsOXJ0bDE5OXNv https://www.instagram.com/reel/DAluogwocsb/?igsh=a25nYm15Ym5vaGsx https://www.instagram.com/reel/DAl0TL6I9pM/?igsh=MXZ3cHhocWp3aWlseQ== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 7 minutes ago, egg said: Calm down poppet, no need to shout. Capitals don't make your point any better. They just highlight your unwillingness to look beyond your opinion. We'll never prevent middle eastern objection to Israel. Israel also don't want Palestine to exist - they don't support 2 states. They steal Palestinian land. It's a 2 sided thing, and a wee bit more nuanced than your simple view. I’m not shouting because I’m angry, I just thought I’d try one last time to get the point through to you (and others) who ignore it. Iran not wanting Israel to exist isn’t my opinion, nor is it simplistic. They don’t, they just don’t. There is no, "yeah but if Israel…" Im not defending anything Israel has done but there’s nothing they CAN do which will lead to peace in that region. With that in mind, there’s no real incentive for them to act peacefully. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 10 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said: Didn't shoot them down particularly well mind: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DAlwNfaIEFg/?igsh=eWVsOXJ0bDE5OXNv https://www.instagram.com/reel/DAluogwocsb/?igsh=a25nYm15Ym5vaGsx https://www.instagram.com/reel/DAl0TL6I9pM/?igsh=MXZ3cHhocWp3aWlseQ== Is that actual missiles hitting the ground, or the shrapnel from missiles having been intercepted and blown up in flight ? We have seen a lot of similar images and impacts from intercepted misiles and drones in Ukraine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted October 1 Author Share Posted October 1 9 minutes ago, badgerx16 said: Is that actual missiles hitting the ground, or the shrapnel from missiles having been intercepted and blown up in flight ? We have seen a lot of similar images and impacts from intercepted misiles and drones in Ukraine. They don't look like missile strikes. Seems like shrapnel. The Israeli defences are seriously impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Saint Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 That's some mighty big explosions from shrapnel - surely the point is if they've been intercepted there is no warhead left to detonate on impact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 10 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said: That's some mighty big explosions from shrapnel - surely the point is if they've been intercepted there is no warhead left to detonate on impact? I'm no rocket scientist, but don't rockets generally have rocket fuel, so whilst the warhead can be disabled, the remaining rocket fuel can / will burn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Saint Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 26 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said: I'm no rocket scientist, but don't rockets generally have rocket fuel, so whilst the warhead can be disabled, the remaining rocket fuel can / will burn? But wouldn't that explode midair as they've been hit? Otherwise aren't you just disabling missiles and creating smaller (but still quite large) but random hitting missiles, possibly over civilian areas? I've got no idea tbh. Also in the first video you can see one taken out mid air (and disappearing) and it doesn't look that different to the ones hitting the ground...the speed and cluster also looks quite targetted in the first and third video, in my completely amateur opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picard Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 9 hours ago, Farmer Saint said: Didn't shoot them down particularly well mind: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DAlwNfaIEFg/?igsh=eWVsOXJ0bDE5OXNv https://www.instagram.com/reel/DAluogwocsb/?igsh=a25nYm15Ym5vaGsx https://www.instagram.com/reel/DAl0TL6I9pM/?igsh=MXZ3cHhocWp3aWlseQ== Israël can quickly calculate the trajectory of each missile and to save ammunition will only intercept those heading for a vulnerable target. Missiles heading for open ground are left to land. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 1 hour ago, Farmer Saint said: That's some mighty big explosions from shrapnel - surely the point is if they've been intercepted there is no warhead left to detonate on impact? The missiles can weigh over 15 tons at launch, allowing for fuel burned in flight there will be a large amount of potential scrap metal coming into Israeli airspace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 21 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said: But wouldn't that explode midair as they've been hit? Otherwise aren't you just disabling missiles and creating smaller (but still quite large) but random hitting missiles, possibly over civilian areas? I've got no idea tbh. Also in the first video you can see one taken out mid air (and disappearing) and it doesn't look that different to the ones hitting the ground...the speed and cluster also looks quite targetted in the first and third video, in my completely amateur opinion. A missile that is intercepted in mid air does not vapourise. The rocket sent to kill it does not impact it directly, it explodes in close proximity and is intended to shred the target - most ground to air anti-aircraft missiles work on the same principle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted October 2 Author Share Posted October 2 9 hours ago, Lighthouse said: I’m not shouting because I’m angry, I just thought I’d try one last time to get the point through to you (and others) who ignore it. Iran not wanting Israel to exist isn’t my opinion, nor is it simplistic. They don’t, they just don’t. There is no, "yeah but if Israel…" Im not defending anything Israel has done but there’s nothing they CAN do which will lead to peace in that region. With that in mind, there’s no real incentive for them to act peacefully. It seems that you shout because you want to block out other views, and regardless yours as the only one that matters. Not a helpful or respectful approach. Nobody can sensibly discuss this issue without looking at all perspectives. Your focus is simply that Iran (and Hamas etc) don't what Israel to exist. We know that. We also know that Israel don't support an independent Palestinian state with it's own land. You either don't seem to accept that, or consider it less important than what you want to shout about. