Israel

[hypochondriac]

Brilliant. Celebrations in Syria at the death of hated terrorist scum. Great to see. 

https://x.com/mishtal/status/1839784847633518889?t=Qo_y64K9-Fx1_3UDwG_Wbg&s=19

[badgerx16]

Pure whataboutery, but I didn't see this 6 year old girl's image on Israel's hit list;

 

[hypochondriac]

7 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Pure whataboutery, but I didn't see this 6 year old girl's image on Israel's hit list;

 

Yeah war sucks doesn't it and terrible things happen during wars. I really wish the evil terrorists hadn't started this and continue to pose a threat to Israel. What bastards they are. 

[badgerx16]

11 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Yeah war sucks doesn't it and terrible things happen during wars. I really wish the evil terrorists hadn't started this and continue to pose a threat to Israel. What bastards they are. 

I agree, but Israel could cut the guff about using "smart" weapons in 'targetted strikes', and doing their utmost to minimise collateral casualties. There is no such thing as a "smart" bunker buster. Juust be honest, they want to hit their targets, and nothing is going to get in their way.

Edited 30 September, 2024 by badgerx16

[hypochondriac]

7 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

I agree, but Israel could cut the guff about using "smart" weapons in 'targetted strikes', and doing their utmost to minimise collateral casualties. Just be honest, they want to hit their targets, and nothing is going to get in their way.

As I understand it there has been some efforts to minimise casualties but it's a balance isn't it. You can't pre-notify everyone of every strike you intend to make or they would be pointless. It seems that only Israel are held to this unrealistic standard. I won't see similar levels of outrage should any Lebanese rocket attacks kill or maim young Israelis (and let's not forget, if rocket attacks supported by Iran were not occurring then these retaliations from Israel would almost certainly not be happening.)

Edited 30 September, 2024 by hypochondriac

[Gloucester Saint]

Ground invasion being telegraphed by the Isrealis https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c981g8mrl8lt

Part of me really enjoys seeing Iran get a bloody nose, the IRG is vile, but this phase could get protracted.

Edited 30 September, 2024 by Gloucester Saint
of

[badgerx16]

4 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Ground invasion being telegraphed by the Isrealis https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c981g8mrl8lt

Part of me really enjoys seeing Iran get a bloody nose, the IRG is vile, but this phase could get protracted.

Invading Southern Lebanon is far trickier than steaming through Gaza.

[hypochondriac]

28 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Invading Southern Lebanon is far trickier than steaming through Gaza.

Hopefully just create a buffer zone so the Israelis have more chance of being left alone. 

[egg]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Hopefully just create a buffer zone so the Israelis have more chance of being left alone. 

Israel will want more than that I'd guess. Buffer zone, an ongoing presence, and. control of the airport (assuming they don't do what they do what they did to the Gaza airport). 

[hypochondriac]

15 minutes ago, egg said:

Israel will want more than that I'd guess. Buffer zone, an ongoing presence, and. control of the airport (assuming they don't do what they do what they did to the Gaza airport). 

Anything reasonable that increases their chances of not getting rockets fired at them is a good thing. An ongoing presence is entirely reasonable. I can't comment on the airport as I don't know enough about it. 

[egg]

9 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

I agree, but Israel could cut the guff about using "smart" weapons in 'targetted strikes', and doing their utmost to minimise collateral casualties. There is no such thing as a "smart" bunker buster. Juust be honest, they want to hit their targets, and nothing is going to get in their way.

Yep. There's been no effort to minimise casualties. They've routinely taken out scores of people to attempt to get one target. At worst the collateral deaths are in fact intentional. At best they don't give a monkeys who gets in the way. 

[egg]

3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Anything reasonable that increases their chances of not getting rockets fired at them is a good thing. An ongoing presence is entirely reasonable. I can't comment on the airport as I don't know enough about it. 

I think that's why they may have eyes in the airport. If they want to stop the inward flow of weapons into Lebanon you'd imagine that the airport is something they'd either want to shutdown or control. 

[whelk]

So Iran getting properly involved. Guess a few here will be backing them over evil Israel?

[hypochondriac]

10 minutes ago, whelk said:

So Iran getting properly involved. Guess a few here will be backing them over evil Israel?

Evil Israel provoking the innocent Iranians. 

[whelk]

8 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Evil Israel provoking the innocent Iranians. 

Can just imagine SOG responding to his missus asking who do we support here?

[Sheaf Saint]

10 minutes ago, whelk said:

So Iran getting properly involved. Guess a few here will be backing them over evil Israel?