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintsaint Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 1 minute ago, badgerx16 said: A missile that is intercepted in mid air does not vapourise. Nope - if you look on Reddit (I won't post here) there is some unfortunately bloke squashed by rocket debris as it lands in Palestine. Unluckiest bloke going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Saint Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 1 hour ago, Picard said: Israël can quickly calculate the trajectory of each missile and to save ammunition will only intercept those heading for a vulnerable target. Missiles heading for open ground are left to land. That makes more sense than the explosions being shrapnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Saint Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 49 minutes ago, badgerx16 said: The missiles can weigh over 15 tons at launch, allowing for fuel burned in flight there will be a large amount of potential scrap metal coming into Israeli airspace. I think it's more scrap metal versus explosive material that I'm questioning. Of course there will be scrap metal, but that won't cause an explosion on its own, it needs fuel or warhead for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Saint Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 47 minutes ago, badgerx16 said: A missile that is intercepted in mid air does not vapourise. The rocket sent to kill it does not impact it directly, it explodes in close proximity and is intended to shred the target - most ground to air anti-aircraft missiles work on the same principle. OK, so that is probably not a good idea to use over populated areas that are close to military targets then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 1 hour ago, egg said: It seems that you shout because you want to block out other views, and regardless yours as the only one that matters. Not a helpful or respectful approach. Nobody can sensibly discuss this issue without looking at all perspectives. Your focus is simply that Iran (and Hamas etc) don't what Israel to exist. We know that. We also know that Israel don't support an independent Palestinian state with it's own land. You either don't seem to accept that, or consider it less important than what you want to shout about. It's totally irrelevant to Lighthouse's point which is that there is nothing that Israel can do that would change Iran. In a hypothetical scenario where Israel did everything you wanted it to do, Iran's stance would not change, it would still see the existence of Israel as an abomination and it would still be looking to destroy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 (edited) 12 hours ago, Farmer Saint said: Oh well, looks like the Israeli's are leading us all into WW3. Goody. Just what Hamas wanted on October 7th and Netanyahu was stupid enough to facilitate it. Not sure I agree. Israeli attack on Iranian nuclear sites is now inevitable but the last couple of days / weeks have shown that their technological superiority is huge and decisive. Iran has ended up looking weak and stupid. They will be working flat out to weaponise their nukes as they no longer have Hamas or Hezbollah posing any serious threat. It's all they have left but Isreal will probably destroy it all in one evening. What happens then? Unless a major power steps in to help Iran then probably not a lot. There are no other countries in the region that would mourn the emasculation of Iran, with the possible exception of Asad in Syria. There will likely be some small flare ups in response in Iraq, Bahrain, maybe Kuwait, some unrest in Turkey, maybe, some simple minded marches in London, Paris and so on, probably a few terrorist attacks, potentially in escalation in Yemen, but I don't see it escalating into a wider war. Edited October 2 by benjii 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 2 hours ago, Farmer Saint said: OK, so that is probably not a good idea to use over populated areas that are close to military targets then. Better to trash it in mid-air than let it impact and explode the payload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 13 hours ago, Farmer Saint said: Judging by the videos tonight the Israeli's can't seem to defend particularly effectively against them Are you for real? Nearly 200 missiles launched & one random bloke in Gaza copped it. Reminds me of the Peter Sellers film, “the mouse that roared” . The Iranians know full well they’ve absolutely no chance of causing major casualties, they’re just trying to provoke an over reaction from Isreal.The upshot is innocent Iranians will die but that won’t bother the people who hate Isreal, the more the merrier as far as they’re concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted October 2 Author Share Posted October 2 1 hour ago, benjii said: Not sure I agree. Israeli attack on Iranian nuclear sites is now inevitable but the last couple of days / weeks have shown that their technological superiority is huge and decisive. Iran has ended up looking weak and stupid. They will be working flat out to weaponise their nukes as they no longer have Hamas or Hezbollah posing any serious threat. It's all they have left but Isreal will probably destroy it all in one evening. What happens then? Unless a major power steps in to help Iran then probably not a lot. There are no other countries in the region that would mourn the emasculation of Iran, with the possible exception of Asad in Syria. There will likely be some small flare ups in response in Iraq, Bahrain, maybe Kuwait, some unrest in Turkey, maybe, some simple minded marches in London, Paris and so on, probably a few terrorist attacks, potentially in escalation in Yemen, but I don't see it escalating into a wider war. Absolutely this. Iran showed their hand and it wasn't enough to do any harm. It's backfired, and that's before the reprisals. The talk of a wider war is nonsense. There is nobody else to get involved in all reality. Israel will do some serious harm to Iran's threat in the near future. That'll leave them to jockey for position on regional superiototy with the Saudis, but that'll not lead to conflict. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Saint Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 43 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said: Are you for real? Nearly 200 missiles launched & one random bloke in Gaza copped it. Reminds me of the Peter Sellers film, “the mouse that roared” . The Iranians know full well they’ve absolutely no chance of causing major casualties, they’re just trying to provoke an over reaction from Isreal.The upshot is innocent Iranians will die but that won’t bother the people who hate Isreal, the more the merrier as far as they’re concerned. Perhaps the lack of deaths was due to the Iranians looking to bomb military fixtures rather than Israel's tactics of bombing innocent civilians? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 31 minutes ago, egg said: Absolutely this. Iran showed their hand and it wasn't enough to do any harm. It's backfired, and that's before the reprisals. The talk of a wider war is nonsense. There is nobody else to get involved in all reality. Israel will do some serious harm to Iran's threat in the near future. That'll leave them to jockey for position on regional superiototy with the Saudis, but that'll not lead to conflict. Sounds like the best of some bad options to me if it plays out like that. Iran hobbled would be great. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmes_and_Watson Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 Other than hoping Israel would over react, as Egg said, from either the act and/or some Iron Dome failure, that was Iran's response. That's twice they've done it, forced to move out from behind proxies to show support to groups it funds and as statements of defence. Both have been measured, couched in non escalation terms and at the lower end of their capabilities. Iran will look to continue their own defence, support Hezbollah, what's left of Hamas and support other groups/allies to gain influence and undermine Israel's attempts to reach agreements with other middle eastern nations. Israel are now involved in multi front conflicts, none of which offer easy long term resolutions, and dividing international support. It's not in Iran's interests to directly escalate, if they can divert through other fronts. Israel may find itself constantly caught in dealing with acts beyond some Lebanese buffer zone, whatever Palestinian resolution is in place, increased Iranian capabilities, and increased tension as they return to seeking middle eastern alliances. A recurring nightmare, but one that avoids escalation. At least for now. How Israel deal with the source of their issues, in Iran, will be key. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 40 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said: Perhaps the lack of deaths was due to the Iranians looking to bomb military fixtures rather than Israel's tactics of bombing innocent civilians? Iranian long range ballistic missiles are thought to have an accuracy radius of three quarters of a mile - that means that 50% will land within 1200 yards of the aiming point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Saint Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 Just now, badgerx16 said: Iranian long range ballistic missiles are thought to have an accuracy radius of three quarters of a mile - that means that 50% will land within 1200 yards of the aiming point. Points to them looking at military installations then as otherwise we'd have seen some casualties for the missiles that weren't caught by Arrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said: Points to them looking at military installations then as otherwise we'd have seen some casualties for the missiles that weren't caught by Arrow. No, they launched the missiles knowing that Iron Dome and other defences would deal with most of them. Aiming was probably nothing more than pointing them West. It was a PR exercise for local consumption. Interesting to note that the RAF and US forces were also involved in intercepting the missiles. Edited October 2 by badgerx16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 4 minutes ago, badgerx16 said: Interesting to note that the RAF and US forces were also involved in intercepting the missiles. Must be staggering to those wanting an ‘unchecked’ Israel neutered that the UK govt is supporting the bad guys. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Saint Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 5 minutes ago, badgerx16 said: No, they launched the missiles knowing that Iron Dome and other defences would deal with most of them. Aiming was probably nothing more than pointing them West. It was a PR exercise for local consumption. Interesting to note that the RAF and US forces were also involved in intercepting the missiles. But the point is "most". If they'd have fired them at the centre of Tel Aviv and the Israeli defences had missed them then we'd be looking at far different escalations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 7 minutes ago, badgerx16 said: It was a PR exercise for local consumption. They might’ve been smarter to anticipate the Israeli retribution than worry about their PR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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