I get why you've posted such an obtuse comment, but all you're really doing is demonstrating that you have never fully taken on board the comments from posters who have tried to point out that the state of Israel is not the holier-than-thou, innocent victim their government wants the world to believe it is.

This missile attack from Iran was inevitable the moment Israel launched its ground assault in Lebanon. Both sides will claim they are only retaliating or acting in self defence, and neither can actually claim the moral high ground. 

[egg]

19 minutes ago, whelk said:

So Iran getting properly involved. Guess a few here will be backing them over evil Israel?

It'll backfire. Iron Dome will knock the missiles out like they did last time, then Israel will respond and nullify them like they did with Egypt, Syria etc years ago. If Israel take out the Iranian nuclear infrastructure that's the Iranian threat all but dead and buried. I'm not sure what Iran hope to achieve from this. 

[whelk]

7 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

I get why you've posted such an obtuse comment, but all you're really doing is demonstrating that you have never fully taken on board the comments from posters who have tried to point out that the state of Israel is not the holier-than-thou, innocent victim their government wants the world to believe it is.

This missile attack from Iran was inevitable the moment Israel launched its ground assault in Lebanon. Both sides will claim they are only retaliating or acting in self defence, and neither can actually claim the moral high ground. 

I don’t think you can claim what I have ‘taken on board’. There are plenty who want anyone but ‘the Jews’ to win, although not necessarily posters on here.  
Iran are evil so pretty obvious to me but guess you haven’t taken on board those supporting Israel aren’t condoning Netanyahu and his government’s behaviour and in no way consider them holier than thou

Edited 1 October, 2024 by whelk

[hypochondriac]

17 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

I get why you've posted such an obtuse comment, but all you're really doing is demonstrating that you have never fully taken on board the comments from posters who have tried to point out that the state of Israel is not the holier-than-thou, innocent victim their government wants the world to believe it is.

This missile attack from Iran was inevitable the moment Israel launched its ground assault in Lebanon. Both sides will claim they are only retaliating or acting in self defence, and neither can actually claim the moral high ground. 

Why have Israel launched a ground assault in Lebanon?

[hypochondriac]

11 minutes ago, whelk said:

I don’t think you can claim what I have ‘taken on board’. There are plenty who want anyone but ‘the Jews’ to win, although not necessarily posters on here.  
Iran are evil so pretty obvious to me but guess you haven’t taken on board those supporting Israel aren’t condoning Netanyahu and his government’s behaviour and in no way consider them holier than thou

100%.

[Sheaf Saint]

5 minutes ago, whelk said:

I don’t think you can claim what I have ‘taken on board’. There are plenty who want anyone but ‘the Jews’ to win, although not necessarily posters on here.  
Iran are evil so pretty obvious to me but guess you haven’t taken on board those supporting Israel aren’t condoning Netanyahu and his government’s behaviour and in no way consider them holier than thou

Sorry but when you said "Guess a few here will be backing them over evil Israel?", I assumed you meant here on this forum and were being deliberately provocative towards certain people who have continually disagreed with you on this thread.

Simply dismissing Iran as 'evil' does kinda suggest that you have a very black and white view of the situation though. 

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Sorry but when you said "Guess a few here will be backing them over evil Israel?", I assumed you meant here on this forum and were being deliberately provocative towards certain people who have continually disagreed with you on this thread.

Simply dismissing Iran as 'evil' does kinda suggest that you have a very black and white view of the situation though. 

I think it's fairly uncontroversial to say the Iranian regime are pretty much the definition of evil. 

[egg]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Why have Israel launched a ground assault in Lebanon?

Why were Hezbollah firing on Israel?

We can keep peeling back the layers all day, and we'll all stop where it suits us to. 

[egg]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

I think it's fairly uncontroversial to say the Iranian regime are pretty much the definition of evil. 

Whereas the Israeli treatment of Palestinians has been all cuddles and kisses. 

[Lighthouse]

Flightradar24 is looking interesting over Eastern Turkey again.

[egg]

1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

Flightradar24 is looking interesting over Eastern Turkey again.

What's it showing?

[Sheaf Saint]

4 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Why have Israel launched a ground assault in Lebanon?

I see no purpose in getting drawn into another pointless chicken and egg argument. Cos it's been done to death previously on this thread and nobody ever seems to be willing to make any concessions.

Like I said, both 'sides' will claim they have righteous justification for their actions, but the truth is that all parties are guilty of past atrocities that have fuelled the perpetual state of conflict in the region.

[Lighthouse]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

What's it showing?

Everything that would normally route south through Iraq and Iran is scattering and diverting.

[egg]

Just now, Lighthouse said:

Everything that would normally route south through Iraq and Iran is scattering and diverting.

Gotcha, cheers. 

[benjii]

On 25/09/2024 at 21:40, benjii said:

Quite.

The short term aim for Israel is to keep escalating until they have an excuse to bomb Iran's nuclear facilities.

The long term aim is to force all non-Israelis out of Gaza and the West Bank, but that will just move their current issues to a different border.

There was a chance to create a two state solution a few decades ago but it's fucked now and will always be, I think.

Eliminating Hezbollah, crushing Hamas, in the way they have been, just creates a new group in Iraq, in Yemen, in Jordan, in Kuwait, in Syria etc.

In hindsight, "Israel" should have been put in Nebraska or somewhere like that.

Like I said....

Israeli attacks on strategic Iranian sites coming your way soon.

[whelk]

7 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Sorry but when you said "Guess a few here will be backing them over evil Israel?", I assumed you meant here on this forum and were being deliberately provocative towards certain people who have continually disagreed with you on this thread.

Simply dismissing Iran as 'evil' does kinda suggest that you have a very black and white view of the situation though. 

By and large I can understand where most posters are and understand the concern most have for innocents getting caught up. But yes I am black and white and have been from the start of this conflict. Hamas are evil cunts and having in your charter/doctrine (as do Hezbollah) that you want to wipe Israel from existence doesn’t lead to a constructive peace process. 7th October shook off any restraint Israel might’ve had and I totally understand why. Some think the brutality is equivalence to past Israeli oppression but nothing of the sort. These evil cunts shouting Allu Akbar whilst filming sadistically killing innocents plumbs the depths of humanity and in the name of evil Islam. And let’s not forget the short lived celebrations in the streets of Gaza. 
 

And yes Iran are clearly a very evil regime which they demonstrate daily in oppressing its citizens. Do you have a black and white view of Russia v Ukraine?

[egg]

3 minutes ago, benjii said:

Like I said....

Israeli attacks on strategic Iranian sites coming your way soon.

Indeed - it'll backfire. All this has done is show that Iran can't get past iron dome, and his given Israel a reason to smash Iran. 

People keep talking about a wider regional war, but with Iran looking a bit shit, I'm not sure who else people think are getting involved. It looks like Israel are at match point here. 

[whelk]

1 minute ago, egg said:

Indeed - it'll backfire. All this has done is show that Iran can't get past iron dome, and his given Israel a reason to smash Iran. 

People keep talking about a wider regional war, but with Iran looking a bit shit, I'm not sure who else people think are getting involved. It looks like Israel are at match point here. 

Aye the Saudis will be loving it. 

[Weston Super Saint]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

Indeed - it'll backfire. All this has done is show that Iran can't get past iron dome, and his given Israel a reason to smash Iran. 

People keep talking about a wider regional war, but with Iran looking a bit shit, I'm not sure who else people think are getting involved. It looks like Israel are at match point here. 

Some equating it to a proxy war between the US and Russia....

[Gloucester Saint]

8 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Some equating it to a proxy war between the US and Russia....

More of Iran’s focus switching to defending against Israel doesn’t help Putin in the slightest because 🇮🇷 has been arming Russia’s campaign in Ukraine of late. Added to the fact China won’t openly arm them and are fed up with the Ukraine war, Vladimir looks fucked. And a lessening chance of his puppet Donald returning to bail him out and weaken NATO.

I hate what Israel did in Gaza but on this occasion it might benefit Ukraine and NATO alliance by bringing about a much-needed clear out at the top in Russia and Iran, although much harder to see the Iranian people being able to topple the IRG. Unless the Saudis arm the opposition to finish them off. 

Edited 1 October, 2024 by Gloucester Saint

[hypochondriac]

25 minutes ago, egg said:

Why were Hezbollah firing on Israel?

We can keep peeling back the layers all day, and we'll all stop where it suits us to. 

Because they are religious fundamentalist who despise Jews and use their interpretation of their religion as justification for wiping Jews off the face of the earth given the opportunity. 

[hypochondriac]

12 minutes ago, egg said:

Indeed - it'll backfire. All this has done is show that Iran can't get past iron dome, and his given Israel a reason to smash Iran. 

People keep talking about a wider regional war, but with Iran looking a bit shit, I'm not sure who else people think are getting involved. It looks like Israel are at match point here. 

Let's hope so. Fatally crippling Iran would remove a lot of the issues in the region. 

[egg]

3 minutes ago, whelk said:

Aye the Saudis will be loving it. 

 

3 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Some equating it to a proxy war between the US and Russia....

I can't see Saudi getting involved in direct conflict with Iran. 

Syrian involvement will make it interesting and to some extent a proxy war. 

Personally I don't see things escalating with other states - Israel can look after themselves with US support behind the scenes. 

[egg]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

Let's hope so. Fatally crippling Iran would remove a lot of the issues in the region. 

In part, yes, but theres a hell of a lot more to it than that. Whatever happens with Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas, the Houthis, etc, there'll never be peace if Israel won't agree to 2 states and behave better. 

[hypochondriac]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

In part, yes, but theres a hell of a lot more to it than that. Whatever happens with Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas, the Houthis, etc, there'll never be peace if Israel won't agree to 2 states and behave better. 

There's not going to be peace in our lifetimes. Removing Iran's capabilities to wage proxy wars will at least remove a significant part of the aggression. 

[Sheaf Saint]

9 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Because they are religious fundamentalist who despise Jews and use their interpretation of their religion as justification for wiping Jews off the face of the earth given the opportunity. 

That may well be true. But it takes two to tango as you well know. There are also plenty of religious fundamentalists in Israel, with a fervent belief in the ancient scriptures telling of God promising the land to Abraham and his children, who don't recognise the Palestinian people's right to exist either. 

How is that any different?

[Sheaf Saint]

3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

There's not going to be peace in our lifetimes. 

Now on this we are in full agreement, sadly.

3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Removing Iran's capabilities to wage proxy wars will at least remove a significant part of the aggression. 

Perhaps. But there's also the danger it could just result in a power vacuum, and recent history in Iraq and Libya suggests that won't improve matters for anyone.

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

That may well be true. But it takes two to tango as you well know. There are also plenty of religious fundamentalists in Israel, with a fervent belief in the ancient scriptures telling of God promising the land to Abraham and his children, who don't recognise the Palestinian people's right to exist either. 

How is that any different?

Because Israel aren't continually lobbing thousands of rockets at Lebanon in an effort to randomly kill as many Jews as possible. 

Edited 1 October, 2024 by hypochondriac

[Lighthouse]

11 minutes ago, egg said:

In part, yes, but theres a hell of a lot more to it than that. Whatever happens with Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas, the Houthis, etc, there'll never be peace if Israel won't agree to 2 states and behave better. 

Why do you keep trying to put the onus on Israel? There’ll never be peace - period. Nothing they agree to will bring about peace in that region. Heck, even if all nine million of them stood up and walked into the sea, the neighbouring states would be slaughtering each other over who gets control over the vacated land.

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Now on this we are in full agreement, sadly.

Perhaps. But there's also the danger it could just result in a power vacuum, and recent history in Iraq and Libya suggests that won't improve matters for anyone.

Could do. One thing for sure is that the current Iranian regime are terrible and subjugate their people. The risk for something worse to come along afterwards wouldn't be a reason to not celebrate the toppling of their regime - particularly because it might not happen. 

[egg]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Because Israel aren't continually lobbing thousands of rockets at Lebanon in an effort to randomly kill as many Jews as possible. 

Your inability to look at the bigger picture makes discussion with you pointless. 

[Lighthouse]

3 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Now on this we are in full agreement, sadly.

Perhaps. But there's also the danger it could just result in a power vacuum, and recent history in Iraq and Libya suggests that won't improve matters for anyone.

It’ll improve matters for Israel, that’s why they’re doing it. When was the last time Iraq, Libya or anyone in Syria attacked Israel? 

[hypochondriac]

Just now, Lighthouse said:

Why do you keep trying to put the onus on Israel? There’ll never be peace - period. Nothing they agree to will bring about peace in that region. Heck, even if all nine million of them stood up and walked into the sea, the neighbouring states would be slaughtering each other over who gets control over the vacated land.

Exactly. It simply comes back to what was articulated months ago on this thread. There is not a negotiating position acceptable to Islamic fundamentalists who object to your existence. What Israel agree or disagree with is irrelevant to these people - they will want them dead and removed regardless. 

[Sheaf Saint]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Because Israel aren't continually lobbing thousands of rockets at Lebanon in an effort to randomly kill as many Jews as possible. 

No, they have a more subtle approach of gradual ethnic cleansing in the West Bank and Gaza instead. 

Same underlying principle - same end result. People killed / displaced in the name of religious fundamentalism, and new generations of hate-filled extremists created.

Like you say, there won't be peace in our lifetimes, if ever.

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

Your inability to look at the bigger picture makes discussion with you pointless. 

It's hilarious that you see no difference between Israel and Hezbollah.